SD1D Enthusiast

Yeah honestly, the male fragile ego that needs to be placated and if it's not, it resorts to threats and trying to trample over the woman....that pattern is already nauseatingly familiar in real life, why do they have to bring that in to fantasy as well? If I wanted to watch men with inferiority complexes trying to control women, I would go and watch Andrew Tate.

Hey sis, no need to be so hostile because of my opinion. I'm not here looking for advice on healthy relationship either. Trust me, I have plenty of problematic ships with morally grey MLs. What I AM here for is a strong female lead and I personally find it nauseating whenever cdramas take that strong female lead but then show her slowly being worn down again and again by a man who rebukes her, threatens her, and wears down on her will.

I don't care if a ML is a mass murderer or psychopath, but I DO care if he uses those same threatening tactics to try and infringe on the FL's will and independence. I watch these dramas for the female lead's character first and foremost so I will always be against her sacrificing her dignity and desires to sooth a man's fragile ego.

If they had kept it the same as the novel, probably no one would root for XW lol, but to me I always thought this story was more about JXN and her journey rather than the love interests, so the changes are meh to me.

I really want a spin off of their life as empress and minister too where she doesn't die, remains as empress, and saves ZZ from the prison herself. JXN imo was the most intriguing and interesting when she was the empress and we rarely see powerful female characters like that.

I didn't find that funny honestly. I'm real sick of MLs straight up threatening FLs lives and independence, and dramas downplaying that as silly little jealousy.

Totally disagree because you ignore the fact that just because she no longer is lusting for power and in the palace, it doesn't mean she herself doesn't still yearn for peace. She is still the same person who experienced all of that chaos and violence and trauma at the hands of other men. Those expeiences don't just disappear, they become a part of her. In fact, her memories and rebirth make it MORE likely for her to want to spend the rest of her days with him.

Her current self is only what it is right now in major part to Zhang Zhe and the effect his presence had in her life. And just because he isn't ambitious for power, doesn't mean that he would restrict her and keep her at home under his control (on the other hand, our other male lead HAS tried to control everything from her actions to her emotions, so this feels like projection). ZZ has never tried to control her in both the past and present lives so this assumption just seems like a straw man fallacy. It would be the exact opposite. If they had a chance to be together without all of the tragedy, he would support in her dreams and hopes and whatever she'd like to pursue.

So we are nearing the end of Zhang Zhe and JXN's story and some cnetz have already pointed out that it seems they have changed quite a bit in their story to tone down the romance and might take out scenes, so I wanted to post some quotes from the book here just in case they never see the light of day in the drama.

People have said here that they think Zhang Zhe would not love JXN with her flaws, but when JXN says that she is not a good person to Zhang Zhe, he says:

"There are many girls with better intentions than you in the world, but I don't love them, and I don't want to marry them." He loved her and fell in love when she was at her very worst; to her she was a "vibrant flame" that he felt drawn to, she made him feel alive in a way he never had before.

Yet he has maintained distance between them in this life, too afraid to hurt her:

"My dear, I am also afraid. I am afraid that you will know that the person in front of you is Zhang Zhe from the previous life."

When she tries to blame herself for his ending and says:
"It was me who threatened you and forced you to go astray and ruined your reputation for half a lifetime. It's all my fault...You should hate me."

He says:
"How can I hate you? I am the one who is unfaithful and unfilial; I am the one who loves you, but I am the one who harms you. In the end, I have no choice but to hate myself."

"My dear, how can you say that I, Zhang Zhe, am so good? He was obsessed, abandoned his principles, ignored the law, and became a mediocre and ignorant ordinary person in this chaotic world.....After all, it was Zhang Zhe who was weak-minded and failed to stick to his original intention. He wavered in his beliefs and violated his principles. Don't think about him anymore, he is just a coward who dares not love anymore, he is not worth your love.""

"But your Majesty, you are the one I want to help even if I destroy myself."
"My dear, for you, it was worth it."

In regards to his feelings towards JXN he tells Xie Wei:

"I respect her and I love her dearly."

When ZZ tries to imply that she cares for him because of feeling indebted, she says:

"I belong to you, not because you saved me and protected me, not because of guilt, but because I fell in love with you at first sight."

Some of her inner thoughts about Zhang Zhe:

"My heart is set on the bright moon."
"His embrace was the warmth that Jiang Xuening coveted most."
"For her, Zhang Zhe is the warmth on a snowy day, a bright lamp in a dark room, and a boat to cross the river."
"As long as he stood here, standing in front of her, all the troubles and dangers in the world seemed to suddenly disappear, leaving only a peaceful tranquility."
"She doesn’t like anyone else when Zhang Zhe is around."

Jiang Xuening said: "Master Zhang, you are so kind, how can I ever forget you?"
Zhang Zhe replied: "Meet someone better."
Jiang Xuening felt aggrieved: "You are lying to me, there is no one better than you."

Oh there's so much more but this comment is already long enough. Even if you don't ship them, I think we can all appreciate how beautiful their love for each other is.

This is why the only rebirth stories I like are ones where the FL and ML are equal and have a relationship of mutual respect. The controlling scheming ML thing stops being sexy and gets old real fast once you've read the same thing a million times. Probably why Rebirth of Star General is my all time favorite.

Yes, the thing I like about Zhang Zhe is that he has rigid standards, but he holds himself to them first and foremost. He never actually tried to change JXN or even make her a better person, she decided that on her own and that's how change should come; for yourself, from your own heart, not from coercion and pressure. I especially like that the woman he fell in love with was precisely the so called evil empress, and that he loved her flaws and all when she was at the height of her bad reputation. I think that may be why my top ship is really ZZ and JXN in the first life. Her as empress going after what she wants and not succumbing to anyone was unrivalled.

On the contrary, Yan Lin despised her once she abandoned him for power and then tried to disgrace her in the past life. XW imprisoned her in the past life, and in the second life he constantly rebukes her like he's her god damn father and tries to control not only her actions, but her emotions, trying to shame her for them. It's just cowardly and lame to me. I'd rather JXN live alone for the rest of her life without bending to that kind of pressure, but we all know what happens in stories like these.

Same, I've been holding back from responding to the comments here last few days bc the internalized misogyny is crazy. Tbh I do have a clear bias towards Zhang Zhe, but it's really only because he's the only man here who has actually shown respect towards FL. I would be just as happy having her end up with no one, but I can't stand her being with men who have degraded her, tried to control her, and bind her.

Like yeah it's fictional and I love my toxic MLs occasionally too, but I can rarely stand the lack of respect especially when the FL is strong and independent, then we watch as her will is eroded and it's seen as "romantic."

it is male toxic masculinity, speak on it sister

god I had completely forgotten that and now my stomach turns thinking about it. he literally sexually assaulted her and "wore her down" until she accepted him 🤢

I agree with you and honestly I think it is a fact because it's pretty clear to me in the novel. If ZZ hadn't rejected her, she would never even look at XW

"But ZZ loved empress(previous life)with her all evilness and imperfections. If he is reincarnated just like her, he is perfectly aware of how she was."

EXACTLY. So many people ignore this and act like he can't like her true self, when he fell in love with her WORST self and loved her despite those flaws. Plus, he never ever tried to change her. '

In fact, it was she, who wanted to be a better person after seeing the way he lived and wanting to be more like him, wanting to change for herself.

XW is not like that. He is too restrictive, always trying to lecture and reprimand her and gives her no respect.

I think unfortunately it's just something common with these kinds of stories....even chinese novels have scores and scores of rapey and abusive MLs that get praised to heaven and it's like it became a norm to the people consuming those stories

applause for that last sentence! thank you!

I think that what he said about morality and past mistakes wasn't so much about her but about HIMSELF. He is one of the few and rare people in this world who holds himself to the same strict standards he preaches and in his last life, he committed a wrong. Basically, he's saying that even though he had a reason to do it, it doesn't justify what he did or erase the blood from his hands. (Her ally that he helped save was someone who had done actual crimes to others and was responsible for deaths).

I find that quite refreshing honestly. He acknowledges that "love" can't excuse his actions. In other dramas, you'd have MLs slaughtering clans for the sake of love and revenge or whatnot, with their crimes being swept under the rug.

My perfect ending tbh is JXN realizing she's better suited to rule this messed up country than all these psychos and having her own lil harem if she so wishes. the romance atp is secondary, but empress JXN had such a ferocity to her that's absent in her 2nd life and I miss it.

I know Xie Wei is the ML here and ppl are fans of the actor so they'll glorify everything he does, but some of the comments belittling his abusive behaviour and the effect it's had on FL are mind boggling.

What the hell sis....belittling violence against women is not a cute look. And YES, both physical, mental, and emotional abuse is VIOLENCE, all of which XW has done to her at one point or another.

honestly, it really annoys me the way some people here are so eager to put down JXN and shit on her and her emotions just because she isn't giving their favorite male character attention? I've seen people shit on her for not forgiving Yan Lin and giving him a chance despite her still having memories of him raping her. I've seen people whine that she's ungrateful, stupid, and doesn't deserve Xie Wei because she dares not to be in love with the person who imprisoned her and who she believes wanted her dead in the past life.

Like, at the end of the day, JXN went through a shit ton of trauma directly at the hands of 2 of the MLs and that includes the person who she ends up with. I have my own reservations and critiques about that choice and the message it sends, but focusing solely on JXN and the reactions to her just learning to live again for herself, scream misogyny. This is a female centric rebirth story above all else.

?? wrong on so many levels damn