kathleentheturtle

LMAO YES~! And the part where he blurted out that Princess Yuchang adores LBY and comes to the manor to visit often, to only retract that statement just seconds later...

This dynamic duo is amazing!!! I love how they play off each other along with LBY too. The director and crew along with the actors do such a phenomenal job in timing of the moments, from dialogues to expressions.

Our modern lens aren't illegitimate. We're in an era where it is accepted and more of the norm vs. the timeframe back then. We do know women deserve better, and still even now, equality rights are still a work in progress, in many countries.

WindBlows! I absolutely love your analysis on things I missed too. Gunna send a friend request over in hopes that we’ll continue bumping into each other and bonding online over great dramas.

Please add away. I was pulling things I could remember, and I was writing my message at 2am, so I am positive I missed things. Glad you added more. I absolutely agree about the feelings of LBY’s crush to love. Adding on to what you said too in regards to the aftermath of the rebel attack, along with her resourcefulness and his awe of her, he practically had offered his heart to her then and there when she treated his injury. I think he had so much hope like you said where she didn’t judge him, but then later on, I think it broke his heart when he heard her talking to Luo Yao at the little girl’s gravesite about how she hates people who shed blood. (Even though LBY’s subordinates mentioned that they kill to protect others.)

Absolutely accurate about LBY being a dark character. In another story, or through someone else’s lens, he could have easily been the villain with little redemption. And I think the difference is always that while the past defines us greatly, it’s also what we do with that knowledge and our actions. I feel so much for LBY like how you pointed out, that despite being loved by the emperor, his life in the palace was not glitz and glam. The emperor is busy stabilizing the newly founded country, and with that, there isn’t always time to protect LBY during his childhood from the mechanisms and schemes of the inner court. Which makes it heartfelt that CSS is willing to take a step forward in their relationship (though frustratingly slow at times, but understandable) to learn about him and his past.

YES!!! The entire engagement with LY was awful timing. He was injured and away, and that moment slipped away from him. Out of respect for CSS, he adhered to her decision, and I also agree that if CSS had given LBY any encouragement, or in fact, any inkling of having second thoughts in even marrying LY, LBY would have found a way to dissolve that engagement.

I always think of what Dramaahjumma has said, (have you read her ramblings? https://40somethingahjumma.substack.com/ They’re an absolute delight!) how someone so ordinary wouldn’t have wanted to marry someone so extraordinary like CSS. Despite CSS saying she wants to live an ordinary life, I don’t think she would have been happy with what an ordinary life with its restrictions would be. Of her suitors, the best match would be LBY, given his resources and power, to help her with her goals and aspirations. Yes, it isn’t balanced in that regards where LBY is the one who has more power in their relationship, but given the time and era as well, he is the best partner for her. I think that later on, as she matures and grows, she’ll be just as formidable with her own merits to boot.

You’re right! I totally forgot that she did show her vulnerability when she cried in the carriage after believing she’s unlucky to not even get to marry LY. She did instinctively trust him. AWWW. Which makes the scene where she willingly ran into his arms after she was shoved into the pond, makes it even more poignant in the shift of her feelings towards LBY.

I love our discussions and hope we’ll bump into each other again in the threads!

I feel sometimes watching dramas make it hard because we at times can forget we're also looking and examining thoughts and stories, and judging (I'm guilty of this) with our modern lens. It's why I love stories where you find characters who despite being born possibly in the wrong place and the wrong time, they find ways to navigate their world as best as they can given what they know and can at the time. I hope you're able to find enjoyment in the drama regardless, and if not, you'll find something you end up loving.

their dialogue was hilarious too! How he said she was just as cruel as LBY and a pair made in heaven. LOL

agreed, and we saw her use the foundation of that skill at the end of ep.36 against 5th prince when she yanked him into the water to sober up.

I actually don't find this irrelevant at all. In that scene, when Zisheng asked her what happened, she didn't tell him the truth. He could read it right away, but he didn't press the matter, and instead "changed the subject". Which it was really just an excuse to hold her further under the guise of showing her an important pressure point. Which it then lead to her asking that aside from this, is there more he could teach her, to which Zisheng asked what she wanted to learn. I think by then, he knew she was bullied by the information she revealed in asking him to teach her how to defend herself, because he's intuitive and smart, but she was not going to tell him what really happened.

Ohh, I love this discussion and remember writing something for this in the discussion thread of the first part of LLTG. So I am going to take a gander again at analyzing your questions.

1. According to the novel, it was love at first sight. So I sincerely appreciated that they changed so much of that here. I think he fell for her through a series of events. It was not from her hand, but their first interaction piqued his interest. Since LBY grew up in the palace, he’s also met all types/kinds of women, and people who are constantly after him for marriage prospects given his accomplishments as a young general. The fact that CSS didn't get to grow up and be raised by her parents, and she was living in a run-down part of town at the beginning of the drama, makes LBY curious initially. His background in some aspects, is similar to hers where it was discussed in the drama that he was initially starving for family affection and would ask the servants in the palace to eat with him, despite having a doting father-figure in the emperor. Since he grew up in the palace, I think he was exposed to bullying and scheming since young, and those who fawn over him apparently don’t care enough to really get to know him, because all they seem to care for is his status and looks. It was a breath of fresh air for him when he encountered CSS and the rest of the Cheng family later on who aren’t fawning over him and making fools of themselves to get his attention.

The first encounter between LBY and CSS probably left an intriguing impression on him, because she would turn over her family member to do what is right. This perhaps also means a lot to him as well because it’s a case he’s working on that is very tied to his heart, being linked to the possibility of the demise of the Huo Clan with his uncle. Then later on, CSS sent him “gifts” in the form of clues with the hay and piece of fabric to help him continue his investigation. I think by then, he was quite impressed and in awe by her intelligence (which I love that they didn’t do love at first sight like in the novel), and her sense of justice. She piqued his curiosity and interest, leaving an impression that is hard to forget for him. Which makes it even more endearing when he sees her at the lantern festival, the first time, without knowing, that both of them were there to experience it as adults I believe. And it must have been there that in seeing her, he developed a crush on CSS. I think the crush grew a bit more when he witnessed CSS kick Princess Yuchang’s henchman into the pond (when the princess was pretending to drown so LBY could save her), foiling the princess’s plan. Then from there on out, the flame kept growing… when LBY saved CSS from the fires, and then working with her to retrieve the map, syncing together their plan for that bridge scene, to how he went out of his way despite his injury, to save CSS during the attack against the rebels. I think LBY was practically in love with her by the time she had removed the arrow to treat his injury. Hook, sink, and liner!

2. I don’t think CSS fell for LBY much in part 1. But she definitely noticed him, because how can a girl not given everything that transpired between them. I just don’t think she allowed those thoughts to even grow. She was probably in awe when he saved her, but she didn’t even know LBY and Zisheng are one and the same. Even at the banquet for Princess Yuchang, when all the girls were making fun of her, as a joke, she even said something along the lines of how “Oh, it’s just him. He’s interested in me but I was never interested in him” and yet it turned out that when he walked in, he introduced himself and said those words back to her…only for her to piece together that LBY and Zisheng are one and the same. He was always an outlier to her I believe, because frankly, she couldn’t quite read him. She defied Yuan Shen’s words and argued with him constantly, Lou Yao (LY) was like a puppy who followed her at every whim, but LBY was a completely different beast. As soon as CSS got engaged to LY, I don’t think she quite allowed herself to think of LBY as a potential, or someone she was interested in. During ep. 16 of the drama, where she and her family have returned from Hua County and are waiting in queue to get back into the city, LBY comes out and escorts her family in. There was a scene when LBY rides across her carriage where there’s the curtain that separates them, and she notices him. I felt that moment was where she must have been touched and in awe of him, but she shut it down real quick, because even as LY was talking about how magnanimous LBY was, that all the ladies in the capital would fall for him, CSS was quick to shift the conversation back to their engagement, and in essence I feel, shutting down any possible indecisive thoughts that might have even surfaced. I don’t think she even thought it was even possible anyways, because LY was the only one to her who outright said he wanted to marry her, and she believing how she’s had bad luck and no love, this marriage to LY was going to be the best she could get. I think the slow burn love is from her side, because even in ep. 24 when he proposed marriage, I think she was touched about his words, but she still felt coerced into that and had no choice under pressure in front of the emperor.

3. I think she started to fall for LBY in the revelation at the end of ep. 27 after she examined her thoughts. I don’t think she loved him then, but based on her conversation with her parents, how there isn’t a perfect man, but that you can work together to have a meaningful relationship and marriage. Then re-examining everything LBY had done for her, she came to the conclusion that she could see herself married to LBY. I think the scenes after shows that her love for him is beginning to grow, slowly and gradually over the time frame. There was many scenes that built up the momentum for the love, beginning with the first kiss he gave her on the forehead as they were overlooking the city, to the moment when she missed him on one of the days he didn’t show up with his carriage to pick her up to send her to the palace, or to her wanting to learn more about him and his past, and to realizing it was him who saved her and the crown prince from her botched tiger tally job. It took Qiqi straightening her thoughts in the way she tallied up what LBY did for her, and what he got mad at her for, for her to realize that she couldn’t take LBY for granted. She then agreed that she would do her best to treat him well. We got see that with CSS packing lunch for LBY and having it delivered to him. But I think the major shifting point in her relationship with him that drove it deeper was when she was vulnerable in front of him (something she rarely does ever to anyone) with her anguish after being bullied, and ran into his embrace for comfort. And when he told her her his life was hers, and that anything she requested from him, he would grant it, I think she saw him in a completely different light, and I think her love was built gradually over time but made steadfast in these very moments. When she looked at him lovingly at the banquet and drank the wine from his cup , it was also her initiating this, as was that kiss she gave him on the cheek. This was all of her own will.

Forgive my ramblings. I would love to hear your thoughts too! 😊

wait what! I was hoping it would even be on a grander scale for the real thing in the drama. LOL

Aww, but we can see them in red and white robes again for the couple’s wedding right??? LOL.

The scene I am referring to is in ep. 32 around the 35 min. mark in the episode, and it was whe LBY was upset at CSS and mentioned that because of what she did, she essentially served the empress and the crown prince on a chopping board against the court.

I absolutely agree about how we’re shown that clearly the crown prince isn’t fit nor competent to be in his position.

Thank you so much for taking the time to respond to my thoughts! Yea, I agree that at this point, we already know LBY is the one who’s been dancing to CSS’ tune. He’ll do whatever he can to protect her, so it was odd. However, if what you said is true, OMG! That’s awesome. You’re right. I will have to go back and watch, because with his character, it would be in character of him to make her go home. But what made me question it is, because on the surface level, it does appear that he’s bending rules for her. I love what you broke down for me regarding how CP would not be able to throw CSS under the bus without burning the bridge…Ah, wow, how did I miss this. Thank you, thank you! I do know LBY’s tally is a bit different based on what he had said to his subordinates, but it would be enough to fool everyone. LBY is definitely cunning and intelligent, after all, he is a young general with great accomplishments and accolades to boot. Those weren’t earned by standing around looking pretty in armour. However, I wish it wasn’t to elevate him that they brought down CSS a bit. I want to believe that her learning moment is to come too, and that this will continue to show her as intelligent and formidable next to LBY. Love your analysis and discussion, friend! I hope we’ll have many more to come.

I would be quite curious as well to hear why you don't feel ZLS fits the role of Cheng Shaoshang/Niaoniao. I have watched ZLS’s other dramas before, and while some people feel she “plays the same type of characters”, I respectively disagree. Maybe her role here in LLTG has elements of similarities to some of her characteristics in her role of “Romance of Tiger & Rose” and “Female Arrives at the Imperial College”, but I think she played different characters as well in “Who Rules the World” and “The Long Ballad”. I have not watched all of ZLS’s dramas, nor do I plan to, but the ones I’ve seen, for me…her role here in LLTG is her best performance. She has a very natural knack for comedy, because her timing and expressions are spot on. Her role as a 15yr old girl who is coming of age and learning about the world, love, and struggles also feels very real to me in ZLS’s delivery. If this show continues the way it is, I think they will do a spectacular job with ZLS in her role showing a smart, immature, but starved-for-love girl, who goes through life and grows into a mature, intelligent, and formidable woman. For me, a show/drama is always memorable when I can walk away thinking there is no one else that I could see fit this role, and it’s been the case for me with ZLS as Cheng Shaoshang/ Niaonao, as goes for WL as Ling Buyi/Zisheng. I can’t see anyone else filling in their spots and be able to give the performance the way these two have respectively.

I do understand that sometimes when we read a story/book we love, and it’s made into a novel or show adaptation, there are elements that will never satisfy the audience 100%. Granted, dramas/shows and actors and actresses are all subjective to each individual’s preferences. Would love to hear some areas where you felt ZLS fell short in her performance. And it’s also okay to agree to disagree.

If you're talking about my thoughts, it's the comment right below in spoilers :)

Yea, I love that about this show. That we have so much differing views and yet so much love for the drama too! :)

thank you, drama friend!

OMG. I just realized the screenwriter is Fei Wo Si Cun, who is also known for her tragic and bitter ending stories...so will this be the same as all her signature and previous works? 🤣

I think it's nice that you can go back to rewatch it too, because there are bound to be things we don't pick up the first time around.

I’ll start with the things that bothered me. The engagement scene (please don’t come after me with pitchforks LOL). I did love that Zisheng and Niaoniao had the engagement ceremony because there were moments between the couple that was subtle but really sweet in their development towards each other. However, I felt we didn’t need the entourage of the empress, emperor, and consort. Yes, the crew is acting as the elders/parents for Zisheng, but I felt the scene wasn’t as necessary other than awe-ing everyone and giving Grand Princess Ruyang her comeuppance about being banished from the palace and sent to the monastery. Consort Yue already gave her a good roasting at the memorial service and that scene was so powerful. To use it again here in some ways didn’t feel strong to me. Zisheng didn’t have to bring in the big guns of his crew against Grand Princess Ruyang or his stepmom, because he easily could have had his black guards kick them out. Zisheng is already given free-reign from the emperor, so I didn’t feel the need to have emperor, the empress, and the consort to show up again. For me, it almost negates the powerful scene at the memorial where the consort already served everyone their just deserts. The consort told Zisheng if anyone has a bone to pick with his wife-to-be, consider it bullsh*t. The emperor followed up on that with allowing Zisheng to marry whomever he wanted, and not marry if he didn't want to, so I felt that was already powerful and served the purpose . I know many people loved the “big guns” coming in to the engagement ceremony with Zisheng, but it didn’t work for me.

In fact, what I loved in that scene was QiQi and Niaoniao’s mom stepping in right away to protect Niaoniao from being slapped. It was nice to see the people who aren’t in powerful positions delve out justice and protecting a loved one in the same manner.

Niaoniao also got incredibly lucky with her revenge against the 3rd princess in burning her robes, because of how everything else unraveled in her favor, but that was sheer dumb luck and not something finely executed in the same way where she planned the bridge collapsing in retaliation. Yes, the arena in which she is in is different, but it’s why sometimes I think someone of her intelligence and calibre would take more time to think of how she would do this. While I can also understand that it is in Niaoniao’s character to exact revenge at any opportunity that presents itself, to do so during the memorial service of Zisheng’s beloved uncle rubbed me the wrong way.

Then in the later episodes, what bothered me was the sequence of Zisheng telling Niaoniao how dangerous it was that she meddled in the crown prince’s affairs. Because of her indirect action, she handed the crown prince and empress over to easily be cooked alive essentially in the court. However, he went and negated that (yes I know he loves her and will do what he can to protect her) when he apologized to her about being upset and raising his voice. I felt it undermined his advice to her, and instead it looks like someone indulging a bratty kid without allowing her to examine his words and grow from there. I wish it was a bigger deal for her to understand the implications that she could have endangered her family and her life too in creating a fake tiger tally, where Zisheng came in to save the day. They really brushed over that, where I felt it could have been such a great teaching moment for her and Zisheng to grow together. It would have been great to then showcase her intelligence in understanding how all these actions have consequences and allow her to develop better skills in surviving and strategizing in the palace.

(I also felt the conversation between Niaoniao and the empress regarding the galaxy in reference to the title of the drama was really forced. It could have been done better instead of just trying to use the word 'galaxy' as much as they could.)

Okay, so after the critiques, I can gush about the parts I love:

Thank goodness for the best kind of friend a girl can ask for in Qiqi. I am so grateful that Qiqi was there to point out how unfair Niaoniao was being when Niaoniao was weighing the things Zisheng did for her, against what negated the good things. Thank goodness Qiqi brought sense to the table and explained how the scales weren’t the same in that regards.

I truly love the sweet, subtle gazes Zisheng has throughout their moments together in these episodes, like when he gets his first lunch box delivered by the eunuch from Niaoniao. That little joy he carried on his face as he held it, and the little skips to his steps were so precious. I cracked up at how he excused himself from the minister who was telling him how lucky he was. After all this, you realize how easy it is to win over this boy with the tiniest gestures.

Niaoniao’s expression (bravo to ZLS) was utterly perfect too when she looked annoyed at the emperor for rewarding Zisheng for her hard work with the desserts she worked hard on to serve to everyone. It captured that annoyance and unfairness she felt.

I think enough of us have already swooned over the heart rendering scene when Zisheng came to visit Niaoniao and she cried more in his embrace. (I’ll forgive the proper protocol of a guy visiting a girl at night in the palace, propriety be damned because it worked wonderfully here. LOL). This scene was more romantic to me than that first kiss on the lips between them. Since we gush enough about the scene, I want to mention my absolute appreciation in the intonation of Zisheng’s voice (thank you to WL for doing a spectacular job), when he said her name and asked with great concern of what had happened. It was really gentle and so sweet because you know he felt so helpless and could only comfort her, but so much of that was also carried in his voice.

Then at the banquet when Niaoniao saved the best gift of the poem for the empress and said it’s from Zisheng…it was such a sweet gesture. She really did save the best for last, because Zisheng wouldn’t have known about something so dear to the empress, but Niaoniao would, and she bestowed that favor on Zisheng. Finally, all the little moments we’ve waited for, for Niaoniao to reciprocate Zisheng’s affections…I could see it when Niaoniao gazed lovingly at Zisheng, acknowledging how wonderful her husband-to-be is through the scene with them sharing his winecup, followed by that sweet kiss she bestowed on him. It’s so endearing and the first time she’s done something like that of her own free will. And Zisheng’s expression with that the small smile filled with so much joy was just so beautiful and precious. Totally fangirling here, and I am proud of it.

Lastly, I loved that she was able to use what Zisheng taught her in self-defense against the 5th prince. LOL. I hope she does gain an ally and friend in the 5th prince.

My critique from this week’s episodes (31-26) might be of the minority view, but I would love to share my thoughts and had written this to discuss with my close friends who are also watching LLTG. I had some issues with the episodes this week, even though I loved a lot of it too, and still absolutely LOVE the drama. So here it goes in the comment beneath in the spoiler tag: