Platinum Fox

Yes, you're right this drama is about love and its many forms, but to state that only LBY and SS shared romantic love is simplifying the definition of romantic love to its physical aspects. Something that LY and SS were unable to develop fully because of an outside force. Yet, the two shared romantic scenes together as he pursued her. Unlike with LBY and Yuan (who have the flashbacks), Lou Yao and SS have no regrets about their love affair and parting.

Thanks for the discussion. Happy pondering.

Isn't protecting someone, love? Isn't that what LBY does for SS, and everybody says that, that is love? You have defined what love means for you. Love to you means the physical aspect of love and there is nothing wrong with that. Many people agree with you. I, however, look at her relationship with Lou Yao and see something different. She loves him very deeply, but she is not ready for the physical aspect of love yet. The fact that she can let him go for the greater good shows that she can think outside of herself. Something that she was not able to do at the beginning.

For me, the reason why there are no flashbacks with Lou Yao is because her love for him is on going and there is no regret on her or his part. There just will not be any physical aspects of love between them which is what the audience wants to see. Enter LBY who the audience wants to see her with, but does LBY love her? Or is he merely attracted to her actions. He represents ethos in the art of persuasion. Whereas LY represents pathos. Yuan represents logos. Love is not logical which is why he will never have SS.

In Asian dramas I have realized that it is all or nothing when it comes to love. The writers are challenging this belief. Can you love more than one person?

Foolship, the writers challenge many tropes in this drama. The idea of what is love is one of them. Only you can decide if they were in love. The rest of us can only give you our opinion.

I disagree. LY and SS at this point in time have a great deal in common because of their age. SS is 15 and LY is probably 17/18 maybe. They are both impulsive. Emotions drive their actions. Both feel oppressed and unloved at home. They share the same goal. Neither one really understands what love is because neither has experienced it. They come up with their own definition. They understand each other. Romantic love could be just wanting to be near each other, talking with each other, giving gifts to each other, feeding each other, etc. This type of love is a powerful thing. It made SS feel safe and secure. Shouldn't your lover be your best friend? By the end of the engagement they were holding hands. Meaning they would soon be ready to move on to the next level of romantic love. At the end of the engagement, there are no flashbacks, why? Is this to say that this is true love or not love at all? Just my opinion. Also, in the suitor realm, LY represents pathos. He is able to get SS to marry him through an emotional appeal. Her fear of not having enough food. What is he good at, finding food!

Glad you and others enjoyed it. I just could not get into it.

Depends on your definition of love. If you go by what SS and LY decide their definition of love is, then, yes. Most commenters say no. They say it lacked the romantic kind of love. I disagree.

Lou Ben died before any of his family could be implicated. However, the Lou family does not escape punishment. Because Tutor Lou didn't promote the second house, he was stripped of his titles and banished to his home county to live as a commoner. Tutor Lou's wife and daughter are sent back to her family. Later we find out the parents get killed by Lou Ben's wife. To make up for the grievance done to the second family and with a recommendation from Shao Shang, Lou Yao is appointed assistant magistrate to Hua County.

The writers are challenging the societal belief that what the patriarch/matriarch does should not affect the family (Peng Kun) unless the entire family believes that way. Also do you really think the emperor would have killed the Cheng family without all the facts? This is why they are taken in for questioning. It is only the general, whose niece was punished for what she did to Shao Shang, who wanted to kill the Cheng family as an act of revenge.

There is a lot of social commentary going on in this drama. The writers challenge many of the age old tropes and societal beliefs. This is why LBY wants to die after he kills Ling Yi, he doesn't want his crime to affect the Cheng family.

The only new thing that I found in this drama is the use of the fingerprint to identify the villain and even then it was lack luster as the man had smashed his hand and couldn't give one. Otherwise, every crime scene before was done elsewhere the selling of illegal salt, villain wants power to take revenge for his home being invaded, ritual killings, etc. Sorry, just don't get excited about this any more as every drama is like this. I am trying Ripe Town next. It has the same premise, but without the "beauty" aspect in it. If you like JJY, she was very good in A Class of Her Own which also has her investigating her own background.

There is no need for a personal attack. I am just disagreeing with you and asking you to back up your claim with evidence from the story. You criticize the story based on what you want in a story. This story was not what you were looking for, again no harm in that. However, the story itself is very well written and put together, especially the first 27 episodes.

You wanted a simple love story. No harm in that. This drama is not it. It fact it challenges that very notion. Love is not something simple. Love is not something that happens upon first sight. Love is not something that happens at a twirl. Love is not something that happens just because somebody rescues you. If you condense this story down to even half, what scenes would you take out to do that and convey the other themes the writers wanted to get across?

Fillers are things like back stories that do not enhance the plot in any way. It would be adding the grandmother's story, the mother's story, the father's story. We know their history through dialogue. It does not need to be shown. The writers have concentrated on the lives of the main leads Shao Shang and Ling Bu Yi. There are no fillers.

These are all about the same thing. A female coroner who goes out and solves cases with a higher authority. They finally came up with a script that could have added something to the genre, but instead they chose to perpetuate the same mentality. This is just my opinion. I do not write reviews, so your numbers will be high, but they should not be in my opinion.

To condense something means to cut or abridge it. The screenwriters are trying to convey messages that pertain to the home life as well as at the national level. The structure of the piece is that of a mirror. The home life reflects that of the nation. They are also playing with the tropes of genre (love at first sight, love at the twirl, love because I rescued you, etc.). I could go on. Are there parts that could be reworked yes, I can think of several. But the scenes in the first 27 episodes need to be there to set up for the second season when her decisions and choices do affect something at the national level. No scene is there as a filler. All scenes move the story along, clarify something, or provide more information that we don't get from the main characters.

You do not have to like the drama. I probably do not like some that you do. It's okay. I am just explaining that if you make the changes that you want, the story would not be the same or convey what the writers are trying to get across. It would not be balanced.

After rereading your post I would like to add to my original post. I get your point. However, if our male lead loves the female lead despite her scar, he has already proven that her looks don't matter. Why does he need to be "tested" again with a female who is "beautiful" on the outside, but "ugly" on the inside? Her friends accepted her no matter what she looked like. However, our male lead must prove over and over again his love for her despite her looks. He's already done that. The only reason SGZ was in the script was to give our heroine a "beautiful" face to go with her "beautiful" soul. Again, perpetuating the notion that beauty means flawless skin. Now our heroine is complete she is "beautiful" inside and out.

Have you seen Miss Truth, Imperial Coroner, Under the Power?

If you cut out what you said to cut out then it would be a totally different drama and would not have conveyed the messages and themes the screenwriters wanted to get across. It also would destroy the structure of the story (the mirror image). Sorry to say, but everything and everyone needs to be in the drama. Think ethos, pathos, logos.

I get your point and that is a start. It is the only redeemable thing about this drama. Otherwise, it was a story full of cliches and done to death plot lines. Again, if they would have stuck with the original character (despite who played the part) and allowed her to investigate her parents death the way she was, it could have been a better story.

I disagree and here is why. Yang Cai Wei had a scar on her face. She is considered "ugly" because of it and is an outcast from society. She literally lives at a place where no one would care what her face looks like (The Coffin House). Her job is that of an undertaker. She purchases items only at the Ghost Market, a place where nobles can't come as it is a place for peasants and outcasts of society. Fortunately, after the kind of life she has led, she has a kind heart and supportive friends. She has a "beautiful" inside. Pan Yue, her childhood friend, loves her despite the flower-shaped scar on her face. Yeah!

If they would have stopped there it would have been great. Once she married Pan Yue, her status in life would have changed. She could have gone anywhere she pleased. Who would have dared to make fun of her? There was no need to bring in the jealous "beautiful" girl, Shang Guan Zhi. The only reason SGZ is there is to give the heroine YCW a "beautiful" outside to match her "beautiful" inside with the face swap. Notice the "ugly" Yang Cai Wei with the "ugly" personality dies within the first two episodes. Hence we are left with the "beautiful" outside of Shang Guan Zhi and the "beautiful" inside of Yang Cai Wei. Pan Yue now has a "beautiful" girl on the inside and the outside. But the biggest question is why did YCW need a "beautiful" face to investigate her parents death?

The biggest need for this change was so YCW could join the dance troop to investigate the case inside the palace. The princess could not do it because she is too well known. The girl who was to do it was tossed out because of the flaws on her face. Enter YCW with SGZ's flawless, "beautiful" face. From that moment on, they are able to crack the case wide open and find out who the real culprit is and bring him down.

As for who played the part, I do not care. I only cared about what message is being sent. Mindsets can be changed if people stop watching and giving high ratings to dramas that perpetuate this mindset.

Not a problem. I love having discussions as well. It is how we learn. Thank you for the discussion as well.

Mika, I am glad there are fans of this novel out there. However, I don't intend to read it. Just as I imagine you will not read The End of Eternity. I admire the production team and cast, especially Chen Zhe Yuan, of Hidden Love for their courage and wish them well. I thank you for your comments and research on the topic. You have helped clarify a few things for me which were bothering me.

I know that I will never be able to persuade you to think differently, and that is okay. However, you must be a little curious about this topic since you did all this research. Don't just accept things at face value. There is more to this story than meets the eye. Hollywood has been using movies and television to promote social change since its conception. They do it discreetly. If you can't change a law, change people's mindset about the law.

My suggestion to you is this, now that you know all of this about the consent and marriage laws of China, go back and watch it again under a different mindset. Just because it is legal doesn't make it right. Pay attention to when and what the characters say and do. Pay attention to the pictures she draws. This tells you a lot about what she is thinking. Pay attention to what he is hiding. Romance is not always about sex. That is why some people have called this a grooming drama. That is the cost of doing this type of drama.

Mika, thank you for the run down on Chinese law. The novel Hidden Love and the drama Hidden Love are two very different works of art. The novel Hidden Love seems to be a simple love story about a boy who meets a girl when she is 13 and he is 20. There is a problem with this age gap according to the Chinese consent law. Once she turns 14, she and he would be free to carry on a sexual relationship. The boy didn't like the girl in that way, thus creating the unrequited love story. I don't know what she does to manipulate him to get him to love her, but she does and they live happily ever after, end of story. My response to this type of love story is who cares? Been there, read that.

Now, the drama is very different. The writers must create something that will make it past the censors, but still convey the message the writers want to get across. Zhao Lu Si always plays a character who goes against societal norms. Why would she play this part? At first, I thought it was just to challenge the age old belief that the sins of the father must implicate the family. I wrote it off as a simple love story. But it bothered me why they would have her speak like a kid and act like a kid until she turns 22. Other commenters have noticed this as well. It is because of what you have told me about Chinese consent and marriage laws. The writers are challenging those laws, but also asking what is the magical age that girls become women and can make their own decisions about sex. In the past it was 15 whether they were ready for it or not. Television is a very powerful medium to get this point across.

The novel The End of Eternity (TEE) does not have any relevance to the novel Hidden Love except at the end, but it has everything to do with the drama. From the reason why Sang Zhi acts and speaks the way she does (even the brother comments on how she speaks), the age gap of the characters, to why the parents act the way they do. You really need to read TEE.

As for your final comment about DJX and her at 17. If you go by Chinese consent law, there would be nothing wrong with DJX at 22 having a romantic relationship with SZ when she is 17. I'm sure she would have consented. However, is it morally right for him to do so? The audience, friends, and family have all said, "No". She is not ready for this type of relationship. DJX tells his friends at the bar in episode 23 that he had a crush on her when she was 17. He was just too embarrassed to admit it and called her his sister because this is the safe choice. It is why they call him a dog during college. However, he does start courting her when she is 17 under the guise of being her tutor and brother. This is the safe choice. Other people might call it grooming. You even commented on this down below. Our perceptions of childhood have changed over the years. Why? TEE answers that question.

Happy pondering. This drama is more than just a simple love story. It asks the audience at what age is it morally right for a girl to start her sexual journey and with whom should she start it with? If DJX had been 14 and 17 at the same time as her would we have the same reactions. It is only because of the age gap that we have the reactions we do.