bri73

I agree. Although I do think it’s a bit hard to take seriously at the moment. I’m not getting “menacing” from most of these guys! It’s clear things are going to get darker and more intense. I just hope they are able to balance it because the goofiness has been a bit over the top so far, it might be a hard sell to get us to buy into a really dark tonal shift.

Same! It was painful. I had to keep pausing. LOL! I’m still enjoying it too but yeah…

Exactly! The responsibility is with the parents not the creators. If you can find it see the comment from @ivy about media literacy somewhere above — they totally nail the explanation of this issue in that comment!

This is so well said! Thank you!

Ok I have two final points and then I think it’s time to put this to rest for now.

And I’d just like to say that I really appreciate that this debate has remained civil. I’m proud of us 🙃

1. For many, the dom/sub dynamic is not at all limited to their sex life. And in a real life scenario that is entirely up to the consenting adults involved. It’s not ok to impose our own view of a happy relationship onto others. (Unrelated but somewhat related thematically — the 2002 film Secretary is one of my favorite movies and it depicts the kind of relationship I’m talking about. )

2. It is NOT the creator’s responsibility to make entertainment that meets anyone’s personal moral standards. It is up to each individual viewer (or the parent/caregiver of a minor) to determine if they want to consume this kind of material. Each of us decides where we draw the line for ourselves only. For example I find TharnType extremely distasteful to the point I won’t finish the series. For me personally, it goes far beyond depicting an unhealthy relationship. So, I elected to stop watching. End of story.

“Does that mean we can't enjoy them in fiction or that we need that fiction to hand hold us and tell us "please don't do this at home"? nah, I certainly don't need that.”

My thoughts exactly!!🙌🏽

Yes, yes, yes x1000!

I do see where you’re coming from and I don’t think there will ever be an easy an answer to this. I wouldn’t condone Lian’s manipulation in real life and if I or a friend were in Kuea’s position I’d say get out now or at least set some clear boundaries right away and communicate better.

I guess my issue with this outlook is that we get into this area of assuming dom/sub relationships are inherently wrong or abusive. (Like the comment about the bottom having to “take orders” — some people just like taking orders.) I don’t think the relationship we are seeing here is healthy (in reality there should OF COURSE be consent and communication) but this is fiction and I think the most important thing is that we are having these discussions outside of the narrative. Hopefully that helps people distinguish between fiction and reality. I don’t think storytelling/wish fulfillment narratives always need to be responsible for showing healthy, ideal relationships. I guess at the end of the day what I’m getting at is that these kinds of storylines are what some people are into and I think that’s ok.

*trigger warning*
I had a long discussion about this in one of my film theory classes when the movie 365 Days first came out. This is a more extreme example obviously, but yes, in the real world kidnapping is a horrible crime but the fact is that it is also a fantasy for some people. There is no way to explore r***/kidnap fantasies in a “healthy” way. I think that outright condemning these narratives kink shames those who are into it and gives too much credit to how much the show or film is able to influence the real world. Studies have shown that there is no connection between violence in media and real world violence. For the most part I think we can trust that reasonable people won’t assume that kidnapping or emotional manipulation are “ok” just because they saw it in a movie. These shows have ratings/age restrictions for a reason and any adult should be able to distinguish these issues and consider them critically.

Ultimately, as I said, I would not condone Lian’s behavior in real life but for this fiction/fantasy a controlling dominant character is just that, a character. Having said all of that I do think it’s also important to represent healthy relationships. I just don’t think every piece of fiction has an obligation to do so. When I need a dose of healthy relationship dynamics I hop over to UWMA and watch any DeanPharm scene! These storylines are important for sure.

I hope no one takes this in the wrong way (although I’m sure some will). This is just my perspective as someone who has an interest in dom/sub dynamics. I hope I’ve expressed myself clearly.

I’ve seen it recommended as a great k-drama bl from a few sources. That doesn’t really mean anything. But I’m hopeful. I’d like to see more of this couple. But you’re right about these mini-series. I think only To My Star has gotten picked for a second season so far. Sometimes I think if they are done right these work better as stand alone movies anyway. For me Where Your Eyes Linger and To My Star are the only ones that really worked with the limited time frame to develop the characters. There were quite a few flops. Wish You made me wish I could get that hour and a half of my life back 😬

Yeah I think that these kinds of fears can be valid when parents say they are afraid for their kids and how they’ll be treated and that life will be harder. But this excuse really frustrates me even if I get where it comes from sometimes! I do think oftentimes they mean well, but then they turn around and put their kids through so much more pain by not supporting them or actively condemning them. In the end, they aren’t protecting them by trying to get them to deny who they are and who they love. The best way to help is to love them unconditionally and be willing to recognize and support who they are. This way the hardships they face won’t be coming from the people they trust the most.

But have we seen any evidence that suggests he would forbid him? Yeah he’s cold and stern but it seems to me that Kuea has been portraying this “good boy” act based on his own insecurities and assumptions. I’m hoping when he get more backstory

That’s fair! If I hadn’t exhausted all my other options I would probably have abandoned it by now. 🙃 But I’ll endure a lot for Zee — even Why R U? was quite hard to get through for me.

What exactly constitutes a fake persona to you then? Lol. Literally noting about the person he presents is genuine to who he really is. His interests and his entire personality are hidden away and replaced by a simpering non-person. Who would love anybody like that?

I don’t know that Lian’s word are that harsh though — he’s being honest from what I can tell. Why would he want to be with a fake doll? He says he wants to marry a human and that’s totally valid. I think if anything Kuea is far more in the wrong here for being so angry that Lian doesn’t love him. I get why he’d be hurt I guess but really why be upset that someone doesn’t love this completely fabricated persona that is nothing like the person you really are.

At the end of the day this couple just needs better communication and sincerity but then would it even be BL?

Lol. I definitely fall into that last category! But if I’m honest, the reason I’m here can probably be summed up in one word: Zee. 🥵

I think it’s all fairly obvious though a bit subtle at times. It’s being revealed bit by bit and there are some hints. Because we are watching from Kuea’s perspective, it makes sense that we’re a little in the dark. But Especially by ep 6 and 7 it’s pretty clear that even though his manipulation tactics may be slightly questionable, Lian just wants Kuea to admit who he truly is.

And as a few others have mentioned I def think some translation errors are not helping. I also have a feeling that ep 8 will be a turning point to understanding more of the dynamics that are at play and the reasons behind Lian’s actions.

I was just thinking this!! It makes so much sense with this added nuance. He doesn’t love the person in front of him at that moment because he’s not real and even if Lian does have some feelings for the “real” Kuea they can’t be called love YET because he can’t truly know that side of him. I’m looking forward to Lian’s perspective being shown in the next episode or two!

I agree! It is frustrating to see this complete 180 from him , but we are following Kuea’s perspective right now so it makes sense that Lian’s motives and feelings are unclear. It’s pretty standard in BL for the viewer’s perspective to be aligned with the more passive partner as that is generally the audience “stand in” — In other words the character we most relate to. It’s also typical of BLs to not find out the seme’s secret motives or explanation of their actions etc until about halfway through or more . I can think of so many examples like 2gether, 2Moons2, Lovely Writer, etc maybe these examples are a little more understated but they show that we don’t often see the true feelings or motives of the dominant partner until later in the story arch. So we should be getting a clearer picture in the next few episodes I would think! The pacing of this feels pretty spot on classic BL to me. (Which honestly makes the plot a bit boring — but damn Zee knows how to turn the heat up. So I’ll def keep watching. Lol 😆)

I don’t think the two leads are too bad and I know the script and direction play a huge role. But especially Sichol is so unwatchable — and that is clearly coming from inexperience but also the director encouraging overacting to the point of cringe.

I 100% agree with the brain dead theory. 💀 I’ll take the visuals for sure but this had such potential to be more than that and it’s frustrating!

Ok, I know we’re barely half way through but this may truly be the worst bl I’ve ever watched. I do think it’s important to not take weak plot points too seriously in this genre but dear god the completely nonsensical plot in this is infuriating. When assistant boy knocked him out to take him to the tailor shop without even asking if he could come to the house instead. Like what?!? I almost died. Just one of many extremely poorly thought out plot points. And I’ve seen a lot of contrived trip and fall “accident” kisses but the TWO that they’ve already had are some of the worst! That first one — I almost choked laughing!

I actually spent so much time laughing hysterically at the story development. Granted we haven’t gotten any of the steaminess yet and the leads are both v attractive (I’m especially a sucker for those ears on Aiaoon) so that might save it a little but I’m just so perplexed at how bad this is. Especially when the concept is finally something reasonably unique! So disappointing!

And don’t get me started on the acting. What is there to say? The fake crying scene with assistant boy is unbearable to watch. I don’t think I’ve ever winced at bad acting this hard or this often in any other series. Lord help them.

Also someone really should have thought to edit out the incessant mouth sounds coming from the actor who plays Nawee. Like what is happening? The only thing going for this show is the two cute leads but seriously? Am I alone on this??