solipsism5

We'll just have to agree to disagree. I've read quite a bit and I haven't seen that done and certainly not all of it at once. I'm not trying to be argumentative. Have a nice evening.

Thanks for the detail. It's been a long time since I watched that show, really one of my favorites.
What you pointed out though is not dramatic irony. Here is a definition here: a "literary device by which the audience’s or reader’s understanding of events or individuals in a work surpasses that of its characters." In your example above, we would have to know what the guy looked like, and we would then have more knowledge than Emmett. In the example I cited above from Othello, Iago speaks directly to the audience and we have more knowledge than the rest of the cast concerning his motives.
I also said above that the dramatic irony used here also has several other unique elements. 1. Instead of villain like a Iago we are actually hiding a good character Mork, from the audience. That is not typical because it's usually shady dealings of a bad character that create dramatic tension for the cast. 2. The dramatic irony is ending after only a short time when it has almost always been carried out for a whole show, season, etc., like in Othello. 3. The reveal is actually being used to get you to watch the next episode so it also serves as a dramatic hook. I've never seen that done before. If you have seen an exampleof where that has been done before, please let me know. It is not done in Othello, where Iago is just revealed in the middle of the scene. 4. When a villain does shady things in a show and it is revealed to the audience through dramatic irony we don't see a visual representation of that, like Iago would have to be covered in a veil of darkness or some similar metaphor. I think they actually presented a visual metaphor for the whole dramatic device while at the same time used that same metaphor to depict the secret texting.

It is really just amazing how complex what happened there was. Again, I don't see great artistic merit with the rest of the show. I just thought they did that part like superlatively well and it shows that some writer in their group has great potential.

My apologies, I misread that and it was obvious what you meant. It was kind of late when I saw this. I can think of one other one, Generation Y that has a couple from the beginning, Wayu and Pha.

I myself like realism but I can appreciate a fairy-tale like setting as well. Good art comes in many forms. You can appreciate Jane Austen and Zola equally well, especially if you like some variety. There is something nice about having a show set in an environment where gay people aren't the marginalized group, but I understand that is not realistic at all and might not appeal to your personal aesthetic. I don't think it hurts shows like Brothers or 2nd Chance, to be honest.

I agree the BL Fandom has many toxic elements but they are evolving. I think it's an improvement when you get beyond two straight guys falling in love all the time and it seems we are moving in the right direction there. There is obviously a lot of other issues to resolve, and it seems worse in BL than any other genre. I don't see, though, why BL can't celebrate more of "gayness in all its splendour". I said in the previous post that we have a depiction of a very supportive LGBTQ mom in this show, and there is one in 2nd Chance that is equally supportive. It's an improvement over the depiction of all the homophobic parents in most of the previous shows. I don't think, in general, there is any problem with BL moving in this direction and it can still remain BL.

I'm not sure about how the screenplay writers ripped out the homophobia in the novels. I've only read one or two. Can you provide an example. I'm not exactly certain what you are talking about there. Directors always change the writing from the novel even if it's a classic like Great Expectations, to provide something that is more appealing to their audience. I wouldn't call that a form of censorship, though. They are just concerned about the bottom line. If they are really listening to a bunch of screaming BL fans (that represent just a vocal minority) rather than their producers that want to make a profit they would be a little foolish.

If you want a show with a healthy dose of realism in it that isn't watered down, I would watch Call it What You Want which addresses a lot of the toxic elements in BL. I know some people mentioned it above to you, but I'm mentioning it for a different reason. Call It What You Want represents the counter-movement to toxic BL culture. GMMTV is actually trying to throw some heavy shade on this show because it heavily criticizes them, but perhaps they will take some lessons out of it and improve their practices. We can all do our part to counter the voices of the really crazy BL fans by supporting people like P'Aam with our own counter social media campaign. I know a lot of us don't have time for that. We can at least counter people in comment sections like this one, or other similar platforms.

I am talking about something technical here. I'll go through my points 1 by 1 and let me know if you disagree, because I think what the writers did here is truly ingenious and also very unexpected for a show with very little other artistic merit (to be honest). First can you point to me another drama where dramatic irony is used where it is not a villain but a heroic figure that is being hidden from the other character? This is my first point why Fish Upon the Sky is doing something unique. Second, when is dramatic irony not dragged out for virtually the whole show? This is also innovative, and shows some confidence in the writers not to rely on a bag of tricks to enhance the drama in the show. I will admit that Mork hasn't been totally revealed to Pi but Pi has virtually found out who he is. That in itself is new. Third, when is dramatic irony used in a drama as a dramatic hook to get you to the next episode, or scene. I understand this is a technical question and I will be willing to explain this question in detail if you want. No, it is has not been done before like this. Usually a reveal occurs at some point like in Othello where it just occurs in the middle of the scene, but it is not a hook to the next scene. I'm just going by the evidence of my own reading. If you can point to any example, please let me know because I don't know of any and I'm a pretty comprehensive reader of all western literature. Fourth, I'm saying that the scenes when the texting appears they are conducted in a dark room where there are a lot of shadows and this is used as a metaphor for doing "shady" things and I will definitely say that when people are doing things in an underhanded way, that is doing things in the shadows. I think the allusion is conscious and definitely effective. I'm not saying any of this to be argumentative, but I'm pretty sure I'm right. I really would appreciate some concrete examples like other dramas where this occurs, but I appreciate your feedback. I really think people don't understand what I'm talking about. This is not the right forum for this kind of discussion and this is certainly not a cerebral show that would normally warrant this kind of dialogue. If you don't wish to continue this here please message me for a more detailed discussion, but don't worry about this either way. :)

There are quite a few shows that have openly gay characters. Cupid Coach, at least three guys Latte, Phu, Nite 2. Second Chance, currently airing has Sky, Near, Chris and probably two others. Brothers, currently airing has Chol, Prab, and virtually the whole cast - who isn't openly gay in that one? Lovely Writer has Aoey, and Nusib. Gaya Sa Pelikula has Jose, ITSAY has Oh-Aew and his first boyfriend Bas. Love By Chance had Pete. There is definitely a proliferation currently which is a very positive development - I don't recall old BL's where virtually the whole cast is openly gay. I can sense we have moved on from the Love has no gender trope, and we are seeing a lot more acceptance of LGBTQ people. Kudos to the straight female BL audience for being much more accepting.

Really? I don't recall that at all. All 4 things I described? It has been a number of years since I watched that but I certainly don't recall that.

There are some other uses of dramatic irony in recent BL's. The show Brothers which is a really good drama that's currently airing has a secret texter as well. In Together With Me, Plern Pleng conspires with several characters against Max. These are just your typical uses of dramatic irony and you can note how they use the typical formula of using it for most of a season to milk it out. Writers in the future might say Fish Upon the Sky's writers were the first ones to have the confidence not to rely so heavily on this device to create dramatic tension. It really took several hundred years to get there - everyone else just drags it out forever. BTW, Mork might not reveal himself in the next episode, but we have never even seen a character attempt to pierce the veil of the dramatic irony curtain so early.

I really like this show. We needed a little bit of light humor after all the BL'S that we had this season that were so serious. I like the silly humor, but if it's not your kind, just move on, but there are other really good elements to this show.

I've mention that this show is one of the only ones that uses dramatic irony in BL, and it does it in the most unique way I've ever seen in any show in any genre, period. You can really take a lesson out this if you are a serious writer - I'm not joking. I'll mention 4 elements here:

1. This dramatic irony is one where you don't really want the character to be revealed. This is totally not typical. In Othello, by Shakespeare, Iago is revealed to hate Othello and wants to basically get him killed and you want the rest of the characters in the play to do something about it. Hours later everyone is upset because Iago gets away with having Othello kill his wife and himself. In this case, which is pretty rare, you don't want Mork to be revealed. He's been a prince and is staying hidden with positive motives.
2. Dramatic irony doesn't end that quickly. You can go for a whole play or movie without the villain being revealed to the others. This just never happens. The author usually likes to set up the dramatic tension for the whole season, play, movie, etc.
3. The possible end of the dramatic irony is being used as a dramatic hook to get you to watch the next episode. I've never seen dramatic irony ever used this way. We have another big hook in this episode, the masquerade party, but that is your typical dramatic hook. This reveal of the texter is unique.
4. The way the texting is depicted in a room full of shadows is a wonderful metaphor for the whole art of dramatic irony which is something that makes full use of shadow-play. The room here is also a metaphor for the shadiness of secret texting as well. If you want to say something to someone, you should just say it and even if Mork is a good guy he's doing something murky here. At the minimum he is manipulating his friend to do what he wants.

I'm just blown away at how much went on there which just this one dramatic device. It's like listening to a melody in four point counterpoint, or witnessing anything in art that is very complex. I'm pretty certain in all the dramas, plays, movies, and novels I've read or seen that I've never seen this done before. Each element I outlined up there is singular and unique, in combination, it is just really unbelievable what happened in this drama. I'm not saying that the rest of the writing is at this level - the comedy would have to be at the level of Seinfeld, and the music score written by Mozart for that to be the case. It's just that the writers are actually really good and have great potential.

I was totally not expecting to see this. It's like finding a million dollar lottery ticket in a garbage heap. Writers in the future will actually have to cite this as the first instance they saw these techniques being used. In art, new innovations really don't come along that often. It took several hundred years from when we had the first plays in Athens to the first novel by Petronius (Satyricon). And most innovations are not good. If you look at a lot of modern abstract art you will see this. The artist is like I did something totally innovative there and you're like, yeah but I hated it and it's ugly. What they did in Fish Upon the Sky does work and can be used by writers in the future. Kudos to them for doing something just stellar, in my opinion.

I like how the secret texter is basically known to everyone from the beginning. It's the first use of dramatic irony I've ever seen in a BL (where the audience knows more than the characters). Even this show which seems totally unintellectual is doing something new.
I think Pi's makeover is effective. I think the adorkable gang not only had him take off his glasses and get rid of his braces, but gave him some pointers on how to change his demeanor. His character is definitely less dorky and more appealing to people. I know it's a superficial change, but most people are superficial. There, I said it ;-)

That totally makes sense. I'll make it worth the actor's time. But who the hell would want Nite 1 anyway. But a good actor, I'll make it worth their while for sure, lol.

Indeed, I am SHOOKETH by that kiss as well. I love how you said that :)

There are only 133 reviews so far. That's very few. If you get your friends to watch this drama they can bring this score up easily. Do your part, this drama deserves a much higher rating than 7.5. I have no connection with this production, but please, please encourage people to give it a high rating because that score up there is a joke.

OMG that was some of the funniest real life comedy I've ever seen. I know, I couldn't believe he was on here either, lol.

I do think it's hard to solve. What is your solution (not being sarcastic here)? I think the movies make virtually nothing in profit so there is little to go around. The producers give the actors an outlet to make money by giving them this fanservice stuff. I hate that it has to be done, but I feel like that is the only way the actors can make any money.

If the shows do make some more profit than what I'm speculating here, then the producers are at fault. I just don't have any hard data here. But I'm assuming the BL industry makes very little per production. Honestly, no actors would do these shows if they didn't have the fan service.

And what do the actors get paid? Does anyone have even the slightest clue? I assume it's very little, but, again, no hard data.

He is also in Together With Me playing Mew, as Tul's rival for the conniving Plern Pleng. He injures Tul on the soccer field, and sends thugs to beat him up. He's pretty versatile. The teacher he plays here is totally the opposite of his other roles.

The person responding to you on your thread above is the actual director. Stephanie wasn't being sarcastic. AAmanusorn is P'Aam.

I like how they represent the different boy's rooms in this series with wall art. If you see Near's room back in episode 2 you'll see he has two posters of a gay movie "God's Own Country", in two different areas of the room. It's like a sign he's gay but not as openly gay as Sky. His room is full of art posters as well, like a Van Gogh which shows his connection to his future boyfriend, M, who has a little Renaissance picture by his computer. Also in Near's room is a large poster of Forest Gump which is a reminder how Near, himself, is treated like an outcast. Sky's room is full of gay posters of some really good gay dramas from all around the world. They mix in some well known one's like Milk with some exceptional unknown ones - really thoughtful how they chose them. It seems like the design team has really good taste, overall. I think the series has an unexpected depth to it. It's got openly gay characters, and addresses school bullying (given the thousand shows set in schools in Thai drama you think this would be portrayed more often). The show's got a light feel to it but seems to have stronger emotions and more realistic settings than most BL's. It's really got a lot going for it.

One other thing I like is how Sky is feeding Paper in front of his mom. It's like he's kissing him in front of her, and she doesn't bat an eye. She's a really exceptional LGBTQ mom. I don't think I've seen this level of openness before - it seems a little innovative.

I love the kiss in this last episode and the look of desperation / longing in Sky's eyes after Paper rejects him. I think it is so rare to see any emotion in these BL's - there's just a lot of kissing with no real looks of affection or emotion. I think this is why it's important to have an openly gay character - they can express emotions about other men. In normal BL's we are wasting so much time with straight men being baffled by their desire for another man, you can never get there.
I was also wondering why Paper didn't realize his openly gay friend who is so touchy-feely might be attracted to him. It's like most gay men and straight men don't interact that way because they don't want to break boundaries.

Wow, that is unbelievably cheap. That's the cost of mid-priced minivan. Is that really the cost? I started thinking it might be cheap when I heard P'Aam's salary, but that really kind of floors me. What is the producer even talking about when he talks about the risk the investor's are taking?

Lol, I just saw it after I posted. But good on both shows for discussing it. Second Chance does even a better job with it so far. The bully is suspended for 1 semester, and there is a support network set up around the victim. We have yet to see anyone help Pi in this drama.