PrettyCarEye

I personally did NOT care for the main female lead in BTIMFL. In fact, she's the main reason I dropped it & that performance made me toy with the idea of blacklisting the actress. The character's sense of entitlement and victim mentality was so off the charts, I was about ready to throw my brand new computer out the damn window! I did like the other female lead who played the secretary, though. Too bad I didn't stick around to see how her character developed.

Yeah, I agree. Se-ri is sassy and confident without coming across as overbearing, entitled & witchy. She's sweet and vulnerable, and although she can hold her own in many situations, she doesn't pretend that she doesn't need a strong man like Jeong Hyuk to protect her (physically & emotionally) & to lean on. She's a well-balanced heroine and I liked that about her so much. Too bad the rest of the drama was somewhat of a dud (for me).

Definitely do not watch When A Man Loves then! I think that's where I saw her first and it was the first drama to make me realize I might be capable of murder.

I've only seen Cruel Romance & Another Oh Hæ Young. I don't recall either of them in much detail to agree or disagree with the OP. What I do remember is that the ml in Cruel Romance was something straight out of a romance novel. He was so dreamy, my undies involuntarily came off ... Lord Jesus have mercy on me!

However, I very very rarely complain about female leads, as is common on this site, because I'm not so preoccupied with how 'strong' the woman is. Dramas are fiction; I don't look for my role models on TV. As long as the woman isn't completely & totally pathetic, like in Oh My Ghostess (that's about the only time I really wanted to bitch slap some sense into the FL for mopping around, feeling sorry for herself!), I see her as a representative of most women in real life, in the circumstances she's presented with.

In real life, most women are not badasses. They're hot messes who shy away from the type of responsibility they demand from (good) men, put up with a lot of shit from (bad) men - can't tell you how many friends with deadbeat boyfriends who they refuse to dump I have. They make excuses, they whine all day and play the victim. They're damsels in distress looking for
a rich man to rescue them. Dramas just show the reality, ladies. I'm sorry, but it's true. Fight me.

Of course, there are also many exceptional, enterprising women (like Se-ri in CLOY), both in real life & dramas, and I love them, but they're the exception, not the rule.

As it relates to Another Oh Hæ Young, I feel the complete opposite of most people here (which is no surprise ... I very rarely concur with general drama audiences, particularly on MDL). I found the actress who played Oh Hæ Young ruined the character for me. In fact, this is the drama that landed her on my blacklist. I disliked her interpretation of the character, which came off to me as whiny & entitled with an atrocious victim-mentality. She repelled me completely. I felt that if another actress had played her I would have sympathized with her more. In spite of her, however, I enjoyed the drama to an extent because Eric is bæ and I loved the mature vibe and the hot, realistic kisses.

I get what you're saying & understand that that is what the drama probably wants to infer, but in the context of k-dramas, lovers rarely act like true lovers. Look at all the family dramas with married couples, they all act like roommates, even when they're happy & in love. Anyway, like I said I take your point, it's just the irony of it all that I find quite funny.

I love Yoo Ji Tæ, but wæ is the fl Lee Bo Young? I actually like her, she's a good actress, but NOT in romantic roles (she's always TOO cold & stiff in her interpretation of her character). I'mma have to wait and see how this turns out b4 I decide if I'm going to watch it!

"They have no chemistry and even when going to bed its like its late, im tired, we should go to sleep, ok go ahead, im finishing something, and then they sleep. There are no kisses or sexual relationships, which is weird since they are a married couple."

This is not so unusual, though, for a K-drama, is it? In most dramas, even when drama couples are supposedly madly in love there's barely any intimacy befitting such relationships, esp when a drama is more family orientated rather than pure romcom.

This is written by the same writer as Prison Playbook & has similar themes of friendship & slice of life moments. Prison Playbook had romance in it, so maybe this will too!

Even though I don't care for medical dramas, I'm also looking forward to watching this because I loved Prison Playbook so much! I'll wait until it airs though because I need to know how it ends & if there's romance.

Oppa, I like you even though your characters are always mostly a$$holes. Sængil chukahæ! :)

Honestly, if it wasn't for Ji Sung's phenomenal performance as multiple characters, HJE in that drama would have caused me to throw my computer out the window. Her character was sooooo annoying with all that screeching! And I also hated Park Seo Jun's role here, he was very annoying too!

I do plan to watch Memories of Alhambra ... I would have watched it long ago if the FL had been anyone but PSH. Anyway, I'm going to watch it because I really like Hyun Bin and I hear his character is more mature & interesting here, not like the innocent, juvenile characters he plays in CLOY & Hyde, Jekyll & Me. I want to see him in a more mature role for once!

I also kinda like the writer, who also wrote Nine. I see we both gave that drama a 9. Yeah, I remember enjoying 9, it kept me on the edge of my seat & had a good balance of romance & suspense. I did not like the FL in Nine either (she is also another notoriously horrible on-screen kisser). But, overall, the drama left a good impression. So for Hyun Bin & the writer, I'm willing to bite the bullet & tolerate PSH and her painfully horrible kissing for 16 episodes (God save me).

Oh, I've never seen any Park Hye Ryun dramas and none really strike my fancy. I may keep an eye out for StartUp. Sounds like it could be drama I could enjoy. If the kisses are good, I'll watch it! haha

I work in the film industry part time, so film & TV productions fascinate me. I know a couple of people who work in the entertainment industry in Korea, and they are the ones who told me that drama writers are often more powerful than the director on drama sets. That was fascinating for me because in the West, the opposite is true.

I read a lot of Western movie scripts, but I've never tried to read a Korean script, mostly because of the language. But sometimes when you watch behind the scenes footage you get a glimpse of the script as the actors are reading it. While I don't understand everything (my reading level in Korean is still basic), I do notice it is structured differently. Based on some interviews I've read & table readings for new dramas, some drama writers are more detailed than others. It's a very individual thing, as is art in general.

I guess you must like W, since you not only read the script, you even name yourself after the drama too! Is it THAT good? lol

The actors in Queen In-Hyun's Man became a couple after the drama wrapped, not while they were filming. So you can't say their realistic kissing was because they were a couple. :)

"I see they're fake french-kiss.
They play a little with the lips.
But there's no tongue !!! :p"

Which drama are you referring to with the above comment?

The kiss in the link you sent is just okay to me. A little too tame. These type of kisses are more to my taste, but might be more scandalous for you! ;p

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAKfruB9cLk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FzPE9KmP6M
(contains subs & mild spoilers, but nothing that will ruin the show for you)

What I so so loved about the couple in the second clip was how natural & free together & with each other they were. There was no cringey awkwardness, they were affectionate and sweet to each other at all the right moments. They kissed and hugged each other spontaneously just like real couples do! They made love, they loved hanging off each other. THIS is how it should be done in ALL dramas! Very realistic, but still within the frame of modesty! :)

You From Another Star was one of my early dramas too, which is perhaps one reason I enjoyed it more than it actually warrants. I remember liking the actors & comedy, but found the romance tepid and uninteresting. Pretty much the same as with CLOY ... which goes to further prove that Park Ji Eun's dramas & I don't get along. I've been contemplating watching Legend of the Deep Blue Sea, but now I finally have enough information to know that it is a drama I probably won't enjoy.

When it comes to PSH, a lot of people say the same as you. She's a good actress, the way she kisses doesn't matter, shouldn't matter!

Well, doing a proper kiss given the circumstances of her character is a part of making the character/scene believable, is it not? She was wholly incapable of doing that in pretty much EVERY drama I've seen her in. She also cries 'prettily' rather than realistically. Again, she's one of those actors who are more preoccupied with looking good on screen than rendering the truest depiction of the character. And to me, that is not good acting. This is the major reason why I avoid her stuff, not just because of the dreadful kissing.

Wait, so you think Son Je Yin is unattractive? Interesting, I guess beauty is indeed in the eyes of the beholder. While she may not be a great beauty, she's certainly pretty. To me, at least.

I do agree with you that Hwang Jung Eun overacts something terrible, and nowhere does she overact more than in Kill Me, Heal Me. I found her tolerable in Secret.

My favourite Korean actors are non-mainstream, and that's probably why they're good. Instead of chasing celebrity they're focused on their craft & are true artists. They are Jeon Do Yeon & Cho Yeo Jung. For me these two ladies put on sensational performances every time, esp the former.

Yes, I get what you're saying about mood & tone. And I agree with you. Dramas, and certainly K-dramas, do follow a strict formula and usually romcoms are very glossy & artificial.

Still even in artificial, fairy tale K-dramas, people kiss for real! :) Check out dramas like Devilish Joy, What's Up With Secretary Kim, Her Private Life etc

You say you don't think there will be any french kissing in Asian dramas ... well, I think you're misinformed, because french kissing already occur in Asian dramas. You just may not be aware that they exist. From your list, I see you drop quite a few of them.

I've already given you some examples of dramas where you'll see REAL kissing ... as in 'french' kissing. Queen In-Hyun's Man, which I noticed you watched and completed and gave a high score, had some really nice, realistic kissing, esp at the end. Jealousy Incarnate had real kissing AND a bed scene to boot.

Where there is no real kissing, I wish the 'modest kiss' that many dramas tend to go for was indeed more natural & less awkward looking. On that, we definitely agree. I don't need to have a deep, passionate kiss in every drama. I guess what I really dislike is when the intimacy between the characters is super awkward & cringey. That's when I get cranky & write long posts of complaint about the issue, as I've done here! :)

By the way, what dramas did Park Hye Ryun write? I did a search but didn't find anything.

What's Wrong With Secretary Kim, Her Private Life, Queen In-Hyun's Man, Jealousy Incarnate etc ... can be classified as romcoms or at most, dramedies (in the case of Jealousy Incarnate mostly). I don't think its the genre that's the problem ... it's the showrunners. Unlike in the West, drama writers play a significant role in the development of the drama and what is rendered on screen. They sometimes hold more power than the director. They are the ones who dictate how the actors should act out the scene while the director mostly focuses on the technical side of the production. Often times the writers go for the innocent/juvenile spiel. Writers like Hong Sisters & Park Ji Eun are known for this.

Kim Eun Sook & Noh Hee Kyung (writer of It's Okay, That's Love, which you dropped), on the other hand, prefer to have their characters act more maturely overall.

Another aspect is that some actors (particularly female ones) don't like doing on-screen intimacy because they want to maintain a certain image. So they have it in their contracts that they will not do 'french' kissing and or bed scenes, for example. Which is why you get people like Park Shin Hye who ruin every kiss scene she participates in. lol

Perhaps if you have a preference for these type of cliches settings, you're not bothered and it seems you do. I, on the other hand, want things to be more progressive when it comes to intimacy. Again, I don't mean very explicit scenes (which wouldn't be allowed on broadcast TV anyway), but behaviour & action that's more realistic to people who are really in love. More touches, more hugs, more kisses ... if we get a bed scene, I won't complain, but its not mandatory for me. And most importantly that these happen when they should happen. It's the worst feeling when you have a scene where you know the characters should kiss & they don't! Instead they just stand there, staring beseechingly at each other! Grrrrrr.... :/

Ahjussi, I know, right? The thing with Seri is that we know that she puts on a tough front to protect herself and that while she dated, she never actually let anyone in. I felt like she was innocent in the love department, but her flirtatious & extroverted nature made her seem more experienced than she actually is. However, she is over 30 so that fact that every time Jung Hyuk kissed her she'd freeze up & act surprised ... why! The man is the love of her life! lol Doesn't make sense that she'd act so coy every time he tries to be intimate with her.

As for Jung Hyuk, I totally agree with you. His character was particularly infantilized & it was frustrating to watch because this is the second drama in a short period of time that I've seen Hyun Bin having to play this innocent, juvenile character that doesn't match his image at all. I also feel that even if JH is the type of guy to focus on work & not get distracted by women, these type of men are also the type to drop everything they were previously occupied with when they finally meet a woman they truly love. The way Jung Hyuk is portrayed to love Se-ri, there's no way he wouldn't want to be intimate with her - kiss her, hold her, make love to her - even though he's a gentleman who has the utmost respect for her.

It is not believable that he should be so devoid of sexuality he's almost a virgin. That's so ridiculous to even contemplate. I mean seriously there's absolutely nothing virginal about Jung Hyuk. It's difficult for me to believe that he got to his age and has never had a woman - even casually - before he met Se-ri. He spent time abroad, he's a wealthy, young, handsome, healthy man in his prime ... a military man at that. Those Swizz girls would have certainly been falling all over him & I'm not sure a young, red blooded man like him would have no reason to say no. Yet this drama would have us believe he's a virgin. I mean, even if he was a virgin, he probably would not ACT like one in front of Seri, realistically. He's too stoic & prideful.

Also I don't think a kiss scene should be 'well prepared'. That's the problem with a lot of kiss scenes in Asian dramas ... they're TOO prepared, too orchestrated. For me, what creates a 'strong aesthetic rendering' as you put it, what brings out the feels as I put it ... is the spontaneity of touch, being intimate at the right moments in the right way (like in It's Okay, That's Love). In that drama, the characters kiss when they should kiss & for real; the characters make love when it's appropriate & so on. There were sooo many scenes in CLOY where it was most natural and realistic for the characters to be intimate in some way ... and nothing happened. They just stared at each other with a gulf course of space between them.

You know if I want to be watching a 1960s kiss scene, I know where to find those. However, in 2020, watching a 2020 drama about a 2020 couple, I want to see 2020 intimacy. No, that doesn't mean explicit sexual scenes or anything of the sort, but REAL kissing in those scenes & moments its most natural & realistic for the characters to do so.

"When the characters experience such a kiss, the viewer may consider it equivalent to a more adult moment of intimacy. The meaning is the same. It doesn't matter to go any further."

The way you word your comment, in particular the excerpt above, make it sound like we have never gotten a real kiss scene or even bed scenes in an Asian drama and that's just totally not true, as I'm sure you very well know.

Again, with respect, I've heard this argument before and it gets kind of old. This is not a East vs West thing. I do not need to be schooled in cultural differences when it comes to modesty or sexuality on Asian TV screens. I am fully aware. I have lived & worked in Asia. In fact, I still spend quite a bit of time there now & again. I know what is acceptable on TV and what isn't. Therefore, what I'm asking for is not outside the scope of what is possible or acceptable.

I am not asking for American style sexuality on TV screens. I am asking for a less overused & cliche portrayal of romantic interactions and intimacy, which many many dramas have given us, ie Another Miss Oh, It's Okay That's Love, What's Up With Secretary Kim, One Spring Night, Something in the Rain, Jealousy Incarnate & the list goes on.

All of these are Asian/Korean dramas that manage to not infantilize their characters. Where they kiss for real AND at the right moments. These dramas portray a realistic development of the character's intimate relationship, rather than totally 'desexualize' them to the point where they're behaving like children like in CLOY.

I just don't think a romance drama is effective when there's no realistic intimacy between the characters. It's like having a horror movie with no horror or a crime drama with no crime. It doesn't make any sense!

We actually agree on a lot. I just don't agree that KES's dramas are more childish than Park Ji Eun's. I concede that they might be cheesier, but not more childish. CLOY kinda proves that.

Anyway, I'm with you on her latest dramas. I haven't enjoyed a KES drama in a long time either. That's why I'm cautiously hoping The King won't be a huge disappointment. With KES I never get the full package of great casting & good story. It's either one or the other. I'm satisfied with the casting, but I'm not optimistic about the story. I didn't even bother to watch Descendants of the Sun (don't like the cast) & Mr. Sunshine (not interested in the story). I really really loved Lovers & City Hall, just about the only time story & cast kinda worked for me in a KES drama. I enjoyed A Gentleman's Dignity, but wasn't a major fan of the cast.

Lovers in Prague was okay, but the love triangle overstayed its welcome & ruined the drama for me. It was in KES's early days of drama writing so she was still trying to find her footing & it showed in that drama. Secret Garden was okay, I like Hyun Bin - he's my bæ - but I can't stand Ha Ji Won so the fact that she was FL decreased my enjoyment. I hated Heirs. Aside from the fact that PSH ruins every drama she's in because of her horrible kissing (I mean, things like that are important in a *romantic* drama), the story was total crap. The drama must have been written by KES's apprentice because I could not detect ANY of her usual hallmarks.

I totally agree with you that Goblin was super boring. It literally took me 6 months to finish. I started it January 2019 and didn't complete the final episode until June 2019. Here I loved the cast, but the story wasn't well thought out, imo. I didn't like how she basically made the FL a kid for 3/4 of the drama, while the ML was an adult man longing/lusting for her. It felt too creepy.

Your comment about lack of dramatic impact in CLOY is spot on! There's a Chinese drama called Too Late To Say I Love You that dealt with a circumstance of lovers being separated by war, and the dramatic tension in that drama was through the roof. The stakes were very high. Every time the lovers were together you felt their desperation and longing for each other, their grief of having to separate. We the audience never know if the General (the ML) will come back alive each time he goes to the battle field etc. It just felt more real, like a punch in the gut. That drama had a lot of other problems, but when it came to that particular aspect, it was amazing!

I usually do a thorough investigation of romance dramas before I watch them so going in, I was aware Park Ji Eun is one of those writers who infantilizes her characters, but I was hoping that given the situation & circumstances the characters find themselves in, she'd go another route. Because it's totally possible to maintain 'blockbuster' appeal & still be realistic in terms of drama & skinship. Other dramas have done it - Secretary Kim, It's Okay, That's Love etc

The romance is exactly the type I hate! I understand why it might seem cute and swoony to teenagers & young adults, but for me ... I'm way too grown. All the silly staring, them not actually touching & kissing/being intimate when it was most natural to do so given their supposedly 'fated' love story & circumstances was very disappointing and boring to me.

After all, I would think most people in their situation would probably be more desperate to cling onto, kiss, hug, make love to each other, esp when they're forced to separate by war. Instead, these two people in their 30s were literally afraid to touch each other, just stood around mooning at each other like lovestruck teenagers. MEH! Boring ...

As for this drama, I'd be okay with cheesy & romantic as long as it is not innocent & childish. I really really hope the characters will act their age & give us some real kisses and realistic intimacy.

Anyway, you're right. I did win! Haha, I had totally forgotten about it. Thanks for being gracious enough to remind me to punish you! ;)
I had a good punishment in mind when I made the bet, but I've forgotten what it is. Give me a few hours to recall & I'll get back to you! :)

No disrespect, but I see only one completed KES drama on your list (& one of her worst, I might add). You dropped others. I don't know how qualified you are then to make that determination. Moreover, aside from The Heirs where the characters were high schoolers & the early episodes of Goblin (where the FL was a high school student as well) ... KES doesn't usually infantilize her characters to the extent of CLOY. Instead of all the juvenile, silly stuff, there's usually a lot of flirtatious banter & sexual tension between her characters, which is exactly how adults who are on the verge of falling in love behave. I know because I've watched 7 of her dramas; I know her style and patterns.

In CLOY, Seri & Jeong Hyuk's romance was boring and childish because the screenwriter & director had these grown 30 somethings behaving like sheltered teenagers. Their kisses were fake, there were no REAL sweet, romantic moments. Just a lot of stupid staring into each other's eyes. I am literally forcing myself to watch the last 2 episodes.

I guess the showrunners did that not to scandalize North Korean viewers (despite their efforts, K-dramas are apparently very popular over there). They are even more repressed & conservative than the South. For me, though, CLOY was horrible viewing. It had a lot of potential but totally dropped the ball on so many levels. It was the same with You From Another Star, but the romance in that drama was much better done than in CLOY, imo. And that's not saying much because I remember not being particularly impressed when I watched that drama either. There was a lot of awkwardness & fake intimacy there too. I don't think I'll be watching anymore of this writer's dramas.