solipsism5

I think this was one of the best BL’s I’ve ever watched. The screenplay was just fantastic. It made you think about so many different issues, and tested boundaries all over the place while keeping you entertained the whole time. The acting was top notch by all the leads, and the parents of Xing Si and Yong Jie were spectacular [especially the father]. Everything was pretty consistent and there was just a minor flaw, sometimes, with the cinematography.

I don’t know what all the fuss about Yong Jie was all this time. The SJW crowd (and associates) has a penchant for making foredrawn conclusions on all sorts of issues based on little or no evidence. Whatever Yonj Jie did was at most a venal sin. His motives as contrasted with the VP in the series were very good, and he always had Xing Si’s best interests at heart. He could have waited for several years, of course, but it isn’t a crime to start your relationship earlier when it is possible to do so. If this was the real world who would blame him for starting sooner even if it was messy? If this was the real world who would that have hurt? I’ve looked up a few studies and they do show that there might be some consequences to starting the relationship on the wrong foot, but those studies are mostly about creating a bad first impression on people you have never met. Yong Jie and Xing Si’s case has to be taken in context and there was no long term consequence to what Yong Jie did. I am certainly not advocating that you emulate him, but his actions are, morally speaking, very inconsequential and many people are certainly making a mountain out of a molehill here.

Concerning the “incest”, which by definition was not incest, I shudder to think what some of these Puritans on here do with people they disagree with. If you met a couple like YJ-XS in the real world you would have to be a total asshole to try to attack them. It’s none of your business. Just stop being such useless busybodies. Worrying about it in a piece of fiction is even more idiotic.

There was a certain level of artistry in this series that I seldom see in BL. We didn’t even go very dark here. There was just such a light touch of darkness, and that was all that was needed by these very adroit screenplay writers to make you question things and to add just a little drama. Really not much happened in this whole series, but it was very fulfilling because the interactions between the leads was so heartfelt and moving, not like in a cheesy soap opera, but like the well crafted drama by an Uzo, Kurosawa, Jane Austen, or Goethe. There is almost an emotional fugue in the interactions between XS-YJ and the parents with all the pain and suffering mixed with all the joy and love. The love story of Muren and Licheng was also done well and one can not discount it even if it is commonplace in the BL world because it was executed so gracefully. Overall, a fantastic BL that should not be discounted because of personal aesthetic preferences.

I highlighted the dogpiling too because it's what I see on here as their favorite strategy. When you can't win an argument have your warped friend back you up so you don't seem crazy.

I highlighted the dogpiling too because it's what I see on here as their favorite strategy. When you can't win an argument have your warped friend back you up so you don't seem crazy.

Does this sound like anyone on here:

SJW

"A pejorative term for an individual who repeatedly and vehemently engages in arguments on social justice on the Internet, often in a shallow or not well-thought-out way, for the purpose of raising their own personal reputation. A social justice warrior, or SJW, does not necessarily strongly believe all that they say, OR EVEN CARE ABOUT THE GROUPS THEY ARE FIGHTING ON BEHALF OF. They typically repeat points from whoever is the most popular blogger or commenter of the moment, hoping that they will “get SJ points” and become popular in return. They are very sure to adopt stances that are “correct” in their social circle.
THE SJW’S FAVORITE ACTIVITY OF ALL IS TO DOGPILE. Their favorite websites to frequent are Livejournal and Tumblr. They do not have relevant favorite real-world places, because SJWs are primarily civil rights activists only online."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2015/10/07/why-social-justice-warrior-a-gamergate-insult-is-now-a-dictionary-entry/


methinks it does

It's like you get invested in the characters and they're telling you those characters don't even matter - they weren't real. Ok, we know that, but do you have to ruin it for us?

I thought I was the only one thinking this. His comedic delivery is perfect. Everyone else is not bad, but he's got it down.

What symbolism. I wasn't seeing it. I'll give this show a 7, mainly because I did not like the last episode. I think it would have been about an 8.3 for me if the last episode had been done even moderately well.

There's nothing wrong with liking it, and I agree with your opinion that there was a lot missing. My personal opinion was the ending was not done well at all. You shouldn't have had so much filler in there. As many people have stated before, put the fairytales in a youtube or DVD extra, but finish the rest of the storylines. What happened in the 4 months those guys were separated? What happened with Tiffy and Tum? Where did Mork go? I think they needed at least one more episode to complete this, or they had to tighten up the last three episodes. I liked many elements of this show but judging it purely on its merits, without thinking of the BL genre, I can't rate it that high. Again, if you liked the show, you have your own way of rating things and you should rate according to your personal preferences.

Here it is for context: Social justice warrior (SJW) is a pejorative term used for an individual who promotes socially progressive and liberal views, including feminism, civil rights, gay and transgender rights, and multiculturalism. The accusation that somebody is an SJW carries implications that they are pursuing personal validation rather than any deep-seated conviction, and engaging in disingenuous arguments.

The phrase originated in the late 20th century as a neutral or positive term for people engaged in social justice activism. In 2011, when the term first appeared on Twitter, it changed from a primarily positive term to an overwhelmingly negative one. I've looked it up on various dictionaries and it is now mostly considered a derogotary term. Here are a few https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/sjw, quoting the Oxford dictionary https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/social_justice_warrior.

This is just from wikipedia [my apologies], but I think it captures the idea well enough. Of course, the term is very old and derives from a similar phrase from the 1800's, and has only been used as a pejorative in the past few decades. I think you must admit that the pejorative use of the phrase dominates. I can't think of when it was used in a positive context, personally. Here's a nice article as to maybe when the phrase became disparaging: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2015/10/07/why-social-justice-warrior-a-gamergate-insult-is-now-a-dictionary-entry/

People will forget about it soon. He's finally accepted Mork, so maybe we'll see a change in everyone's opinion of Pi. He's likeable when he's not being the hissing kitty.

That's too bad, and it's nearly impossible to find the book online. I'm not interested in the "incest" story but about Nan's tragic backstory.

I agree with that. It's not the way to start a relationship, for sure, but this is fiction. I think you can take it as a realistic representation from which various lessons can be drawn. I didn't like what the 3 daughters did in King Lear but I can learn from it. I'm guessing you don't like the depiction of any assault in dramas, but we'll have to agree to disagree on that point.

Quoting above about the two takes on what happened with YongJie and XingSi in their first sexual encounter: "If you enjoy this, you're a bad person" and "I'm not a bad person, because what happened wasn't bad" are both terrible takes. I agree with the first part but most of have not been taking the second line of reasoning at all. It is more like this is fiction and something bad might have happened there, but we're not going to judge the artistic merits of the show based on our moral views as to what took place between the two characters. Most people taking this line of reasoning did not excuse YongJie's actions and some did excuse it - but that wasn't the point.

Actually what Mzmariam is saying is not new at all, except for highlighting the fact that he believes what Yong Jie did was unethical. He's just stating the main argument about this being fiction and that people shouldn't be drawing life lessons from it. Read SandyTF below as an example. Or just the previous post by debikeyks.

This show is harmless fun. The only thing I don't like is that screechy ladyboy who is the Queen of screech - I can't believe we got to this level. Bebomb acts like a stalker, especially in the bathroom scene where Jin is drunk. This makes his courting of Jin unappealing so far, but I feel they do have some good chemistry.

They finally got out of that endless loop of Pi rejecting Mork with his bratty, sniveling whining. But I had to sit through that terrible crying scene in the rain to get there [OMG I would rather listen to 10 minutes of screeching ladyboys]. What was that? I would have edited that out. Maybe just replace it with a scene of Phuwin just doing some quiet sobbing.

I did think the rest of the episode was pretty good. The explanation for the meaning of the title, Fish Upon the Sky, was placed well coming soon after Pi is rejected by Nan. I like all the scenes with the adorkable gang. Duean and Meen's erection scene was hilarious. Overall I thought the episode was pretty decent and things are finally moving forward with the plot.

This is a much more sober and judicious objection than what we have seen on here.
I disagree with you on a few major points. As many have said before Xing Si wanted to be with his brother but he just wasn't able to get over some social conditioning. His brother has been shown through his diaries to have a great love and understanding for Xing Si and would never do anything to hurt him. He has tried to help Xing Si in every way possible. All situations have a context and what seems like a bad action according to societal norms might not be given a particular situation and the motives of the individuals have to always be taken into consideration. What were Yong Jie's motives? He always tried to help and protect his brother, and yet he was stuck not being able to get into a relationship that both he and Xing Si wanted. He could have waited for several years but he thought of this solution which might not have been the best, but there was nothing horribly wrong with it. It's just two lovers that wanted to get together but couldn't due to the unique obstacles that this relationship had to prevent it from being fulfilled.

As far as the alcohol, consent becomes complicated and we shouldn't be so certain about when consent is possible with alcohol. I suggest you read down below a post from Truth Dares [www.whitman.edu/campus-life/diversity/title-ix-and-sexual-misconduct/sexual-misconduct-prevention-and-response-network/incapacity-defined] that lists all the various contexts and scenarios of consent when alcohol has been consumed. Things become very complicated when we talk about consent and alcohol and we all need to read much more about it [myself included] before we say THIS IS A SITUATION WHERE I KNOW CONSENT WAS IMPOSSIBLE. I'm saying that because we keep on going in circles about this issue on this board.

One point I will give you is that alcohol is a pleasure stimulator, and may act as an aphrodisiac, as you say, but I wish you would look again at the context of this relationship and that both brothers did really love each other, but Xing Si had no idea how to consummate the relationship. He would have been your typical 40 year old virgin if Yong Jie hadn't taken some action, but I'll give you that Yong Jie was rushing it and could have waited several more years. Here you could be correct about him being young and impatient, but even that is not certain.

I'm glad you see this as being fiction. There are so many shows that are not BL that are extremely dark and no one bats an eyelash about them. We don't have to have such a super high standard for BL's that is way beyond any other genre. Of course, we all are responsible to teach kids about ethics and should stop blaming tv show for our failure to educate children about morality.

I love that couple. I don't know why everyone just focuses on Bas and Marco. James is a great character and Ait reminds me of Pete from Love by Chance - he's always so cute in the way he interacts with James.

What are you smoking?

I like story line 2 and 3 more tbh. You should have had a polyamorous relationship with 3 guys for 1. Yours Sincerely, Bua.

An ending should never have filler. It's supposed to be the climax. They had so many dramatic storylines they could have used to finish the series and they went with filler that was just empty piffle. To clean up all the loose threads they probably needed one more episode as well.

I just feel like these people just choked when they had to come up with this finale. It just destroyed the whole show. I did like some aspects of the series and I thought it had great potential. It is rare that an ending does such damage to a show, but this one is certainly an example. I guess it reminds me of Game of Thrones where you had to remember all the good parts that came before the end and make yourself rewrite the finale in your head to salvage it.

The first half was way better and I thought they were going to hit it out of the park, and that incredibly lame 2nd half which I almost fell asleep through destroyed it. It's also a big turn off thinking that woman at the end is supposed to be the embodiment of Gene - gaaaaahhh!