Azure, I appreciate what you share. Every time there's something to surprise me:
[ As we explore this world further, we will see more and more things that go beyond the good and evil, transcending duality, ultimately letting go of attachments, recognizing their impermanence, and embracing Emptiness (Śūnyatā) to end the Cycle of Rebirth (Saṃsāra) and attain Liberation (Nirvana).
What truly heals you is never time but understanding; nothing can be taken away or retained, only Karma stays with us. Causality seldom forgives. Regardless of whether others love him or not, whether someone is right or wrong, Tang Lici loves everyone, simply loving everything, needing nothing in return, in this way, he becomes the compassion (Karuṇā) himself, the most primitive power in the universe. ] - You saw one step further than me on Karuṇā, and I greatly appreciate it.
SLY is a drama that will never end. I didn't know it, but it is the historical costumes C-drama I have been waiting for, for my entire life. And this isn't easy to say, when I know what I do.
In the wuxia genre, the pugilistic world (江湖) with its power struggles plus hypocrisy is a key theme in Jin Yong’s classic wuxia novels. However, this world does not exist without its solid anchoring of social values. “Whispers of Fate” is a rare drama strongly melding xuanhuan and wuxia genres that is unabashedly Chinese, so much so that the creative team makes classical literature evident in the concepts conveyed via the camerawork and fight choreography.
This isn’t going to be evident to non-mandarin speakers who never read or cannot read at least three sources providing the fundamental insight needed for “Whispers of Fate”.
Wuxia is not about men or women fighting in an epic martial arts world. In our chinese history and classical literature, Taoism, Buddhism and Confucianism are the Three Schools of Thought (三教), and the three schools of thought are the foundations of this drama, especially Confucianism.
SLY is heroism-focused and solidly displays the foundations of wuxia values, because the importance of brothers is emphasised in the four main relationships between Tang Lici and the four characters of Fang Zhou, Liu Yan, Shen Langhun and Chi Yun.
In my review, one of the first sentences I stated was, “An unusual protagonist with key themes of brotherhood, camaraderie and conflict are buoyed by a delicately-woven map of Taoism and Buddhism philosophy studded with Confucian elements.”
I also added near the end:
“Underpinning it all is this observation from《道德經 》:
「故有無相生，難易相成，長短相較，高下相傾，音聲相和，前後相隨。」”
《诗经》(Book of Odes) attributed to Confucius holds the worldview that would have applied to the Jianghu of Whispers of Fate, and Confucius was attributed as using《诗经》to teach morals and philosophy. To understand its importance, you must have a certain amount of awareness and understanding of the Analects of Confucius.
There is this anecdote in the Analects of Confucius about how Confucius viewed《诗经》whereby it goes that one day, his son was passing hurriedly through the Court and saw his father standing alone, lost in thought. Upon seeing his son, Confucius said, "Have you read the Odes?"
"Not yet" was his son's reply.
"Then," said Confucius, "if you do not learn the Odes, you will not be fit to converse with."
The poem《小雅·常棣》in《诗经》(Book of Odes) illustrates the fundamental importance of brotherhood, as per how the likes of Tang Lici, Shen Langhun and others in the pugilistic world would have viewed brotherhood as per the Five Bonds defined by Confucius.
Within the first two lines of that poem, it states “凡今之人，莫如兄弟” which means in this world, there are none closer and more worthy of being cherished than brothers (兄弟), and we see so many examples of brotherhood being celebrated and cherished throughout this drama. Wuxia is acts of chivalry as part of ties between brothers especially those who choose brothers not by blood, moral codes and martial arts. If you have martial arts in historical costumes without everything else, it’s just fighting and nothing to do with wuxia.
Virtues tied to brotherhood in various acts (such as acts of chivalry seen by Zhong Chunji saving A-Shui in episode 1) are the underlying themes for the Jianghu of this drama.
I also stated, “Ming Dynasty literature utilising Three Schools of Thought formed the basis of many weapon designs and concepts, especially sonic techniques of Tang Lici and Liu Yan.”
In another important classical literature source for Whispers for Fate,《溪山琴况》(Zither Theory of Mountain Streams) written by 徐上瀛 (Xu Shangying) is the masterpiece of a famous zither master in the late-Ming and early-Qing Dynasties. This is the basis of the sonic techniques for Liu Yan, Tang Lici, Fang Zhou and Hong-guniang, which has been heavily utilised for the battles. If you do not understand the Three Schools of Thought to a certain extent in Mandarin, you cannot appreciate this classical literature source.
The concepts of attaining "道法自然" and “高山流水”in playing the qin (zither) has its foundations in《道德经》that I quoted, to fully portray the aesthetic ideas of the qin. If you are a guzheng player like me or a guqin player, these concepts will be particularly appreciated.
"the string and finger unite, and the finger and tone unite" is the ideal.
"吾复求其和者三，曰弦与指合 ，指与音合，音与意合，而和至矣。"
[ The three ways I seek harmony: strings and fingers are in union, the fingers are in union with the sound, the sound is in union with the meaning, and harmony is perfected. ] - Disparate elements uniting as one in non-duality is grounded in Buddhism here.
Another section of the text by Xu Shangying goes "指法有重则有轻，如天地之有阴阳也；有迟则有速，如四时之有寒暑也。盖迟为速之 纲，速为迟之纪，当相间错而不离。"
[ In finger techniques if heaviness is present, so too is lightness, just as between heaven and earth exists yin and yang; if there is slowness. so too is quickness, just as in the four seasons there is cold and heat. Slowness is the measure for quickness, quickness is the context for slowness, they must be interspersed and not separated. ] - Taking small liberties with translation but it comes out better this way to capture the essence also from an English grammatical POV. This matches what I quoted from the famous philosophical work of Lao Zi, which is part of what I had to study growing up as a kid for Mandarin.
That paragraph is the holistic relationship pertaining to co-existence of duality in Taoism, not one to vanquish the other. Don’t forget the Confucian thinking pertaining to 中和 of having a holistic view of all possibilities while balancing disparate and/or diverse elements.
Tang Lici and Liu Yan are not simply playing with strings and waving their sleeves in beautiful scenery. The scenes of their musical battles appear to be framed and shot with all this in mind as per the cinematography and fight choreography, which is also why I mentioned in my review about the camerawork being specific.
Understanding at least the classical literature I have mentioned above is to have a very clear understanding of the rich emotional depth evident in this drama, woven into the screenplay and production process.
What has been shared in the relationships of Tang Lici with Fang Zhou, Liu Yan, Shen Langhun and Chi Yun, reciprocal and developed? You see everything about the ties of brothers chosen not by blood but by virtues, all beautifully fleshed out in joy and pain, kindness and heartbreak. What does Tang Lici care for, about the pugilistic world? Tang Lici's emotional core of 侠义 based on 三教 is demonstrated across the drama and becomes his key weapon to break the shackles of fate. Other pugilists such as the Sword Masters of the Central Plains Sword Alliance, the Yanmen sect etc, all demonstrate 侠义 by episode 32. 侠义 is essential to the wuxia genre.
I’m not thinking first and foremost of CP and romance, when I'm admiring how the Three Schools is amazingly incorporated in Whispers of Fate, and awed by how well the foundations of this drama has been carried out. Movies such as 1983’s “Zu: Warriors of The Magic Mountain” and 1993’s “Green Snake” require understanding of Mandarin plus the Three Schools plus a certain extent of Chinese culture and history, otherwise the basis and aesthetics of these iconic movies simply cannot be appreciated in its entirety and certain fundamentals are definitely overlooked.
Whispers of Fate falls in this very-Chinese category, which I am very thankful for. If someone is going to claim they see no wuxia in this drama, or “Mysterious Lotus Casebook” is wuxia but not Whispers of Fate, or why isn’t Tang Lici paired with someone otherwise he’s wasted due to unsatisfying romance in this drama because nothing else worthwhile seems to exist for this drama except the extent or lack of a “romance” between Tang Lici and A-Shui- My first unexpected reaction is to laugh, because it tells me a lot about ignorance in the opinion being proffered. I'm pretty sure you can find better views than mine, but you'll have to go on weibo for them.
I was just looking for you, wondering if I should tell you it dropped the first case, lol
The very important well-executed aspects of Season 4 (6 episodes in) are a perfect showcase for new viewers who consider it daunting to attempt to step into SToTD.
Mini-dramas and vertical dramas are money-spinners. And everybody is IC, investigative work unfolds naturally, suspense maintained, no political intrigues (those who didn't like S3 as much as S1 and S2 was because of the political intrigue). Very good for new viewers to dive in and enjoy the humour and plot, because the unfolding of who's who and the characters (good and bad and grey) are very well done from a narrative POV :)
Binging this as a mini-drama is easy. Season 4 as a mini-drama helps new viewers believe that binging earlier seasons in longform versions after this drama eg Season 1 will also be easy.
Absolutely gorgeous hues throughout day and night scenes, and compellingly paced! Happy to see 14 episodes have aired (halfway through episode 2 and partially cracking up at Su Wuming's situation, but sleep beckons). Looking forward to binging this!
I won't lie A'Shei was not as "useless" people seem to perceive her. She was every smart, seemed to understood…
The "romance" depends on who's watching. Some saw them having a romance, others saw no romance. Tang Lici's mostly-composed reactions in episode 33 (for example, from 33:46 to 34:15) and episode 35 can be interpreted either way, and it's never a good thing for a "romance" in a drama when that's the case.
Your reaction is remarkably unique and mature in nuancing about how you interpret romance here, because there were a lot of upset fans for one actress due to episodes 33 and 35, and they didn't sound anything like you.
Episode 19 was literally the most cringe-y thing ever, pertaining to lines from A-Shui. There were loopholes to accommodate A-Shui's presence in the drama, and here are various opinions from different viewers:
When we talk about love, it depends on what love we are referring to. Some viewers inferred that the love Tang Lici was most lacking and most needed was maternal (that's also in the unfinished novel before it was adapted for this drama). Others say romance was what helped him learn. If A-Shui was indeed supposed to teach him about romantic love, then the way things have turned out taught Tang Lici he doesn't need romantic love. What he does in episode 39 (38:25 to 38:47) caught me by surprise.
At the end of the day, your reaction confirms that the producers did a good job walking that thin line of pleasing all three factions :D
Yeah, I kind of agree with you. A Shui did get a little annoying in the show. I didn't hate her or anything, but…
Tang Lici's four main relationships are with Fang Zhou, Liu Yan, Shen Langhun and Chi Yun, which cements a Confucian element from one specific classical literature source about the importance of brotherhood amongst the Five Bonds.
When the first fifteen episodes aired, I at first defended A-Shui's inclusion. I thought she was bright, her indirect contributions were helpful- And then holes started appearing for her to be able show up at certain times and places in the drama. None of my offline friends support A-Shui's inclusion because they couldn't accept her portrayal as a female character being too cringe-y for them at times plus they didn't see the value of having her in the drama when certain storylines could have been strengthened without her.
There are viewers who believe there was romance, but there are viewers who also didn't see any romance between A-Shui and Tang Lici. It was the kind of "romance" that pleased the no-romance faction which if one puts it nicely, the producers walked a thin line to please all factions and hence led to the biggest complaints coming from fans of a certain actress about the disappointing outcome of Tang Lici having no CP.
Big👏👏👏🥳Never know there are comment sections for reviews....Amazing review, I have read it 3x now....Thank…
I can see why people who are completely oblivious of China's rich history and classical literature can only yammer about negligible romance and no CP being an unsatisfactory part of this drama. This drama will be great at showcasing and introducing the richness of almost 5000 years of China's literary wonders to the world, and helping with cultural ignorance.
I quoted a certain section of 《道德经》 in my main review as the underlying foundation (in traditional mandarin so Pytheos would enjoy my point), which is:
「故有無相生，難易相成，長短相較，高下相傾，音聲相和，前後相隨。」
In our chinese history of 三教 (Taoism, Buddhism and Confucianism), the three schools of thought are the foundations of this drama. SLY is heroism-focused and truly wuxia also because the importance of brothers is emphasised, in the four main relationships between Tang Lici and the four characters of Fang Zhou, Liu Yan, Shen Langhun and Chi Yun.《诗经》(Book of Odes) attributed to Confucius holds the worldview that would have applied to the Jianghu of Whispers of Fate.
In my reply to Taraverde above, I quoted from a specific poem of the Book of Odes which states “凡今之人，莫如兄弟” ie there are none closer and more worthy of being cherished than brothers (兄弟), reflected in so many examples of brotherhood being celebrated and cherished throughout this drama. Shen Langhun giving up on his dead wife's body and letting go of his obsession to die for her and to help Tang Lici for the sake of the pugilistic world is an example of brotherhood intertwined with letting go in Buddhism.
There is this anecdote in the Analects of Confucius about how Confucius viewed《诗经》whereby it goes that one day, his son was passing hurriedly through the Court and saw his father standing alone, lost in thought. Upon seeing his son, Confucius said, "Have you read the Odes?"
"Not yet" was his son's reply.
"Then," said Confucius, "if you do not learn the Odes, you will not be fit to converse with."
In other classical literature sources, the masterpiece《溪山琴况》written by 徐上瀛 (Xu Shangying) who is a famous zither master in the late-Ming Dynasty and early-Qing Dynasty is the basis of the sonic techniques for Liu Yan, Tang Lici, Fang Zhou and Hong-guniang. The concept of attaining "道法自然" in playing the qin (zither) has its foundations in《道德经》to fully portray the aesthetic ideas of the qin.
"the string and finger unite, and the finger and tone unite" is the ideal.
"吾复求其和者三，曰弦与指合 ，指与音合，音与意合，而和至矣。"
[ The three ways I seek harmony: strings and fingers are in union, the fingers are in union with the sound, the sound is in union with the meaning, and harmony is perfected. ] - Disparate elements uniting as one in non-duality is grounded in Buddhism here.
Another section of his text goes "指法有重则有轻，如天地之有阴阳也；有迟则有速，如四时之有寒暑也。盖迟为速之 纲，速为迟之纪，当相间错而不离。"
[ In finger techniques if heaviness is present, so too is lightness, just as between heaven and earth exists yin and yang; if there is slowness. so too is quickness, just as in the four seasons there is cold and heat. Slowness is the measure for quickness, quickness is the context for slowness, they must be interspersed and not separated. ] - I'm taking small liberties with translation but it comes out better this way to capture the essence also from an English grammatical POV.
This is the holistic relationship pertaining to co-existence of duality in Taoism, not one to vanquish the other. Add in the Confucian thinking pertaining to 中和 of having a holistic view of all possibilities and balancing disparate and/or diverse elements?
Hence another section of 《溪山琴况》 states:
"不轻不重者，中和之音也。起调当以中和为主，而轻重特损益之，其趣自生也。"
Tang Lici and Liu Yan are not simply fiddling with strings and waving their sleeves. The scenes of their musical battles appear to be framed and shot with all this in mind as per the cinematography and fight choreography, which is also why I mentioned in my review about the camerawork being specific. Understanding this specific literary work is to have a very clear understanding of how richly emotional this drama actually is in literature and philosophy, and the beauty of this work and other literary works is woven into the screenplay and production process.
Yeah, I might not be thinking of CP and romance when I'm admiring how everything is beautifully presented and awed by how well this has been carried out.
I enjoy Gui Mudan's character song the most. But for overall songs, I like the OP song the most because it makes…
I like your cover of "Bloom" by EXY of WJSN (sorry about the late reply, trying to find your specific older comment in a ton of older notifications is terrible): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmyKBnNGZag
I contrasted your version with the original (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=St4uLSpHd4o). There are differences between each of you for basic vocals, so you need to play to your strengths. One thing you need to do is increase the contrast of enunciation, and this primarily stems from knowing when to make your delivery gentler/softer before switching it up.
From 0:44 when she goes "Don't let it hide you-" ->Your line is fine.
The next line is "I leave my confined self behind" -> Soften your delivery compared to the previous line, so it sounds quieter
And then "Dark night blues" - This is where you hit a slightly higher note, still soft on the delivery.
At "Riding out the storm, I bloom" - Your delivery must be different from hers. I would advise you let your voice revert to original and soar strongly. This resonates when people hear you literally riding out the storm and bloom, in your vocals.
"When my season comes again" -- Go Soft.
"Oh--" - Keep your original intonation.
Hope this helps, as an example. Jungkook of BTS has perfect pitch so when I hear him sing even if I don't like the song, his voice is very aurally soothing to my ears.
Great to hear you are enjoying the drama! Which episode are you on?Whispers of Fate is a heroism-focused drama…
No worries. Wait till you finish the drama because you are very close to the end, and kwanto's comment is sharing spoilers about the ending for those who have not finished the drama.
[ FoF has a great OST, and FMVs for some of these songs are exceptional. There are some songs I really like in FoF, such as Li Lun's theme song that already told me what would happen to him the first time I heard it, and Zhao Yuanzhou's theme song that also reflects his journey and what would happen to him. Many FoF songs are great on a guzheng (speeding them up also gives a different feel):
not just her tbh, there's also quite a few frustrating side characters. why do they make certain decisions, what…
Technically we need more than 40 episodes, if we are keeping all the current characters. It would still be possible to keep this story well-told within 40 episodes with strong characterisation connecting well, but some restructuring would have to happen. IMHO, the biggest fundamental issue of this drama is having too many characters so when I finished watching this drama for the second time, this is the discussion thread which ensued after I summarised what I would alter (including two characters I would remove):
Teng Ping abandoned this novel for more than 10 years and left it unfinished because she didn't like it, and then picked it up again to finish after the novel was adapted for the drama. Here's a summary of what happened, according to Azure:
There's certain vibes that more than one viewer picked up on as per Tang Lici's behaviour, so I helpfully provided a section of a chapter from the unfinished novel (unlike the novel, the drama wonderfully fulfils Tang Lici's yearning to know a certain someone):
This drama is very helpful in majorly cementing for the future in C-Ent that heroism-focused dramas (including Immortal Ascension) don't need romance to succeed, if one goes by all the domestic statistics during the airing of this drama.
Luo Yunxi is the principal leading actor and character (领衔主演), and certain actors and actresses are part of the main cast (主要演员) not on the same level of importance as him such as Bao Shang En and Ao Ziyi, but MDL has its limitations. Luo Yunxi is the actor that resulted in the massive funding for this project, not any of the other cast.
That said, even with limited screentime, the likes of Chen Yao and Xiao Shunyao gave memorable performances (he couldn't have more scenes, because he was injured during filming for a stunt). Jeremy Tsu had even more limited screentime, and he was amazing. I wish they had stuck to the original listing and billing of Luo Yunxi as the only main actor, and the rest as supporting cast. It is easy to misunderstand "Whispers of Fate" having a FL because from its conception, there is no FL.
It was fun to write, once I got into the groove :D
Non-mandarin speakers who focus only on CP and romance from a modern perspective will definitely miss the key Confucian theme of brotherhood as one of the foundations for "Whispers of Fate", which is the emphasis of the relationships between Tang Lici and the other four characters of Fang Zhou, Liu Yan, Shen Langhun and Chi Yun. Back in those days, brotherhood was one of the Five Bonds as per the infamous Book of Odes attributed to Confucius, who used that to teach morality and politics.
The poem《小雅·常棣》in《诗经》(Book of Odes) illustrates the fundamental importance of brotherhood, as per how the likes of Tang Lici, Shen Langhun and others in the pugilistic world would have viewed brotherhood as per the Five Bonds.
Within the first two lines of that poem, it is stated “凡今之人，莫如兄弟” which means in this world, there are none closer and more worthy of being cherished than brothers (兄弟), and we see so many examples of brotherhood being celebrated and cherished throughout this drama. Virtues tied to brotherhood in various acts (such as Zhong Chunji saving A-Shui) are the underlying themes for the Jianghu of this drama. I couldn't see how to squeeze all this into my review, hence I listed "brotherhood" as the first key theme in my review.
Data Queen Kwanto is always here to wreck haters!!
SLY is definitely geared primarily for the Mandarin-speaking audience, domestically and internationally. There's a lot of literature and art references embedded within this drama, but it'll all be completely lost on a non-Mandarin speaker.
For example, I left a reply to someone who was trying to explain "Whispers of Fate" to a reviewer who obviously doesn't understand mandarin, shows zero understanding of technicalities, has zero understanding of the philosophies underpinning this drama, and has zero understanding of theatre (both western and eastern) plus history of HK movies: https://kisskh.at/profile/anitfa/review/507800#comment-24505392
I speak at least four languages, three of which I use every day in my work (mandarin being absolutely necessary). If I watch a movie in a language I'm not fluent in, I want to understand the cultural nuances and hence I would ask someone else who understands those.
To speak as if one knows everything but clearly knows nothing is the epitome of cultural ignorance and massive lack of self-awareness, and such viewers on MDL are common. One can watch C-dramas for more than ten years without understanding mandarin, but there will always be a significant difference between the mandarin-speaker versus the non-mandarin speaker.
My friends who watched at least 20 years of C-Ent and celebrate traditions while working for global companies will not be taking any cues or opinions from a non-mandarin speaker on C-Ent, unless they want an international perspective that they hope is sensible otherwise to them, it's impossible to connect well with someone over a drama that a viewer cannot understand the culture and language of. They've met enough arrogant foreigners offline who sound exactly like the reviewer above.
Simultaneously if I don't speak a language, I would try to reduce my cultural ignorance before I decide to speak as if I knew everything about a movie/drama whose language and culture is not my own.
And I'm happy to add that the likes of the phenomenal "Knockout" and this year's heralded dark horse "This Thriving Land" are massive domestic hits, but on MDL these amazing dramas barely make a blip due to a larger group of C-drama viewers who are fixated on romance and insist on happy couple-y endings otherwise they downrate a drama. Another example is "The Guardian" that I very much enjoyed and wrote a review for, but it is history-heavy and for a spy espionage thriller, at least understanding the backdrop of World War II on Southeast Asian countries plus KMT plus CCP makes the drama understandably realistic.
I am so mad at myself for putting this show on hold. As a person who loves a show filled with deep and complex…
Great to hear you are enjoying the drama! Which episode are you on?
Whispers of Fate is a heroism-focused drama with a well-formed protagonist ready to level the chessboard of his foes akin to a chess master while deciding whether to become a hero and save countless lives and has to weigh up world issues, hence romance is barely a blip on the radar unless you use your imagination. In this drama, you're unpeeling multiples onions with a solid emotional core delicately-woven with the philosophical webs of Buddhism, Taoism and Confucianism.
TTEOM is heavy on romance, relationships, and how one compelling demon god can fundamentally change because of the efforts of others, especially due to someone who loves him. In that drama, you follow the protagonist on his journey as he evolves and develops.
For me, Tantai Jin and Tang Lici are fundamentally different MLs but as kwanto points out, they also have similarities (spoilers at https://kisskh.at/755725-shui-long-yin#comment-24470836). The screenplays and focus of each drama is completely different, hence I encourage watching both dramas :D
I look forward to your songs analysis! And I would be happy to add an analysis of songs to our Group Collective Contributions: Details, trivia, insights across 40 episodes of "Whispers of Fate":
Whether it is RBF’s informative 2023 forum post about the poster for Whispers of Fate, underthestars dispersing interesting episode minutiae across 40 episodes, Taraverde’s highly-recommended amazing review in three acts of aesthetics/art/philosophy, Azure’s phenomenal insight and details for Worldview and Timelines and nuances, Mizuhira-san’s compassionate attention to culture and the unseen in trivia comments and her review, or kwanto’s skilful dissection of statistics and viewpoints~ Happy watching and listening!
This review has some profound misunderstandings about the story's goals which are more spiritual in nature and…
This is a xuanxia drama and it was marketed as such, whereby the target audience is first and foremost a mandarin-speaking audience (both domestic and internationally). The drama is strongly immersive in Chinese history and art, philosophically focused on Buddhism and Taoism with Confucian elements (one fundamental element is strongly present which is what you'd expect in good wuxia movies or dramas), and geared specifically towards a well-formed protagonist taking on a complex conspiracy as a chess master and best martial artist of the world. In short, this is a heroism-focused drama also geared towards the older pickier audiences who have at least 25 years or more of C-Ent experience and are bored of typical xianxia dramas.
The non-mandarin-speaking international viewer who knows nothing about chinese theatre and chinese opera, nothing about the philosophies of Taoism or Buddhism and Confucian elements, nothing about history of various dynasties plus nothing about the classical literature behind designs of weapons, sets and posters will miss all this and isn't the target audience, especially if one insists on zero interest in educating oneself about any of the aspects I have pointed out here and demonstrates zero interest in why and how extensive depth in chinese culture shapes the best C-dramas.
The likes of the phenomenal "Knockout" and this year's heralded dark horse "This Thriving Land" are massive domestic hits, but on MDL for C-dramas these amazing dramas barely make a blip due to a larger group of young international non-mandarin-speaking viewers fixated on romance and insist on happy couple-y endings without realising how they might ruin quality productions by speaking out as authority on C-dramas, especially when they ignorantly downrate a drama. It is because of such reviewers that I and others are very happy about MDL users having zero power and zero influence over dramas produced in Mandarin-speaking countries, even if there are also sensible international MDL viewers who appreciate C-dramas for plot and characterisation and philosophy.
All current achievements point to 'Whispers of Fate" being #1 or #2 drama of 2025 within China.
Currently ranked #4 on Maoyan’s annual chart after garnering more than 1.8 billion views within 39 days of broadcasting makes “Whispers of Fate” the fastest-moving entry of 2025 to move up the Maoyan chart. As of 6 December, exceeded 4.9 billion views on MangoTV’s front-end broadcast statistics. According to CSM data, 2.838 billion views were reached across all platforms. Despite having aired only recently, "Whispers of Fate" received nomination for CPOP 2026 (only other two dramas within these 3 years to be recognised and nominated were “Joy of Life” and “Till The End Of The Moon”).
Fellow mandarin-speakers can point out many achievements, such as in the footsteps of Mango & Migu’s big satisfaction thank-you ads weeks past the SLY finale, SLY peripheral brand KOOCI is giving SLY a big “thank you” ad at Beijing Airport for 31 straight days, spotlighting Tang Lici. First time ever for a drama peripheral brand. SLY merchandise has already hit nearly 19M in sales by Dec 12.
We don't use Douban and Yunhe for multiple reasons, because Yunhe has multiple issues as a company and this drama also proves Yunhe has no access to real data. Douban is usually attacked by trolls (see Vendetta of An as an example). When the official accolades far outweigh such dubious sources (BTW, anybody who is aware of how statistics works for C-dramas in China will not be referencing Douban or Yunhe as sole reliable markers), it's clear as day to mandarin-speakers within China and outside China how groundbreaking and successful SLY is as a drama :)
Only the clueless or haters of this drama will be referencing Douban or Yunhe at this point. The first episode is already strongly immersed in Buddhist philosophy, such as this seemingly-simple conversation between Tang Lici and the Abbot: https://kisskh.at/755725-shui-long-yin#comment-23933494
In episode 14, two chinese literary references within five minutes and not understanding certain cues means completely having no clues about the villain Gui Mudan, who is reciting lines from a famous Yuan zaju and the Sichuan opera influences also help to convey what he is.《西厢记》ie "Romance of The Western Chamber" is by the famous playwright Wang Shifu of the Yuan Dynasty. This work consisting of 5 books and twenty acts is most representative of Yuan Opera literature while considered one of the greatest northern Chinese plays. You'd have to be fluent in Mandarin plus grasp these references while watching to immediately understand how and why Gui Mudan has no respect and is mocking the person he is speaking to, despite using honorary titles towards the other person.
Jeremy Tsu's outstanding performance as Gui Mudan revealing what he is in episode 14 is impossible for a non-mandarin speaker to understand and grasp if one relies on subtitles, because all the cues require fluent mandarin plus understanding of traditions in chinese culture (in which one of the traits is not translatable in any other language).
"Whispers of Fate" had to compete with at least 4 traffic actor dramas when airing. "Till The End Of The Moon" had no traffic drama to fight with, when airing. This illustrates the strength and appeal in "Whispers of Fate", especially when Migu (primarily male subscribers) have also massively smashed their own heat index. MangoTV has broken their records in all aspects with this drama.
TTEOM is romance-focused with a simpler screenplay. "Whispers of Fate" is more complex and far more enjoyable for those of us who want works reminding us of directors such as Tsui Hark and Zhang Yimou in a drama form. How often do we get marvellous storytelling involving true wuxia focus of brotherhood and the foundations in Chinese philosophy pertaining to Three Schools of Thought so deeply fleshed out in a C-drama? This drama's four main relationships for Tang Lici shaping his journey throughout this drama are with Fang Zhou, Liu Yan, Shen Langhun and Chi Yun.
"Mysterious Lotus Casebook" is strong on brotherhood, but is not as strong on the brotherhood theme as "Whispers of Fate". MLC and WoF have different aims and use very different approaches to achieve their success. I'm glad for both to exist, because MLC and WoF and all other dramas such as "Strange Tales of Tang Dynasty" give us so much more to enjoy across different genres for variety and focus.
This is an innovative drama melding xuanhuan and wuxia genres catering to the adults who like classical literature heavily underlining actual wuxia brotherhood, not the CP-romance fans in wuxia and xianxia genres who once in a while, attempt to watch something different, think they know everything based on appreciating one or two non-romance C-dramas, but would not be able to appreciate dramas like "Whispers of Fate", "The Knockout" and "This Thriving Land". Nothing wrong with different preferences.
I suggest reading reviews from viewers who demonstrate understanding of technicalities, respect for chinese culture and the nuances of a drama geared towards well-formed mature protagonists bearing world-saving responsibilities, for C-dramas. If you're looking for reviews on Sherlock Holmes or Lord Of The Rings or any movie in the Golden Age of Hollywood ("Whispers of Fate" is in this category), those who demonstrate that their understanding in reviews is best suited for Sweet Valley High books or the movie "Legally Blonde" are not going to be your cup of tea. I hope this helps more clearly about how to vet future reviews on MDL.
"Whispers of Fate" is fundamentally different from the typical cultivate-to-become-strong storylines of many wuxia and xianxia dramas that are also typically heavy on romance, given this drama has no CP hence hugely satisfying for non-romance viewers as per the producers saying way before the drama aired that it would be heroism-focused.
You've produced yet another remarkable review, Xiang! It's evident how much you love [Whispers of Fate] a.k.a.…
You're welcome :D The entire team behind "Whispers of Fate" should be proud knowing they have made a timeless classic in historical costume dramas blending xuanhuan and wuxia, which is going to be very hard to top in the years to come. It definitely makes the segment of very-experienced C-Ent viewers feel appreciated that such a drama also caters to us ฅ^>⩊<^ ฅ (plus I get to exercise certain backgrounds, which is fun)
I just realised the actress playing Long Nv (Tang Lici's mother) is Zhang Zhi Xi! She was Ran Qing to Cheng Yi's Asura King Xuan Ye in Immortal Samsara, and I adore her as Ni Ni's sworn older sister Qing Yao in "Love and Destiny". She melded comedy, authority, warmth, heartbreak and devotion so beautifully, being a strong individual while embroiled in a love triangle. Completely perfect for the role of most important woman in Tang Lici's life, giving drama-Tang Lici what novel-Tang Lici yearned for most desperately but never attained. Her makeup, clothing and lines for the role of Long Nv is perfect. Well, almost perfect because I wanted her to have more time with Tang Lici! How he gazed at her, tears in his eyes, as she looked at him with such unconditional all-encompassing love, sweet and gentle and absolutely captivating- Like Tang Lici, I wanted their moments to never stop. The way they looked at each other, the chemistry of such amazing strength in an unbreakable bond that possibly became the strongest bond for him, which is why he thought of her when- And then everything faded back into reality.
A second time rewatching this drama really allowed me to appreciate even more of what I like so much. And based on the multiple comments here that I have enjoyed replying to, it's wonderful to see my love for this drama in a review touch a chord with so many different fellow viewers and lovers of this drama!
I can definitely see myself rewatching SLY every year. And I am very grateful to the philosophy, pathos and ethos of the creative team responsible for this drama.
loved reading your review! i agree 100% . i thought i had watched enough c-drama to catch on more stuff, but this…
Glad you enjoyed this! I enjoyed writing this review just as much as I enjoyed writing my review for "The Guardians". When I find myself happily immersing in a drama, it just flows.
One of my favourite fight scenes is in episode 24, when Tang Lici fights Hua Wuyan. I found myself naturally immersed within the entire sequencing from 16:31 when Tang Lici goes to save Zhong Chunji, leading to the fight with Hua Wuyan, and then the saving of Zhong Chunji as she is drowning in the water. That underwater scene between Tang Lici and Zhong Chunji being the cherry on the cake until 26:23 had me going ( ˶°ㅁ°) !!
(I'm sure my jaw was hanging open slightly throughout that entire sequence of scenes, and I was probably smiling like a loon) And of course, they used two songs there to great effect, one of them being《念水谣》by 吴翊之 which I'll probably play on the guzheng when I can find the score to learn it. Great atmosphere and chemistry between all involved for those scenes. I felt happy for Zhong Chunji that Tang Lici saved her, but also sad for her due to everything Liu Yan subjected her to.
Liu Yuhan as Hua Wuyan is terrific. His interpretation of his character is spot-on. The swordplay between Tang Lici and Hua Wuyan is what I want from a wuxia viewpoint, before Hua Wuyan truly activates his final technique to the maximum. I couldn't squeeze all this gushing into my review (˶ˆᗜˆ˵)
There's currently at least 8 people commenting on this review, and I've shared thoughts and other scenes with them that you might appreciate too :D
I don't think I'll be able to watch another costume drama for a while because the CGI here was sooo good, Kudos…
Glad to see another fellow viewer who enjoyed it! It's an outstanding costume drama. Have you seen the list of achievements and milestones at this point?
I'll quote from two parts of my review, which I just posted today:
[ A set needing 18 months to construct, various scenes comprising seven-thousand square metres over 144 days and 164 outdoor locations results in amazingly detailed grandeur. Be it the Floating Abyss, Tang Lici’s Ship of Ten Thousand Apertures, Sword King City or the Celestial Realm, vibrant textured luminosity with ethereal or eerie haunting loveliness utilising an evocative organic colour palette of specific rock pigments is cemented via Yancai technique from Dunhuang murals of the Tang Dynasty by Art Director Zheng Chen (Lost You Forever), Director Chen Zhoufei (won 55th Golden Horse Award for Best Cinematography of Zhang Yimou’s movie “Shadow”) and Zhang Zhi Bin. Set designs, set arrangements and cinematography is superior to "Till The End Of The Moon", due to technicalities combined with intensive traditional artistic techniques which I have mentioned. ]
and
[ Currently ranked #4 on Maoyan’s annual chart after garnering more than 1.8 billion views within 39 days of broadcasting makes “Whispers of Fate” the fastest-moving entry of 2025 to move up the Maoyan chart. As of 6 December, exceeded 4.9 billion views on MangoTV’s front-end broadcast statistics. According to CSM data, 2.838 billion viewers were reached across all platforms. Despite having aired only recently, "Whispers of Fate" received nomination for CPOP 2026 (only other two dramas within these 3 years to be recognised and nominated were “Joy of Life” and “Till The End Of The Moon”).
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I hope she was able to do her own ADR, given I like her voice: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PM_jj0ega8
I'm curious and very interested to see how she and LYX bounce off each other, given her presence: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/suIjP_jfJp8
[ As we explore this world further, we will see more and more things that go beyond the good and evil, transcending duality, ultimately letting go of attachments, recognizing their impermanence, and embracing Emptiness (Śūnyatā) to end the Cycle of Rebirth (Saṃsāra) and attain Liberation (Nirvana).
What truly heals you is never time but understanding; nothing can be taken away or retained, only Karma stays with us. Causality seldom forgives. Regardless of whether others love him or not, whether someone is right or wrong, Tang Lici loves everyone, simply loving everything, needing nothing in return, in this way, he becomes the compassion (Karuṇā) himself, the most primitive power in the universe. ] - You saw one step further than me on Karuṇā, and I greatly appreciate it.
SLY is a drama that will never end. I didn't know it, but it is the historical costumes C-drama I have been waiting for, for my entire life. And this isn't easy to say, when I know what I do.
I know you appreciate the wuxia concepts for SLY, so I also wrote this for non-mandarin speakers: https://kisskh.at/755725-shui-long-yin#comment-24569086
This isn’t going to be evident to non-mandarin speakers who never read or cannot read at least three sources providing the fundamental insight needed for “Whispers of Fate”.
Wuxia is not about men or women fighting in an epic martial arts world. In our chinese history and classical literature, Taoism, Buddhism and Confucianism are the Three Schools of Thought (三教), and the three schools of thought are the foundations of this drama, especially Confucianism.
SLY is heroism-focused and solidly displays the foundations of wuxia values, because the importance of brothers is emphasised in the four main relationships between Tang Lici and the four characters of Fang Zhou, Liu Yan, Shen Langhun and Chi Yun.
In my review, one of the first sentences I stated was, “An unusual protagonist with key themes of brotherhood, camaraderie and conflict are buoyed by a delicately-woven map of Taoism and Buddhism philosophy studded with Confucian elements.”
I also added near the end:
“Underpinning it all is this observation from《道德經 》:
「故有無相生，難易相成，長短相較，高下相傾，音聲相和，前後相隨。」”
《诗经》(Book of Odes) attributed to Confucius holds the worldview that would have applied to the Jianghu of Whispers of Fate, and Confucius was attributed as using《诗经》to teach morals and philosophy. To understand its importance, you must have a certain amount of awareness and understanding of the Analects of Confucius.
There is this anecdote in the Analects of Confucius about how Confucius viewed《诗经》whereby it goes that one day, his son was passing hurriedly through the Court and saw his father standing alone, lost in thought. Upon seeing his son, Confucius said, "Have you read the Odes?"
"Not yet" was his son's reply.
"Then," said Confucius, "if you do not learn the Odes, you will not be fit to converse with."
The poem《小雅·常棣》in《诗经》(Book of Odes) illustrates the fundamental importance of brotherhood, as per how the likes of Tang Lici, Shen Langhun and others in the pugilistic world would have viewed brotherhood as per the Five Bonds defined by Confucius.
(Link with further expansions here: https://zhuanlan.zhihu.com/p/503346409)
Within the first two lines of that poem, it states “凡今之人，莫如兄弟” which means in this world, there are none closer and more worthy of being cherished than brothers (兄弟), and we see so many examples of brotherhood being celebrated and cherished throughout this drama. Wuxia is acts of chivalry as part of ties between brothers especially those who choose brothers not by blood, moral codes and martial arts. If you have martial arts in historical costumes without everything else, it’s just fighting and nothing to do with wuxia.
Virtues tied to brotherhood in various acts (such as acts of chivalry seen by Zhong Chunji saving A-Shui in episode 1) are the underlying themes for the Jianghu of this drama.
I also stated, “Ming Dynasty literature utilising Three Schools of Thought formed the basis of many weapon designs and concepts, especially sonic techniques of Tang Lici and Liu Yan.”
In another important classical literature source for Whispers for Fate,《溪山琴况》(Zither Theory of Mountain Streams) written by 徐上瀛 (Xu Shangying) is the masterpiece of a famous zither master in the late-Ming and early-Qing Dynasties. This is the basis of the sonic techniques for Liu Yan, Tang Lici, Fang Zhou and Hong-guniang, which has been heavily utilised for the battles. If you do not understand the Three Schools of Thought to a certain extent in Mandarin, you cannot appreciate this classical literature source.
The concepts of attaining "道法自然" and “高山流水”in playing the qin (zither) has its foundations in《道德经》that I quoted, to fully portray the aesthetic ideas of the qin. If you are a guzheng player like me or a guqin player, these concepts will be particularly appreciated.
"the string and finger unite, and the finger and tone unite" is the ideal.
"吾复求其和者三，曰弦与指合 ，指与音合，音与意合，而和至矣。"
[ The three ways I seek harmony: strings and fingers are in union, the fingers are in union with the sound, the sound is in union with the meaning, and harmony is perfected. ] - Disparate elements uniting as one in non-duality is grounded in Buddhism here.
Another section of the text by Xu Shangying goes "指法有重则有轻，如天地之有阴阳也；有迟则有速，如四时之有寒暑也。盖迟为速之 纲，速为迟之纪，当相间错而不离。"
[ In finger techniques if heaviness is present, so too is lightness, just as between heaven and earth exists yin and yang; if there is slowness. so too is quickness, just as in the four seasons there is cold and heat. Slowness is the measure for quickness, quickness is the context for slowness, they must be interspersed and not separated. ] - Taking small liberties with translation but it comes out better this way to capture the essence also from an English grammatical POV. This matches what I quoted from the famous philosophical work of Lao Zi, which is part of what I had to study growing up as a kid for Mandarin.
That paragraph is the holistic relationship pertaining to co-existence of duality in Taoism, not one to vanquish the other. Don’t forget the Confucian thinking pertaining to 中和 of having a holistic view of all possibilities while balancing disparate and/or diverse elements.
Hence another section of 《溪山琴况》 states:
"不轻不重者，中和之音也。起调当以中和为主，而轻重特损益之，其趣自生也。"
What is 中和 in Confucianism?
http://www.chinaknowledge.de/Literature/Classics/zhongyong.html
Tang Lici and Liu Yan are not simply playing with strings and waving their sleeves in beautiful scenery. The scenes of their musical battles appear to be framed and shot with all this in mind as per the cinematography and fight choreography, which is also why I mentioned in my review about the camerawork being specific.
Understanding at least the classical literature I have mentioned above is to have a very clear understanding of the rich emotional depth evident in this drama, woven into the screenplay and production process.
What has been shared in the relationships of Tang Lici with Fang Zhou, Liu Yan, Shen Langhun and Chi Yun, reciprocal and developed? You see everything about the ties of brothers chosen not by blood but by virtues, all beautifully fleshed out in joy and pain, kindness and heartbreak. What does Tang Lici care for, about the pugilistic world? Tang Lici's emotional core of 侠义 based on 三教 is demonstrated across the drama and becomes his key weapon to break the shackles of fate. Other pugilists such as the Sword Masters of the Central Plains Sword Alliance, the Yanmen sect etc, all demonstrate 侠义 by episode 32. 侠义 is essential to the wuxia genre.
I’m not thinking first and foremost of CP and romance, when I'm admiring how the Three Schools is amazingly incorporated in Whispers of Fate, and awed by how well the foundations of this drama has been carried out. Movies such as 1983’s “Zu: Warriors of The Magic Mountain” and 1993’s “Green Snake” require understanding of Mandarin plus the Three Schools plus a certain extent of Chinese culture and history, otherwise the basis and aesthetics of these iconic movies simply cannot be appreciated in its entirety and certain fundamentals are definitely overlooked.
Whispers of Fate falls in this very-Chinese category, which I am very thankful for. If someone is going to claim they see no wuxia in this drama, or “Mysterious Lotus Casebook” is wuxia but not Whispers of Fate, or why isn’t Tang Lici paired with someone otherwise he’s wasted due to unsatisfying romance in this drama because nothing else worthwhile seems to exist for this drama except the extent or lack of a “romance” between Tang Lici and A-Shui- My first unexpected reaction is to laugh, because it tells me a lot about ignorance in the opinion being proffered. I'm pretty sure you can find better views than mine, but you'll have to go on weibo for them.
Mini-dramas and vertical dramas are money-spinners. And everybody is IC, investigative work unfolds naturally, suspense maintained, no political intrigues (those who didn't like S3 as much as S1 and S2 was because of the political intrigue). Very good for new viewers to dive in and enjoy the humour and plot, because the unfolding of who's who and the characters (good and bad and grey) are very well done from a narrative POV :)
Binging this as a mini-drama is easy. Season 4 as a mini-drama helps new viewers believe that binging earlier seasons in longform versions after this drama eg Season 1 will also be easy.
Your reaction is remarkably unique and mature in nuancing about how you interpret romance here, because there were a lot of upset fans for one actress due to episodes 33 and 35, and they didn't sound anything like you.
Episode 19 was literally the most cringe-y thing ever, pertaining to lines from A-Shui. There were loopholes to accommodate A-Shui's presence in the drama, and here are various opinions from different viewers:
https://kisskh.at/755725-shui-long-yin#comment-24391976
https://kisskh.at/755725-shui-long-yin#comment-24400420
https://kisskh.at/755725-shui-long-yin#comment-24399916
When we talk about love, it depends on what love we are referring to. Some viewers inferred that the love Tang Lici was most lacking and most needed was maternal (that's also in the unfinished novel before it was adapted for this drama). Others say romance was what helped him learn. If A-Shui was indeed supposed to teach him about romantic love, then the way things have turned out taught Tang Lici he doesn't need romantic love. What he does in episode 39 (38:25 to 38:47) caught me by surprise.
At the end of the day, your reaction confirms that the producers did a good job walking that thin line of pleasing all three factions :D
When the first fifteen episodes aired, I at first defended A-Shui's inclusion. I thought she was bright, her indirect contributions were helpful- And then holes started appearing for her to be able show up at certain times and places in the drama. None of my offline friends support A-Shui's inclusion because they couldn't accept her portrayal as a female character being too cringe-y for them at times plus they didn't see the value of having her in the drama when certain storylines could have been strengthened without her.
There are viewers who believe there was romance, but there are viewers who also didn't see any romance between A-Shui and Tang Lici. It was the kind of "romance" that pleased the no-romance faction which if one puts it nicely, the producers walked a thin line to please all factions and hence led to the biggest complaints coming from fans of a certain actress about the disappointing outcome of Tang Lici having no CP.
I quoted a certain section of 《道德经》 in my main review as the underlying foundation (in traditional mandarin so Pytheos would enjoy my point), which is:
「故有無相生，難易相成，長短相較，高下相傾，音聲相和，前後相隨。」
In our chinese history of 三教 (Taoism, Buddhism and Confucianism), the three schools of thought are the foundations of this drama. SLY is heroism-focused and truly wuxia also because the importance of brothers is emphasised, in the four main relationships between Tang Lici and the four characters of Fang Zhou, Liu Yan, Shen Langhun and Chi Yun.《诗经》(Book of Odes) attributed to Confucius holds the worldview that would have applied to the Jianghu of Whispers of Fate.
In my reply to Taraverde above, I quoted from a specific poem of the Book of Odes which states “凡今之人，莫如兄弟” ie there are none closer and more worthy of being cherished than brothers (兄弟), reflected in so many examples of brotherhood being celebrated and cherished throughout this drama. Shen Langhun giving up on his dead wife's body and letting go of his obsession to die for her and to help Tang Lici for the sake of the pugilistic world is an example of brotherhood intertwined with letting go in Buddhism.
There is this anecdote in the Analects of Confucius about how Confucius viewed《诗经》whereby it goes that one day, his son was passing hurriedly through the Court and saw his father standing alone, lost in thought. Upon seeing his son, Confucius said, "Have you read the Odes?"
"Not yet" was his son's reply.
"Then," said Confucius, "if you do not learn the Odes, you will not be fit to converse with."
In other classical literature sources, the masterpiece《溪山琴况》written by 徐上瀛 (Xu Shangying) who is a famous zither master in the late-Ming Dynasty and early-Qing Dynasty is the basis of the sonic techniques for Liu Yan, Tang Lici, Fang Zhou and Hong-guniang. The concept of attaining "道法自然" in playing the qin (zither) has its foundations in《道德经》to fully portray the aesthetic ideas of the qin.
"the string and finger unite, and the finger and tone unite" is the ideal.
"吾复求其和者三，曰弦与指合 ，指与音合，音与意合，而和至矣。"
[ The three ways I seek harmony: strings and fingers are in union, the fingers are in union with the sound, the sound is in union with the meaning, and harmony is perfected. ] - Disparate elements uniting as one in non-duality is grounded in Buddhism here.
Another section of his text goes "指法有重则有轻，如天地之有阴阳也；有迟则有速，如四时之有寒暑也。盖迟为速之 纲，速为迟之纪，当相间错而不离。"
[ In finger techniques if heaviness is present, so too is lightness, just as between heaven and earth exists yin and yang; if there is slowness. so too is quickness, just as in the four seasons there is cold and heat. Slowness is the measure for quickness, quickness is the context for slowness, they must be interspersed and not separated. ] - I'm taking small liberties with translation but it comes out better this way to capture the essence also from an English grammatical POV.
This is the holistic relationship pertaining to co-existence of duality in Taoism, not one to vanquish the other. Add in the Confucian thinking pertaining to 中和 of having a holistic view of all possibilities and balancing disparate and/or diverse elements?
Hence another section of 《溪山琴况》 states:
"不轻不重者，中和之音也。起调当以中和为主，而轻重特损益之，其趣自生也。"
Tang Lici and Liu Yan are not simply fiddling with strings and waving their sleeves. The scenes of their musical battles appear to be framed and shot with all this in mind as per the cinematography and fight choreography, which is also why I mentioned in my review about the camerawork being specific. Understanding this specific literary work is to have a very clear understanding of how richly emotional this drama actually is in literature and philosophy, and the beauty of this work and other literary works is woven into the screenplay and production process.
Yeah, I might not be thinking of CP and romance when I'm admiring how everything is beautifully presented and awed by how well this has been carried out.
I contrasted your version with the original (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=St4uLSpHd4o). There are differences between each of you for basic vocals, so you need to play to your strengths. One thing you need to do is increase the contrast of enunciation, and this primarily stems from knowing when to make your delivery gentler/softer before switching it up.
From 0:44 when she goes "Don't let it hide you-" ->Your line is fine.
The next line is "I leave my confined self behind" -> Soften your delivery compared to the previous line, so it sounds quieter
And then "Dark night blues" - This is where you hit a slightly higher note, still soft on the delivery.
At "Riding out the storm, I bloom" - Your delivery must be different from hers. I would advise you let your voice revert to original and soar strongly. This resonates when people hear you literally riding out the storm and bloom, in your vocals.
"When my season comes again" -- Go Soft.
"Oh--" - Keep your original intonation.
Hope this helps, as an example. Jungkook of BTS has perfect pitch so when I hear him sing even if I don't like the song, his voice is very aurally soothing to my ears.
[ FoF has a great OST, and FMVs for some of these songs are exceptional. There are some songs I really like in FoF, such as Li Lun's theme song that already told me what would happen to him the first time I heard it, and Zhao Yuanzhou's theme song that also reflects his journey and what would happen to him. Many FoF songs are great on a guzheng (speeding them up also gives a different feel):
Li Lun's character song 《天地无仑》: https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1N3qHYiEFt/
Zhao Yuanzhou's character song 《远舟的少年》: https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1HAzzYQEet/)
Guo Cai Jie's《春风不问》: https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1hUUrYwEPD
YiyanMeng who watched Whispers of Fate did a vocal cover for an FoF song too! ]
https://kisskh.at/755725-shui-long-yin#comment-24390346
Teng Ping abandoned this novel for more than 10 years and left it unfinished because she didn't like it, and then picked it up again to finish after the novel was adapted for the drama. Here's a summary of what happened, according to Azure:
https://kisskh.at/755725-shui-long-yin#comment-24292802
There's certain vibes that more than one viewer picked up on as per Tang Lici's behaviour, so I helpfully provided a section of a chapter from the unfinished novel (unlike the novel, the drama wonderfully fulfils Tang Lici's yearning to know a certain someone):
https://kisskh.at/755725-shui-long-yin#comment-24289410
This drama is very helpful in majorly cementing for the future in C-Ent that heroism-focused dramas (including Immortal Ascension) don't need romance to succeed, if one goes by all the domestic statistics during the airing of this drama.
Luo Yunxi is the principal leading actor and character (领衔主演), and certain actors and actresses are part of the main cast (主要演员) not on the same level of importance as him such as Bao Shang En and Ao Ziyi, but MDL has its limitations. Luo Yunxi is the actor that resulted in the massive funding for this project, not any of the other cast.
That said, even with limited screentime, the likes of Chen Yao and Xiao Shunyao gave memorable performances (he couldn't have more scenes, because he was injured during filming for a stunt). Jeremy Tsu had even more limited screentime, and he was amazing. I wish they had stuck to the original listing and billing of Luo Yunxi as the only main actor, and the rest as supporting cast. It is easy to misunderstand "Whispers of Fate" having a FL because from its conception, there is no FL.
Non-mandarin speakers who focus only on CP and romance from a modern perspective will definitely miss the key Confucian theme of brotherhood as one of the foundations for "Whispers of Fate", which is the emphasis of the relationships between Tang Lici and the other four characters of Fang Zhou, Liu Yan, Shen Langhun and Chi Yun. Back in those days, brotherhood was one of the Five Bonds as per the infamous Book of Odes attributed to Confucius, who used that to teach morality and politics.
The poem《小雅·常棣》in《诗经》(Book of Odes) illustrates the fundamental importance of brotherhood, as per how the likes of Tang Lici, Shen Langhun and others in the pugilistic world would have viewed brotherhood as per the Five Bonds.
(Link with further expansions here: https://zhuanlan.zhihu.com/p/503346409)
Within the first two lines of that poem, it is stated “凡今之人，莫如兄弟” which means in this world, there are none closer and more worthy of being cherished than brothers (兄弟), and we see so many examples of brotherhood being celebrated and cherished throughout this drama. Virtues tied to brotherhood in various acts (such as Zhong Chunji saving A-Shui) are the underlying themes for the Jianghu of this drama. I couldn't see how to squeeze all this into my review, hence I listed "brotherhood" as the first key theme in my review.
For example, I left a reply to someone who was trying to explain "Whispers of Fate" to a reviewer who obviously doesn't understand mandarin, shows zero understanding of technicalities, has zero understanding of the philosophies underpinning this drama, and has zero understanding of theatre (both western and eastern) plus history of HK movies: https://kisskh.at/profile/anitfa/review/507800#comment-24505392
I speak at least four languages, three of which I use every day in my work (mandarin being absolutely necessary). If I watch a movie in a language I'm not fluent in, I want to understand the cultural nuances and hence I would ask someone else who understands those.
To speak as if one knows everything but clearly knows nothing is the epitome of cultural ignorance and massive lack of self-awareness, and such viewers on MDL are common. One can watch C-dramas for more than ten years without understanding mandarin, but there will always be a significant difference between the mandarin-speaker versus the non-mandarin speaker.
My friends who watched at least 20 years of C-Ent and celebrate traditions while working for global companies will not be taking any cues or opinions from a non-mandarin speaker on C-Ent, unless they want an international perspective that they hope is sensible otherwise to them, it's impossible to connect well with someone over a drama that a viewer cannot understand the culture and language of. They've met enough arrogant foreigners offline who sound exactly like the reviewer above.
Simultaneously if I don't speak a language, I would try to reduce my cultural ignorance before I decide to speak as if I knew everything about a movie/drama whose language and culture is not my own.
And I'm happy to add that the likes of the phenomenal "Knockout" and this year's heralded dark horse "This Thriving Land" are massive domestic hits, but on MDL these amazing dramas barely make a blip due to a larger group of C-drama viewers who are fixated on romance and insist on happy couple-y endings otherwise they downrate a drama. Another example is "The Guardian" that I very much enjoyed and wrote a review for, but it is history-heavy and for a spy espionage thriller, at least understanding the backdrop of World War II on Southeast Asian countries plus KMT plus CCP makes the drama understandably realistic.
Whispers of Fate is a heroism-focused drama with a well-formed protagonist ready to level the chessboard of his foes akin to a chess master while deciding whether to become a hero and save countless lives and has to weigh up world issues, hence romance is barely a blip on the radar unless you use your imagination. In this drama, you're unpeeling multiples onions with a solid emotional core delicately-woven with the philosophical webs of Buddhism, Taoism and Confucianism.
TTEOM is heavy on romance, relationships, and how one compelling demon god can fundamentally change because of the efforts of others, especially due to someone who loves him. In that drama, you follow the protagonist on his journey as he evolves and develops.
For me, Tantai Jin and Tang Lici are fundamentally different MLs but as kwanto points out, they also have similarities (spoilers at https://kisskh.at/755725-shui-long-yin#comment-24470836). The screenplays and focus of each drama is completely different, hence I encourage watching both dramas :D
I look forward to your songs analysis! And I would be happy to add an analysis of songs to our Group Collective Contributions: Details, trivia, insights across 40 episodes of "Whispers of Fate":
https://kisskh.at/discussions/755725-shui-long-yin/146454-group-collective-contributions-details-trivia-insights-across-40-episodes-of-whispers-of-fate
Whether it is RBF’s informative 2023 forum post about the poster for Whispers of Fate, underthestars dispersing interesting episode minutiae across 40 episodes, Taraverde’s highly-recommended amazing review in three acts of aesthetics/art/philosophy, Azure’s phenomenal insight and details for Worldview and Timelines and nuances, Mizuhira-san’s compassionate attention to culture and the unseen in trivia comments and her review, or kwanto’s skilful dissection of statistics and viewpoints~ Happy watching and listening!
The non-mandarin-speaking international viewer who knows nothing about chinese theatre and chinese opera, nothing about the philosophies of Taoism or Buddhism and Confucian elements, nothing about history of various dynasties plus nothing about the classical literature behind designs of weapons, sets and posters will miss all this and isn't the target audience, especially if one insists on zero interest in educating oneself about any of the aspects I have pointed out here and demonstrates zero interest in why and how extensive depth in chinese culture shapes the best C-dramas.
The likes of the phenomenal "Knockout" and this year's heralded dark horse "This Thriving Land" are massive domestic hits, but on MDL for C-dramas these amazing dramas barely make a blip due to a larger group of young international non-mandarin-speaking viewers fixated on romance and insist on happy couple-y endings without realising how they might ruin quality productions by speaking out as authority on C-dramas, especially when they ignorantly downrate a drama. It is because of such reviewers that I and others are very happy about MDL users having zero power and zero influence over dramas produced in Mandarin-speaking countries, even if there are also sensible international MDL viewers who appreciate C-dramas for plot and characterisation and philosophy.
All current achievements point to 'Whispers of Fate" being #1 or #2 drama of 2025 within China.
Currently ranked #4 on Maoyan’s annual chart after garnering more than 1.8 billion views within 39 days of broadcasting makes “Whispers of Fate” the fastest-moving entry of 2025 to move up the Maoyan chart. As of 6 December, exceeded 4.9 billion views on MangoTV’s front-end broadcast statistics. According to CSM data, 2.838 billion views were reached across all platforms. Despite having aired only recently, "Whispers of Fate" received nomination for CPOP 2026 (only other two dramas within these 3 years to be recognised and nominated were “Joy of Life” and “Till The End Of The Moon”).
CPOP nomination is significant, which more than 99% of C-dramas never qualify for. if you're not sure what is CPOP: https://kisskh.at/755725-shui-long-yin#comment-24449484
Fellow mandarin-speakers can point out many achievements, such as in the footsteps of Mango & Migu’s big satisfaction thank-you ads weeks past the SLY finale, SLY peripheral brand KOOCI is giving SLY a big “thank you” ad at Beijing Airport for 31 straight days, spotlighting Tang Lici. First time ever for a drama peripheral brand. SLY merchandise has already hit nearly 19M in sales by Dec 12.
You can see many other statistics here: https://kisskh.at/discussions/755725-shui-long-yin/146888-shui-long-yin-whispers-of-fate-3weeks-post-svip-finale-achievements
We don't use Douban and Yunhe for multiple reasons, because Yunhe has multiple issues as a company and this drama also proves Yunhe has no access to real data. Douban is usually attacked by trolls (see Vendetta of An as an example). When the official accolades far outweigh such dubious sources (BTW, anybody who is aware of how statistics works for C-dramas in China will not be referencing Douban or Yunhe as sole reliable markers), it's clear as day to mandarin-speakers within China and outside China how groundbreaking and successful SLY is as a drama :)
Only the clueless or haters of this drama will be referencing Douban or Yunhe at this point. The first episode is already strongly immersed in Buddhist philosophy, such as this seemingly-simple conversation between Tang Lici and the Abbot: https://kisskh.at/755725-shui-long-yin#comment-23933494
Also see Tang Lici and Zhong Chunji in episode 37: https://kisskh.at/755725-shui-long-yin#comment-24245644
In episode 14, two chinese literary references within five minutes and not understanding certain cues means completely having no clues about the villain Gui Mudan, who is reciting lines from a famous Yuan zaju and the Sichuan opera influences also help to convey what he is.《西厢记》ie "Romance of The Western Chamber" is by the famous playwright Wang Shifu of the Yuan Dynasty. This work consisting of 5 books and twenty acts is most representative of Yuan Opera literature while considered one of the greatest northern Chinese plays. You'd have to be fluent in Mandarin plus grasp these references while watching to immediately understand how and why Gui Mudan has no respect and is mocking the person he is speaking to, despite using honorary titles towards the other person.
Jeremy Tsu's outstanding performance as Gui Mudan revealing what he is in episode 14 is impossible for a non-mandarin speaker to understand and grasp if one relies on subtitles, because all the cues require fluent mandarin plus understanding of traditions in chinese culture (in which one of the traits is not translatable in any other language).
"Whispers of Fate" had to compete with at least 4 traffic actor dramas when airing. "Till The End Of The Moon" had no traffic drama to fight with, when airing. This illustrates the strength and appeal in "Whispers of Fate", especially when Migu (primarily male subscribers) have also massively smashed their own heat index. MangoTV has broken their records in all aspects with this drama.
TTEOM is romance-focused with a simpler screenplay. "Whispers of Fate" is more complex and far more enjoyable for those of us who want works reminding us of directors such as Tsui Hark and Zhang Yimou in a drama form. How often do we get marvellous storytelling involving true wuxia focus of brotherhood and the foundations in Chinese philosophy pertaining to Three Schools of Thought so deeply fleshed out in a C-drama? This drama's four main relationships for Tang Lici shaping his journey throughout this drama are with Fang Zhou, Liu Yan, Shen Langhun and Chi Yun.
"Mysterious Lotus Casebook" is strong on brotherhood, but is not as strong on the brotherhood theme as "Whispers of Fate". MLC and WoF have different aims and use very different approaches to achieve their success. I'm glad for both to exist, because MLC and WoF and all other dramas such as "Strange Tales of Tang Dynasty" give us so much more to enjoy across different genres for variety and focus.
This is an innovative drama melding xuanhuan and wuxia genres catering to the adults who like classical literature heavily underlining actual wuxia brotherhood, not the CP-romance fans in wuxia and xianxia genres who once in a while, attempt to watch something different, think they know everything based on appreciating one or two non-romance C-dramas, but would not be able to appreciate dramas like "Whispers of Fate", "The Knockout" and "This Thriving Land". Nothing wrong with different preferences.
I suggest reading reviews from viewers who demonstrate understanding of technicalities, respect for chinese culture and the nuances of a drama geared towards well-formed mature protagonists bearing world-saving responsibilities, for C-dramas. If you're looking for reviews on Sherlock Holmes or Lord Of The Rings or any movie in the Golden Age of Hollywood ("Whispers of Fate" is in this category), those who demonstrate that their understanding in reviews is best suited for Sweet Valley High books or the movie "Legally Blonde" are not going to be your cup of tea. I hope this helps more clearly about how to vet future reviews on MDL.
"Whispers of Fate" is fundamentally different from the typical cultivate-to-become-strong storylines of many wuxia and xianxia dramas that are also typically heavy on romance, given this drama has no CP hence hugely satisfying for non-romance viewers as per the producers saying way before the drama aired that it would be heroism-focused.
I just realised the actress playing Long Nv (Tang Lici's mother) is Zhang Zhi Xi! She was Ran Qing to Cheng Yi's Asura King Xuan Ye in Immortal Samsara, and I adore her as Ni Ni's sworn older sister Qing Yao in "Love and Destiny". She melded comedy, authority, warmth, heartbreak and devotion so beautifully, being a strong individual while embroiled in a love triangle. Completely perfect for the role of most important woman in Tang Lici's life, giving drama-Tang Lici what novel-Tang Lici yearned for most desperately but never attained. Her makeup, clothing and lines for the role of Long Nv is perfect. Well, almost perfect because I wanted her to have more time with Tang Lici! How he gazed at her, tears in his eyes, as she looked at him with such unconditional all-encompassing love, sweet and gentle and absolutely captivating- Like Tang Lici, I wanted their moments to never stop. The way they looked at each other, the chemistry of such amazing strength in an unbreakable bond that possibly became the strongest bond for him, which is why he thought of her when- And then everything faded back into reality.
A second time rewatching this drama really allowed me to appreciate even more of what I like so much. And based on the multiple comments here that I have enjoyed replying to, it's wonderful to see my love for this drama in a review touch a chord with so many different fellow viewers and lovers of this drama!
I can definitely see myself rewatching SLY every year. And I am very grateful to the philosophy, pathos and ethos of the creative team responsible for this drama.
One of my favourite fight scenes is in episode 24, when Tang Lici fights Hua Wuyan. I found myself naturally immersed within the entire sequencing from 16:31 when Tang Lici goes to save Zhong Chunji, leading to the fight with Hua Wuyan, and then the saving of Zhong Chunji as she is drowning in the water. That underwater scene between Tang Lici and Zhong Chunji being the cherry on the cake until 26:23 had me going ( ˶°ㅁ°) !!
(I'm sure my jaw was hanging open slightly throughout that entire sequence of scenes, and I was probably smiling like a loon) And of course, they used two songs there to great effect, one of them being《念水谣》by 吴翊之 which I'll probably play on the guzheng when I can find the score to learn it. Great atmosphere and chemistry between all involved for those scenes. I felt happy for Zhong Chunji that Tang Lici saved her, but also sad for her due to everything Liu Yan subjected her to.
Liu Yuhan as Hua Wuyan is terrific. His interpretation of his character is spot-on. The swordplay between Tang Lici and Hua Wuyan is what I want from a wuxia viewpoint, before Hua Wuyan truly activates his final technique to the maximum. I couldn't squeeze all this gushing into my review (˶ˆᗜˆ˵)
There's currently at least 8 people commenting on this review, and I've shared thoughts and other scenes with them that you might appreciate too :D
I'll quote from two parts of my review, which I just posted today:
[ A set needing 18 months to construct, various scenes comprising seven-thousand square metres over 144 days and 164 outdoor locations results in amazingly detailed grandeur. Be it the Floating Abyss, Tang Lici’s Ship of Ten Thousand Apertures, Sword King City or the Celestial Realm, vibrant textured luminosity with ethereal or eerie haunting loveliness utilising an evocative organic colour palette of specific rock pigments is cemented via Yancai technique from Dunhuang murals of the Tang Dynasty by Art Director Zheng Chen (Lost You Forever), Director Chen Zhoufei (won 55th Golden Horse Award for Best Cinematography of Zhang Yimou’s movie “Shadow”) and Zhang Zhi Bin. Set designs, set arrangements and cinematography is superior to "Till The End Of The Moon", due to technicalities combined with intensive traditional artistic techniques which I have mentioned. ]
and
[ Currently ranked #4 on Maoyan’s annual chart after garnering more than 1.8 billion views within 39 days of broadcasting makes “Whispers of Fate” the fastest-moving entry of 2025 to move up the Maoyan chart. As of 6 December, exceeded 4.9 billion views on MangoTV’s front-end broadcast statistics. According to CSM data, 2.838 billion viewers were reached across all platforms. Despite having aired only recently, "Whispers of Fate" received nomination for CPOP 2026 (only other two dramas within these 3 years to be recognised and nominated were “Joy of Life” and “Till The End Of The Moon”).
16 days ago on 1 December, the statistics were already outstanding enough to make people believe "Whispers of Fate" is the #1 C-Drama of 2025: https://kisskh.at/755725-shui-long-yin#comment-24330788 ]
kwanto is the Data Master putting together all relevant statistics, and the results from 7 days ago are here: https://kisskh.at/discussions/755725-shui-long-yin/146888-shui-long-yin-whispers-of-fate-3weeks-post-svip-finale-achievements