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The women in this drama are either witches with a b or meek and mild that includes Ming Lan. She portrays strength and wisdom through her meek and mild actions. You're right she doesn't have to topple kingdoms to be considered strong and intelligent. But this drama perpetuates that women should be strong and intelligent only when it comes to dealing with home and family. That is why it is not a timeless drama and a product of its time as many dramas at that time portrayed women in such fashion. But the women have no real power, except in the home and family.

Also, I disagree with you on the men. The fathers in this drama are all gullible, especially when it comes to women. Gu Tingye is intelligent and navigates his household well when it comes to the male side, but that is expected of his character and the men of the time, but even he is at a loss as to how to deal with the women of his household, especially the concubines. She takes care of the concubines as it is part of being the head wife.

Thanks for the discussion and happy drama watching.

Masterpieces are those dramas that can be considered timeless. What does timeless mean without time. The characters of the story represent people from any time in history. Ashes of Love and The Story of Ming Lan are products of the era where in order to make women feel more empowered the characters are either witches with a b or portrayed as meek and mild. Men are considered gullible and stupid.

Yanxi Palace is some what different. It admits the king is the best courtesan that every woman in the harem seeks to gain favor. The queen tells herself that it's okay because she is the only legal wife of the king, but in reality she is just another woman in the harem and must seek to gain his favor as well. All the backstabbing is to create drama for the drama.

At first I thought the dramas from that era were pretty good, but then I watched Who Rules the World and LLtG. The characters in them represent old and new ways of thinking about women and what it means to empower them. Women can be strong without being witches with a b. Women do not have to hide their intelligence. They are treated as equal beings.

Thanks for the discussion and happy drama watching.

I have to disagree. The Story of Ming Lan is a product of its time.

Loved the social commentary on what love is, what it is not, and the emphasis on both women and men's issues of all ages. I liked how in the end, they changed their approach to not just divorcing someone, but actually trying to help marriages stay together if that is what was best and safe. Warning: there is a case where domestic violence occurs. For me, it was very disturbing.

Don't worry. I don't take any offense. I was just surprised that you said the ending was unsatisfactory. I found it to be most satisfying because from the beginning she didn't want to be empress. That was what she was really fighting against, her clans expectation that she be the empress and marry the first prince to make that happen. When she convinces her grandpa (the emperor) to not make her marry the first prince that is her first rebellious act. Dad of course is not happy with that decision.

When she wasn't married to the first prince, dad went for the next best thing. He had to marry her off to form an alliance with the most powerful army in the country. Fortunately, the man she was forced to marry was a decent man who thought of her instead of himself. I believe he didn't want to consummate the marriage until she was ready to accept him or he could divorce her. Yes, it was painful for her in the beginning, but I think she began to understand why he did what he did, especially after he came back from the war. You're right dad did do something right by marrying her off to him. As all of his actions were to protect her (even though some were a little misguided).

For me, the ending is perfect because both get what they want a quiet, pleasant life with the person they love and a child on the way. She fell in love with the plains people when she first went out on the plains with him after he came back from the war. jmo

Happy drama watching.

Not sure what ending you are referring to as the one I watched had the couple happily living on the plains with other couples and they were surrounded by war-orphaned children that they took care of. She was pregnant after having acupuncture. I would call that a happy ending.

I understand why you would feel that way about the title. I had a hard time understanding it as well as I only watch strong, intelligent female leads who always go against the customs of the day. But I think that was the point, she went against the customs of the day. She didn't settle on marrying the first prince (which was custom), but fought to marry the man she loved (the third prince).

When she found out she couldn't have children, she got a second opinion and did acupuncture treatments to help heal her womb, so she could have a child without dying. But, for me, the most rebellious thing was using a 39 year old woman as a 16 year old. Trying to defy age anyone.

Not sure what ending the other poster is referring to as the one I watched had the couple happily living on the plains with other couples and they were surrounded by war-orphaned children that they took care of. She was pregnant after having acupuncture. I would call that a happy ending.

Yes, our Zhao Lu Si is quite the talent. I will miss her dramas, but I wish her peace, health, and happiness.

Yes, Zhao Lu Si did all of her hair, makeup and styling for each scene.

The first half is about how fake, phony, and unreal the relationships are between the main characters. The second half is how the main characters become real people towards each other. Most people like the first half because it is your typical modern day drama. They dislike the second half because the main characters stop being phonies.

For me, this drama is the story of Zhao Lu Si's life as it is right now, minus the married part. The entire theme of the drama is be real with yourself down to even your clothes.

As this is only my second makjang drama, it is hard for me to judge whether it is a good makjang or not. But I now understand the structure and tropes of the genre. The drama is rich in symbolism and clearly pokes fun at the 1%.

The reason for revenge is fully explained in episodes 1 & 2. Lee Ra El's father was murdered for his company as he refused to merge with LY. Lee Ra El's father was also blamed for being a spy and stealing technological secrets, thereby ruining his name and reputation. LY is run by the CEO's father-in-law who had Lee Ra El's father killed in the first place. I'm only on episode 2. Now, whether the CEO knew about LRE's father's death is another thing.

Also, this is a makjang. Everything is supposed to be over-the-top and absurd. In a makjang the more the better. Watch The Last Empress; it will help you understand makjangs better. It did for me.

This drama reminded me of Dong Yi aka Jewel in the Crown. That one is hilarious and much happier ending.

Just finished this, but have to disagree. They both loved each other equally. However, because of their status neither could really express their love to the fullest extent. He is married to the people and other women with the sole purpose of producing an heir. This is why they have the long conversation about how it would have been nice had they met as commoners.

If she truly did not love him, she would have continued to refuse him, and I believe he would have accepted it. I think he understood why she didn't want to become "his" in the first place. Circumstances forced them together.

I have not read the novel, so thank you for the information.
Happy drama watching.

So there was a script change? Do you know why the one child policy issue was censored? It is not like a big secret, and it has only been 11 years since the policy has changed.

Thank you for the explanation.

So let's address your concerns. There was no trusted aide left behind to guard the child. The family was not that wealthy at the time. They only become wealthy through their achievements on the battlefield. And NN did have a trusted servant Lian Fang and Lian Fang's "boyfriend" later to be husband. They protected her as much as they could.

When mom left for the battlefield, she had to make a choice. Do I leave my son or my daughter in order to show my filial piety to my mother-in-law who favors boys and is superstitious? Or do I leave my daughter, who society has already cast off as worthless? If mom had left the son, we would have an entirely different story as the son would have been spoiled probably to the point of being a bully, just like Aunt Ge. We can infer this by Aunt Ge's nephew bullying NN. At this time even mom reflects the values of the time that boys would be more useful on the battlefield than girls. She chooses the son fully knowing that grandmother and Aunt Ge favor boys.

Upon returning home after being away for 15 years, mom comes home to a girl who doesn't act the way a girl should. During the past 15 years, mom has changed as well as she is no longer the quintessential Han Dynasty woman. She is a progressive woman. You want mom to act like a general towards NN. Many viewers have said mom treats NN like a soldier. There is one scene where NN makes a snide remark and mom responds, "I have my ways of dealing with you." There is also a scene where mom says exactly what you want her to say, "I'm here now, you don't have to behave like you do now." But, remember NN trusts no one and why should she. No one has ever been on her side; she is skeptical that mom is as well. Many of the beginning scenes you see NN misinterpreting people's intentions, especially her mother's. Also, dad and 3rd aunt and uncle think that mom is being too harsh with NN, so she can't really go all militaristic on NN.

You may have found the story unconvincing and poorly written, but many viewers have reacted quite strongly to the mother character to the point of calling her abusive and saying that she should just love NN just like the empress and be gentle with her. You seem to be taking the opposite stance. So in a sense the writers did their job of convincing you that NN needed to be disciplined rather than just being allowed to do whatever she wanted just because of her circumstances.

The fact that you and I are having a conversation like this tells you the story did its job. Whether you found it unconvincing or poorly written, it got you questioning the ways of disciplining a child. What are the true purposes of stories?

To be honest, I found the first season better written than the second season. The second season for me had a very different feel to it. It could be because of the topics now being at the national level instead of the personal or family. I don't know. I'm still trying to figure that out. Yet I do know that it is very craftily done.

Thanks for the discussion and happy drama watching.

Your take on the ending is something I had never even considered, and I find it intriguing. The whole drama is about appearance vs. reality. In the end, XFF really is "a ghost" as she told JL's father that she would live as JL until the grandmother passed away. XFF wanted to spare the grandmother the knowledge that JL had already died. So in a sense you are right, XFF is "a ghost" until grandmother passes. Then, she will be able to live as herself again.

For me, the ending is poetic justice for XFF taking her revenge too far on the princess. It is just like Princess Wei Young, whose happy life is cut to 10 years because she goes overboard in her revenge of her family. jmo

The parents favor the older sister for three reasons. One, XY had heart valve issues when she was a baby. She needed an expensive operation that the parents couldn't afford. The grandmother steps in and pays for it and XY becomes her legal ward. When XY returns to the family, Qiao Lin is the older daughter and just like with boys, the older sibling gets all the attention and resources, despite their ability. Finally, the drama is written during the time the one child policy was still in play which any children outside of the oldest child didn't receive any money from the government to support the raising of that child. Thus, despite QL's lack of discipline, she would be the one to receive the government money. This is just my take on it. I could be wrong.

You're right, so why would they have her talk and act like a child when she is 17? That's the point of the whole drama, and it is good that you are uncomfortable. That was intention of the writer. Should 14 and 19 year olds be a couple? Should 17 and 22 year olds be a couple? A hundred years ago this was the standard marriage arrangement. It is only in today's society that getting married in your teenage years is considered a bad idea as teenagers still have a great deal of growing up to do.

This drama is a social commentary on the age of consent law in China which is 14. Are 14 year olds mature enough to handle a sexual relationship with someone who is even just five years older than them? Or even 10 years? She speaks like a child for a reason, it is not just to sound cute.