Suibian

No said characters can't be flawed. You all keep missing that and you're doing it on purpose so you can continue to make the same empty arguments.

1) Bro, rape is not the only kind of non-con. The kiss isn't suddenly consensual simply because it's not rape. No Straw Man arguments tolerated. I know all the angles of false equivalency and will call it out every time.

2) The context of the drama doesn't frame his behavior as "flawed", it portrays his actions as romantic and THAT'S what people are objecting to. The context of all Lian's behaviors in the show are presented as cute and romantic and sweet and he's just this poor guy stuck trying to control this wild, out of control person who is lying about his real personality. Instead of framing his actions as deeply flawed and by cultural standards a serious issue, the show sets them up for an audience that is horny for non-con.

And dude, no one says you can't like it when dramas try to make non-con sexy. The fact that you are doing so much dancing around the subject says you are trying to validate your own like of non-con content. You don't need to do that. Just like what you like.

But the rest of us are allowed to call it what it is, and yo, it was an assault.

Cool Bro!

Bro, for someone who "doesn't do gatekeeping" you sure do it a lot. "Get lost" is totally gatekeeping.

I'd be on the floor drunk in 5 minutes.

I have not seen that one. What's it about?

I hear you. We're in a slow spell. It was this weirdo trip or Cupid's Last Wish. So yeah, guess I'm watching this.

The controlling behavior is still creepy, even given context. He just looks like a different kind of creep now.

Naw! That sucks! Sorry you feel you gotta hit the road.

Bro, I cannot pump this message enough. I step away for a couple of days and come back to a bunch of crazy. And I'm not talking about BPG's posts.

Lian acts like Kuea is a pet that's misbehaving. He's sleazy. His bro time with Yi is basically them making bets over Kuea. So I'm wondering what this dude even brings to the table for Kuea. Nothing that I can see.

Kuea's is one of us free spirit types. I get him. He's being dragged down by what other people think he should be doing and man that's no fun. I didn't care much for Kuea blackmailing his maid. But considering his freedom and happiness hinged on her not reporting him, I get it. He's a good enough musician he just needs to cut ties with Lian, tell his parents the truth and if they disown him, then he can earn a living as a musical performer. He'd totally make it big.

Bro, that's not how consent works.

If the person being kissed is in an altered state of consciousness, then they can't give informed consent. Whether it's alcohol, date rape drugs, something your doctor gave you for sleeping, pain meds... it doesn't matter. If you aren't properly conscious then any 'choices' you make are not considered rational consent. Dude, Kuea wasn't even sure who he kissed the next day. He's still not sure. Which means he was way too out of it to give consent. It doesn't matter if he leaned into the kiss. He was too drunk to make a rational, conscious decisions about anything.

And Lian knew it. He'd been at the bar. He was watching. He had to practically pour Kuea into the car. The only reason for Lian to take the security footage was because he knew Kuea was so drunk that without the video proof, there was no way to really know what happened. If he thought Kuea would remember, then there was no point to taking the security footage. Which means Lian knew he was kissing someone who was way too drunk to know what they were doing. And that's some shady business right there.

Agreed! Diao owns my soul. And I thought the thing with all the Engineering students indulging Sin was funny. But I also was confused what his deal was until someone explained it recently.

Possessiveness isn't an excuse. Bro, that's dark road right there, no matter how you spin it. Saying rude shit and trying to force someone to move in with you so you can control their choices is not good. Not good at all.

I haven't seen Sin enough to get a read on him yet. But I love Diao.

*"In some countries you can still get death sentence or jail for being homosexuals. So not every law is perfect or made with well being of civilian in mind. Since life is mostly made from gray areas."*

This statement is kind of a perfect straw man fallacy, bro. In no way does it address the facts I laid out. It actually draws a parallel between unjust anti-gay laws in some countries and the Thai laws regarding consent. Which... Yo, it's not helpful to any debate because the parallel is a false equivalency.

Regardless of grey areas in any country's penal system, consent in Thailand has a clear legal definition. And dude, that kiss did not meet the legal requirements for consent. It was a sexually charged kiss given to someone who was way too drunk to make a rational choice. It's very cut and dry.

*"Likewise Kuea was more concerned if he was kissed by Lian or not, that getting to police station to report sexual harassment. "*

Bro, in that episode Kuea addressed why he didn't go to the police about the entire thing. And it wasn't because he didn't want to. It was because he had no proof of any kind. He didn't have reliable memories. and no security footage thanks to Lian. What exactly would he have taken to the police had he wanted to lodge a complaint?

Also no one here has started a war. You keep saying that, but there is no war. There is only people talking about the show.

Good summary! There's plenty of evidence that Kuea was exactly that drunk. He was unable to tell who was dance grabbing him before Lian actually came over. He was consistently unsure if Lian was actually Lian. If you don't know who you're talking to consistently and if you can only barely walk--with assistance, you are way too drunk to consent. Kuea was a wreck and Lian took advantage.

And you also don't kiss a person you're on the outs with just because they're drunk enough not to stop you. That's an alarm bell, yo.

That Kuea couldn't really clearly tell what happened the next morning was even more proof how drunk he was.

Bro, I hear you. The screenwriting needed more work. The scene between Yi and Lian where they're in the bar talking about Kirin and Kuea. That scene was dead boring. And with smashing two books into one short drama, no wonder they're not taking time to explain elements that are weird to people who haven't read the books.

I shouldn't have to read two books to be able to tell what's going on in one drama. The script shouldn't need a decoder.

Preach!

You got it all in one swing.

Ma boi Saint deserves the best. And yeah, the shit that went down wasn't cool at all.

I'm not sure it's just the script. Might be the source material too.

But yeah, I'm kind of uneasy about the people looking at Lian's shiesty treatment of Kuea and thinking it's somehow cute. I'm also not in love with some of New's performances.

Baffled.

The dynamic between the two lead couples is a real downer. And I'm thinking that New can sing well, but I'm not sure he's got the acting chops.