Platinum Fox

You're right we shouldn't expect something every time we do something, and I will not take offense with your remark as you have just proved my point. Everyday we walk out of the house and seek validation as a human being through our jobs, through our friends, through our lovers, through our family, through this comment board, and of course, no one is obligated to validate us in any way. We do it because we are human beings and want someone (anyone) to recognize us as a human being. So apply this logic to ZWY.

ZWY is on the frontier because of what his father did. He is ostracized from society. What did he personally do wrong? Nothing. Sang Qi chooses to treat him differently and be nice to him. She chooses to treat him as a human being. It is because of her that he aspires to do well in school and earn the top spot, so that he can be worthy of her in the future. When she comes to the college, as a friend, she expects him to help her get in and even uses tactics to guilt him into doing it as he didn't want to do it. By this time, it is pretty clear that she is only using him to get what she wants. Remember she visits ZWY even before she visits her dad. It tells you where her priorities are and her thinking.

What's worse? Someone who directly tells you that you are a worthless human being or someone who makes you feel like a human being and then ends up using you like a kleenex. For me, Sang Qi is the second one.

I see that you have watched The First Frost and liked it. You should watch Hidden Love (it the same universe as TFF) to understand what I am talking about with this.

Also, you don't have to agree with my thoughts on the matter, nor do you even need to read this response. That's your prerogative.

Thank you for the discussion. Happy drama watching.

"A long friendship develops a sibling bond not the romantic. If you can't grasp that then something wrong with you."

I disagree with you. Long term friendships can turn into love and romance. In fact, your lover should be your best friend, no matter how long you have known the person. So your argument that just because they didn't fall in love on the frontier doesn't justify her actions of not taking the time to listen to him when he was trying to express his feelings for her. As a long time friend, this would be just plain courtesy. In fact, it is her actions that lead him to do what he does. Friends listen to each other, even though they may not like what they hear. If this makes me warped or misguided then so be it.

Can we out grow friends, sure. But at the time that she refused to listen to him, they were still friends and were still doing activities together. They were not in separate cities nor had they been away from each for a long period of time.

Thank you for the discussion and happy drama watching.

You have some good questions, so let's start with the first one. What is friendship? What does it mean to be a friend to someone? If she was under no obligation to care about anyone else's feelings but her own, then she shouldn't have been his friend out on the frontier. She had no obligation to be his friend there as everyone else picked on him, but she was nice to him. She stood up for him. She protected him from everyone else. Was this friendship or her just being nice?

When she arrived in the city, the first thing she was going to do was visit her "friend" who already studied at the college. Before she entered, ZWY was doing fine on his own and earned the top spot time and time again. He was even one of the four most eligible bachelors in the city. She relied on him to help her get into the college once she had permission from the emperor. He wasn't even going to help, but he did anyway, so who was being a friend here?

Did he expect something in return? It didn't appear to me that he did. But I don't think he expected her to fall in love with someone else as she was there to study, not get married. Also, he had never expressed any feelings for her before this as he felt he wasn't worthy of her until he graduated with top honors. So no they were not in a committed relationship, but a "friend" would have at least let someone express how they feel, even if they didn't want to hear it. So for your arguments to work, we have to define what it means to be a friend and was she his friend in the beginning or was she just being nice to him on the frontier?

If she wasn't his friend on the frontier, then I would agree with you that his feelings were his to deal with and she was under no obligation to listen to him. So this makes her no different than his aunt. After she got what she wanted from him, then she could discard him like a used piece of paper. Which by the end, I could see why he became selfish in his quest to woo her.

Now, was he the right person for her? No, he didn't understand her ambition and what she really wanted to accomplish when she went to the college. The Chief did understand what she wanted to accomplish as it was his goal as well, so they were perfect match. jmo

Thank you for the discussion and happy drama watching.

Actually at the time of filming she was 11. She is there for another reason as well which is why you probably feel uncomfortable. Since I don't know how far you are, I don't want to spoil it for you.

They needed the actress for her height and smallness due to Sang Zhi being sick as a child and underdeveloped.

Fun Fact: the girl who played 14 year old Sang Zhi has played the younger version of Zhao Lu Si's character in other dramas.

This reminded me so much of the U.S. TV show Dexter. It really does try to answer are we the way we are due to our nature or the way we were nurtured? Do we have free will, if our genes determine who we are?

Your analysis of the drama is spot on and I agree with it. However, your interpretation and my interpretation are very different. I asked the question, "What did we learn from this drama?" The goal in that society was to marry into a rich family and be a part of the upper echelon. Both sisters achieve that goal, but through different strategies with different results. The sister who goes about getting her husband by being a witch with a b, gets the rich count (goal achieved) who turns out to be abusive and has numerous concubines. (punishment for not doing it the right way). Ming Lan, on the other hand, meek and mild, gets the rich general who is very loving. Her reward for doing things the right way.

From your list of completed dramas, I see that you mainly watch dramas from the last four to five years. In China, women's stories have taken a different turn than those from 2010-2019. Strong women are no longer portrayed as villains, but normal people. The Story of Ming Lan and Ashes of Love are from a previous time and portray women very differently (no matter the genre) than modern ones. You will understand what I see when you have watched more dramas from 2010-2019.

Again, thank you for the discussion and insights. Happy drama watching.

You're right. When you watch a historical drama, you have to watch it through a historical lens. I agree with you on your analysis and why I enjoyed the show. However, you also have to look at the time period in which the drama was made to see what message the writers were trying to convey. It is that message that I disagree with. It is the message that the drama is sending about women that is outdated. Dramas made between 2010 and 2019 portray women as either a witch with a b to show that they are strong and independent or meek and mild (the quintessential girl that all men want). The women who portray the witches with a b were villains and the meek and mild ones were the good girls. Perpetuating that girls who want to be independent, intelligent, and strong are not good girls to marry and need to be tamed (the sister who marries an abusive husband). The meek and mild girls get the good guys.

Dramas made today are sending the message that women should be equal with men, and they are not villains because they want this equality. This is something that women in China have been fighting for for many years and will continue to do so. To portray women as equals allows women to see themselves outside of the home and family. If women choose to be mothers and keepers of the home that becomes their choice, not something that is prescribed by society.

Even Hollywood has changed its portrayal of women with the passage of time and changes in societal beliefs.

The women in this drama are either witches with a b or meek and mild that includes Ming Lan. She portrays strength and wisdom through her meek and mild actions. You're right she doesn't have to topple kingdoms to be considered strong and intelligent. But this drama perpetuates that women should be strong and intelligent only when it comes to dealing with home and family. That is why it is not a timeless drama and a product of its time as many dramas at that time portrayed women in such fashion. But the women have no real power, except in the home and family.

Also, I disagree with you on the men. The fathers in this drama are all gullible, especially when it comes to women. Gu Tingye is intelligent and navigates his household well when it comes to the male side, but that is expected of his character and the men of the time, but even he is at a loss as to how to deal with the women of his household, especially the concubines. She takes care of the concubines as it is part of being the head wife.

Thanks for the discussion and happy drama watching.

Masterpieces are those dramas that can be considered timeless. What does timeless mean without time. The characters of the story represent people from any time in history. Ashes of Love and The Story of Ming Lan are products of the era where in order to make women feel more empowered the characters are either witches with a b or portrayed as meek and mild. Men are considered gullible and stupid.

Yanxi Palace is some what different. It admits the king is the best courtesan that every woman in the harem seeks to gain favor. The queen tells herself that it's okay because she is the only legal wife of the king, but in reality she is just another woman in the harem and must seek to gain his favor as well. All the backstabbing is to create drama for the drama.

At first I thought the dramas from that era were pretty good, but then I watched Who Rules the World and LLtG. The characters in them represent old and new ways of thinking about women and what it means to empower them. Women can be strong without being witches with a b. Women do not have to hide their intelligence. They are treated as equal beings.

Thanks for the discussion and happy drama watching.

I have to disagree. The Story of Ming Lan is a product of its time.

Loved the social commentary on what love is, what it is not, and the emphasis on both women and men's issues of all ages. I liked how in the end, they changed their approach to not just divorcing someone, but actually trying to help marriages stay together if that is what was best and safe. Warning: there is a case where domestic violence occurs. For me, it was very disturbing.

Don't worry. I don't take any offense. I was just surprised that you said the ending was unsatisfactory. I found it to be most satisfying because from the beginning she didn't want to be empress. That was what she was really fighting against, her clans expectation that she be the empress and marry the first prince to make that happen. When she convinces her grandpa (the emperor) to not make her marry the first prince that is her first rebellious act. Dad of course is not happy with that decision.

When she wasn't married to the first prince, dad went for the next best thing. He had to marry her off to form an alliance with the most powerful army in the country. Fortunately, the man she was forced to marry was a decent man who thought of her instead of himself. I believe he didn't want to consummate the marriage until she was ready to accept him or he could divorce her. Yes, it was painful for her in the beginning, but I think she began to understand why he did what he did, especially after he came back from the war. You're right dad did do something right by marrying her off to him. As all of his actions were to protect her (even though some were a little misguided).

For me, the ending is perfect because both get what they want a quiet, pleasant life with the person they love and a child on the way. She fell in love with the plains people when she first went out on the plains with him after he came back from the war. jmo

Happy drama watching.

Not sure what ending you are referring to as the one I watched had the couple happily living on the plains with other couples and they were surrounded by war-orphaned children that they took care of. She was pregnant after having acupuncture. I would call that a happy ending.

I understand why you would feel that way about the title. I had a hard time understanding it as well as I only watch strong, intelligent female leads who always go against the customs of the day. But I think that was the point, she went against the customs of the day. She didn't settle on marrying the first prince (which was custom), but fought to marry the man she loved (the third prince).

When she found out she couldn't have children, she got a second opinion and did acupuncture treatments to help heal her womb, so she could have a child without dying. But, for me, the most rebellious thing was using a 39 year old woman as a 16 year old. Trying to defy age anyone.

Not sure what ending the other poster is referring to as the one I watched had the couple happily living on the plains with other couples and they were surrounded by war-orphaned children that they took care of. She was pregnant after having acupuncture. I would call that a happy ending.

Yes, our Zhao Lu Si is quite the talent. I will miss her dramas, but I wish her peace, health, and happiness.

Yes, Zhao Lu Si did all of her hair, makeup and styling for each scene.

The first half is about how fake, phony, and unreal the relationships are between the main characters. The second half is how the main characters become real people towards each other. Most people like the first half because it is your typical modern day drama. They dislike the second half because the main characters stop being phonies.

For me, this drama is the story of Zhao Lu Si's life as it is right now, minus the married part. The entire theme of the drama is be real with yourself down to even your clothes.

As this is only my second makjang drama, it is hard for me to judge whether it is a good makjang or not. But I now understand the structure and tropes of the genre. The drama is rich in symbolism and clearly pokes fun at the 1%.

The reason for revenge is fully explained in episodes 1 & 2. Lee Ra El's father was murdered for his company as he refused to merge with LY. Lee Ra El's father was also blamed for being a spy and stealing technological secrets, thereby ruining his name and reputation. LY is run by the CEO's father-in-law who had Lee Ra El's father killed in the first place. I'm only on episode 2. Now, whether the CEO knew about LRE's father's death is another thing.

Also, this is a makjang. Everything is supposed to be over-the-top and absurd. In a makjang the more the better. Watch The Last Empress; it will help you understand makjangs better. It did for me.