Honglou Meng

Also, might I point out, the brilliant adaptaion of Mansfield Park (1999) -- which starred Harold Pinter no less -- included depictions of sex, without being bound by fidelity, but taking advantage of artistic license. It critiques things that Austen implies, but never explicitly states: such as the source of income of country estates, and the existence of "illegitimate" children, sometimes mixed-race. (There is a wonderful bit in Sanditon where Austen describes a mixed-race character. Pity she didn't live to finish it.)

In any event, I highly recommend the adaptation. Perhaps my second favourite Austen film, after the Ang Lee Sense and Sensibility.

Just to say, I'm not ganging up on you, I'm just pointing out that your assertion does not hold true, and is disproved by basically all of your examples.

Yes, I agree that films without a kiss scene can be incredibly romantic and satisfying. But your message really implies that physical connection is somehow inferior, and that it is merely an element of fantasy, and that kissing or sex cannot feed the soul. I take exception to all of that.

Lastly, a simple googling reveals that Eternal Sunshine had a deep kiss scene, but was removed for artistic purposes. So, it did have a kiss scene in its conception, if not after birth.

Our posts just crossed. As it turns out 5 out of the 7 feature a kiss, and with US cut of P&P, that makes it 6 of 7.

I won't count the kiss in Anne Frank's House though. That was, to me, too distasteful. But that still does not affect the total count.

Yup. It was a slightly more involved love scene, though it is chaste compared to what Thai BL is putting out these days. But the film doesn't even use the word 'fuck' or 'bugger'. The hot British one says, "let's make love". (If a man said that to me, I'll show him the door, but there you go...) What makes me furious is that a film with slavery, liberal use of fuck and the n-word, grotesque violence, could get the same rating as a story about people falling in love. What is that if not deep-rooted homophobia?

RW&RB was indeed terrible. I watched it for one and one reason alone: Uma Thurman's unplaceable southern accent. It was so camp that I thought it was the gayest thing about the film. And yes, the textual flirting was so well done -- I wish their getting together wasn't so rushed, because it was the best part of the film.

Here are further kiss scenes:

Before Sunrise: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4Mia78o4TE

500 Days of Summer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DomJHvbM7qE

Amélie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQutB3mYc84

You get the drift.

The Notebook doesn't have a kiss scene? It won the best kiss scene at MTV awards!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XszIigIa2Bg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGle4xRNPSM

Also, The Fault In Our Stars had the grotesque kiss scene in Anne Frank's house -- which is offensive on so many levels. Do you not remember?

https://www.nbcnews.com/pop-culture/movies/kiss-anne-frank-attic-did-fault-our-stars-go-too-n129116

My point exactly! Thank you! Also, in HOTE, we do see naked butts (if only partially) -- Chihoro's during that heart-breaking fleshlight scene, and Haoren when he first reveals his body and gets into the bath. So, the white blanket made no sense, and made me quite upset.

I suppose I needed the white blankets to go, because I genuinely wanted them to express their love without censorship, when the violence wasn't censored (so to speak), and because -- I don't think people will come for me in this thread, because it's us adults having a conversation -- it reeks of institutional homophobia. This is not limited to Japan, though.

In the US, every Quentin Tarantino movie gets an R-rating. Not an NC-17, but an R. So did Red, White & Royal blue -- an innocent little Western BL. Yes, it has one sex scene, but it's so tame you'd think -- that's it? Yet, it gets the same rating as Django Unchained? I'm sick of it.

I get the soft spot for very first BL. Mine was KinnPorsche, and though I'd rate it now as highly as anthrax sprinkled on the foam of a cappuccino, I was gobsmacked to see scenes from Thailand that I could seldom find in the West.

Please do send me the title of the film. False accusation is in fact one of my greatest fears -- maybe because I live in a country where they still put people to death by gassing, or where you can get obscene 120 year sentences for a minor transgression -- however, I liked Thomas Vinterburg's The Hunt, and last year's Anatomy of a Fall had one of the best scripts I have ever seen, so, I might make an exception!

Clearly, there is a great deal of intersection -- if not a direct overlap -- between the people who decry this trope as "incest", and yet can't get enough of it. It is tantalising enough to pull them in, and titillating enough for them to decry, but there are no real stakes, so it all feels like a bit of a play-acting.

I'm almost reminded of the Christian obsession with sex, and homosexuality in particular. The only people who are as obsessed with sex are either celibate (dare I call them incels?), or sexual compulsives.

I think it's extremely well written, and Maggi will agree with me. Not necessarily the dialogue, but the plot and the characters. The acting, especially by one of the leads, and the side characters, is astonishing. The music is superb and not imposing.

No tropes here. None that I can see. No crazy ex-girlfriends. No "cheating". No bog-standard manipulation. (In any event, I discuss a bit of this in my review for the show, and I don't think there are many spoilers there.)

However, be prepared. It breaks every taboo imaginable. And just when you think a show can't possibly go there, it does. My only small gripe with the show is that it would dwell on the weird intimacy of the leads as it does on the horrors of the world around them, because TV & cinema can depict violence without scruples, but as soon as it's people having sex, the cameras pan to the fireplace... But here, the Japanese are not unique. So...

Agree on everything. But jpny01, do you like really dark and painful stuff? It is as dark as any show can get -- BL /LGBT or not. But that's also what makes it stand out.

Interesting. I never thought about it that way. Do you think it would be interesting if a show -- probably Japanese -- went there? Or would the internet have a meltdown?

This is becoming a fascinating thread, and yes, I agree! That's why, ummm... my friend ZeeZee, who is more irascible than I am, asked what was the point of the trope in TOO. History4 was subversive, here, it seems just tropaic (for lack of a better word).

Strangely enough, I have seen it. I have just completely forgotten it. People said it was "fluff" done right. But I struggled to get through it.

Ditto on HOTE, Double Mints, Mood Indigo (which I slightly prefer), and Dangerous Drugs of Sex. I'm still sorting out my feelings for MBM.

Perfectly put! Thank you!

Please tell me what you think. As you will see above and below, people have implied Tian has a "traumatic" past. If this "trauma" has anything to do with Tian's dad being gay, the show will have crossed a line.

I don't put quotes around the word "trauma" to minimise it. But I do think it has been diluted -- especially as a catch-all explanation for fictional characters' motivations -- to the point where it is offensive to people with real PTSD. And it has little explanatory power in most cases. But then, what do I know? Apparently, I'm just a troll.

Also, thanks for engaging with what I said, and not attacking me as a person! It is such a rarity in the online world these days! I'm a fan.

I'm glad you went and looked it up, Escape! That heartens me.

There have been books devoted to that parable, so we can't do it justice here. But, if I have introduced one more person to the Zhuangzi, I'm happy.

Also, I now wholly subscribe to your definition of the "real" and the "unreal" world. And adulting is overrated.

Fair enough!

But I'll point out that I asked for a ban on a word as a purely tongue-in-cheek joke. You implied I was a "troll", and asked for a person to be banned. Telling.