solipsism5

Is this just a ratings blip across all of dramalist? All the shows I'm watching suddenly went up but this one went up like through the roof. I've never seen a 10 point shift in one day [from 7.4 to 8.4]

Can someone also explain to me why the demographic breakdown of the ratings never corresponds to the overall ratings? Before this blip happened I noticed Fish Upon the Sky should have been much higher than 7.4 based on the fact that 70-80 percent of the viewers were young and they scored it at like an 8.4.

Me, personally, I watch all the shows and never care about the ratings, but I hate that people will ignore a show because of the low ratings - what makes it worse is some of those ratings seem to be totally inaccurate.

Woah, Ratings Jump to 8.7! That's why episode 9 was the best, it changed the whole feel of the series and suddenly things got way better.

I think episode 4 was very well done. I’m confused as to why some thought it was slow. I think this being more of an indie production, you don’t have your normal Hollywood pacing. Dialogue has some natural awkward pauses to recreate how people normally speak. In a high budget BL like Lovely Writer you have a lot of ‘drama’ created by shifting camera angles, lighting, etc. that you won’t see here because of its low budget. There are also few outbursts of emotions, because, again, this does not happen in the real world. Despite all that, this is a great show and is full of a lot of action that is natural. I think the comedy in this show is just great. I love the scene where Ait has to come up with a lie to Bas and is stumbling like crazy, but he pulls out a good excuse at the end each time. You think Bas would call BS on him, but it’s like he’s dense but still suspicious – it’s just such a subtle balance that makes the scene so ingeniously funny. P’Aam also mixes it up with some traditional comedy, like when Director James and Ait are hiding under the table to avoid producer Tee. It blends in so well with their non-traditonal comedy and both are amusing.

I think it’s great how Ait just totally blows off his big pay cut and still goes after Director James like absolutely nothings has happened. This is done so naturally without any high drama like in a Hollywood production. Ait just goes after James in an aggressive yet very low-key way that is really very different from your typical BL.

The scene with the producer where Tee says the actors are just slaves, and just to be treated like products you buy off a grocery shelf is just hyperbolic humor. P’Aam shows Tee is not that inhuman when you see he is very affected by the illness of his mother later on in the scene. Tee is a complex character. Remember, he is the one that talks like a petty bureaucrat that’s obsessed by rules, but he’s the one that’s going to ignore all the rules and go after one of the actors. P’Aam is showing you the hypocrisy that you find in the real world and doing it with some really incisive writing.
Yes, this show serves as an expose to the BL industry but it is also a very well crafted drama that should be appreciated for its very clever screenplay. This is writing that has humor, realism and compassion that is just very natural. People are just so used to their normal BL dramas they can’t appreciate something that has a totally different format. If you’re willing to try something new, this show is really very entertaining.

This show is so positive and breezy. It really makes me happy watching it.

I'm not going to be too particular about criticizing it, but that scene with the alcohol was just jarring. Does Pi have the alcohol tolerance of a 5 year old? You have to be stupefyingly drunk to talk to someone for several minutes and then kiss them for another minute without realizing who they are. I'll just take that as comedy ;-)

Episode 9 was really the best.
I think it's the episode that let's me recommend this series to others. I was kind of on the fence before. I think the rest of the episodes were needed to give you the backstory so you can enjoy this one, but this one had almost all of the drama of the rest of the series combined.
The long coming out scene with Gene was really well done. The father keeps getting suspicious over little things and the tension keeps building for it feels like an hour. Everyone tries to pull things back with small talk, but even their small talk accidentally reminds Gene's father of things like how the two boys were always very attached to each other as children. The wives start joking about having a wedding for the two, and even though the father doesn't like the joke he finally relents and everything seems to have returned to normal - it would seem like Gene and Nubsib were about to get away without any harm. It's at that point that you can see how courageous Gene is by actually bringing it back and coming out. His confontation with his father after the dinner is just very raw and visceral- the acting there was fantastic. Gene is actually an intensely emotional person and Up does a great job portraying that. It's very moving when he says he's an honest person and that his father should appreciate him [for being the good person that he is].
I feel the father is another self-loather like Aoey. He lashes out at his family, but it comes from hating himself. There is a lot of good acting here by everyone [except Nubsib]. I felt Nubsib's father played your more traditional homophobic father pretty well - he's homophobe light compared to Aoey and Gene's fathers. The wives are always more sympathetic in these shows than the fathers, and I believe Gene's mother is more upset because of her husband than Gene's coming out.
The early part of the episode was also excellent with a lot of the cat and mouse games of Aoey. Bruce's acting is just perfect for that role - he never overplays Aoey who is one of the most subtle villains you'll see in any drama.
This episode is definitely a 10 for me. I really like the earlier episodes as well, but not near as much. Gene's first breakdown [when he discovers Nubsib lied to him], and Aoey's confrontation with his father, are the only things approaching this episode in terms of drama. I think the lightness of the rest of the show, though, serves as a nice contrast to the few moments where there is a lot of intense emotions.

That character Aoey is just evil. I think he just pretends to like people so he can play with them. I like how the show has some nice realism here. The whole situation with Aoey from his homophobic father, to his treacherous sister is much more real than the rest of the show. I would have expected Aoey, given his background to be made into a sympathetic figure, but it is really innovative that they chose to make him into a villain, instead.
His talks with Gene in the bathroom of the hotel are just so malevolent if you just look at his eyes and body language. He is also very self-loathing as you can tell when he's crying while drinking by himself. You want Gene to run away from him and may wonder how naive Gene can be to keep giving Aoey another chance. I actually think the writers portray Gene accurately here, because he comes from a very insulated, wealthy background and, in addition to that, he's like a hermit. He doesn't understand people well at all. In the real world, many of us have given someone like Aoey multiple chances, as well, even though we should be running away. I think the show portrays reality really well here. Aoey also keeps pulling you back in by doing some small nice acts like helping Nusib with his acting. His fake acts of kindness just allow him to get back into people's good graces so he can play with them some more.

Aoey needs to have a very dramatic transformational moment before Mork can even have a small chance of being in a relationship with him. You have to feel sorry for Mork for liking such a broken, emotionally damaged person like Aoey.

Everyone has to get beyond how they were brought up and take responsibility for their behavior. You have to get out of excusing yourself for being a jerk because of your past. You have to consider how you might be hurting others when you don't deal with your personal history no matter how brutal it might be. When Aoey can do that he will be able to have a real relationship. Before that, he will only be toxic.

What is that? Do you have a link for a particular site? I often can't watch shows that are "not in my region". I don't mind paying for one.

Fuck me, that has to be the funniest thing I've ever read on here ever. I know I never talk on here like that, but damn, SandeeTF you got some skills ;-)

Jeno has the weird hair highlights (Near will have completely black hair). This is really the easiest way to differentiate them. It really was about the biggest mistake the director made here. The director also makes the mistake of having Arthur's gang go after both of them which is also rather confusing.

Overall, this is not a big issue. You'll get used to it after a couple of episodes and figure out who is who.

I like his character a lot as well. He is very gentle and has a good heart. I think it's actually interesting that they have gone with an introvert as the main character in a show. I don't know of too many dramas that have done that. Most shows like leads that are very emotional and dramatic. I think they took a chance with doing a show like this. Gene has a hidden strength that comes out at times. He has a lot of courage which is probably not like a lot of your more introverted characters. He's actually very interesting in a different sort of way.

If I'm right about Paper then this has to be the first BL with all openly gay men involved in relationships. I personally don't like the baffled straight man that falls in love with a gay guy with no hint that he was even latently homosexual. I'm fine with having a few here and there, and it's only fair to give that to the straight female BL crowd. I seriously think there might be a new phase going on though - the straight female BL crowd might now be moving towards straight acting gay men that play sports as an acceptable alternative. I think this would be a nice improvement. This show points us in the right direction, I think.

I really like this drama. I really think it's done very well and has a lot of sincerity to it. It's got this low-key kind of feel that is still very impactful.
I like how they do the couples in this series. They really do spend time developing all of them, and each one has its individual character. Two of the them have a good contrast with each other: M fears rejection and is very secretive with Near; Chris is totally over the top with Jeno and makes his relationship into a public spectacle.

The relationship with Paper and Sky is a mystery. I think Paper is actually openly gay. I'm just going by the poster in his room of the movie Happy Together by Wong Kar Wai, a movie that studies a gay relationship in microscopic detail and which has elements of gay prostitution. Its a very very gay movie that I don't think a straight boy would have hanging up in his room. You might think that poster was just put there in that room by accident, but that identical poster is in Sky's room [end of episode 3 in the corner of the room]. The director wants you to notice it for some reason. I believe it is tell you that Paper is also openly gay and that we now have to figure out the real reason the two aren't together. In other words this is not "A Theory of Love" scenario where a gay person doesn't want to ruin his friendship with his straight friend by coming on to him.

I really believe this relationship has such intense emotion expressed in it, and that kiss was really passionate. Even after the kiss the next day, there is such intense emotion between the two of them in the locker room. I was really moved by it because I don't really see the sadness to the level of pathos that Sky expressed that often. That wasn't melodrama either, you can really feel the natural heartbreak that comes from a realistic situation.

Lol, have a nice day.

I still say he's an introvert, but I'll just leave it at that. I believe you are simplifying things. He could have some internal homophobia as well as some aversion to being hit on by his friend. You can't be certain, and he looked pretty scared when he thought he might be attracted to men. I was getting at there was some unconscious struggle going on. At least you've toned it down. Thanks for that at least.

Maybe I get it from when MuRen asks himself, 'I like woman right' soon after the kissing incident? I'm also an introvert and he seems like one to me. I'm also in a job involving sales so maybe you're also making assumptions. I can agree that some of his inability to communicate might also stem from this being his best friend hitting on him. Finally, you don't have to be so rude and condescending about it.

Excellent summary! History 4 is really making you reflect on a wide variety of topics. It's a really amazing show, in my opinion.

I think one of the important topics concerning the use of alcohol and its relation to sexual assault is that most major studies show there is no proof either way. If you want to do some research on it here is one link https://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/arh25-1/43-51.htm. It's really a very complex issue involving many factors including the personal characteristics of both the victims and perpetrators. There are many situational elements involved as well. Many times people in this comment section are being very reductionist when talking about it. I'm just saying you shouldn't be so certain when you are discussing this topic.

The screenwriters gave you a more clear cut case of rape with the VP and MuRen which involved a drug much more explicitly used for rape. Alcohol can be used by a rapist but if they had a choice there are much more effective drugs out there for them to use. I'm not even saying that this is anything that clears Yong Jie, but was presented as a scenario to make you contrast a real rape situation with one that is uncertain.

Thanks for the correction. I was actually trying to get to the point that the screenwriters were making fun of the tropes. That part is still right.

I think it was very well done how they portrayed the fight between LiCheng and MuRen. MuRen is very introverted and has a lot of internalized homophobia. He's not even able to voice his opinions regarding his issues. He is just completely controlled by his unconscious mind and doesn't even understand why he is running away from LiCheng whom he really really likes. The screenplay conveys this so well. In the shot where he is looking at MuRen from the elevator you can also tell he is very depressed because of his internal conflict. LiCheng finally gives MuRen some breathing room so that he can he can finally relieve some of that internal pressure (it's like LiCheng's internal homophobia caused a fight or flight, self-survival mechanism).

The scene with LiCheng and Mei Fang the crazy fujoshi is just very funny and clever. LiCheng who was in a fake relationship with MuRen to get Mei Fang is now using a fake relationship with Mei Fang to get LiCheng. That has some nice symmetry there. I feel like the screenwriters were making fun of all the tropes by piling them on top of each other. This is not your typical BL where they take all the tropes seriously.

Yong Jie shows us again signs of normalcy. He is willing to step back from his relationship from his brother if his brother is not interested in the relationship. Apparently he got his brother drunk to film that video of him taking advantage of him so he can take the blame for sexually harassing his brother when the father finds out about their relationship. The screenwriters keep giving you clues that Yong Jie is not a rapist, or sociopath. I'll stick to the fact that they were just doing this stuff with Yong Jie to add a light touch of darkness to add complexity and some misdirection. They also are trying to tell you not to accuse people of things so quickly - it's always best to gather the evidence and give people a chance.