Kat

I dislike grooming, too, allas I do also not rate goblin as grooming.
I t makes little sense to apply the same standards to real life relationships and a fantasy one that features an immortal and rebirth cycles X'D

Often the difference between "healthy" and "problematic" dynamics are merely separated by "consent" and "putting each other mutually first, without neglecting oneself". And it is in human nature to have phases of dubious boundaries and not doing well at maintaining that balance.

Allas I personally liked the story for taking a very difficult dynamic and going from a messy relationship dynamic to a respectful handling of a difficult dynamic. Because as much as I wished that things were nice and clear cut, in reality it's messy.

Then again I am a person who handled relationship dynamics that were difficult in their own ways. And I have my share of experiences with past life memories. That's why my feeling on this might be very different than for you. And that is OK.

Thank you for sharing your perspective and elaborating on what you did not like about it. I'm sure it will help people to navigate their watch choices depending on their perspectives and experiences, too.

No neeed to point out. That is the whole point. Messed up men failing to raise boys, leading to more messed up men. It's a huge systemic and generational problem, that we have worldwide, which makes it incredibly hard to work through.

It's a reality AND a lot of individuals are working hard to slooooowly direct us out of this mess, though we're currently in the "backwards phase" of "3 steps forward, two steps back".

Allas regardless of gender, it's not our fault, but it's still our responsibility. It just particularly suck to attend to said responsibility for women in spite of also often systemically being disabled to finally get the job done.

It's important to be able to say that. And important to be able to name the source of the problem, without people immediately assuming that that's "the whole picture" and men's struggles are unseen. They're damn impossible to unsee. Which makes it extra sad how men notoriously worsen their own and everyone else's situation by doing exactly that.

So let's not act like "just pointing out" wasn't mean to equal the field. But it is not equal. That is the problem. Because "men are particularly frequently responsible for trampling over women and kids" but "although boys and girls both get trampled over, girls and women are socialised to still grow into socially responsible people, boys are less likely to get there and more likely to become abusers themselves instead".

So no, it's not appropriate to just point out like there isn't a difference. Getting trampled over doesn't result in abusive people equally. That's the curse of sexism. Allas, we need men to be the most concerned about getting these things sorted, rather than making "their survivors, too" comments and thereby being politely and sneakily dismissive.

I'm saying: If you care about men's issues and the end of their suffering, then I need you to stop putting soft cushions around the topic in the wrong way. It's "Men were children who got trampled over, too, so they should know best not to participate in that cycle".

I suppose it depends on what aspect in particular you like/dislike. At the end of the day, preferences are a complex thing. So it's nice you liked this one in spite of it having parallels to the show you disliked!

I have to agree, considering it is a political drama, they do properly stick to keeping the relationship in the centre and the main couple only gets in each other's way at the start. Often they'll get pitched against each other constantly and one pressures by blackmailing to hurt the other etc. But they actually keep it together quite well. I'm positively surprised. Episode 30 now XD

Alright I'm at episode 14 and none of this is damn "mild" political. X'D That's not mild. That's maybe on the lighter side of the heavy spectrum, but it's not even anywhere near mid either.

It's a good drama, but I still wish I didn't start it. In these times it's particularly sickening to watch political grind and grime

There is no reason to give such notification as people can see the comments for themselves. And I am doing exactly as you said and pointed out to you that there's a problem here. Calling out behaviour doesn't start at "wrong", it starts at much earlier to prevent "wrong".

I let you know how it's really not a helpful thing to do and offered moral input in case you wanted to avoid that in future. You can take it or leave it. Either way it's important to talk about what actions enable abuse more than being helpful. If it's not for you, it will be for someone else.

Anyway. Let's both move on then.

The spoiler tag was a suggestion (and I suggested it to some others, too) as it is a plot spoiler. But I get where you're coming from :)

Thank you. I'll give it a try. I'm sick of heavy political stuff XD

Agreed on the acting being great. But also agreed that that script was messed up and an insult to the actors and actresses!

Spoiler tag, dear! And what you missed, is how abuse works, especially in the context of people in power. Aka the unreasonable part was not, that they needed extensive preparations to take her down. The idiotic part was, that they weren't concluding on that and also acting like they're in 19XX and not some age with mini-cameras in the shape of earrings, pens and whatnot, like they can't record all the abusive things she says.

(=w=) So yes, you are completely right to be frustrated but "legal adults" is not the point to be upset about. I mean look no further than America or Russia or (you name it) and what openly abusive clowns in power can absolutely and easily get away with and it should be easy to grasp how "having human rights" is - sadly - not enough to be safe from abusers.

Thus it is endlessly frustrating when they create a setting where it's actually realistic to hold her accountable and tear her down! They HAD the means and power to get it done ///orz///

Well yes, but a drama should not leave off of such a horrifying note. They should either resolve the situation or make an active comment of Zone having a private talk with his brother to tell him "Here are the safeguards I prepared! We'll be taking her down very soon". Not just leave on the "the abuser gets their way" note. That's just terrible choice of editing. It gives the romantic conclusion for the main couple and incredibly disgusting aftertaste!

Also your comment should really be spoiler tagged!

Excuse you, the right approach to crazy people (those are not fans, that's an insult to fans), is not to tell their potential victims to "be careful", but to tell them off for being toxic and backing anyone who speaks up and encourage them to stick to their honest opinion without fear of such people.

So, please don't participate in enabling abuse, but actually in ending abuse. I believe you may have had good intentions, so I wanted to let you know that that is NOT how you get actually well meant results. Please consider adjusting that. Please spread encouragement, confidence and make safe paces, rather than unnecessarily sowing concerns. Be the change you want to see.

This could have been a great love story with a cool plot and actors with amazing chemistry.

Sadly, the setting - again, why the heck do they keep doing that - is ruined by absolutely unhinged degrees of abuse surrounding that story. Why do so many Thai BL dramas feature unhinged villains and often very criminal settings. It just screws up all the fun.

Also, they could have gotten away with the "stalker" bit, by keeping it respectful. It was plausible enough, since Cir lacks healthy human relationship modelling. But he should really not have been shown to cross boundaries repeatedly after being told to back off in the final episode. Imagine same actions in the context of Phu NOT choosing to reconcile. Getting emotionally blackmailed by the ex at the door, them utilising your friends and even entering the living space without consent while they're fighting is not romantic, it's freaking scary and dangerous to glorify!

Well yes but also no, actually. While they sure show very misogynistic societal pattern in the higher ranks of society, they do show significantly more equality across the board than many other dramas I've seen. So, sure, it's not sexism free (when is it ever! ///orz///) but there were also many elements challenging that.

So while I also had the thought, I arrived at the conclusion that it is on the milder side. They had it all. Incredible female actors in various lines of work and their own agendas that were not exclusively revolving around men and men's wishes. We had female villains and morally grey characters.

So, yes, but also, no this is no epitome of sexism. I have seen so much doing so so so much worse. It's there, but for once it's less crushing.

Romance, bromance AND a turtle? They spoiled me rotten with this one.

It had sequences that were barely bearable to watch, because they hit way too close to the horrors of reality. And some sentences shall never leave me, as I have found myself thinking them before. Especially the line that (former) Songrim leader Park Jin says, before his major fight over the fire"bird". I was really really worried about the decision making in regards to him and Kim Do Ju. had they not resolved things as they did, they could have easily utterly ruined the drama for me. So I'm glad they made a good choice!

If you wonder if you should watch this, then see if you love the drama "Goblin (2016)" cause this is almost like a full historic setting of that. It has the romance AND the heart-warming bromance. Also what the heck, season 2 has a turtle! I'm a turtle owner. That sweet was so stinkin cute and it plays a major role, too! I - in all honestly - loved that part the most :'D

Now be warned that the overall vibe of this fantasy setting is dark and gloomy. They have pretty scenery, too, but horror is definitely a major part of the show, so you'll need the guts for that. Ironically, the most horrific figures, though, are humans all along!

Humour is splendid, by the way

Yes, men are a disappointment in this way often. It makes a hecking lot of very real sense. Just look at history or just out into your own society now. It's crawling with way too many men letting everyone down (themselves included) while wrecking havoc. And ofcourse also women (and occasionally non-binary ppl) who end up letting them, a way or another, as that's how trauma works.

Meanwhile kids rot from the neglect, for the spiral of mess to restart and weak and poor get trampled under it all (and occasionally each other, cause lack of resources).

I feel your frustration (I've just finished season 1, but I also think that makes it a good "close to reality" drama (aka also makes it somewhat bad fantasy drama LOOOOOL).

In many ways it's a cautionary tale. They're supposed to hurt. They're supposed to showcase how damn fast power will make most people rot, even the best, with the mere difference that they might keep the losses somewhat more at bay.

Anyway, heading into season 2 now. I saw your comment before that and just really vibed with your frustration, while another part of me just sighs, as that's pretty much the reality we're dealing with daily!

Gosh thank you. I KNEW they messed up the cut and probably had it somewhere. They wrecked the drama thoroughly in the last episode, but at least this second round of also wrecking the reunion was now remedied for me thanks to you.

As a skinny woman who struggles to put back on weight I do want you to know that you made very poor choices.

You tried to criticise abuse of women by being abusive of women. You criticised beauty standards with insulting women's external appearance.

Aka if you choose the wrong method to promote the cause and are ruthless, all you do is give the movement a bad name and put yourself in the same corner as the abusive people you criticise.

@melontea gave a valid input about how this is not helpful and you doubled down instead of giving it some thought. Honestly, that is the very sort of behaviour that leads to discrimination and abuse in first place.

As a skinny woman who never chose to struggle for weight like this (while thankfully still holding on right above what would be underweight) I just hope that you can choose to be kind in the future instead.

The most helpful way to promote feminism, is to criticise the abusers (aka sexists) and correct those who uphold damaging narratives (like @melontea demonstrated). And I hope to see you help the cause in future instead of attacking women for trying to survive in abusive environments. Thank you.

I can't believe this. They took a quite good drama with great acting, costumes, locations and music and tore the whole thing into ugly pieces in the very last episode, which made the very original "story ending" look better than whatever ugly mess that was and then they even cut the real life reunion segment in the middle of it??

It's so painfully disappointing and so unnecessarily dumb, that I can't. I've seen annoying nonsense in such dramas, but this is - as we say - "throwing pearls before swines" and doing so at the last point that leaves the strongest impression. Just .... unbelievably obnoxious decision-making!