Platinum Fox

Yes, I watch dramas to understand a society's values on all subjects, not for entertainment. If it entertains me during the process, that is an added bonus. Unfortunately, I do not understand Chinese, and must rely on subtitles. I have been told that the subtitles are off on the channel that I watched it on, Netflix. Translation makes or breaks a drama.

I write to learn, so I will try and answer your question.

Yes, even good people must take responsibility for their actions and beliefs. Consequences of actions and beliefs can be good or bad. In this drama the women are constantly taking responsibility for what the men do and what they themselves do. None of the men, except the villains, are held accountable for their actions. Example, one of the leaders is a philanderer and is held in high regard as the leader of the sect. When the leader is killed in a compromising position (created by his illegitimate son) only then is his sin found out, but the "good" leader doesn't have to take responsibility for his actions. Instead his philandering ways are redeemed because the illegitimate son becomes a "bad" guy through his own actions, but it all stems from the leader not taking responsibility for his philandering ways.

A commenter has told me that the confession scene is where the translation is said to be flawed in the drama. In the drama, when JGY confesses to LXC about his sister, it makes it sound as if JGY knew he loved his sister in the wrong way, but went ahead and had sex with her anyway. In the end, his sin is found out because she has a child with him which he later kills. This commenter says that the translation is off because it is said that JGY married the girl he loved, got her pregnant, and then found out she was his sister. In the aftermath, JGY never touched her again and killed the baby from the union. That is what happened in the novel. Now, I have to argue if that is really the order of events in the drama. Let me explain.

Whether JGY knew his wife was his sister or not before he had sex with her, he ends up killing the baby from that union and in the end killing his sister to hide his sin. (What did the baby and sister do to deserve death). But it now asks the question, who is worse, a philandering leader (the father) or an incestuous killer (the son)? Talk about the sins of the father affecting the son. This takes that belief to a whole new level. This minimizes the fact that the father does not take responsibility for his philandering ways, and the other leaders of the different sects uphold him as a virtuous man. It is a woman who tells JGY that the woman he loves is his sister and only after he is married to her. Now, once he finds out, instead of divorcing her immediately (he doesn't have to give a detailed reason for the divorce), he hides her away in his treasure vault (another interesting image created by the writers). This is why I have to question if the translation is wrong in the drama.

What is interesting is in the novel this same philandering leader has a son, Mo Xuan Yu, who is gay and hits on all the disciples while he is at the sect compound. MXY is eventually thrown out of the sect because of his homosexuality. In the drama, the writers mirror what happens to WWX in the novel onto JGY our villain. Now interpret that as you will.

As I said, the writers had a wonderful opportunity to take the novel and create a heavy social commentary on life in China for women and homosexuals. Instead we got a censored relationship and propaganda about how women and homosexuality should be hidden away, women should take responsibility for men's actions, and women should die to protect their family. Men, good or bad, just need to live their lives with little to no consequences for their actions. Sorry, I can't perpetuate that kind of message.

Yesterday, I started watching Word of Honor. OMG, I was hooked and binged five episodes in one day. The chemistry between the two main leads is through the roof. The sexual innuendos are prevalent throughout the five episodes that I have watched, and yet it, too, is a censored danmei. As matter of fact, I feel like I am watching a remake of The Untamed only done much better.

This is just my opinion and feel free to disagree.

Thank you for the discussion and your insights. Happy drama watching.

I understand. LLtG is not for everyone. Don't know if I will continue Joy of Life as it took me a year to get through season 1. I did watch the first episode of Season 2 to see how they brought back the characters.

Do you know how there are some actors/actresses who just grab you and you want to watch them in other things? Well, I tried to watch some of the main actors in their other dramas and they didn't capture my attention there either. Maybe as the 3rd season comes, I may watch the second season. What I did like about this drama was that one of the main characters had a physical disability. That is something I have not seen in Chinese dramas. Main characters can be blind, but not have any physical disabilities.

Thank you for the discussion and insights.

You and I seem to be on the same wave length with this one. I, too, felt this was a parody on some of the more recent dramas. I haven't laughed so hard since the first 20 episodes of The Double. I am only on episode 25, so I haven't seen her war scenes yet. I will just continue to think of this as a parody.

Thank you for the spoiler. That's interesting about the mother in Joy of Life. I kinda picked that up in the last few episodes of the drama. Niao Niao's character in the novel is also a trans-migrator, but they took it out of LLtG due to the time travel ban in dramas. Also, I think Zhao Lu Si would not have played the part if it had been left in there as she prefers to portray characters who use their own abilities rather than relying on "something" else. That was the point of the whole drama. Women are capable of creating and doing things and should be given the recognition and venue to do so.

It sounds like Joy of Life and LLtG were trying to get at the same thing, just through a different means.

Thank you for the different perspective on this drama. I'm glad that you enjoyed it (I noticed you rated it a 10). I can agree with you that the writers took a strong stance on surface judgement, but in the end, it still caves to the Chinese position on homosexuality and views on women. Men do not have to take responsibility for their actions, but women have to. Notice all the important women in this drama die. The two main characters split up in the end even though they are soulmates and best friends. The only men who take responsibility for their actions are the villains. All of them die as their deeds are too terrible to let them live.

For me, I think the writers tried to do a social commentary on Chinese life and failed miserably through weak directing, amateur at best acting, and poor storytelling. What I can appreciate is the cultural value of this drama.

Of course this is all my opinion and anyone can disagree, which it looks like many viewers do and that is okay.

You have made my point. Both men are afraid of their wives and their accomplishments, yet somehow the men look better for these accomplishments. You do not see the emperor rewarding the mother specifically for her accomplishments on the battlefield. It is the husband who is rewarded. NN is rewarded specifically because of her achievements in Huo County, and this is because LBY asks the emperor to do so.

There is a very telling scene in LLtG with mom. When NN receives her praise from the emperor, mom is seen turning her head. I am not quite sure how to interpret the look she has. Is it one of jealousy, disgust, or happiness that NN is individually recognized for her accomplishments in Huo County? If I go with her character, mom would be jealous after all she worked hard along side her husband, and it was the husband who was praised. The mother's husband did not ask the emperor to praise his wife for all her contributions on the battlefield.

LLtG makes the point that women should be recognized for their own accomplishments, not have them connected to the men in their life.

I will have to take your word for Joy of Life as I have only watched the first season and struggled to get through that. In the first season of Joy of Life, the main character's mom is dead and her ideals have long been forgotten, so you could say she has been overshadowed by the men in her life even though she fought for equality.

As for Zhao Lu Si, her first drama "Untouchable Lovers", she was a social activist. Her character, even though she was "the villain" talked about not using women as pawns to form alliances and gain power even though she had a very shallow character.

Thanks for the discussion and happy drama watching.

Most people don't watch Zhao Lu Si's dramas for their depth. She is quite the social activist in her dramas.

Yes, Niao Niao is the one who stays with her grandmother on her father's side. Not sure whose grandmother Fan Xian stays with (his adoptive parents maybe?).

I disagree. The characters in Ming Lan are stagnant to their time period in history. They represent a period of time in history where women were thought to be baby makers, mothers, and keepers of the home. They held no real power, except in the home. To use your words, "they are stuck in a time capsule". Even if you watched it in 2415, the characters would give off the same message. Women should be baby makers, mothers, and keepers of the home. This concept of women is changing and expanding. In most societies they recognize that women are people with their own thoughts, desires, and ambitions. They are not limited to just being homemakers.

Furthermore, the characters are stuck in the time period when the drama was made 2010-2019. During this time the Chinese ended the one child policy. The government encouraged families to have more than one child. Who is going to raise these children? Well, the age old belief that women should be keepers of the home comes back into play, thus the Story of Min Lan. Notice the characters who go against this concept are rewarded with terrible lives. Ming Lan's life is consistently made better because she followed the rules of womanhood for the time.

On the other hand, Love Like the Galaxy is timeless. You could watch it in 2415, and its messages on women, discipline, nepotism, favoritism would still be relevant even though it was set in the Han dynasty where women basically had two choices (get married or a nunnery). Niao Niao is a timeless character. Her ideas that women can do and be anything are timeless. If they want to be mothers and keepers of the home, it becomes a choice, not a given role that women throughout time have been forced to play. Unlike Ming Lan whose only purpose is to push forward the belief that women should only be certain things in life. Ming Lan is a product of her time both in the drama and outside the drama.

Thanks for the discussion.

I watched not even knowing who Zhao Li Ying is. I enjoyed it to episode 55 and then skipped to the end and felt I didn't miss a thing. Later on I realized Zhao Li Ying plays the same character, different name, in all her dramas. Sorry if you are a Zhao Li Ying fan.

Actually, I think there are some modern day dramas that should be considered masterpieces as the characters are timeless. jmo

Glad you enjoyed the discussion, so are you telling me that I am trapped in a time capsule? Yes, I understand that movies and dramas from earlier times can be masterpieces. However, The Story of Ming Lan as stated above is a product of its time, just because it is popular doesn't make it a masterpiece.

And you have every right to believe that the story is a bromance, just as lily has the right to believe that it is bl. I can see it both ways.

Happy drama watching!

Yes, you're right its possible. However, as I wrote a long time ago, if you replace one of the boys with a woman and have the same effect than it is love.

No, in the opening the scene Sang Zhi is 17. They flash back to when she is 14 and meets DJX for the first time when he comes home with Sang Yan. She is small for her age because she was a sickly child and underdeveloped. He agrees to talk with Sang Yan about visiting her school. Sang Yan refuses to do it and DJX goes instead, which turns out to be what is best for Sang Zhi as she begins to take school seriously, so her parents don't find out.

The actress who plays the 14 year old Sang Zhi was 11 at the time. The actress has played Zhao Lu Si's younger version in two other dramas. Unfortunately, the actress is getting too old to play Zhao Lu Si any more.

Actually, the mother gets toned down a great deal during the later half of the first season. There is one scene in the second season that is a little hard to take, but is quite necessary to make NN realize what she must do as she is the only one who can do it. The ending scenes are just wonderful, especially between NN and her mother.

Also, there is a scene where you can see that the mother and daughter are quite similar in character.

Actually, it is spot on that DJX is the same actor from beginning to end. DJX is at the age of majority, 18, an adult at 19. As humans, we are basically full grown by 18. How much changing in his physique would DJX have from 19 to 27, not much. It is only through our hairstyles and clothing that you can really tell the difference in peoples ages.

On the other hand, Zhao Lu Si could not play her 14-year-old self (even though she has played 14/15 year olds in other dramas). She would not have been able to "grow in height" during the first temporal node. Throughout most of the drama Sang Zhi is technically a child on the social level as she cannot get married until episode 25 when she officially turns 20. Thus, this is why she talks like a child and acts like child throughout most of the drama. I have to admit that I found the baby voice annoying as well and had to turn off the sound. However, I finally understand why she speaks like that throughout most of the drama.

This is an age of consent social commentary and cautionary tale drama. When she is 14 (age of consent with no restrictions), the drama says even though DJX is 19, he could be mistaken for Sang Zhi's dad. The drama says that if 14 and 19 year olds are going to be together then they must take into consideration their height and maturity level. At 17, she is still a child, but she has now grown up in height, but she still is not at the same maturity level as DJX.

When she is 19, she is the age of consent and the age of majority, but is not of marriageable age. Love O2O (written by the same author and director) explains that Chinese women are still children until they are of marriageable age. Yet, they are old enough to consent, thus, the cautionary tale.

Hope this helps.

Actually, it is spot on that DJX is the same actor from beginning to end. DJX is at the age of majority, 18, an adult at 19.. As humans, we are basically full grown by 18. How much changing in his physique would DJX have from 19 to 27, not much. It is only through our hairstyles and clothing that you can really tell the difference peoples ages.

On the other hand, Zhao Lu Si could not play her 14-year-old self (even though she has played 14/15 year olds in other dramas). She would not have been able to "grow in height" during the first temporal node. Throughout most of the drama Sang Zhi is technically a child on the social level as she cannot get married until episode 25 when she officially turns 20. Thus, this is why she talks like a child and acts like child throughout most of the drama. I have to admit that I found the baby voice annoying as well and had to turn off the sound. However, I finally understand why she speaks like that throughout most of the drama.

This is an age of consent social commentary and cautionary tale drama. When she is 14 (age of consent with no restrictions), the drama says even though DJX is 19, he could be mistaken for Sang Zhi's dad. The drama says that if 14 and 19 year olds are going to be together then they must take into consideration their height and maturity level. At 17, she is still a child, but she has now grown up in height, but she still is not at the same maturity level as DJX.

When she is 19, she is the age of consent and the age of majority, but is not of marriageable age. Love O2O (written by the same author and director) explains that Chinese women are still children until they are of marriageable age. Yet, they are old enough to consent, thus, the cautionary tale.

Hope this helps.

You're right we are not the same person we were at 19 and 24. However, when it comes to social interactions and dating, they are definitely on the same trajectory. He was not allowed to date or do fun things in college or high school as he was working all the time in order to pay the bills. He missed out on playing sports, hanging out with girls, and basically just enjoying life. That's why the scene where he is playing basketball with her friends is so important, he now has time to do the things that he never got to do while at college. It's just with people who are younger than him. Now, he also has time and money to date. So socially-emotionally they are on the same page. jmo

When he finally does propose to her she is 22 and he is 27. Now, I am assuming that they will wait a while to get married. So what is the big deal?

Did you understand why she wanted her brother Sang Yan to go instead of her parents? If her brother went, then she wouldn't get in as much trouble than if parents went. Since you didn't watch all of the drama, then you do not understand why DJX went in the first place instead of Sang Yan. Sang Yan refused to go even after DJX talked with him about it.

Now, actually by having DJX go, this makes Sang Zhi take school more seriously, so that her parents would not find out about DJX going instead. This "lie" actually made Sang Zhi a better person in the end. So I have to disagree with you.

Short Circuit, you have every right to disagree with me and to offer a different perspective. However, please stop saying that posters who see the drama in a different way are wrong or twisted. This is why people who don't like a drama never write or give opinions because they are attacked for it.

Also, I feel you are trying to explain my interpretation and do not understand what I am saying. That is on me as I must not be making myself clear enough through my writing. I write to learn, so I will explain it.

1. You say there is no second couple in the drama. If there is, then they are only comrades or brothers, not lovers. You are right, but only because this is a censored danmei. However, I also have to disagree with you. Here is why. JGY and LXC are foils for the two main characters. A literary foil is a character(s), subplot, or setting that contrasts with another—usually the protagonist—to highlight specific traits, values, or motivations. Originating from the practice of backing gems with metal foil to increase their brilliance, a foil makes the main character’s qualities shine more brightly. Their story serves as a moral lesson of not what to do and makes the two main characters' story "shine more brightly". What is worse an incestuous killer or a guy who practices demonic cultivation that he uses for good? Juxtapose the villain and hero and the people who "love" and protect them. Notice at the end, the main characters are off on their separate journeys. The atmosphere is one of happiness and love. Just prior to that, you have the ending of the other two with the big reveal or confession of who the villain is and why. One dies and the other goes into isolation. If the two were just comrades (by the way comrades is a slang term for homosexuality in Chinese culture), LXC could mourn openly or not at all due to the severity of JGY's crimes. Just saying why hide in isolation? Wasn't the killing of JGY justified?

2. As for the women, I do not understand what you are trying to say. My comment strictly said that I did not like how women were portrayed in this drama. I didn't say that the screenwriters (two of them women) were trying to make a grand statement about women.

3. You have stated that there is no pda in the novel between the two until the very last chapters (I disagree) and the big confession is the climax of the novel. Since the drama already has the two as friends, then there is no need for a big confession at the end. However, since JGY and LXC are the foils for our main characters, a big reveal and confession are needed. Hence the strange interaction between them at the end of the drama which can be left to the viewer's interpretation. The same with the chemistry between the two main leads. Notice I wrote, for me in front of my comment judging WYB's acting. You found his acting spot on. You explained it as that his character is cold and aloof. You're right his character is meant to be cold and aloof. Yet, there are ways to humanize a cold, aloof person without coming off as stiff, unnatural, and very weak. For me, that is what WYB's acting came off as (I blame the director), and it really affected my enjoyment of the drama. You have the right to disagree.

4. Danmei uses male love as a plot device to explore women's sexuality and identity. In danmei, women can see themselves as either of the two men involved. In the drama, the relationship between LWJ and WWX is equal. Even though LWJ is given the stereotypical characteristics of a man and WWX is given the stereotypical characteristics of a woman, both men support each other through weal and woe. By the end, no one in the relationship has more power than the other. There is no top or bottom. LWJ supports WWX's practice of demonic cultivation and helps him manage the anger and madness that is inside him through music and love. All women want lovers (whoever they are) who will support them in whatever they decide to do. I love this message and can get behind it. The message I didn't like was that of the foils.

I hope this helps you see what I am saying. You don't have to agree with me.

This was a sweet drama. The premise reminds me a great deal of the Hollywood movie 51 First Dates, but with a bittersweet ending.