Shiagi

How on Earth did this escape me knowing about?! Like they didn't do much promoting or what? The only clue I got that this ever existed was from the end of Not me ep 14!

They have come a long way since the awkwardness in Puppy Honey. They started to turn things around in Theory of Love and now Off is really coming into his own.

Also when I said written by women for women, I meant historically this is how BL was born so you may not feel it is written for women by women (although many of the tropes are evident of that fact) but it is now something that everyone can enjoy when there wasn't a lot of dramas for the LGBTQ+ community just a few years ago compared to today. But saying that the marketing is catered to female teens and young adults more so than the LGBTQ+ community (you just have to look at how GMMTV markets and promotes and hires, and the stories they tell). I have to say though this is slowly changing and will change as more people demand equality and fair treatment of all LGBTQ+ characters in these dramas because trans people often get a raw deal, as do people of darker complexion in these stories and others. There is definitely less rape and forceful interactions these days and now we get happy endings whereas just a few years ago, the norm was sad endings in LGBTQ+ stories. I hope with the popularity of BL and LGBTQ+ stories and sensitivity, these countries will also become more accepting of these communities as so many of them are still incredibly conservative. One day we may not even need separate genres and having a mixed cast of characters will be completely ubiquitous with mainstream media for all as it is starting to be in the west.

It would be interesting to know what you consider BL and LGBTQ+ stories. Back in the day I watched Grey Rainbow which I class as LGBTQ+ and not BL. It left me traumatised (it was a fantastic story but incredible sad). A lot of independent Japanese productions I also class as LGBTQ+ rather than BL and similarly with Korean offerings from production companies like Strongberry are LGBTQ+ rather than BL.
Don't get me wrong, these days BL is becoming more in line with reality and LGBTQ+ issues so the lines will become more blurred, but I also see a difference between BL stories and LGBTQ+ stories therefore I know there are other Asian stories that are not BL but more LGBTQ+, but those stories seem to be less main stream and less promoted and BL is more of a powerhouse in this sector of media especially coming from GMMTV who are pushing out stories without a care in the world and creating a big industry around BL specifically even though it has been documented that the actors and those behind the scenes can be quite homophobic and insensitive and uncomfortable with the material. But there seem to be other up and coming production companies now that are cashing in on BL and the competition will hopefully force writers to find more realistic and less toxic story lines for everyone in the story, not just the boys because representation of LGBTQ+ and females in these storylines are often reduces to comedic relief and dramafication.

There is a current show You're My Sky that I started watching as a BL but now I think I would class it as LGBTQ+ because if the style of production and the story telling however, it blurs the lines between BL and LGBTQ+ genre for the way it respectfully treats all its LGBTQ+ characters, female characters and where they place the focus not on the romance but on the development of individual characters. I would also class Gaya Sa Pelicula as LGBTQ+ and not BL.

I'm just going to patiently wait for @Oops Im an alien subs on billibi because they are always on point and good quality video and subs.

I don't believe this show is that basic as to "villianise" Thorn at all. This isn't a black and white story about villains and heroes. This is a growing pains type of drama and character exploration. What they are portraying are the emotional turmoil and decisions he has to make for himself in order to discover what he really wants rather than putting his all and everything into Fah and losing him. This is a journey he had to go on of self discovery. Even his coach understood his frustrations and agony because it is a common feeling of desperation for a sports person who is also going through a lot of emotional baggage. This show is really putting the effort in on how some people react in certain situations and they did it by still staying true to the foundation of the character. Thorn was so desperate to regain his sense of self-worth that he put his faith into a dubious person who gave him hope but led him down a path against his true nature. He believed he was doing the right thing for himself. We all go through trials and tribulations - that does not make us villains. That just makes us human. Thus we were always meant to understand him because his journey is our journey.

Yes this is why I love this show. It's a very mature take on relationships, life, decisions and growing up and a very refreshing offering from the BLs that are all romance, fluffy, simple, soft filters that make everyone beautiful and the problems characters face are really just surface level stuff. There is nothing wrong with fluffy romance, but its nice to have something real and gritty and reminding us that there are mature decisions to make about real problems and the choice we make affect ourselves as well as others and how to pick ourselves up and try again.

No I hadn't seems like an interesting story line. I wonder if we will even get half of that though in the tv series or if they will change it. Seems like enough for a series of its own. Probably more interesting than the current main leads lol. I will have to hunt down an English translation one day of the two novels.

Yes I see some comments referring to the novel and if it wasn't for these comments here I would probably be even more confused. But imagine all those people who have no idea about the novel or seeing the comments. The show itself should make it clearer rather than relying on fans to clarify the relationship status. They have already alluded to his guilt about the past but that could easily be the same whether they are in a relationship or not. They don't hold hands, they don't do anything "coupley". At the moment Yi just seems like a big brother or carer at best and at worst an abusive emotionally manipulating "boyfriend".

It is a BL so they are living in an alternate universe because in reality and if it were a real LGBTQ+ story than this would not happen obvs for many reasons as well as the 21st century. I think the writers just saw a storyline that hasn't been done before yet in BL and rolled with it and tried to find a reason why it would happen and retrofit it in the narrative. It is indeed a novel situation but I am not sure if I am happy with the execution because the pacing of this show is so off at the moment. I haven't read the book so I am not sure if it follows the same reasoning for the betrothal in the book. But in the series itself they mentioned several times that it wasn't a real betrothal and it could be broken anytime. They grandparents were just having a bit of fun. It just so happens that both guy are in love with each other but don't know how the other feels for various reasons yet to be revealed.

I think New was the least annoying so far from singers on BL series shows (I still couldn't watch it even though I really liked the song) but I also expect there is a lot of vocal correction as is so popular to use these days even with big pop stars around the world. The one Thai singer that I have never felt I needed to fast forward through so far has been Jeff in Ingredients BL series. That's real talent right there and not cringey at all.
However, getting BL stars to sing and do multiple tricks is another money generating ploy to cash in on the success of BL. It is quite an interesting industry engine, how BL production companies have cashed in and driven this genre. I am not sure whether it is helping LGBTQ+ causes or damaging it though. Jury is still out. However the actors are garnering a lot of success in their careers for it, thus is brings in much more fresh talent into the industry and new storylines as its a good way to get famous quick.

Yes, this is it. I knew this but it's easy to forget that these shows are set in a different culture and though stories have progress, there are stills strong social expectations when it comes to career and education. You explained it well.

They didn't change any of the furniture or anything on set lol.

I don't see BL series as LGBTQ+ because they often live in a world of their own with things that are often not factual about real LGBTQ+ concerns etc. and have their own tropes. Even the history and where BL comes from is miles from LGBTQ+ stuff. It is only in the last 2 years that you would even hear anyone in a BL show say the word gay or refer to themselves as gay because it really wasn't a thing in BL. Categorising people was not part of the world. It is all about love without gender. So you love whoever you love and doesn't mean you are necessarily gay. Thus a lot of BL characters have a Tsundere lead and softer more feminine male roles against him and thus the 'husband and wife' saying because historically and mostly, BL is written by women for women. Even all these shows are still written for girls and even the fan service is catered to girls. It is such a huge market strangely which makes it a very lucrative genre for actors to get their big breaks in. I am not saying it is right, and these days BL is aligning more with LGBTQ concerns, but the shows are hugely market to young women and teen girls rather than the LGBTQ+ community, though there is more and more overlap as BL becomes more and more sensitive to LGBTQ+ concerns.

I don't see BL series as LGBTQ+ because they often live in a world of their own with things that are often not factual about real LGBTQ+ concerns etc. and have their own tropes. Even the history and where BL comes from is miles from LGBTQ+ stuff.

Yeah the SL couple - I really don't understand the foundation of their relationship from what this show has provided so far. Are they in a "relationship" or are they just friends? Also, this relationship so far is uncomfortable to watch because it is portraying it as if it is an abusive relationship almost. Its so strange and off. I hope it clarifies it soon.

I know what you mean. It feels like nothing much happens every episode. So much unnecessary scenes that are also quite drawn out. Here's me thinking we almost at the end of the series then realise its only been 5 episode and still have a long way to go. Sigh. I hope the pace picks up soon. I am still gonna watch though and see how things go.

I haven't seen Baker Boys yet but it looks like the house from Don't Say No too.

Yes I have finished it and I still think the same. It's not great and it's also not a bad show. I don't rate BLs on kisses alone. I am not that kind of BL fan. lol I have also seen better kisses though, but it wasn't bad either. Had some sweet moments, but perhaps a longer run and a more fleshed out story would have filled in some of the gaps, especially with the side characters.

lol so true. It is satisfactory. Unremarkable even. But it tastes ok and a little sweet in places. That is it.