babepiggie

TLB Rewatch: Episode 14

Welcome aboard! :)

Yes, poor Mu Jin and She'er too. :( I like both characters but tragedies are part of life. Hope both meet good women later in life.

I wouldn't say Changge gave up her princess position for love because she really didn't care for being a princess. Even though Ah Sun is fine with staying in Chang'An with her as long as he's with her, Changge knew she cannot live there. She and Li Shimin made peace with each other but there are too many memories and it's best that she starts fresh with Ah Sun at the grasslands where they both will have more freedom and live the simple life they both want. She will always love her country but it's fitting that she can build a new home elsewhere as long as Ah Sun is by her side.

The famous third wish, I think quite a few of us speculate that it was something suggestive and too mature to show on screen. LOL. I like his teasing of the third wish and Changge is likely too innocent to know what he is implying by the expression on her face. :P

I LOVE your wish list! Your thread is buried under these massive amount of posts (not complaining, love the activity!); otherwise I would have commented earlier! One criticism I have read about Gesun's romance is the lack of reciprocation on Changge's part. From the drama, others felt that Ah Sun showcased more affection towards her than vice versa. I don't feel their romance is lacking but I do admit that Ah Sun is more expressive of his love because (1) he fell first and (2) Changge is shy and reserved when it comes to the matters of the heart. So if any of the wishes you listed were included in the drama, I think it will help dispel this criticism. To me, it's not necessary because I love their relationship but I do agree it's "nice to have".

Yes, yes, yes to the "You're my husband" and tree sitting is the perfect spot for them to discuss this. I felt Changge should have brought up that she read the letter and say to Ah Sun, "You're my husband now" and in return, Ah Sun would tuck the one strand behind her ear and tenderly say "And you're my wife."

I also think there should be a moment that Ah Sun is smitten by her beauty and I think her Tang princess attire is perfect. I would insert this scene in the drama by having Ah Sun wait in the gardens for Changge so she can introduce him to her mother. His back is to the door and he hears her approaching and turns around and is in awe by her beauty. I think Changge dresses femininely in her mother's presence (perhaps her mother insisted on it). In my mind, it makes sense to have that scene to be "wow, she's beautiful" moment.

I would also love a scene with Changge, Ah Sun and little Yuan but I'm not sure where it should happen. Obviously, probably when they were in Luoyang. Maybe they can have a "family" outing and GeSun is holding Yuan's hands or Ah Sun can be carrying her as they stroll through the streets of Luoyang? Scenes with the three of them will be so precious and Yuan is too freaking adorable that the couple cannot help but dote on her!!

Good point on Ah Sun being inspired by Changge's skills and bravery!! I forgot the scene where Ashile Sun was in favor of training girls in his tribe and having them step outside of the typical gender roles. I remembered Mu Jin's shocked expression too because it was forward thinking but yep, it was because he met Li Changge that he realized how capable females can be. That Eagle tribe will be lethal with Ah Sun and Changge leading the charge (I am assuming they went back to the Eagle tribe at the end).

I don't see anything wrong if Ashile Sun likes Changge thinking he's a male. Homosexuality exists throughout history so if he is interested in the person (regardless of sex), I have no issues with that. However, this is not a BL story nor did it happen in the drama. I also do not think Ah Sun was romantically interested in Changge during the cuju match. He admired her acumen and how she was able to turn the game around with her tactics. It is nothing more than admiration at this point and it just manifests into something more as he interacts with her and sees all her wonderful qualities. When he realizes that she's a girl, the choice was just obvious to him. He must love, protect and marry this girl. End of story.

Hi! Hope to participate in many good TLB conversations with you! :)

Li Shimin's love for Changge is actually one of the highlights for me and was well presented throughout the drama. They were shown to be close since she was a baby (she smiled for her uncle and not her daddy when she was a baby) and there were sprinkles of flashbacks of young Changge with her uncle as he taught her many lessons from martial arts to military tactics. On top of that, the drama confirmed that he loved her mother so I presume the love for her mom carried over to her since she was young. Their relationship dynamic was compelling and his love for her and assertions not to harm her throughout the drama was one of the redeeming qualities of Li Shimin.

The Ashile tribe is very military oriented and the Great Khan did pit Ah Sun and She'er against each other to stimulate their competitive streak. I think Ah Sun grew up to be a honorable man was probably due to his foster mother's caring and having a tribe of loyal men supporting him. She'er was probably raised by his father early on and perhaps the father was also a good man (I don't remember if the drama delve into his relationship with his father). I know he had limited interaction with his mother growing up (which is a good thing that she did not brainwash him with her grand plans to revive the Sui Dynasty). The question can also be asked why evil men have good parents? It's more than just environment that contribute to that.

Chemistry is subjective and some people gravitate to the lead couple while others like the second couple. The actual manhua is much less romance oriented and the second couple was not even written in the original story so I believe the drama intended to target a wider audience by offering more couple options. I am surprised that you felt the real age (age 21) of Leo in his portrayal of Ashile Sun. He amazed me by giving a very mature performance so much that his character really matched well with Reba's portrayal. Reba does not look much older IMO and Leo does have a boyish look to him but seeing him in the Ashile tribal attire made him seem very mature and manly. But it was more of his mannerisms and acting that I see the maturity of his character. Yes, Li Changge is a strong female and this is her story but Ashile Sun is an equally compelling counterpart to this heroine and truly balances and complements her to perfection. He will take the lead when he needs but he will step back and supports her if asked of him and Reba and Leo are able to capture the essence of both characters in their performances.

I watched Nirvana in Fire for the first time early this year and it's a masterpiece! My Caucasian boyfriend watched it with me and was amazed as well! I was surprised that he had the patience to watch such a long drama (he only viewed one Cdrama before) but it was so gripping that we could not help but chase episode after episode. And the payoff (justice) at the end was tears worthy (I cried). I love every character , even the villains are compelling. I don't think any Cdrama can ever top this amazing drama in terms of acting, plot and execution. I probably should do a rewatch of NIF next year because I'm sure I missed important details that make the viewing experience that much better.

Rewatch is not really my thing but I might consider another viewing of TLB I did miss some aspects on my initial run.

I will post one last message on this topic to clarify my perspective of Haoyan’s relationship and let’s agree to disagree.

You asked the question why there’s a need for realization from Leyan. Because as a viewer who watched the show in its entirety and was spoil free through all 49 episodes, I did not know which character she would end up with – Hao Du or Shuyu. For 40+ episodes, she was pining after Shuyu and even endangered her own life to travel with him. To me, she acted like a girl in love. You might call it infatuation (I see it differently). I did not have preconceived notions that she would end up with Hao Du and never really sensed that she was romantically interested in him leading up to the competition. Even moments before, she approached Shuyu and inquired if he would fight and she wanted him to, so yes, at that moment, I naturally would think she was still in love with Shuyu. So when the fight ended and she was bawling her eyes out, you called it the moment she realized she loved Hao Du, I think it was a leap of faith because there was no strong indication prior to that. I do not fault others if they presumed it was guilt and gratitude that made her so emotional (I’m in that agreement as well). The realization of love on her end was important to show the audience because her feelings for both men were ambiguous leading up to that moment. That was why I think it would be helpful to have a scene where she could reflect on what her feelings might be for Hao Du (my comment on the maid) so that when the moment you noted that you believed she loved Hao Du, it would be easier for the viewer to digest. Because prior to that, scenes show that Hao Du loved her and that she was still interested in Shuyu in a romantic sense. I personally felt like her emotions went from point A to point D. Where were B and C for me to connect the dots because it was unclear to me when she stopped liking Shuyu to the point where she loved Hao Du? You have made assertions that it is obvious or that they do not matter but IMO, they do. If you knew the couple will be together prior to watching the drama, it will be easier for you to accept the events leading up to the competition, so perhaps you don’t need that spell out to you. For me, I was spoiler free the entire viewing experience so yes, it would make more sense to have that scene to scene connection.

On the contrary, no obvious self-realization scenes are necessary for GeSun couple because their feelings for each other are very clear from the beginning. It’s been just these two in their own love bubble. It is always a matter of time as to when Changge will reciprocate Ah Sun’s feelings so as a viewer, I don’t need that “Ah ha!” moment so I don’t get the comparison at all. They don’t need their heart felt sentiments spelled out because their feelings for each other are not ambiguous.

Who is to say Leyan will not be happy with Shuyu if he did fight for her hand? Shuyu has always cared about her and will protect her. He’s an honorable man and if he married her, I believe he will be a good husband to her and she can have a fulfilling life and marriage. Will she know any different that she is missing out on some great love by not being with Hao Du? You’re also assuming that a good marriage is based on love but marriage can also be strong based on compatible values and mutual respect. She can be happy with Shuyu too. But that is a moot point anyway. I am not keen on Leyan’s romance to evaluate any further and I don’t have a preference who is her ultimate love; I just need the drama to explain it clearly to me and from that I will make the determination if their romance is worthy of my interest and investment. In my eyes, it failed to do that for me. I will leave it at that. Thanks for sharing.

I think Ashile Sun said that phrase when he was trying to leave Chang An. I hope I am right on this one because I have performed terribly in this game. (pray)

The second person to say it...I want to say Minister Du? This is a pure guess.

I also echo Anya and gesun bird eggs’ sentiments about the realization of Leyan’s feelings for Hao Du. If she truly realized she was in love with Hao Du before he was hurt, it was not obvious based on her actions leading up to the fight for her hand in marriage. Moments before she wanted Shuyu to participate because he was the one she liked and wanted to marry. I have no doubts in my mind that if Shuyu fought for her and won and she would have happily married him. She did not feel conflicted or shown to have romantic feelings towards Hao Du. Positive feelings? Yes. Friendship? Yes. Did she realize he might be in love with her? I think so. He did hug her in the streets when he thought he lost her again. I felt one or two scenes needed to happen to better transition and show that she felt love for Hao Du before he was beaten to a bloody pulp. Perhaps after she slapped him and told him off, her maid could have commented why she was so hurt and upset? Maybe she could be shown to reflect why her reaction was so extreme (she's not a violent person so the slap is harsh in my opinion) – because she cared about him and thought he loved and respected her. To further cement her feelings for Hao Du before the fight, the scene with Shuyu should not happen because it implies that she has moved on from her feelings for him. To have that scene, it shown her to be fickle or at least naïve about love.

I am also left with the impression she felt gratitude to Hao Du for risking his life for her and I’m perfectly fine if she felt that way at the time. During that period, many marriages were not built on love but after marriage, it can be shown that she is touched and moved by his actions and slowly falls in love with him over time. I think some of the beats are missed on their romance because of the limited number of episodes and perhaps the editing team left out crucial scenes that might make Leyan’s transition of feelings more evident.

On the side, the competition for her hand in marriage was poorly executed. First, her father did not even bother to show up for an event that decides her happiness. Second, the crop of men was lackluster and then we have Changge in the background urging Ah Sun to participate and he adamantly refused. The highlight was obviously Hao Du fight with She’er but I wish there was another good candidate . Maybe the King of Mobei should have come and participated? He’s so beautiful and might have some reasons to be part of the fray (to build better relations with the Tang dynasty). Haha!

Thank you very much for the tidbit on Chinese history. Not surprising that many officials have familial relations with the imperial family through political marriages. The scriptwriters could have penned the story of Fang Yi'ai rather than Wei Shuyu if he was more honored and had more political clout. It might be garner a better viewing experience for those who saw Shuyu as useless.

Such interesting read! I wonder if Minister Fang's son (if he was an actual person during the Tang dynasty) had any political merit? I assume Minister Fang was a real person.

Yeah, I’ve been gone for a while but I do like the character Wei Shuyu and I am aware of the actor and other posters’ sentiments about this character’s uselessness. I don’t believe he’s a character in the manhua so I do blame the writing team for incorporating a new character in the drama but not utilizing the character correctly. It seems like he’s used to create friction between the two main couples but is poorly executed. I rather this character is not added so I lay the blame on the writing team. He could have been written to have more political impact.

Although in the minority, what I do like about his character is that he’s very realistic. Romantic love is not the ultimate for a young man and that in life, a man has to make tough choices and be torn over these decisions. He is very credible in his relationship approach and I do admire that he is considerate of Changge’s choice (with Ah Sun at the end) and no petty jealousy or devious schemes are exhibited. I also like that although he cares for Leyan, he respects her not to lead her on or make promises that he couldn’t keep. Perhaps I have seen too many cliché love triangles that it is refreshing to see a young man who does not need romantic love to seek purpose in life.

Thank you for your detailed responses. Not until I read your comments did I realize how many questions were on my original post! Sorry about that! My main concern was if the adaptation captured the essence of the manhua and happy to read that it did for the most part. I get that the drama modified its contents to attract a wider audience and it was more romance oriented compared to the manhua to lure more viewers. This part I do agree was a smart decision and had no problems with the change. I am pleased to know Changge’s bravery exists in both the drama and manhua which is important.

I am surprised to read that Li Changge was gray in the manhua and had a ruthless streak. Personally, I am not opposed to seeing that play out on screen, especially during a war setting where every advantage counts – I think the callous behavior is justified when she is trying to combat invaders and protect her country. As long as the drama balances out this insensitivity with some humane and softer side of the character and with her exhibits of bravery, the outcome might add more depth to the character in my eyes. To be honest, I have been waiting for Reba to portray gray characters so I think if the script was written closer to the manhua, it might add more layers to Reba’s performance if the ruthless streak was shown. Just my two cents.

One area that I wish was added or better portrayed was Changge’s connection to the king of Mobei. I read in the comments section that he is her maternal uncle and they have many good scenes in the manhua. I wish that have been played out on screen. I also did not enjoy the last fire scene with Changge and Khatan. That was lazy writing IMO.

I also did not care for Leyan’s self-journey but do understand that drama is conveying the parallel of both girls’ process of growth and strength. I know the character of Leyan did not exist in the manhua and she is not integral part of Changge’s story (other than being her best friend/cousin) so I do find that side story to be more a distraction than not. It was a good strategic move to have Lusi star in this role to garner more viewing traffic for the drama and I read that her story and romance with Hao Du did attract many viewers. To me, it was a good business decision and you’re right, the production team had to make tough choices to add or eliminate characters or storylines to attract more mainstream audience. Perhaps more episodes and better editing might give me more satisfaction with the drama.

About the manhua author, I was aware that she is part of the writing team and consented to changes made to the adaptation. I read that she did not like love triangles (bless her!), so that was great. I am curious though what was her intended ending? The drama is restricted due to censorship, pertaining to Li Shimin as the drama is not allowed to blacken one of the best emperors of China. With the freedom of manhua, how much different would the ending be? Perhaps, it might not be different at all. Very curious to know. Hopefully the manhua can be completed one day so there will be an answer to that question.

I do really the love the drama and all the positives overwhelmingly override any of the nitpicking things I wish could be changed. I know a drama is hard to satisfy everyone’s taste but this long post is just my musings or observations. No offence intended!

May I ask, how many times have visitors here watched TLB? I must confess, I only watched it once. I’m not the type to rewatch dramas but I might do so for TLB if Netflix picks it up. I’m more inclined to view it again hoping for better translation quality (my first viewing was on Vikki). I’m embarrassed to admit that I did poorly in Sakie’s trivia game - I probably got 50% of the questions correctly. :P

Out of curiosity, for those who read the manhua and watched the drama, what are your thoughts of the TLB adaptation? Obviously the manhua is not complete due to legal dispute but for comparison sake, how does it compare in terms characters’ personalities and storylines (based on where the manhua left off)? I have not read the manhua but read comments that Changge’s personality is different in the drama where she’s more impulsive and reckless compared to the manhua where she might be more deliberate and her military acumen is more prominent. I also read somewhere that Ah Sun is not very bright in the manhua, different from the drama where he is portrayed as almost flawless.

Also, were there aspects in the manhua such as certain story lines that you thought should be included in the drama but were not? In your opinion, in terms of adaptation, did the drama measure up to the manhua? Were you disappointed? Did it exceed your expectations? From my years of watching C-dramas, I know a drama adaptation can never be exactly true to the original work but I would hope the essence of the story is still retained in the adaptation. For instance, I know the drama fast paced disclosing Changge as a girl to Ah Sun and the romance was sped up dramatically compared to the manhua. For me, that would be a positive for the drama because I don’t want to sit through 20 episodes of Ah Sun not knowing Changge is a girl per manhua, which would not make for good viewing experience. Sorry for so many questions but I would love to hear others’ thoughts!

Awesome! Congrats to Reba, Leo and the entire TLB team! :)

Was Shuyu indecisive though? From the beginning, it was very clear to me that the woman he wanted was Changge. It was due to circumstances that put them at odds. He chose his family and country and because of that choice, Changge viewed it as a betrayal and unable to reconcile with it. It was much later that both were able to move past it. Not to say that if Shuyu decided to support and side with Changge that she would return his feelings. It was evident to me that she brother-zoned him from the beginning and she knew Leyan had feelings for him so she would not let herself be romantically involved with Shuyu. He was also very decisive in not reciprocating Leyan’s feelings so in my opinion, he knew what he wanted in a relationship. It was unfortunate that it did not work out for him.

I see Shuyu as a very practical and adaptable person. He has regrets towards Changge but I don’t believe he would refuse to marry because of his love for her. I can see him in a political marriage or marrying for companionship. I’m fine with him being a single, wise Tang minister who puts the country’s welfare as a priority. Romance is not the end all to life – there are other fulfilling things he can accomplish that makes his life just as rewarding.

Haha! I love me some eye candy too. Yang Yang and Reba make a gorgeous pair but they both also fit the physical description of the ML and FL in the novel. I just hope the drama does the novel justice. There are only 27 episodes slotted so I don't expect too many filler moments but more than anything hope the plot is not changed too much in the drama from the original novel.

About Reba's eyes, yes, she has beautiful eyes and I think one area she can improve upon is to use her eyes to emote more. That's why I want to see her in a gray/villain type role as I think it will require her to use her eyes and facial expressions to convey more emotions like being calculating or devious.