solipsism5

Thank you for the suggestions! I essentially like almost all BL's and someone like that guy above doesn't understand I'm even enjoying some of the worst ones. I do really appreciate when a series or book goes beyond and produces something like real art, though. I'm a big reader so I'm sure I'll appreciate these recommendations. Thank you again!

This guy doesn't seem to understand that art isn' judged by moral standards except by people like SJW's and Church ladies. He also thinks a rape happened during this series. Essentially he is impossible to talk to, lol.

Can I say it is you who insult people? I have been civil and you choose not to see it, and so I assume you want to just willfully insult me. I don't care if you think I am insulting you or others indirectly, that is just your opinion and is not my intent. I find the harsh opinions on here that are totally off the hook justify some tougher language but I haven't attacked them.

At this point I think you really are blind. You might have pulled out one example of how people judge a movie or show by some weird ethical standard, but that is not how the vast bulk of criticism is done. And art work that is judged by time is not concerned by these moral standards. You can keep posting this opinion but I really believe it is such a strange opinion that I'll choose to ignore it as I will advocate everyone else should ignore it.

Critics attack other critics all the time. That is not crossing the line. That's called having a debate, or disagreeing with each other. If you do it in nice way there is no harm done.

I already said people can post their opinions. If I say someone shouldn't do this or that, that is my opinion. I have no control of this board. I can also say people shouldn't murder each other, but that doesn't mean I control them in any way.

You only understand what you choose to understand. Look, I'm not getting anything out of this, I think honestly you are intelligent and have some opinions I completely disagree with. I've heard them in a nice way, but you keep coming back to your attacks. Have a nice day again. I will not be continuing this discussion.

You are entitled to your opinion. I certainly am not mocking anyone. I tell them to stop putting morality first. I find your opinion odd since I really love Western lit, and international film of all varieties. and no one in hundreds of years in various genres have problems with these issues and do not look at dramas through the lenses that you consider to be applicable. Yes, people on here might hate step-brothers being in a relationship but it is odd, and no one in any other genre worries about these things except a few people on the far fringes.

I really object to your characterization of what I'm doing. I did recently "attack" three people on here but, in general, I never respond to their posts. To be fair, I shouldn't have responded to them at all and kept with my old practice. I'm not crossing any line like you are describing. I have kept the debate very civil, and I am not very low as you describe. That is just appalling you should say that. I was talking about general practices that should not be followed. I'm sure I won't convince you, again, because you seem very inflexible in your opinions. Have a nice day.

I'm not spamming as you call it. I don't have any animosity towards you, but you certainly miss my point. I'm talking about the same series but presenting different issues that are not being discussed like Yong Jie's mental health issue, or, in t his post, the idea that people come with programmed ideas of what they think is good content.

I don't expect to convince you or other people that are posting on here that are completely convinced about their opinion. I find it would take months of debate to convince most people.

It would be a lot easier if most people were critical thinkers and would be open to searching for the truth. Most people are not, and though you think I'm set in my opinions I will change them on a dime if someone has valid arguments to prove their point.

I'm not on here to convince you but for any people that haven't made up their mind, that don't worry about the "rape" issue [that didn't happen], or the stepbrother issue.

I can do that if I want just like others on here have very crazy, aggressive opinions stating that this drama is a piece of trash and is totally cringeworthy. They are trying to convince you not to watch this show and I'm doing the opposite. I support free debate, so people who hate this show can express their opinion and I can express mine and people can make up their own minds on this board who they want to believe.

We have explained it many times. This is just not factual. I'm just surprised that you have missed these posts. There are many others that have also posted why this was not rape that occurred in this series. Though, I don't expect to convince you, you can look at those posts below.

I would only say you have to deprogram yourselves into perceiving that art works should be judged on their ethical content rather than their artistic content. I would also love people to stop being so judgmental about age gap relationships, or unusual relationships that are outside their comfort zone and I would like them to deprogram themselves in that regard as well. But I'm happy to see people have different artistic problems with the show like some of the poor lighting, or the use of various tropes in this series. Ultimately, if people insist on believing in those silly ideas, I don't expect them to change their mind but I'll fight those people from ruining the experience of others who have never seen this show.

I'm more interested in talking about this series because of all the negativity surrounding it. I really am not familiar with a lot of the manga and bl novels so I will defer to you on that, but I think this is one of the only BL's that has a lot of controversial topics while being executed well with great acting and a sensible plot. I can only think of ITSAY, ATOTS, Trapped, and possibly a few others in this league. I wasn't saying it was the best but that it is in this top category of BL's.

If another series like ITSAY were attacked like this I would post on that board like I do on here. I think we agree on everything I'm saying here and I would certainly welcome learning about other great bl manga or novels.

If you got to the part where he reads his journals which gives you exactly what his thought process was you would see that he cared deeply for his brother and did everything possible to help including the time when he helped him move out of their parents home. In the end of the series it is clear that Yong Jie has a mental disorder, like Major Depressive Disorder, and much of his insecurity of losing his brother stems from that. In a moment of instability he did do a few unethical and inappropriate things, but his overall concern for his brother was much greater and he would never intentionally hurt him.

I'm not sure how it's supposed to be vanilla while having a central story which is clearly not vanilla. I don't find it cringe-worthy at all, but you are entitled to your opinion. I do think it was a great series that was executed well with very good acting. I'm not calling what you said bs, so I hope you would extend me the same courtesy.

Fair enough, but I find it unusual to judge a drama based on some ethical standard. Artistic works should be judged solely on the merits of their artistic quality, but that is only my opinion.

So what? People get other people drunk all the time for this purpose. It is not rape by any stretch of the imagination. He filmed the scene for the purpose, as you can tell from the scene with the father, to cast the blame on himself for seducing his brother - don't you understand anything that the screenplay writers were trying to indicate to you?

There's something weird with Thai shows that no one is addressing but you [and thank you for that]. The population of Thailand is much darker skinned than what we see portrayed in BL and Lakorn. It really is a form of prejudice not to represent those people anywhere in these dramas. Thank you for bringing this up. They really need to stop focusing on whiter skin being so much more "beautiful" than any other. Having watched a few documentaries on Thai culture I know people in Thailand actually believe whiter skin is more attractive but it is not good to project that on TV to the point where it stigmatizes people with darker skin in their own country.

There are dozens of posts about the "brother part", and your opinion is just really uninformed, in my opinion. Who are you to judge a couple like this if they existed in the real world? Do you feel uncomfy when there is gratuitous violence or murder or rape in other dramas like Game of Thrones [which also included incest]? Why do you worry about it here? Does it feel wrong because it is in a BL drama which has to be held to some way higher standard? The step-brothers only stayed together for 2 years before the older one went away to college if that helps your uncomfiness. If this scenario occurred in real life who would you be to judge them? Since it is just a fictional drama why should you even care one iota?

You don't understand anything you watched here. I'm surprised you got to the end. MODC is just your plain vanilla BL that was executed well yet with a weird ending. Trapped was excellent. I think you thinking everything here was cringe is just so simplistic, but whatever.

I will keep posting on here because it seems all the comments are related to how uncomfy people feel about the age gap, the step-brother incest scenario, and the idea that rape occurred at some point between the brothers. I don't understand the age gap things at all as this occurs so frequently in real life and is just some crazy prejudice of people on here which is like the prudishness of some Victorian woman from the 19th century [not really, because this was commonplace in that age]. Where does this new weird morality come from? Who are you to worry about someone who loves someone else that is a decade older than their love interest, especially if both parties are deeply in love with each other? Just get over it. You would be virtually evil if you tried to stop two people that loved each other like this in the real world.

The step-brother issue is another crazy thing that has people talking on here. First of all the brothers only stayed with each other for a couple of years and then Xing Si went off to college. Even if they had grown up together it still wouldn't mean anything as they are not biologically related. This is just another aspect of moral prudishness that people have on here that is just even beyond anything in past history. If you saw this couple in real life who would you be to judge them? You would have to be a wicked, wicked person that takes pleasure in hurting people that are a little outside the norm in society.

For the one millionth time, there was no rape between Xing Si and Yong Jie. Don't you people understand the thousand posts we have made in the past that consensual sex is possible while inebriated according to all the research on the subject. Have you people never been to a bar? Have you never had sex while inebriated with your loved one? Why oh why do you keep repeating this unbelievably stupid line about rape? If you watch the scene like normal sober adults you would see there was no rape in this series. Just stop it, please!!!! Use your brain. Stop giving in to some knee-jerk reaction that has been programmed into you from some idiotic moral fad.

This is a well done series that is one of the best in BL. If you can deprogram yourself you can have a good time. Just open your mind and just realize, hey, I have these weird ideas that I actually don't even believe in when I look at them up close. Just have a good time without worrying about all these moral dilemmas that don't really exist.

No rape occurred. It was consensual sex. We've been discussing this for months. The presence of alcohol makes consensual sex more complicated but we are being very naive here in thinking consensual sex is not possible in the presence of alcohol.

Don't give up. This is really a great BL. If you don't like the step-brother couple you can still appreciate the other one. But read my post above, because the step-brother couple is something that should not be a problem. Just wait till you get to the end, because it is really a complex and innovative show.

I missed that, where was he?

Thank you very much. I think we have somewhat parallel experiences. I had very homophobic parents, but I was able to come out in my 20's by cutting them off and living a life of poverty (but it's really never that bad in the US). I've always loved Western lit, including Jane Austen, Dostoevsky, Balzac and company, and have always loved the classics of international cinema including the old Japanese masters like Uzo, and Kurosawa. I actually got into BL through Anime - they have the same feel good, lovely, naive, child-like quality I find so refreshing and uplifting. I saw SOTUS on Netflix one day and was just like in disbelief - I was like, what is this? I actually didn't like SOTUS and still haven't finished it, but I found so many others soon afterwards. I think Love By Chance was really my first BL that I absolutely loved [I think we started watching BL's at almost exactly the same time]. It was just truly captivating and led me to chase down anything that was in anyway similar to it. I'm not really too critical of BL's. I'm just happy they are being produced because they are just so much more engaging than Western gay dramas which are usually depressing, and which have become so familiar to me that I fail to even notice them. It seems like I am expecting someone to commit suicide, or witness intense bullying / intense homophobia from parents and friends and I've had enough of seeing that. I also appreciate the length of these shows. Many gay dramas end in the blink of an eye, mostly from having no budgets.

I must admit, to be honest, the density of very attractive Asian men in these shows helps my appreciation enormously X). Where I'm from in the state of Ohio, I really don't see that many Asians ,in general, and I can't believe what an injustice it was that I've been deprived at looking at these intensely handsome Asian men.

I love reading your comments. I like your brutal honestly. I would be like that, but I don't have time to engage with these SJW's on here, and I don't have your way with words in the way you go after them. I also appreciate all your comments regarding acting which are very insightful for me. Whatever I write on here I do as quickly as possible so I can get back to work. Thank you again for your kind words. and I hope I can keep providing something that approaches insight.

Wow! A great episode. I think it was continuously entertaining, going from slaptstick, vaudeville comedy to serious, touching moments. I think it was very moving how Mork has been caring for Pi the whole time, and I hope people will see this as courting, rather than stalking. Mork deeply loves Pi and he should be given some leeway for some of the things he has done. He loves Pi for the goofy awkward person he is and he loves the true Pi that is beneath that awkwardness.

The phony toxic female lead was such a wonderful caricature, and is really one of the innovations of this series. Her scenes are just so farcical and so fitting with the narrative - brilliantly done!

The story of Meen and Duean has now been given greater depth and meaning. I absolutely love this pair from the beginning and I think it was just a magnificent pairing on both sides, executed to perfection by Louis and Neo. The metaphor of this story is just fantastic as the comical pair who have been living a lie, now are given some real substance to their relationship, just like many other real relationships. Now Meen doesn't have to be the sad puppy and can get back to loving Duean because they have found the solution - no more lying. It's so simple and childish but so true and you can feel how it resonates with these characters, yet offers lessons for all of us as well. It's the simplicity of the way they reintroduce themselves to each other, and that is just a lesson for us all to "reintroduce" each other to those who we have lied to indicating that we are going to make a huge effort to get this relationship right.

In this episode we finally end the dramatic irony device that was used from the beginning. This device shows some clear literary talent by the screenplay writers. It is used so innovatively in this series because it is the hero who is hiding behind the shadows rather than the villain. There are so many more innovations here that I have never seen before with dramatic irony and I will make a separate post about it.

Really a great episode, brilliantly written and executed! It had a little bit of everything, and was truly an episode that cements Fish Upon the Sky as a great series in my book.