pcharlotte787

i guess the only thing left to say is, "agree to disagree"

No matter how much you twist things around, it all boils down to the following:
You: "When the hell did she blackmail her husband?"
Me: "Re-watch episode 9"
You: Watches episode 4 and blackens me after watching the wrong episode
Me: "Re-watch episode 9, not 4, as I told you, after LG and LL talked over the phone for the first time"

And here is the line that clearly shows her threat:
"I still have the files from wiretapping you. Guyeon tunnel project seems to be the fishiest".

Whether she said above as a counter-threat or not, it was still a threat and answered your question.

Can you post the exact words of Article 41 of the Convention of Geneva on War? The one I am seeing is about civilians. It will be noted that after New Year, Lee Lim's men, who were holed up in the bookstore, were at war with LG's men. As far as this war was concerned, those men in the bookstore were not civilians. In fact, the reason he did not pursue them during New Year celebration was because of civilians.

Regarding love, being in the same or different worlds is immaterial since the point was that love does not just sprout after a couple has gone through extraordinary obstacles. It can happen even at first sight. Just because somebody wrote that article doesn't make it true. I felt the love connection and I would believe what I felt than somebody else who, like other viewers, did not get the drama at all.

Whether or not she was responding in kind, she threatened him which answered your question of "where did she blackmail him?" Twisting things around won't make it any less true.

Regarding the PM's comment, "I quite enjoy seeing Lee Gon in despair", is this how you squirm out of a tight spot, by saying it was a troll or a joke?

This is exactly why TKEM is not understood. It needs more analysis than a standard kdrama. It does not follow the template.

Right now, TKEM is #15 most streamed TV show in the world. For 2020. CLOY is #32.

Isn't it obvious they were at war? They were at war since New Year.

Regarding the blackmail, let's repeat that a second time. She said, "I still have the files from wiretapping you. Guyeon tunnel project seems to be the fishiest". He said, "You really are scary". Refusing to see a point and blackening the one you're having a discussion with instead is rather pathetic

Try to get your details right before blackening somebody. I usually back my arguments with episode #s, sometimes quotes.

As I told you, re-watch episode 9, not 4; the part after LG and LL talked over the phone for the first time.

You asked, "When the hell did she blackmail her husband? he wants to bribe her to release him out early from jail sentence."

I quoted the very line where she blackmailed her husband. To repeat, here's what she said,
"I still have the files from wiretapping you. Guyeon tunnel project seems to be the fishiest".

And you say, "so what?" The point is that she blackmailed him. His answer was, "You're really scary." Guess why he said it? Because she can get him imprisoned even longer for that fishy project.

Regarding deductive reasoning, it's not just me who uses this. Guess why the international audience is getting this drama? Because this technique is used all the time in understanding literature, for example in character analysis. This is actually what makes literature fun, when you are not spoon-fed and you have to fill in the gaps. But filling in the gaps is not random. You have to use background information, not just pull things out of the air. Even the emotions are not random. Feel the music, try to find out the lyrics, the words of the poems. You know how you can understand the King better? Listen to the song Maze.

Regarding the PM enjoying his distress, her words were, "I quite enjoy seeing Lee Gon in despair". Where does it say "She basically thinks he looks cute when he is mourning?"

You cannot get out of the argument by blackening the one you are having an argument with. Focus on the subject matter.

That is what makes LG special, that he grew up to be kind and benevolent despite his trauma. Why make a drama about a weak person who easily succumbs to hardships and temptations? I prefer to watch something that makes humanity aim for the ideal. Even if we don't reach it, the attempt to reach it would still make us better than something that does not encourage us to aim high at all.

I believe there are many heroes among us, people who manage to overcome life's hurdles without sacrificing their noble characters. While failure to overcome such hurdles would not neccessarily make one a villain, performing acts that violate decency and morality would.

The people in the bookstore were innocent? They had been trained for the war LG and LL were waging . As for the PM being vicious, what do you call a blackmailer?

Sure you can fantasize what LG would do if he were poor. Let's use deductive reasoning, based on what we know about him. He described himself as "a rower, a mathematician, a well-grown orphan, the owner of the Four Tiger Sword." Since he is poor, he won't probably have the Four Tiger Sword, but he can still be a rower and a mathematician if he exerts himself. I think he would be happy being a rower and a mathematician married to a detective named Tae-eul, with two children.

Right after the funeral, the PM said to herself, "I quite enjoy seeing Lee gon in despair". It does not say anything about any suspicion that his crying was fake. In fact, she admitted he was in despair.

Failing to see how close Lee Gon and Prince Buyeong were just proved my point. Viewers who miss elements of the show are wont to criticize it. Here are some relevant scenes of LG and PB together:

- in episode 2, Prince Buyeong was amused at Lee Gon's disappearance, telling Lady Noh, "Just until this summer, he was shameless about running away." Lady Noh told PB to knock some sense into LG and not ask if LG had fun this time. This indicates LG and Prince Buyeong had a lot of fun talking about LG's past escapades.

- in episode 4, LG told PB his favorite photo is the one of the three of them together, with cherry blossoms everywhere, with him holding both PB and Lady Noh's hands. PB confirmed he does not blame LG for his childrens' exile.

- in episode 6, Lee Gon said to Tae-eul, "I was raised amid my uncle's worries and head Court Lady Noh's tears." This indicates PB and Lady Noh raised him.

- episode 9 revealed they've been meeting each other at New Year's dawn. On their last new year sunrise together, They talked about fate. LG told PB, "If I find a solution, I will visit you again with a woman who argues that the earth is flat." I love this conversation of theirs.

- in episode 10, when other members of their clan said that he was the oldest member of the Royal Family, PB admonished them, telling them that the most senior member of the Royal Family was LG, indicating his full support of LG.

Because I remember obscure details about the drama, I am accused of fantasizing. This has become a recurrent theme. This is why I keep exhorting those who are not enjoying the show - please re-watch it. Maybe then you'd enjoy it and stop thinking people who remember obscure details are fantasizing.

Regarding blackmailing her ex-husband, re-watch Episode 9, when she visited her husband. She told him, "I still have the files from wiretapping you. Guyeon tunnel project seems to be the fishiest".

I sure wish the drama would give us a step-by-step explanation of how greed turned to treason and murder. But I bet some viewers would find that slow and boring. TKEM just can't win, you know. When it shows details, it is slow and boring. When it becomes action-packed, it is some other hideous animal. In the absence of such blow-by-blow account, we can use deductive reasoning which appears to be called fantasizing in this comment section.

I believe Seo-yeong's slide to the dark side was triggered by self-preservation. In her discussion with Lee Lim, she figured out that if she didn't kill her doppelganger, she would be killed by the latter (this is not a fantasy. re-watch episode 13). If she had been Tae-eul, self-preservation would probably not have pushed her to murder. Note that Tae-eul wanted to meet Luna, not kill her. A cop who wants to be brave for everyone else who cannot be brave would be hard-pressed to kill somebody else for self-preservation (this is called deductive reasoning based on what we know about Tae-eul). But we had already seen Seo-ryeong's mean streak - her blackmails, glee when she saw Lee Gon's misery and pulling the gag on him. Scenes like these are not shown haphazardly. It's not fantasy; it's logic.

Regarding the report, Seo-ryeong was told to submit a report while Lee Gon was supposedly holed up in his study. Seeing as how the terms of the Constitutional Monarchy in Corea was not explained in detail to the viewers, we can speculate about LG's duties as much as we want. We can even argue that since his grandfather was the one who established such a form of government, he probably would have given himself more power than the modern British monarch, who knows. Since they own practically, if not absolutely, all the rare-earth minerals of the kingdom (this is not fantasy; re-watch Episode 5), they probably don't even need to lift a finger. They could be on vacation 365 days a year, and just require reports from the Seoul government. Who knows.

What is explicitly shown is that when the PM asked, "What kind of Prime Minister should I be to you?", LG answered, "Please be a Prime Minister who mostly gives written reports". (this is not fantasy; re-watch Episode 5)

From the get-go that was the expectation. Probably the King was not even supposed to meet with the PM every Friday. Maybe LG should not even have allowed his secretary to make him attend conferences and basketball openings. Who knows, indeed. The production team should have spent an episode explaining the details of the Constitutional Monarchy, really. The critics of the show would have had a field day about its "boring"-ness.

The fact is, she was told to submit a report and she defied that, barging into his study, with the pretext that it was national emergency. Really? Kings die in office all the time. His dad was assassinated. Prince Buyeong, his successor, was ready to take over. The reason for her defiance was important. She defied the orders because she wanted to catch him in the act, so she would have something to make him indebted to her. Had Lee Gon ever done that to anybody? Had he ever defied any order just so he can blackmail somebody? Intentions are important when analyzing characters' actions. This is not fantasy. just logic.

Yeah, i think TKEM should have been stretched much longer. However, the writer and director did leave viewers with ideas on the characters' personalities. For example, at the very start, Seo-ryeong was shown arriving earlier than scheduled for her meeting with LG. One thing it showed was that she had no respect for his time. When she barged into his study, she disrespected both him and Lady Noh. She was told to submit a report but ignored that directive. She was there to get something to blackmail him for. What sort of a person wants to blackmail another? She uses her ex-husband, also at the point of blackmail. She admitted "greed is the most sincere emotion" It seems she does not know love, despite being doted on by a seemingly affectionate mom. She laughed when Lee Gon mourned for his uncle. What kind of a person laughs at somebody else's misery? I think the drama showed us enough scenes to come to a conclusion about her character.

The dialogues were the means the writer chose to explain some of LL and SR's intentions. They were clear enough for many viewers. Perhaps if this were an eight-season drama like GOT, we can have a whole episode or even a whole season featuring young LL struggling because he was illegitimate. But Jon Snow of GOT thought he was illegitimate and the person he thought was his step-mom was mean to him. He didn't even join the family's table in banquets. Yet, did he grow up wanting to be king? Did he assassinate his half-brother to grab the throne or some magic instrument like the flute? Did he make people kill each other like LL make doppelgangers do? LL does not want to adhere to the age-old tradition of legitimate-born children having higher rights to the throne because of his greed for power and he will do anything to get that.

I just mentioned the reasons why I thought Seo-ryeong would have turned bad even if she were rich. And the operative word is "If". But whether she was born rich or poor, she said, "the most sincere emotion is greed". She laughed when she saw Lee Gon mourning his uncle.

Please tell me examples of my "fantasies". I noticed some viewers misunderstood some elements of the drama because they missed some scenes. And that seems to be prevalent. My analyses of characters and situations are based on scenes, dialogues, music, even poems that are shown or heard onscreen. Let us go through these so-called fantasies one by one and perhaps those who are not getting the drama might be able to see why other viewers are loving it.

imo, the drama adequately explains why Lee Lim and Seo-ryeong turned bad. Lee Lim keeps complaining about being denied what he thinks is his right to the throne just because he is illegitimate. Seo-ryeong is plain greedy and vicious. I believe even if she were born rich she would still have turned bad, like Cersei Lannister. She believes "greed is the most sincere emotion". She admitted she liked seeing Lee Gon miserable. That's sick. I'm seeing posts making excuses for why the characters turned bad and aired my opinion about that stance.

Lee Gon lost his mother at the age of three. At eight, he witnessed his father's assassination and nearly got killed himself. Yet he grew up to be a kind and benevolent king, though appropriately decisive in the war against Lee Lim.

Tae-eul lost her mom at the age of five yet decided to be brave and be a cop because not everyone can be brave.

Shin-jae was abducted at the age of eight and experienced a turbulent life after his Korean father got imprisoned; yet he still tries not to give in to temptations to be a bad cop.

I hope these heroes (so far) continue to be so.

One reason this drama reminds me of Star wars and Game of Thrones, aside from the genre, is how it depicts the "baddies". These characters are shown to have undergone bad experiences that pushed them to the bad side, like Darth Vader in Star Wars and Cersie Lannister in Game of Thrones.

However, strength of character manifests itself in how a person overcomes obstacles. It is easy to give in to hate and blame others for pushing one to the bad side. A hero is one whose goodness prevails and shines through despite insurmountable odds and temptations.

those who love it think it deserves more than 8.3, the haters less, I'm sure :) I'm enjoying it as much as I enjoyed Star wars, the Lord of the Rings and Game of Thrones.

Those were objective info and stats, you can draw your own conclusions. One of the reasons I joined this forum was actually to find out more about the controversies and the politics surrounding the kdrama world since what I heard intrigued me. From what I heard, answers to your questions (why sbs is not suing, etc) are controversial themselves, but I don't think talking about them here would be of any use

i agree. Re-watching episodes helps too :)

I actually like engaging in arguments where each side is open to each other's opinions. It's a good exercise for analytical skills. But what I have noticed is that some people here seem to be just in it to criticize and pull the drama down, trying to discourage others from enjoying it. If I can, I would like to put some kind of a notice to this comment group: "Don't join if you don't want your happiness sucked out of you". It's like people don't want others to be happy. And this drama, for all its faults, do make people happy

What i noticed is that when i try to refute a criticism, my points don't seem to be heard and I keep getting the same rebuttals that I had already refuted before. It seems that people really just want to criticize and not listen to others' points. Or i would be told not to make assumptions by those who also base their rebuttals on assumptions