BadPenny

Must look him up. Thank you!

We're halfway through the drama and there is still far too many confusing or unclear points. And some people don't like that. Which is perfectly fair.

And since the first thing someone did was link genie234 to a detailed plot summary of the book, my original statement stands.

People are going to tell you to read the book. Which means the show is lame because if you have to read the book to figure out what's going on, then they didn't include enough context in the show when they made it.

hahah! That's very dedicated of you.

I have to ask though, who is the thirsty as fuck, pretty boi in your avatar?

Objectively yes, it was a very convincing kiss. In other roles I'd have been waving my "Is it hot in here, or is it just them!" flag.

But I feel the quality of a show lies in a lot of things. The overall plot jumps between lame and creepy, for me. I mean man, the context in the frame of their whole relationship left me needing a shower when they kissed. And not in the sexy way. I think it's settling into my brain that one of the things that bothers me is the "grooming" issue. Lian hit 18 when Kuea was 11, if I recall right. And Kuea has been brought up that entire time to accept Lian as his spouse. This is not cool. But I also don't mind if other people are like "I love their pairing.". It's just for me, a plot that relies heavily on a backstory of underage grooming is kinda gross.

Oh dayum! Someone's got the sass. Represent!

You, my friend, are made of Adamantium. My hair caught on fire 3//4 of the way through the first episode.

I can't tell you how much I loved this reaction post. Just... Like my friend says "*Chef's Kiss!*"

You rock, Starsappear. You nicely cut through the false logic.

Now to Sal09

*"As a former literary student..."* I'm not sure why you flagged everyone with your academic past, but I'll see your "former literary student" and raise you one "former fully licensed RN". Currently I am an author and comic artist. I also sculpt professionally from time to time and have a pottery studio from which I sell stuff when I am in the mood.

Can we put our measuring sticks away now?

Contrary to what you believe, we can look at actions for whether they are toxic--without deeper motivation--and identify them by either the intended outcome of the behavior or the impact it had on the character it was perpetrated on. But often times the behavior itself is the best tell.

Such as when Yi was up in Diao's DM's until Diao flinched away. No deeper motivation was needed. We DO know something of those deeper motivations, but knowing that doesn't make Yi's action any less toxic. Just like knowing the motivation behind Lian's actions isn't going to make them less toxic either. And I don't even need to use his treatment of Kuea. I've clocked Lian using toxic behaviors on other people, including his best friend.

Lian is a treasure trove of actions that are as easily identifiable as toxic as Yi's physical aggression is.

I don't care if it's enemies to lovers. But I did melt a little at the moment when Nuea stood up for Kuea. Largely because I love noble characters and that was very noble, at least on the surface.

I was joking hon. I looked at your username and then said that. LOL!

Thank you so much for respecting everyone's right to post here.

And I hate colorism too. I adored the Gen Y universe, inclusive of its many flaws, and I was so happy during season 1 when they left Dun (the actor playing Thanu) dark and lovely in his natural skin tones. But when they filmed season 2 they washed him out to be super pale. It made him look grey and at times ill. And I was so very upset, especially when I would see those same moments in BTS stills and he was darker than ever in real life. It spoke to the intense amount of time spent in post production just to get rid of his stunningly beautiful dark skin. I actually started a hashtag I shot at Star Hunter Entertainment. #Letbrownbebrown

As for 2gether, I loved it a lot. But I did not know the character in the book was dark. I read the book, but my translation at the time was unofficial and VERY sketchy quality. I was apparently too busy being horrified by the book scene with the non-con in it. But I do know that many production companies have a colorism agenda and it really, really sucks.

That's like dead up the truth. Objectively Zee is super hot. And yes, the age gap/power imbalance couples are gross as fuck. They also always involve some degree of infantilization and just...no. No, no, no.

I never said that Tharn and Type were not deeply flawed characters. Or that they did not both participate in separate toxic acts. I did not leave out a single thing. I was very thorough in my monstrous long review of it. And I've since stated here why this show is getting a very different handling from me. But like most points I make, some few people are always going to choose to ignore them.

At this point I don't care if you understand how I see Lian and Yi and Jay's behaviors as toxic. I really don't. I'm hardly the only person who believes this way. And I feel like I and many others have explained it enough that we've done our due diligence.

You are free and welcome to give Lian the benefit of the doubt if you want. I simply have no doubt so I don't feel inclined to give him the benefit. He might improve sufficient the impress me in the future, he may not. But it does not erase that right now he's got a whole basket full of toxic behaviors and given the deliberate, premeditated application of them, I might be able to construct a solid argument that beyond toxic, he's legitimately abusive with it.

Yeah, I am not surprised though. I mean, most social media is shark infested waters and I gave up expecting sane behavior a long while ago. I need a t-shirt that says "Some humans are immune to making sense".

LOL! That's entirely fair. You're totally allowed to love what you love. LOL!

I take it though that you hate KinnPorsche.

yeah, I don't care about the posts liking the show. If you like the show then post about what you like, as often and as much as you care to. By all means.

Honestly the fact is though, most people who like the show aren't posting about that, they're complaining about those of us sharing our dislike of it. I don't think I've read a single post from people who don't like the show telling people who enjoy it that they shouldn't post here. So some folks up in here need to learn tolerance.

Sweet. That was like... Dayum!

You and Suibian swooping in with the razor sharp wit.

You did a great job of making your point. It's just between the text walls of passive aggression, victim blaming, straw man arguments, misdirection and revisionist history and the fact that I am also working on the next script for BBN, my eyes are pools of mush right now.

And I agree that had this been handled correctly Lian not only could have been redeemed but it would have been a rich, nuanced development into a character that really had the depth that comes from making grave mistakes and learning from them.

And yeah, if the end spoiler about Lian bailing out Kuea's parents financially gets used in the drama, swipe all the Lego bricks off the table. No chance to fix that flawed structure.

IDEFK.