bruh4real

yea that makes sense, I guess I just lack the experience to be able to relate to something like that.

I agree, I'm glad it wasn't TOO problematic but there were some parts that didn't sit well with me but they don't address it very well. The problem got solved in like a 30 second clip which felt lacking and anticlimactic and another issue was never addressed (ep 12).

Overall, I really like these two. I just couldn't relate to how they got together I guess. But at the end of the day, BL is just a show, so I needn't overthink it. Thanks for replying!

yea, Fighter's part I got that as well but I just fail to see Tutor's side. But I guess if I could accept the love at first sight reasoning for Fighter, I can accept the "I LOVE BEING TEASED BY FIGHTER" reasoning...

(Don't read below if you hadn't watched ep 8)

But another awkward part for me is that even after confronting each other's feelings; they felt like they had to "prove" it or confirm it by going to the beach together... before deciding to be boyfriends? which was weird for me... like do you like each other or not?? Hope I made sense here hahah...

I guess what I meant was that, I can't really see the reason why Tutor would like fighter. After all the constant teasing and arguments they have, but somehow Tutor likes Fighter as well is what seemed unreal to me. Especially when fighter got together with his best friend, Hwa. Then she later on disappears from their life... and it's about them two getting closer to each other.

I don't wanna give out too much detail in case I spoil it for you. I like them at/after ep 9 but before that, their relationship felt awkward for me. Can you explain your thoughts and why they seem realistic at the beginning? I wanna hear your perspective if possible, thanks.

I didn't like it when I watched it for the very first time either. Like you, I was freaking confused throughout every episode, especially later when the subs get worse and you have to interpret what they actually want to say... HOWEVER, I will say to make it easier for yourself, focus on like the main two CPs if you want and skip everyone else. Me personally, I only focused on Fighter and Tutor and skipped everyone else (including Saifah and Zon) because only their story stood out to me. and also their story is most developed because their scenes were mostly done before covid hit i believe so later eps focus on them anyways.

I won't say it gets easier because its still confusing especially with the pacing/editing but overall if you get the gist of it, you will be fine. I had to re-weatch this series like 2~3 times to understand FighTor's story because some scenes are up for interpretation and they don't show you what happened... Like when Fighter ends things with Hwa (not really a spoiler since you know he ends up with Tutor anyways) and they don't show that and then shes out of the picture for a good chunk... But I think its really worth it and ep 9 and 10 is a treat, that scene is HOT.

is there a proper order in watching this series?

definitely worth the watch, didn't think I would get THAT emotional going in this series. However, I wish the mystery aspect was better since Mes' death was really obvious.

was it just me or does the relationship between FighTor seem unreal or something was off. Sometimes their relationship felt kinda awkward for me. Don't get me wrong, I watched this show for them since I skipped majority of the others. The chemistry was there... but it was not so convincing to me, if tht makes sense... I think it was because the editing and pacing for this show was such a mess, add in the lack of plot, which made it weird.

Definitely, I really like reading your perspective on this show because of how your own experiences as a CSA survivor changes your view compared to how I viewed it basing off my own experiences.

As for the confusion when referring to abuse survivor, thanks for clarifying and pointing that out. You are totally right, I have not experienced that during childhood so that's why I don't have much I can say regarding the topic and can only see it from my own experience (which is why I like hearing it from your perspective).

As for where our differences lie, you said "I feel Tharn ought not be judged as an assaulter". However, I think I will not be able to excuse Tharn's behavior prior to ep 4. You make a valid point in Tharn being a CSA survivor and how he's learning to love someone in a correct way. I'm not saying he has to be the perfect protagonists, but what the issue I have, again I may sound repetitive, is the lack of communication that addresses the issues.

For example, someone who experiences a loss of a love one to murder then later committing murder themselves does not justify nor excuse them. In my eyes, they will still have committed murder, if that makes sense. That is why, during episode 1-4, what Tharn did will always be considered sexual assault in my eyes regardless of his childhood experiences. If you have watched HIStory 3: Trapped (Spoiler alert if you haven't, skip to the next paragraph), then you'd know that regardless of what Tang Yi did, he still ultimately had to go to jail. and even though he experiences abuse as a child, that does not give him a free pass and being in a relationship with a cop does not give him a free pass. He owned up to his actions and took responsibility and that's what I meant.

So I guess to sum it up (since I know we've been through this long enough LOL), my issue isn't because this show had sexual assault as a theme, but rather only used it as a plot device on a superficial level and doesn't delve into it. It didn't show any of the consequences that came with it, nor did it use it as a chance to have a meaningful talk between two CSA survivors. In which we talk about how majority of the scenes are about sex, in which we talked about the limit in production, etc. I get that love and sex are heavily tied together and are equally important. But I would have preferred to have them communicate with each other than have majority of sex scenes if that makes sense. (Sorry if i keep repeating myself)

And you're right, at the end of the day they are fictional characters, and I honestly would not have thought much more if this was the past me, but part of me growing as a person is being able to identify what is toxic and problematic and being able to have meaningful discussions about it from a social justice stand point (that's why in my original post I mention the representation of LGBTQ+ characters and how misrepresentation is an issue). Because there are people who interprets this show differently from you and I, therefore I believe it's important to speak out on it - as the show doesn't.

As to why I was so harsh on this show from the beginning was again, my own prejudice and basing it off of my own experiences and add in the lack of meaningful dialogue. But hearing it from your perspective definitely changed how I view this series, but probably still will not be any better as all the issues I listed above still persists.

Sorry for all these responses, hahah... and thanks for reading them as well! Hoping S2 will show a healthier side to their story. Hope you have a wonderful day!

Hi, Sorry for the late response!

Firstly, I want to thank you for sharing your personal experience with sexual assault, especially on the internet where it makes you vulnerable and susceptible to personal attacks. Thank you for being brave and putting yourself out there in order to help me gain more insight on this situation.

secondly, I'm sorry if I gave the impression of saying "Type can't possibly like men or bottoming if he was assault as a kid" I did not intend to define the sexual orientation of Type or anyone who had experience sexual assault. I fully know sexual orientation isn't defined by our past and is fluid. I did not meant to say Type can't like men. What I meant was, "why did Type wanted to have sex with someone who triggered the trauma" (and I read someone said that he was experimenting with his sexual orientation and trusted Tharn, in the novel). Why I expected Type to show some form of trauma was because of 1) personal experience and 2) the way the series led me to believe.

I'm not quite sure if what I experienced count as a sexual assault or not. I was under the influence of alcohol at a college party. He asked if I wanted to go to his and I said "Sure". But then he was really rough and when I told him to slow down and be more gentle, he didn't listen. It was so painful, when I told him to stop, there was blood and a little bit of fecal matter when he pulled out. I was so embarrassed and he didn't make it any less awkward, I haven't found the mood for sex after that. I feel so ashamed of myself for letting myself get to that point. I know I told him "sure" but I feel that he is also part of the blame and even to this day, I'm still trying to get over the fact that this happened. I'll let you decide if I can speak on the matter of sexual assault. That's why I thought it would be logical for Type to be hesitant with his first time with Tharn.

I am sorry to assume that Type would show some form of trauma during his first time with Tharn. I thought it would only be logical as Type always showed some form of trauma whenever Tharn touched Type without consent. IE, he will react physically by kicking him or even to the point of shivering in bed, begging Tharn to not hurt him (I forgot which episode this was in). However, you are right. This time, Type gave consent and asked Type to have sex with him, which I totally didn't take that into consideration. So thanks for reminding me that. The reason I didn't take that into consideration was because Type is shown to have a complete 180 change in character for no good apparent reason which left me confused. Therefore, thanks for giving insight on the differences between the novel and series, where if it happened like the novel, things would make so much more sense to me. Thanks for reminding me that, not everyone reacts the same to trauma. That was very inconsiderate on my part.

And you acknowledge the lack of dialogue and communication between the two. and maybe it was due to production costs and all the things you mentioned. But I feel like if they sacrificed one or two sex scenes, and incorporated a meaningful talk between the two, it wouldn't have left viewers so confused as to why Type suddenly just "gave" himself, literally gave himself as a form or payment, to a person who it seemed like he HATED with a passion. And also, thank you for acknowledging what Tharn did prior without Type's consent is problematic because I always hear the praise for this series while people who praise this series do not bring up the issues as well.

Thank you again for listening so well and responding calmly as well.

definitely! thank you for being polite as well although I did harshly judge this series, I'm glad that it didn't offend you. Thank you for sharing your point of view also!

That is an amazing insight to the show and I loved reading your analysis. I think I would have definitely loved this show if it was executed the way you had described it.

I totally agree with you on the PTSD part and how there is no "magical cure" for it, but again they portrayed it so after hooking up with tharn. They weren't even together, and Type's first time with a male after his childhood experience he didn't show any sign of trauma. They just went straight into the sex??? which makes no sense at all if he was still traumatized.

Also with your analysis about Type being gay from the get go. Interesting and I would have thought the same, he obviously can't be fully straight if he let it get this far. But again, the issue is the writing and execution of story. and even if he was gay from the start, does that change anything? does it suddenly make tharn's sexual assault justifiable? I think not. so even if he was gay, it will not change anything. also there is the line where type says "I don't like men, only tharn" which ruins it

Hi, I'm glad you took the time to explain your views on the show and I can see you are very passionate about it. However, I will not respond to all your points as it takes too much and I don't share the same passion for this show. But I will address some of it.

You said this story isn't 80% sex and lust and I might have exaggerated. But you can not deny that is majority of the plot of this show. I understand sex is a part of being in a relationship but again, the issue with this show is the lack of communication between the two. Instead they jump straight into sex and it magically fixes most of the tension between them. first 4 ep, was tharn lusting for type. 5-8 ish was type experimenting with his sexuality and them being sex friends. then they finally had make up sex to seal the deal. 9-12 was about the Lhong arc where this for the first time introduces any real drama where sex wasn't a big factor of the stroy (maybe because they "broke up"). As you can see, they always default back into sex at the end of the day and that's why this theme dominates majority of the time thus lacking plot and story.

You said its the author's right to use sexual assault as a plot device and I would agree if only there was more to be said about it. AGAIN, the issue being the lack of communication. I'm not saying the author can't incorporate sexual assault but if they so choose to, at least see it all the way through WITH the consequences that comes with it. Because again, people will watch this thinking oh its playful so its alright, because of the way they execute this plot. Like you said, there are people who watch this and aren't grown adults. They don't have the maturity to distinguish what is crossing the line or not. So we absolutely must NOT cut some slack.

Type is a one dimensional character because he doesn't learn. After p'san(?) gave him a lesson, he didn't learn. he started dating tharn, but still he found his friend disgusting and ended on bad terms with him. He does whatever he wants without informing tharn, especially the finale on how he handled things. Lhong affected Tharn's life the most yet Type did not fill in Tharn about it or his plan, he took action on his own. Again, the lack of communication. Yes, later on, Type is able to admit to dating Tharn, and also in the special he looks for his friend and make up with him. But that scene he barely apologized.. his friend FORGAVE HIM and also APOLOGIZED to Type.... which i thought completely ruined any character development for Type. We didn't even get to see how he grew as a person after dating Tharn for three years, he couldn't even own up to his actions??

Lastly, the idea of a flawed character. The lack of communication is a flaw. Type's abusive behavior is a flaw. But sexually assaulting someone IS NOT A FLAW in character. or rather, it can NOT be just considered a MINOR flaw. Saying it this way makes it sound like oh its not a big deal, no one is perfect so its ok to sexually assault someone. It is not justifiable. I hope you realize this because thats the main issue. It's because the show does not make it into an issue but rather play it off as a joke.

So Tharn's behavior from eps 1-4 or so where he physically forces himself upon Type is not predatory behavior? I won't list all examples but one comes to find is the shower scene. Those seniors who specifically were looking for "hot" guys and forcibly taking pictures of even after being rejected is not predatory behavior?

I get that not all characters are perfect, I'm not asking for the perfect character but again there were no consequences to these actions in addition to being played off as a joke is the issue.

I would agree with you.... IF this series wasn't ~80% or so about lust and sex. Whats so MASSIVE of having a ONE DIMENSIONAL character who's experienced sexual assault? Especially when this show never dealt with nor had any meaningful conversations regarding it but purely uses it as a plot device for the two MCs to get closer. So Tharn triggered Type's trauma by sexually assaulting him yet this series played it off as a joke. But then after taking care of Type and Type telling Tharn about his past, he MAGICALLY got cured of his PTSD???? even professional therapists couldn't help him IIRC. Also you mention internalized homophobia.... but the man ain't gay. He said "I don't like men, I only like [INSERT NAME]".... so how can it be internalized homophobia when he ain't gay, that's just plain homophobia. do you see the layers of issue this show presents? Also why does Tharn even like Type? It was never explained... thats why, to me it seemed more like LUST than love.

I agree with you on how there needs to be more representation on survivors of sexual assult but again, the execution of the show didn't do it justice. for that I'd recommend watching "the effect" where it tackles rape and sexual assault with a serious tone and manner with supportive friends and family.

And for DBK, you would have to watch the PeteKao cuts from Kiss Me Again before getting into DBK but I think its worth it because they truly show the issues of LGBTQ+ community IE fear of being outed, coming out to family/friends, being understanding when one was still figuring out his sexuality in KMA series then being patient with having a partner still int he closet in DBK. ALSO the side couple clearly states "I like men..." not the I don't like men, only [insert name] trope.

As for UWMA, the two MC shows respect for one another by always having consent and not doing anything that makes each other uncomfortable or crosses the line. And if they do, the could COMMUNICATE with each other and tell them its not okay to do so and so... unlike Tharn Type, they had many communication issues.

Im glad you agree with the issues this series has. However, the amount of people who praise this series and put it on a pedestal yet at the same time ignores these issues or thinks it's justifiable is far too often. Don't get me wrong, I liked this series to a certain extent to finish it, but I will not choose to praise it all the whilst ignoring the glaring issues.

regardless if this is just a piece of work or not, it spreads a message and is up for interpretation. often times, misrepresentation in media lead to stereotypes of a certain group. IE. blacks are criminals, Asians are nerdy and socially awkward, etc. This is coming from a westerner mindset where we face these issues on a daily basis in the media. Don't tell me you have never heard of the "gay men are pedophiles and predators" stereotype before...

but regardless of cultural differences, using rape and sexual assault as a plot device is never okay, especially the way this show handled the situation. Especially when they play if off as a joke or something funny with the lighthearted background music.

I don't expect the series to be realistic to real life, but if it crosses the lines, then we should call it out, not turn a blind eye.

Can honestly say, majority who liked this series and given high praises are probably heterosexual female viewers (after all, that is the intended audience) who do not give a second thought to the underlying message and simply views the problematic scenes as "HOT" or "CUTE"... since 80% of this show is Tharn lusting for Type and Type wanting sex with Tharn...

This show does nothing for the LGBTQ+ community, rather it portrays them as predators IE Tharn's non-consensual behavior and the seniors who forcibly wanted pics of Type just because he's hot then later plays the victim card just for being in a minority group... I understand actions of a single person can not be used to define the community as a whole but this show isn't clear enough with the message it portrays, rather there is a lack of communication and discussion on serious issues that are too often passed off as a joke/romanticized.

Unfortunately, this piece of trash was also released alongside DBK and UWMA and took the spotlight. Now that series, shows true chemistry between the leads rather than LUST which often time people misunderstand it as "lack of chemistry.." but the message and the conversations they have in DBK is far greater than the plot in this show. UWMA shows much more healthy relationship and coming to terms with ones past and trauma.

definitely not if you want the full experience. Otherwise, you'd end up like one of the many people whose confused from the get go and complain about the "lack of chemistry" between the two MCs... which I believe they meant "lack of skinship"... because at this point in the timeline, they're already together for 3 years so you won't get to see their initial falling for each other phase and the sweet moments... and it doesn't take long to watch the PeteKao cuts on YT, only 3 eps