PrettyCarEye

Yes, not surprisingly we share the same view regarding the Hong Sisters.

Their dramas are always very entertaining to start off with. There's great comedy, quirky scenarios and characters and the promise of romance. The problem, though, is that as the episodes go on, all that magic fizzle out.

I remember watching The Greatest Love years ago & I loved it so much until somewhere around ep 8 - 12 ... it just started to misfire. The love triangle became more intensified and everything I liked about the drama in the beginning was totally lost by the end.

I soon figured out that the Hong Sisters' story patterns weren't fully to my liking. They're partially blacklisted, but I wouldn't be opposed to watching them again if everything (story, cast, tropes, real kisses) falls into place with their next drama.

I also did watch the first epi of Master's Sun, btw, and you're right, it was good! I think I decided not to continue watching the drama because someone told me that the love triangle was particularly annoying there so I said no way. I've also skip-watched other dramas of theirs like Big & Warm & Cozy. Same thing. Starts off great, crash & burn in the middle.

As for Nine, I do recall that it didn't pick up steam until the middle episodes, but it kept getting better and better til the end. I much prefer this kind of drama vs the Hongs' kind of drama.

At least with a drama like Nine, you have something exciting to look forward to even if it starts out boring. But with the Hongs', their dramas start with a bang, build up your anticipation only to disappoint you as things progress.

Oh right! 2019. I'm going to do some further investigations and see if I can watch it then.

"In all my life as a drama spectator, this is the only character I ended up really hating in the first degree! I'm worried about the actor, because he's really at risk of being assaulted in the street."

Haha, this made me bust out laughing! Is he that bad??? Damn!
Maybe I'll watch a couple episodes before going to bed. You got me all curious & since we're on lockdown, I can sleep in tomorrow!

Heck, we even like the same kind of drink! ;)

Yah! Who are you calling annoying ...!?! lol
I know my 'demands' are mind boggling to most, but it's all good! They're mine and I'm keeping 'em! :)

I'm not very musical, so it's very rare that I pay attention to the OTS, unless it's particularly beguiling, to the point where it manages to bust through my consciousness.

I watched the clip. I love the two leading actors, although I'm sad that Ryu Soo Young , the abusive husband, is playing the bad guy again (he played a similar role in Endless Love, I believe, with none other than our very own Queen of Scream, Hwang Jung Eun! lol). I didn't have any negative reaction to the actress playing the FL either. Story sounds like it could be an interesting melodrama. Love stories like these can be really good if they're not totally botched my the writer. I might watch this! I'll wait til it stops airing to see what the ending is like.

Well, I just gave you a whole rant on my views of feminism. lol
What I look for in dramas, I've tried to describe that on my profile.
My view on coronavirus ...? I hope I don't catch it!
I'll be looking out for that article.

I hear you. One theory could be that drama audiences probably consist of mostly straight females who find the male actors attractive and give them more of a pass for that reason. That doesn't have anything to do with 'toxic patriarchy'. That's just biology, normal human attraction between men & women.

If you notice, male viewers tend to give female actors more of a pass for the same reason, whilst being more critical of MLs and or the actors who play them. So are they engaging in 'toxic matriarchy'?

I very rarely put up a protest about female characters in dramas, but there are some actresses whose on-screen presence repell me and I'll comment on that. Doesn't mean I have anything against them personally, I just don't like them as actors. People are allowed to like or dislike who they want, and freedom of speech affords us the privilege of voicing those opinions.

Every criticism leveled at women doesn't have be steeped in so-called 'toxic patriarchy' - a term that is fast becoming overused & ridiculous - because it's being used entirely out of context by too many bandwagonist feminists. I'm not saying you specifically are that, but in general.

I heart this comment of yours so much!

W, my chinguya (and that's a compliment, dude, because I don't give away my 'chingu' badges easily), I think you're one of my very few spirit animals on MDL. A very rare occurrence, as rare as sightings of the golden unicorn!

I realize that we have totally different tastes in dramas - or rather you might be the male version of me. You like all the same things I like in reverse & I like all the things you like in reverse! haha Dæbak!

In spite of this, we seem to filter, view & perceive so many things in like fashion! Interesting ...

Anyway, this comment of yours is sooo pertinent, I'd risk catching coronavirus to buy you a drink!

There's just no better way to respond to the poster, even down to your very last comment about Park Min Young. As a girl, I feel the exact same way about my bæ, Song Seung Heon! ;-)

I haven't seen the drama, but why does that make her 'weak', though?
Is she weak or does her *circumstances* make her react less than her capabilities? After all, there are forces in life that human beings sometimes can not control & oftentimes we may succumb to their potency, irrespective of one's actual inner strength. Poverty, for eg, is one such force.

I can totally get behind your irrational love! :)
I'm wholly guilty of the same when it comes to my favourite actors (though when it's necessary I'm fully capable of be objective too).

I think the Hong Sisters write good comedy, but a lot of times their character & story developments have the rather odd juxaposition between plain bad and ingenious. I always get a good laugh out of their dramas, but I don't tend to enjoy the romantic aspects of their shows. Their romance is too often ridden with tired cliches, most egregiously, the overused & irritating love triangle that always overstays its welcome. And worse of all? They're the type of writers to infantilize their characters with all the fake & artificial intimacy.

You already know how abhorrent that is to me! lol

Hotel del Luna ticked all these boxes for me so I just stayed far, far away. Moreoever, isn't that the usual spiel with noona romances ...? They make the older woman childish & immature to make her seem more on par with the ml's age & make him seem more mature & level-headed to make him seem more on par with her age. Meh, it's not my thing.

We appreciate dramas differently, and I'm totally good with that. I was more so sharing my approach to analyzing dramas rather than criticizing yours. I've read all your comments, in response to my posts and others, and I can certainly see how you might arrive at your perspective, even though it's quite different from my own.

Generally speaking, not specifically in response to your article, I think the main reason why I often have a reaction (usually a negative one) to articles about female strength ... or lack thereof, is that only one type of female behaviour is usually hailed as 'strength'.

And usually it's the 'strength' that many viewers find repellent in MLs, but as soon as a FL display these same traits, all of sudden it's GIRL POWER!!! MLs get dragged for days for being 'assholes', but a female with the same so-called 'asshole' traits is a 'badass'. It doesn't make any sense. And it's this type of hypocrisy & cognitive dissonance that repels me from most feminist thought.

As you've pointed out with the examples of MARS & WHIB, most people very rarely take a more nuanced view of the female lead's behaviour to identify strength in how she deals with her specific set of circumstances. To wit, does she grow?

The focus is always on surface level stuff like the fact that she cries or is a damsel in distress. As if the ONLY way to show strength is to be arrogant & ball-busting & having all the answers. All other traits in a woman are discarded as 'weak' & 'pathetic'
It's a very cliche & one-dimensional POV, in my view. I'd love to read an article about female leads with 'unconventional' strength. Now that would be interesting!

My opinions on feminism, which usually fuels a lot of the discourse on women in dramas, do not follow the mainstream and are anathema to most people, esp in the type of political climate we live in now. I know this.

However, the great thing about being 'old', by MDL stardards, is that I am unburdened by other people's opinions about my opinions. :-)

I base said opinions on my lived experience and observations of human behaviour & nature, rather than the ideological indoctrination of post modern feminist theory.

I agree with the basic feminist concept that men and women share many traits, by virtue of human nature. But on the flip side, what it fails to encompass is how women and men are also completely different at the same time. So saying things like the vast majority of women will look to men to save them in times of crisis becomes very politically incorrect to say, even though this is often evidenced by every such observable disaster.

It's odd ... these jedi mind tricks don't jive well with my rational mind. It's like someone telling you the sky is green when you see very clearly that it is, in fact, blue.

As you know, I don't care for Ha Ji Won as an actress. There's just something about her that puts me way off. But the rest of your comment makes a lot of sense!

I knew the minute I saw clips of Hotel Del Luna that this wasn't going to be a good drama for me. Aside from the fact that the ml is quite literally a kid ... your observations about the fl were also quite keen because this is the way I perceived her too.

I felt the same way about Ji Ho, the main female lead in Because This Is My First Life. I found her to be so self-absorbed, entitled and selfish. She had this huge chip on her shoulder & behaved like the whole world - esp ml - owed her something. The atrocious victim-mentality was very off-putting for me. I couldn't understand what in the world about her he was so in love with.

Maybe it was as much a poorly written character as the actress's poor portrayal of her.

Haha!

"it's all in execution and care. i agree with your premise but the blame should be atp on the world created (and the poor acting.) but it's not who the characters are at their core? it's the way they are perceived?"

OMG, yeeeessss!!! THIS all day! Especially this part - THE BLAME SHOULD BE ATP ON THE WORLD CREATED (AND THE POOR ACTING).

Yup, which is what I've said a thousand times too. It's not the character that's the problem for me. The characters are just reacting to the situations they find themselves in, AS CREATED BY THE WRITER. The character is also INTERPRETED by the actor, who if they're a poor performer, will botch the character's portrayal.

For me, Oh Hæ Young was actually an interesting character. A very real character because A LOT of women (and men) walk around with the same insecurities as her. But the actress made her kinda obnoxious & unlikable, in my opinion. And that's the reason I didn't really like the drama overall.

I disagree with the rest of your comment about the drama as well. If interested, you can scroll up to my comment & read my interpretation of the ML. Now, I will concede that I can't remember much of the drama, I don't remember specific details so I can't pinpoint exactly what I disagree with, but I know I didn't interpret the drama or his character in the same way you did. I see this may be an ideological issue (different politics, which is fine, we can agree to disagree), but we have the same logic when it comes to the creative process. Separate sides of the same coin! That should count for something!

"It was the first time I ever looked at a female lead and thought, I would probably be selfish and act like that too if I was always put in second place and never felt like the 'pretty" OHY. Especially if I was always compared to her. That would be so tiring so I connected with that."

THIS! Very spot on. This is why I wasn't bothered by the character either. Because this - what you describe - is a very human thing. Even if you acknowledge that someone is better & prettier than you, it sucks to always be in 2nd place. And many many people, I'd say most people, would feel like this given the same set of circumstances the FL found herself in.

That's why the character herself didn't bother me. But the WAY in which the actress played her was annoying, if that makes sense. Instead of empathizing with her, I felt repelled by her because the actress made her seem ... unlikable & obnoxious in some way.

I agree with this. I don't mind if a female lead cries or is overcome with emotion, but it has to be in the right context & in line with the character's personality as it was set up at the beginning.

The lack of consistency in the character's personality can be quite infuriating & I've experienced a few dramas where this happens, though, I can't come up on any really good examples now.

I think the problem lies in both the quality of scripts the actors get AND how they interpret their characters. That's why instead of being critical of the character, I tend to be more repelled by how the actor interpret & portray the role. My blacklist is long & growing for this very reason.

You must not have been on this site very long. Because the viewing audience on here LOVE to hate on the 'jerk' male lead. And I put 'jerk' in quotation marks because of lot of the ml characters who are labelled as such often aren't ... at least not in my opinion.

I'm not saying there aren't in fact REAL asshat male leads. A lot of viewers are just too immature & inexperienced to understand human motivations or certain character traits that may manifest in people so a ml who isn't a cuddly puppy is always labelled a 'jerk'.

There have been countless articles over the years. Also check out the forum threads ... people are always whining about this & asking for recs of an opposite kind.

Moreover, why is it that any criticism leveled at FLs always mean that MLs have to be criticized at the same time? This article is about the OP's list of dumb FLs. That's the topic of discussion now, not bad MLs. Also if you believe in 'toxic patriarchy', I hope you believe in 'toxic matriarchy' too because everything in life has its counterpart.

Now, if a woman is in a dangerous situation and is scared and crying and wanting to be rescued, what's wrong with that? That's how 99% of women in real life would react. In general, when disaster strikes most women will look to men to save them. That's just a fact. Period. So I don't know why it's such a huge issue when that's shown on TV & movies.

Now, if she also manages to save herself (or is saved by another woman) ... that's amazing too! But I'm not going to rip into the fl just because she's a damsel in distress in need of rescue from a man.

If she's a dumb damsel in distress, though, that's another story.
I will get annoyed with a female lead who, if there's a dangerous situation and the ml is trying to fight off the bad guys, & all she does is stand there and cry and call out his name. No, girl, FIND something to whack the bad guy with! Help the ML in some way ... don't just stand there while the man you claim to love is getting his ass beat. I don't think many woman in real life would do that!

Or like the FL in Oh My Ghostess, who for the first several episodes did absolutely NOTHING but mope around and act like the world literally was closing in on her head. Sure, she was haunted by a ghost, but there was just no excuse for her to be so damn pathetic! I really hated that character.

Otherwise, though, I judge the FL based on her circumstances. If her behaviour *makes sense* given the set of circumstances she finds herself in, then even if she's a damn crybaby ... I can let it slide. She probably won't be on any favourite female lead list of mine anytime soon, mind you (ie, the heroine in Cruel Romance), but I'm not going to let it bother me or ruin my enjoyment of the drama.

I tend to be more repelled by the actors who play the characters, rather than the character themselves.

And this is exactly why I never complain about female leads ... or even male leads for that matter. Because it's all about context.

If I'm able to understand the logic behind the character's behaviour then I'm good (which is why the fl character in AOHY didn't really bother me). I don't have to agree with them, but if I'm able to see the world from their perspective, which leads them to act the way they do ... then no judgement from me.

For eg, in Another Oh Hæ Young, the ml inadvertently ruined someone else's life. It all started out with him trying to pull what was intended to be a harmless stunt on this person. However, the stunt backfired and caused severe consequences for the other person.

Do I hate on the ML in that situation, when I knew his intention was never to harm anyone in the first place? He never anticipated that what happened could be an outcome. How many times have that happened in real life? You plan something & it totally goes south.

Moreover, it wasn't so much that what the ml did that directly harmed the other person. The ml's actions simply exposed the other person's shady dealings. If that other person was an honest person in the first place he/she would not have been affected by the ML's actions.

A lot of drama viewers are young people, often socially isolated otakus, with little life experience so sometimes when I listen to the arguments people lay for hating on a character, it is usually a reflection of their lived experience ... or lack thereof.

I didn't hate the ML because he made a terrible mistake. Shit happens, you know. What was important to me was that he realized what he did was F'ed up and apologized to the person he hurt. That's all he could do. He couldn't go back & change what happened.

But a lot of people on here, even some on this thread, dragged him something terrible.

Oh okay. Yeah, Soo Ji seemed cool in the episodes I saw. I like the actress because she normally chooses interesting, complex roles to play, even if her characters are sometimes unlikable or damn near crazy.

The main female lead, though, pissed me off with how she behaved with the ml. She was sooo passive aggressive. I can't stand people like her in real life so she particularly got under my skin.

I'm not saying the ml was perfect cuz that mf sure loved coming home to a spotless house & eating her food while keeping her at arm's length ... like she was his maid & sh*t, the guy had some nerve, really. BUT, you don't move into someone's place and try to take over because you caught feelings then get all huffy and spiteful when they try to set some boundaries. You just don't do that! It annoyed me because if the roles were reversed & the ml had done it, viewers would've ripped him apart.

After all, SHE was the one in love, not him ... why wouldn't he be annoyed that this woman whom he'd basically just met named his cat & showed up at his work unannounced acting like she's all wifed up? Then I heard how she treated him like trash at end and that was the last straw for me. I couldn't continue.

This woman was just the hallmark of victimhood from the first episode. First, she was a victim of her family's abuse, next she was a victim of work abuse, after that she was a victim of sexual assault, then they tried to make her into a victim of the ml just because he didn't want her overstepping her boundaries too early on in their relationship.

Look, I am aware many women do go through these societal hardships & I sympathize. I truly do, because hey ... woman here, I go through them too! But everyone goes through hardships. Everyone! What's interesting to me is that even with all their privileges, men go through shit at work, at home and other places too. However, we expect them to man up and deal with that shit, not to sit around & whine all day about how hard they have it. Nobody finds that attractive. Well, I don't find it attractive in women either. We don't get a pass just because we have a vagina, at least not in my book.

The main FL in Because This Is ... just loved wallowing in self-pity and I hated that about the character. She was NOT my kind of 'strong' at all, as most people on this site labelled her. She was an entitlement princess, passive aggressive to the 10th degree, whiny, petty, spiteful, selfish. I found nothing admirable about her.

Now if you compare her to Se-ri in CLOY who went through pretty much the same shit she did (except the attempted rape), totally different ball game. Se-ri had the strength to fight off her enemies with grace, class and wit ... all while looking like a million dollars. I completely rooted for her. When she found a good, charming man like Jung Hyuk, I felt like she totally deserved him as he deserved her.

Haha! And to think I tortured myself to watch the entire 20 episodes! My only defense is that I was new to dramaland at the time & didn't know better, but never again!