The delulu fans are those who fall hardest for all of this.Elisheva:
Agree with everything you've said here. The agencies and media outlets are largely complicit in facilitating all that unhealthy messed up shit. In cases like SK, the government too. China has some of the most unhinged fans there are but at least the government and agencies lean hard on tracking and sueing the most problematic insane fans and tries to do some regulation. In Thalland I feel like it's case by case and agency by agency, how it's handled. And I I don't know much of what goes on with Japanese fandoms since I'm almost entirely out of that countries media/celeb scene with the exception of reading One Punch Man manga and skimming the occasional BL from them.
For the 'delulu' fans, as they've been dubbed, they feel validated when they're calling 30 year old men smol kid/baby boi/babygirl/tiny small cute thing, I guess they just feel they can say whatever they want, because to them they're discussing a product not a person. But point that out to them and they'll tell you how it's not true and how much they lOvE that celeb/idol, without being able to see/acknowledge the disrespect and general disregard for the celebs in their behaviour.
I feel like a lot of Thai fans love cuteness and these cute, innocent, kid-like images are created on purpose to deepen the paradocial bond/obsession.TakoOo:
Even just the way you've described it here is off putting and cringe lol
While watching some of these videos I’ve realised that it does get quite easy to start thinking of these actors almost as cute kids, in a way.
I've seen some of GMMTV's highlight clips over the years and while they do some goofy editing to make things seem silly and 'cute', I have still never seen any of the actors kids, and I say this as someone who is older than them, so again, so I still don't get it. I think the only ones I have seen as kids in recent years were the actors in Love Sick 2024, because they were literally kids.
But I see what you're saying, especially when you mention the edits out of China with the baby features, I remember seeing that. I also remember Wang Yibo (who often says exactly what he feels and doesn't pander to fan bullshit) saying many times he doesn't like those edits of himself. But the fans ignore and keep doing it. Another commenter mentioned about how all the moving parts are involved in this nonsense, which is also true and it makes it worse because certain fans who are very susceptible to just following what others do, they latch onto the behaviour and as it gains ground, they normalize it more and more amongst each other while disregarding that the idols/celebs are the same as regular everyday men who would not like to be called that way.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
I have still never seen any of the actors kids, and I say this as someone who is older than them,Lyson:
The under 20s are young enough I could be their gran now. May I be excused for seeing them as kids? =D =D =D
Seriously though, it's characters I sometimes see as kids, not actors. But of course that's appropriate sometimes, especially when the character is still in high school and going through something more difficult than they should have to grapple with at that age, or making the kinds of mistakes young people still in high school make.
Mentioning this because the boundaries between characters and actors are very porous in the minds of some. It won't be the full picture of course, but it may contribute to or make it easier for some to slip into infantilising language.
Like some may begin with something rather normal but it morphs into something problematic, encouraged of course by online social groups. (There may be an element of in-group language & bonding??? Talking in ways which make you part of the group, all that.)
In cases like SK, the government too
Some of what's going on with Thai BL is trying to emulate the (perceived?) economic success of k-pop and k-drama. They were best placed to do it with BL. The branded couple pairings become akin to k-pop boy bands rather than once and done series.
say whatever they want, because to them they're discussing a product not a person. But point that out to them and they'll tell you how it's not true and how much they lOvE that celeb/idol, without being able to see/acknowledge the disrespect and general disregard for the celebs in their behaviour.
Agree. It's an abusive simulacra of 'love' too, but one that's popular. And VERY selfish.
Social media and the distancing of in person/personal connections also factor in. The infantilising language for male actors has clear parallels with infantilising language used for women in decades past. Perhaps you're also old enough to have witnessed how the marketing campaigns to get women to buy beauty products etc were expanded to target men. But I don't know if that's something you're interested in talking about.
Tina:
Quick join just to add that you can select part of the text in someone's reply and hit the quote button that appears. This works only on desktop browser though. I might read this thread from where I left off but man, am I so lazy to do that. >_<"
Thank you but unfortunately it doesn’t seem to work for me. I’m using IPad Pro but the desktop version of mdl (not the app). Maybe that’s the reason I can’t quote properly? Idk..
But I mean, it’s true isn’t it? The production houses, brands, etc. want to strengthen the parasocial bond between actors and fans as much as possible bc that’s a sure way to secure fans’ financial support and investment and that’s the ultimate goal here I think.
Yep, it's true and that's even more reason it's off putting and cringe.
Is it cringe? Sure. On a deeper level I find it rather scary and, frankly, disturbing (specifically the depth of the parasocial bond that is openly encouraged. The aspect of infantilization and cutification is simply one part of it)
Also agreed, that's why I call these types of fans unhinged. I don't only blame those marketing it that way, the fans are absolutely to blame as well because they should be able to see what they're doing is messed up (many can at least) but I think the majority of fans allow themselves very easily to follow these kinds of trends and justify them on different levels.
That’s how you get Gun Attaphan being called a babygirl in every second YouTube short he’s in even though he’s neither a baby nor a girl but a 32 yo man who’s been successful, financially independent and supporting his younger sister for a long time.
See this is so ick to me, calling this grown man babygirl. Even though I know that some of these actors (the minority of them) would probably be okay (okayish) with these stupid ways of being called, MOST would not.
He’s the shortest actor in gmmtv (or at least the shortest among other gmmtv actors his age), his fashion is often on the stereotypically cute side from what I’ve personally seen though not exclusively, as well as his make-up. There are also plenty of videos where he’s very affectionate towards his co-stars, hugging them, often being carried by them etc.
It’s very obvious what his image is supposed to represent especially if you consider that the OffGun symbol is a literal 🍼
I don't know much about this actor but the babybottle symbol is so yikes, that's quite literally referring to him like he's an infant and even after everything you described about his behaviour and relationships with his co-stars, I still see nothing 'babyish' about it.
The fans keep intensifying the level of infantalization and the corresponding actor’s images keep cementing it making the whole thing an endless, vicious, toxic cycle bc it’s profitable.
Nicely stated.
“delulu”
I hate that fans have accepted shitty words like this and made it their personality, like 'stan' and 'fujoshi', these are NOT positive expressions, they don't have positive meanings, yet these fans are so happy to call themselves mentally unwell batshit crazy fans. 'Fujoshi' is just embarrassing without even needing to say anything if you ask me, like, WHY would a female choose to call herself this way? Why would they be okay with calling herself rotten for liking the visual of two men together?
The fans use the latching on to these trends as a way to be a part of the online community, I personally think they give up critical thinking way too easily to fit in.
dk how to quote parts of the comments so I’ll just use normal quotation marks.
I saw another commenter explained how to quote so I won't repeat!
The under 20s are young enough I could be their gran now. May I be excused for seeing them as kids? =D =D =D
You can see them as 'kids' but they aren't, and even if you see them that way, (not you you, but a collection you of anyone at an age where the actors are decades younger than someone) it would not excuse infantalizing them.
Seriously though, it's characters I sometimes see as kids, not actors. But of course that's appropriate sometimes, especially when the character is still in high school and going through something more difficult than they should have to grapple with at that age, or making the kinds of mistakes young people still in high school make.
Yes, also a different scenario presented here, an IC version of someone presented childishly, whether they're playing children or childish adults (this was basically Santa in P10L which was just awful imo), not about the actor themselves. Being able to differentiate between the two is important and many, too many fans, don't, can't or won't acknowledge that. Although personally, even if they're playing teens in high school, I still wouldn't say I support the infantalizing angle.
(There may be an element of in-group language & bonding??? Talking in ways which make you part of the group, all that.)
Unhealthy methods of fitting though, no? I mean, I know some people struggle with this kind of thing but just getting caught up in certain trends or online behaviour without being able to think for oneself whether it's a positive or negative thing to be a part of it weird to me. Especially when MANY females will be actively complaining about how males don't respect them irl or online and then they go and glaze over the contraditction of their behaviour and do it themselves to the male celebs they 'love'.
Some of what's going on with Thai BL is trying to emulate the (perceived?) economic success of k-pop and k-drama. They were best placed to do it with BL. The branded couple pairings become akin to k-pop boy bands rather than once and done series.
Is that why they made pairings? Yikes. I enjoy some pairs repeated pairs working together, but I have never liked the total permanence of pairings from Thailand because I've always found it problematic for the actors growth in many ways, as well as creating a unhealthy black hole for fans to fall into. We've all seen how problematic it is, and if they've were trying to create some version of the K-pop boy band 'closeness' then yep, major red flags, because we've all seen the train wrecks that call themselves fans in that department.
Perhaps you're also old enough to have witnessed how the marketing campaigns to get women to buy beauty products etc were expanded to target men. But I don't know if that's something you're interested in talking about.
I'll be honest, age nothiwithstanding, I not really in the loop on marketing campaigns for women's beauty products so I can't say I've seen what you're referring to specifically but I can believe it, because I have seen plenty of other unsulting/condescending ad campaigns and trends and stuff aimed at women, but also to other groups of people. This is why critical thinking is important though, being able to notice these things and see them for what they are.
The infantilising language for male actors has clear parallels with infantilising language used for women in decades past.
Agree that is seems to be the case, and I've seen a lot of this way of thinking online and I don't know about you, but I personally think it's not good. It's like they think it justifies 'the turning of the tables'.
You can see them as 'kids' but they aren't, and even if you see them that way, (not you you, but a collection you of anyone at an age where the actors are decades younger than someone) it would not excuse infantalizing them.
Come on Lyson. Read it again. Look at my use of =D =D =D and in particular how I chose to begin the next paragraph - "Seriously though, it's characters I sometimes see as kids, not actors."
Perhaps I should explain the (attempt at a ) joke too? It's finding humour in "How did I get this old" moments, like realising it's shifting from "I'm old enough to be their auntie" to "I'm old enough to be their gran" and that I could conceivably have a grandkid who is learning to drive or coming out, coping with high school pressures or a similar age to some of the new actors. The laugh is about reactions to getting old, not their youth.
Are you assuming I'm using "kid" derogatorily? I'm not. Recognising that someone is young is VERY different from infantilising them. Under 20s are young. Which means recognising that they are still very prone to making growing up mistakes and the most useful responses are different than if they were 10 years older.
I still wouldn't say I support the infantalizing angle.
I didn't ask you to.
Unhealthy methods of fitting though, no?
Bonding through language, shared opinions or practices can be done in healthy or unhealthy ways. There was a lot of that going in the first two pages of this thread, primarily via shared opinions. It's normal. Also using other people's language as the centre, which is just a different way of doing it.
But no, I don't see infantilising anyone as healthy. I was writing about a possible path where a normal reaction might morph into a problematic behaviour and how online communities can foster that. I used "problematic" in the line above what you quoted.
Is that why they made pairings?
Don't know about the origins, only that it's a factor in why there's so much focus on restricted pairings in recent years. I hate the CP system, btw. It stagnates so many actors who could have developed more. I'm still a youth worker at heart and would much prefer to see them grow and thrive.
I don't know about you, but I personally think it's not good. It's like they think it justifies 'the turning of the tables'.
Really? When I've been using phrases like "delulu fans," "VERY selfish," and "an abusive simulacra of 'love'"? Ok.
I'd be surprised if any of them thought of it as "turning the tables" though. (Well maybe someone, there's always someone on the internet doing something if you search long enough =D ) More like it's still floating about as examples of how to talk about an objectified "love" interest.
Some vague memories surfaced from around the time I was abandoning western commercial television - complaints about advertising where men were treated as incapable. I only saw a couple, but it was a high %. This would have been sometime in the 00s or maybe early 10s? That seems a likely contributor to this specific trend.
This is the kind of shit I'm talking about, different asian celebs everyday constantly get posts like this bs wtf 
And incidently he's one of the Asian idols who has plainly stated he doesn't like the baby memes and cutesy stuff his fans say and share. Yet they disregard and continue. The man is just sitting in chair posing with brand clothing ffs.
Come on Lyson. Read it again. Look at my use of =D =D =D and in particular how I chose to begin the next paragraph - "Seriously though, it's characters I sometimes see as kids, not actors."
LOL when I'm typing answers I'm usually working, I'm skimming, I'm rushing so if I do not notice all the details of a reply that's my bad.
I didn't ask you to.
I'm also not referring to you personally if I say you, sometimes it's collective, because there are plenty of people who would use your explanation of reason as their actual reason to do that shit.
It stagnates so many actors who could have developed more.
Absolutely. Many BL and GL fans have developed another unhealthy mindset where they seem to see the sexual orientation the actor/actress plays as being the most important thing no matter what the role is. It's like they either never did or no longer acknowledge what being an 'actor' means/is.
Really? When I've been using phrases like "delulu fans," "VERY selfish," and "an abusive simulacra of 'love'"? Ok.
Once again, I'm skimming for the most direct responses to what's written so I may glaze over the rest, it may seem like I don't get your humor or sarcasm, when really by the time I get to the end of the message I've mostly just forgotten I read them. This is a me problem, but it is something I will probably continue to do because I'm often writing in a hurry.
Well maybe someone, there's always someone on the internet doing something if you search long enough =D
Yes, statistically there is ALWAYS someone doing something one would think would not be done so definitely, it's happening. Even those who are 'delulu', they exist on different levels, from minor to extreme to outright batshit crazy.
