Platinum Fox

Thank you for clarifying for people what pedophilia and ephebophilia actually are. This drama is neither. It is a well written social commentary on the age of consent law in China. The age of consent is 14 with no restrictions meaning 14 year olds are able to consent to sex with anyone 14 and above. The people of China are trying to get the age of consent changed to 16 with no luck. If you can't change the law, change the mindset of the people about the law. Great social commentaries do not come right and say something is wrong or right. They let viewers decide for themselves.

How does it do this? Within the first five minutes of the drama, the main female lead (Sang Zhi) says, "Time has its own magic drawing us closer in height and distance (maturity level)". The drama is divided into three time frames. The first is when Sang Zhi is 14 and the male lead (DJX) is 19. At this time, Sang Zhi develops a crush on DJX because he does something for her that they keep secret from her parents and brother. Also, Sang Zhi is played by an actress who is 11 at the time of filming, but it is because Sang Zhi was sickly as a child and didn't develop normally. There are also other reasons for the use of a smaller actress, but that is for the social commentary aspect of the drama. This throws some viewers off. The message from this time frame is that relationships, even though legal, should take into consideration the height (image) and maturity level between the 14 year old and the older person before starting a relationship. How will it look to society and are they on the same page as far as maturity level.

The next time frame is when she is 17 and he is 22. At this time, she has now grown up in height (image). However, she is still a child in maturity level as she does not understand the book he is reading The End of Eternity by Isaac Asimov. However, this is the time that you can clearly see that he is taking more of interest in her whether it is as a brother or boyfriend is up to the viewer to decide. It is also up to the viewer to decide whether it is moral or not.

The final time frame is when she is 19 and he is 24. It is at this time that they start dating and have their first sexual encounter. She is in college, has been through military training, and matured. She is of the age of consent, age of majority, but just not marriageable age (20 for females). Again, whether you consider this immoral is entirely up to you.

Some people see DJX's behavior as grooming. If you want to know specifically, please read my response to MikaM not too far below. I go into more detail and give examples from the drama about why people may see it as this.

Also, throughout the drama she speaks and acts like a child even when she is 19. But again, there is a reason for it. It is all a part of the social commentary aspect of the drama.

Happy drama watching.

The First Frost is a shared universe drama with Hidden Love. It is Sang Yan's love story whereas Hidden Love is Sang Zhi's love story. There is one other shared universe drama with these two and that is When I Meet the Moon. Not sure when it comes out or if it has already come out.

Happy drama watching.

I, too, have watched this drama three times. You have done an excellent job of analyzing Shao Shang's 15/16 year old character, and I agree with your assessment. What I don't agree with is your final conclusion. Since the drama takes place over the time frame of when she is 15-21, you have failed to take into consideration her age at the events you describe. Throughout most of the drama she is 15/16. She portrays most teenagers at this age: impulsive, think only about the present, selfish, and immature. Revenge is case by case and short lived (which she says many times). So her actions and behavior are spot on for her age and situations she is put in at that time.

Later on after the five year stay in the palace, you see how she has matured, and how her thinking has changed. She is no longer impulsive selfish, or carefree girl. She isn't out to get people. She wants to help them instead with her talents. By the end of the drama, she is taking care of business in a professional manner and becoming a productive member of society in something other than being a wife, mother, or nun.

Also, there are many types of intelligence. Your definition of intelligence seems to be one of social/emotional intelligence (something Shao Shang lacks due to her upbringing). You want your heroine to be witty and intelligent in the ways of how people work and that's okay. But that is not what Shao Shang's character is all about. In LLtG, Shao Shang is fighting against other girls around her age for Ling Bu Yi's attention. Since she is only 15/16 years old herself, she isn't going to have the maturity level of an adult. MIng Lan is an adult when she starts her revenge.

Hope this helps. I do agree with your analysis, I just don't think you have gone far enough in your thinking about Shao Shang's character and over all picture of the drama. You are only looking at one aspect of Shao Shangs character. jmo

Loved the movie this drama is based on and just watched it again. It is good to see that they kept the original names of the main characters and some of the scenes.

The teacher tried to ignore the mother by not answering her phone after school hours (6:00 P.M.) However, the mother went over to the teacher's house and asked why she wasn't answering her phone.

So what do you think the mother would have done had the teacher blocked her?

I understand what you are saying. But, again, it doesn't make any difference how the deposed king dies as long as he is dead. A king or queen can order someone to die by poison, but if that person decides they would rather hang themselves, it doesn't matter whether they have help or not. The person is still carrying out the wishes of the king or queen. The edict is for making sure the death sentence is carried out, it doesn't necessarily have to be in the way the edict says. Just as long as the death occurs.

No, as long as the deposed king dies who is going to care who does the deed. The reason why the warden is the one to pull the rope is because the king wants to die on his own terms, not by the terms of his uncle.

Historical accounts say the deposed king could have died in three different ways: poison proposed by his uncle, something else that I can't remember, and strangulation with the rope by one of the king's supporters which was also sanctioned by the uncle. So in order to get both those accounts into the tale the writers gave us the poison by the uncle and the deposed king the idea for the rope.

Hope this makes sense.

The death by poison was for the deposed king, not the warden. The warden wasn't punished because he did nothing wrong.

Yes, it is a wonderful drama but very dense and impactful. I would recommend it along with Nirvana in Fire as Hu Ge and Leo Wu are in both of these.

Yes, I do put each character and story under a microscope from beginning to end with each drama I watch. It is why I can agree with the op and I can agree with you. This is why I say, why can't this drama be a cautionary tale as well as a love story? Why are viewers dead set on only seeing it as one or the other?

Also, I did not take any scene out of context, the drama did. If the writers wanted us to see DJX as a good guy from the beginning, they would have showed us the scene we got in episode 25 before him going to the school. This would have relieved a lot of people's worry. However, they deliberately held it until the last episode. Why? It was with the intention of creating a cautionary tale.

In the end, as you have so aptly described, DJX did go to the school out of concern for her. Because of this, her life's trajectory changed for the better. His life's trajectory changed for the better as well. The cautionary tale is when she is 14 and 17, the love story is when she is 19-22. This drama is a very well crafted story from start to finish. It is a social commentary on a girl's love and sexual journey from her crush at 14 to a marriage proposal at 22. But it is also a cautionary tale as not all guys are like DJX.

Also, at the end, do some viewers see it as DJX grooming her? Yes, because everything he does for her makes her fall in love with him. Yet, is a 17 year old capable of this kind of mature love? Some people would argue yes, some would argue no. Were all of his actions intentional to make her fall in love with him (grooming)? That's a matter of perception, but I can see where viewers can as DJX is very angry with her when she ghosts him for a year with no explanation. Also, he is pretty jealous of the guy who likes her as well. If he were just her brother, why would he care that she ghosts him, siblings do that all the time. Why would he care if some other guy likes her. Also, how do I interpret that when he has been her teacher as well as someone interested in her since she was 17. At his graduation he hesitates when his friends ask him who she is. She calls him her tutor. He ends up calling her his sister because he is embarrassed for liking someone younger than him (episode 23). That was his conflicting moment. I will look good if I say she is my sister, it won't offend her, but it doesn't express how he truly feels as even doesn't know how he truly feels.

So did he do all that he did because of what the family has done for him or did he do it because he was interested in her? This again is left to the viewer to decide. If he did it strictly because of what the family has done for him, then he is green flag male. If he did because he was interested in her, that makes him a dog and a wolf in granny's clothing and possibly groomer (depends on viewer's definition of grooming).

I'm not saying I agree with the op fully. What I am saying is that I can see their point of view and can even argue it for them. I just don't happen to agree with it as I understand that this drama is a cautionary tale as well as a love story. Something I don't think either the op or you believe and that is okay.

Again, good to hear from you and for the discussion. Let's do it again next year!

Thank you and that's okay. I just want you to know that you are not the only one who sees what you are seeing. See the response I wrote to MikaM.

Hope everything is okay. Happy drama watching.

You're right. The first 12 episodes are about nostalgia and about first love. He is a green flag male through and through. But he does do some questionable things at the beginning of the drama that makes some viewers question his intentions. Myself included. That's why her age is very important. If she were 13 (which she is in novel), then it would be illegal for them to have a sexual relationship as she is a minor through and through.

At 14, however, she has become the legal age of consent. She can explore her sexuality with anyone from 14 and above. This is why the writers give her a love interest her age at all three age levels. She has a choice, yet she chooses someone older than her by five years. With this choice comes pitfalls: height (image) and distance (maturity level).

Before I write what I think next, please understand that I do not know Chinese, and I am basing it on the English translation on Netflix and DJX's behavior at the time.

Now, the questionable behavior that I see, and others (I think) see are as follows. You have every right to disagree with me as many viewers do. It's okay.

At 14, he goes to her school. Why? There is nothing in it for him. Yes, he is a nice guy, but we don't know that at the beginning of the drama. We don't even find out why he went in the first place until the last episode. Now, at the end of this intervention, the two make a promise to keep this a secret. We learn later on that DJX didn't even tell Sang Yan that he went to the school even though Sang Yan gave him permission to do so. Again, why? This is predatory/grooming behavior. Groomers do favors for their prey and keep it a secret to lure the prey into trusting them. At this point, he is a wolf in granny's clothing.

Now, skip to 17. When they meet at the car, one of the first things he brings up is the big favor he did for her when she was 14. Again, this is predatory/grooming behavior. If he really and truly was doing it as a favor to her, why mention it again. Also, he agrees to deliver her notebook to her. He should have given the notebook to Sang Yan to give to her, but he chooses to deliver it himself (doesn't tell Sang Yan). He even goes so far as to read what is in it and writes a letter/essay to her. If he truly had pure thoughts about her, why bother with giving her the notebook without telling Sang Yan. During this time, DJX does many things with Sang Zhi behind Sang Yan's back. Is he just being nice or is it leading up to something? Remember he is called a dog at this time. There are three definitions to the word dog and all three apply to DJX. I could go on, but I think you get the picture. You also need to watch DJX's facial expressions and body language when he is talking to her during this time. Sometimes he talks to her like a brother and other times he is predatory. He is a wolf in granny's clothing. Just because he keeps it in his pants, doesn't mean he is a green flag male. That is what groomers do. They wait for the perfect opportunity to strike.

You mention the writers would have shown DJX being conflicted during the time she is 14 and 17. They do numerous times, but in the end his dog side wins out. You can tell he likes her when she turns 17 by his facial expressions and body language. This is why viewers say it is predatory/grooming behavior.

Now, do I agree with interpretation. No, I can see it and understand where they are coming from and can even make an argument for it. But like most viewers, I see DJX as a decent human being who has no experience or confidence in loving someone or being loved by a girl. Remember this is his first time as well, so they are both on the same trajectory. They are each other's first and only love.

Also, why can't this drama be both a cautionary tale and love story at the same time? Why does it only have to be a love story? At what age should people start their sexual journey? According to Chinese law, 14, and with whom, anyone 14 and above. Remember not too long ago marriageable age was 15 and they could marry anyone.

Thank you for the discussion and information.

Thank you for your response. I understand what you are saying and happen to agree and disagree with you (I have read your other posts) and here is why.

First, at no time during the drama is Sang Zhi underage according to the age of consent law in China. She is 14 and according to Chinese law she can have sex with anyone 14 and above. She could even hold a job if she had a special permit. Do you see where I am going with this? It doesn't matter if Sang Zhi is physically, emotionally, or mature enough to have sex. Once she turns 14, she is fair game for any person 14 and over.

Now, how this becomes a social commentary on the age of consent starts from the beginning. Sang Zhi says in the first five minutes of the drama, "Time does have magic drawing us closer in height and distance" (Netflix translation). If girls are going to date older guys, especially at 14 and 17, then they need to take into consideration two things: height (image) and distance (maturity level). At 14 Sang Zhi is short for her age because she was sickly as a child and vastly more immature than DJX. If she were to go out with DJX, he would look like her dad because of his height. Is it okay for the two of them to have sex? According to the law, yes, even though he would look like her dad. Her height is commented on during the doorway scene in the first episode and again when she is 17. The drama specifically uses a younger actress (11 at the time) to show that 14 year olds are still children and need to be protected, even from someone just five years older because of their height and maturity level.

At 17 it is a different story, Sang Zhi is now near his height but not at his maturity level as she cannot understand the words of the book he is reading, The End of Eternity. They may now be closer in height, but their maturity levels are still vastly different. So this pairing is still something that should be looked at carefully to make sure the 17 year old is not getting taken advantage of (her fake online boyfriend for instance).

At 19, consent is a yes as now Sang Zhi is fully grown physically, completed her military training, and has reached the age of majority. She is attending college and will be at the same level of maturity as him. The age gap doesn't matter any more. Yet by law, she is still a child socially because she is not of marriageable age (20 for females).

So the drama is saying no at 14 because of height and maturity level, no at 17 because of maturity level, and yes at 19 because she is one year short of being a full blown adult.

You may not agree with that and that is okay. But the drama is showing girls, like Sang Zhi, the pitfalls of age gap relationships. As you said, kids will do what they are going to do. The only thing we can hope for is for them to do it safely. This drama provides a model of how to do it safely when it comes to a sexual relationship where there is an age gap even of just five years.

Now, to some viewers (such as yourself) this looked like grooming and pedophilia which is okay as DJX does do some things that are highly questionable in my opinion (but not to all). However, you have to realize that both of them are the age of consent even when she is 14. This is why I say is it morally right. The episodes when she is 14 and 17 are cautionary ones for girls her age at the time. Think Little Red Riding Hood (which is referenced many times). The drama is saying wait until you are an adult to have a sexual relationship.

Happy drama watching and thank you for the discussion.

I have done research on this topic as I had lots of questions about this drama after it aired. For most viewers, it is a simple, fluffy love story about a girl who has a crush on an older guy who happens to be her brother's friend. That is okay.

Here is the break down of laws in China pertaining this topic.

Age 14: Age of consent without restrictions. Only in the case of rape will the perpetrator go to prison, and even that is not a given as rape is hard to prove. Fourteen year olds can work with a special permit. They can serve time in jail for crimes. School is compulsory.

Age 15: Can legally drop out of school if they have been in school for nine years.

Age of 16: They can hold a job, but can't own a business or sign contracts.

Age of 18: They can now own a business, sign contracts, drink, smoke, etc. They are mostly considered an adult. What they can't do is marry.

After the age of 20 for females and age 22 for males, people are considered full blown adults.

How does this fit with Hidden Love.

Throughout the drama, Sang Zhi is technically a child (socially) until the last episode when she turns 20 and is legally a full blown adult. DJX, on the other hand, becomes a full blown adult after the first temporal node. This puts things in a different light as Sang Zhi is now 17, she is considered a minor when it comes to business dealings, but she is the age of consent, can drop out of school, and hold a job.

Presently as the law stands, children the age of 14 can become prostitutes because they can give consent and hold a special work permit. In theory, by changing the law of consent to 16, children the age of 14 and 15 would be protected from prostitution as they would not be legally able to give consent.

Hope this makes sense. Good to hear from you again. I hope you have been well.

What you have pointed out is the point of the drama. Because you are upset by those opening episodes, the drama did its job. It wanted you to question at what age should a girl start her sexual journey and with whom. This is why at each age 14, 17, and 19 she is given a love interest, yet she chooses someone who is older than her by five years. Neither she nor he are going against the law as the age of consent is 14 without restrictions. Now, the question remains is it morally right? The drama is saying no at 14 and 17 and yes when she is 19.

The people of China are working hard to get the age of consent changed to 16 year olds but with no luck. If you can't change a law change the mindset of the people. Technically, Sang Zhi remains a child (socially) until the last episode when she turns 20 and is of marriageable age. Many viewers see this as a simple, fluffy love story and that is okay. However, when looked at through what you have pointed out, it becomes a carefully constructed social commentary on the age of consent law in China.

Happy drama watching.

Because laws in Korea about minors committing crimes needs to be looked at more carefully. Minors can get away with literally murder because of these laws. This is why the main antagonist was only in jail for two year after murdering his teacher.

If the police bring them in and the justice system lets them go, what is the point of calling the police?

If you are looking for a highly questionable, but traditional revenge drama, this is it. While I loved the overall arching idea of who is good and who is evil, I felt it lost its way after the high school bullying episodes (episodes 3 and 4). After that it felt more like your run of the mill action drama.

Favorite part: The "romance" between Madam Lim and Do Gi which they creatively carried over into all three seasons.

Hey, good to hear from you. With as much attention as this drama is getting world wide, I think the right people will see it. Now, the question is will they do anything about it or will it get swept under the rug like always. With power comes responsibility.

Did you ever watch When Life Gives You Tangerines?

Happy drama watching.

Sorry, I know how you feel. It's been awhile for me as well. I doubt many viewers have read that short story or have even heard of it as everything is now based on webtoons or manwha. It is a fun watch.

Also, wanted to say thank you for your support in the comment section in A Female Student Arrives at the Imperial College.

Happy drama watching!

Based on the format of Jonathan Swift's "A Modest Proposal, it is an intelligently written social commentary on the top issues found in the Korean Educational System. However, it doesn't just bring them to light, it offers over-the-top solutions (entertainment) and some genuine solutions to change the mindset of the people.