Was just watching a reaction to Revenged Love and wrote this rant, so I thought I'd post it here if it's interesting:
Regarding the point about Wu Suowei and Chi Cheng thinking that the leads still needed to discuss things further after all their misunderstandings to clear things up through conversation, I have a different take on the writing for the episodes (15-20), let me know what you think: given that this series likes to portray its characters as having a heightened awareness, and constant strategy to what they do, there’s this repeated idea throughout the show that even if you know something, and trust someone, they still get hurt by what they see or hear, so there’s an interesting conflict between the characters’ conscious rationalisation and conscious emotional response. What’s even more interesting is how the series shows that the characters are acutely aware of this internal conflict, of their own emotions and those of others, and actively implemented that knowledge into their plans, almost as though the show is also making a point about human psychology, and how to effectively approach events in which the ’irrationality’ of human nature comes into play.
An example of this is Chengyu’s method of dispersing any remaining doubts in Chi Cheng about not having slept with Wang Shuo. Chengyu doesn’t have any concrete proof other than his own words to claim it didn’t happen. So instead, he sets out this long plan to expose Wang Shuo. He remains near Chi Cheng during those six years, because leaving would be a sign of his guilt in Chi Cheng’s eyes. In doing so, he’s showing he has nothing to hide, he’s also subtly alerting Chi Cheng that he’s been framed (because the series keep emphasising the idea that the characters pick up on things and realise things by understanding other characters and seeing if their behaviour ’adds up’ in the wider frame of the circumstances to re-evaluate what they previously concluded), and most importantly perhaps, what Chengyu is truly assuaging is the human doubt (of Chi Cheng’s) that comes from our innate skepticism as humans, especially when we feel betrayed.
Chengyu is kind of ’proving’ and relieving Chi Cheng of this slowly over time, by not saying things like ”I didn’t do it’, which could lead to further doubt (emotionally for Chi Cheng). By not saying anything, only leaving clues with these actions, Chengyu is allowing Chi Cheng to make his own conclusions, and not force it, patiently waiting for his chance to lure Wang Shuo to expose himself. Which is exactly what happens, in episode 17 when Chengyu and Wang Shuo talk, CG lures Wang Shuo to admit it by making Wang Shuo think that CG stayed with Chi Cheng to have a chance with him romantically (once again, this only works because Chengyu is aware that this is Wang Shuo’s insecurity and not rooted in truth), and Wang Shuo unintentionally admits it. (Do I think that direct communication is the healthiest and extremely important? Definitely, and ideally, it’s how people should confront things, but I think that what the series is doing with the story is to portray human conscience as an intricate web that one scheme throughs - not necessarily as a negatives thing - in every aspect of our interactions, because the emotional layers of our experiences must be addressed with delicate awareness, and take into account that there’s more to it than using logic to persuade).
In the context of Wu Suowei and Chi Cheng’s ’misunderstandings’, I really believe that both Wu Suowei and Chi Cheng knew or sensed the truth of what was going on. For example, even as WSW ’thought’ that CC was going to the hospital to see Wang Shuo, I genuinely believe that it’s more in the sense of : consciously, he’s smart enough to know that there is more than meets the eye, yet emotionally it still affects him. Same with the kiss, I don’t see it WSW truly believing that Chi Cheng cheated on him, he knows there’s more to what he sees, but he has a breakdown because it’s triggering his deepest fears and insecurities, and hurting him regardless especially as he himself knows that there’s a missing piece of information he’s lacking, but he doesn’t know what it is, so he’s in even more despair. Same thing with Chi Cheng hearing the ‘truth’ about the plan from WSW. He knows that WSW’s act of seeming like he did it all for money and to get back with Yue Yue, that the idea that “he doesn’t love him”, isn’t true, but it still hurts him, and ‘the break up’ is both part of the plan to unravel all the things involved with all parties that are scheming and a reflection of that pain. But as you see in episode 19, Chi Cheng himself doesn’t really treat this as a break-up and more like the time apart they have to have until everything settles, and that’s why when Chengyu says “what’s the big deal, is it worth it (aka the plan to stay apart)?” then Chi Cheng answers: “If JXC told you he never loved you, how would you feel?”. The implication here in my view, is more so that it's about the pain of hearing someone you love say that, even if you know they didn’t mean it, rather than because you actually believe they mean it.
That’s why in episode 19, both WSW and CC’s reactions are more ‘tame’ whilst they’re separated, because they’re focusing on figuring out all the schemes around them so that they can finally be together as they resolve and find the causes/proof/method of exposing external intruders they need. With Wu Suowei, you see this with how in episode 19, he talks with JXC about someone instigating Yue Yue’s appearances, instead of being portrayed as totally heartbroken (which would be more reserved for a reaction in which he truly believed Chi Cheng would never be with him again - which is not the case here). So when Wu Suowei gets the call about his mum, finds out about the situation and it’s shown that he knows that that what Chi Cheng was up to, it’s heavily implied that WSW has already put all the pieces together regarding the “cheating”,and that that’s cleared up. Same with Chi Cheng, he already knows Wu Suowei loves him, and CC himself said he doesn’t care about the deceit, he just cares about Wu Suowei’s sincerity in his feelings for him, so their temporary physical separation is for the ‘greater plan’, it’s for him to be 'with his feelings' from the pain of essentially beind told they don't love you aka not hearing what he was hoping (even if he knows WSW’s intent), and partially also because it’s a way of getting back at WSW for a while before he goes back to him, which is why when they reunite in episode 20, Chi Cheng says that the time apart was only ‘how long he could bear to be apart from him’, and is also the reason why he starts off with saying cruel things as a petty and very temporary ‘revenge’ (more like harsh teasing really- which WSW senses too), before he caves in and finally softens, is direct with him, and showers him with love. In other words, that’s my view as to why ‘further discussion’ shown on screen between the leads is not necessary in my view, because the series has conveyed through many actions that the characters have actually (in this kind of symbolic and indirect manner) realised the misunderstandings and communicated their true intentions already(for instance, Chi Cheng knows that Wu Suowei was able to figure out why CC couldn’t be upfront about his absences once WSW learned about his mother’s condition), kind of like bread crumbs that you follow to find someone who’s been kidnapped to understand their message/the truth of their situation (if you know the tale I’m referring to). This is something the show also wants us to know and so it’s reiterated through the scene between JXC and Guy Chengyu later in episode 20, after everything occurred, when Jiang Xiao Shuai inquires about why Chengyu went to such lengths, he says: “If it’s not revealed, it would have been a ticking time bomb….They’re both smart people. Anger is temporary. Given time, slowly, they’ll understand”, which I feel really reflects the thoughts above. Would love to know if anyone agrees/any other thoughts ^^
But you are 😭 not new to BL right? He expressed himself that it's a psychological reason and he meant during…
Thank you, I'm really pleased to know your reaction and that it was an enjoyable read! ^^ I think one of the things that makes Revenged Love so refreshing and memorable for so many people (regardless of how it's interpreted) is that it really faces societal norms head on, without shying away from them or simply contradicting them, they full on toy with them by using absurdity, and therefore reveal their flaws and yet transcend them without ignoring their grasp on how people live day-to-day, which I think a lot of media is more prone to avoid, by either conforming to those norms with some exceptions or by challenging the norms but through the means of having characters that simply already are non-heteronormative (perhaps they're queer or think differently or both) but minimally engage with the norms themselves directly (it's another method of subverting norms which is what I very much love in series too but it's thus different to what Revenged Love does too). Ps: also happy to get your friend request, would love to talk more☆
But you are 😭 not new to BL right? He expressed himself that it's a psychological reason and he meant during…
Hi! Sorry for interjecting but I got really invested in your debate and noticed that there was a point that I really wanted to address, let me know your thoughts: from what I understand, the issue that you have with the relationship is the idea that Wu Suowei is the one being ‘forced’ into a gender role of being the submissive one in the relationship and that therefore it creates a power imbalance with Chi Cheng because CC insists on control through it? To answer, from my point of view, Wu Suowei only actually wishes to "top" Chi Cheng, especially at the beginning, because of Wu Suowei's own pride and him wanting to "retain" his so-called straightness and power. The reason why it's portrayed as comedic is because the series is actually making fun of this kind of outdated thinking, where "topping" = power/masculinity/straightness. So Wu Suowei insisting on being the top throughout the series is because of him amusingly still thinking in this way. This is why, when Wu Suowei is starting to have feelings for Chi Cheng, he tries to stay in denial of it, and when he has to admit to himself that he does have feelings for Chi Cheng (because WSW is so self-aware), then his problem becomes "having to bottom". This is the reason why: if you look into some psychology articles about this, what is very common for queer people when they are trying to understand their sexuality, is that they may be able to accept the romantic feelings that they have, but going through with the sexual act, which makes it feel more real, can be even more difficult to accept, especially when it comes to bottoming. This is because society has ingrained the idea that masculinity is inherently linked to taking on the « dominant role » which is stereotypically associated with topping in bed. This is even the case for people who prefer to bottom but who are still accepting their sexuality, and can go through an identity crisis when it comes to having sex as a bottom, because taking this position is contradicting what society has (wrongfully) taught them that they are as ‘men’. So the series is intentionally showing Wu Suowei's acceptance of his sexuality in relation to his reluctance to bottoming.
So it’s actually the opposite of what you’re fearing: the series is creating satire out of this by showing Wu Suowei’s evolution regarding his acceptance of his identity as a queer man. So from episode 9 to 12ish, the main struggle that Wu Suowei overcomes is his need to cling onto his false ‘straight identity’, he comes to terms with the fact that 1. He does have feelings for Chi Cheng, and 2. That being the bottom doesn’t mean that he is less of a man, or not an equal to Chi Cheng, which is why when Chi Cheng and Wu Suowei have sex for the first time which is at the end of episode 11 and continues at the beginning of episode 12, we are seeing Wu Suowei being brave enough to be free from these societal misconceptions. It then remains as a long-running joke in the series, about Wu Suowei ‘wanting’ to top, because the series is making fun of the idea, that even if you know that a norm is wrong in society, it’s hard to let go of things like heteronormative pride, and I honestly believe that Wu Suowei himself uses it in a consciously satirical manner, because when Chi Cheng and him have that conversation that is initially mentioned in this thread (the bathtub scene), it’s quite clear that Wu Suowei is poking fun at Chi Cheng and riling him up. The evidence for this is how the conversation even happened in the first place: Wu Suowei brings up the fact that Chi Cheng couldn’t figure out the codes that Wu Suowei was sending when he was kidnapped. Chi Cheng admits he couldn’t figure it out (which is steretypically associated with false ideas about how a top has to be more "capable"). Then Wu Suowei playfully says: « So it seems that this household still needs me to be in charge. » Chi Cheng replies: « You have the final say » (admitting this). Then Wu Suowei says whilst smirking: « Then it’s settled. From now on, you’'ll be the bottom » (reflecying WSW's awareness of this kind of societal norm). So Wu Suowei is clearly making fun of this and is teasing Chi Cheng lol and Chi cheng teases him right back, and it is why the scene ends with Wu Suowei saying « You’re such a bullshitting bastard (jokingly) ». Wu Suowei is also content in their sexual dynamic, and that’s reflected in all the episodes after episode 12 (because before episode 12, everything Wu Suowei was reluctant about was due to my prior explanation), and the scenes after ep 12 where WSW mentions topping Chi Cheng is as a way to tease each other and a reflection of what the series is trying to parody: social norms.
What this means is that the series is, through satire, also trying to debunk the idea that a bottom should be associated with qualities such as submissiveness, having less power, and not being an equal to a top. So yes, Wu Suowei is a bottom and Chi Cheng a top, but the series is intentionally communicating that doesn’t mean they’re not equals, that people shouldn’t associate such traits with people based on their position in bed (countering the way that other series sometimes do this). Instead, what makes people equals is the nature of their relationship, which can be determined by the way the physical aspect of the relationship is portrayed and the way the emotional aspect of the relationship is portrayed. In Revenged Love, I discussed the way that the physical relationship is explored in a way that destigmatises/satirises what being a bottom means, and that WSW's previous views on topping/bottoming had everything to do with his struggle to accept his bisexuality/queerness, which is why they are now content and can make light of it (through jokes). So then what of the emotional aspect of the relationship? WSW and CC are depicted as equals through the fact that they both understand each others’ intentions even if they can’t see through the details of each scheme, because they trust each other and have a strong foundation as a couple. Even when they are separated physically due to other circumstances, they know what the other person means, even if their words are saying different things to what they are feeling. And when they are together, they are loving, and care about each other’s dreams, livelihoods, and identity. In my opinion, the fact that they are both portrayed as being capable, and knowledgeable in terms of schemes is a way of communicating to the viewer that as characters, they are written as equals both as people and as a couple.
In fact, to support this, when Chi Cheng is released and that WSW and CC have a conversation on the bed, Chi Cheng thanks WSW. Then WSW mentions that he needn’t thank him, because they are a couple (and CC knows what WSW is getting at, which again shows their mutual understanding but still wants to express gratitude). The idea of the couple as expressed in this scene is once again explicitly conveying their status as equals in the series. A couple, as Wu Suowei implies in the scene, is two people who are there for each other in equal measure, there isn’t one overpowering the other, or providing more (for example, heteronormativity in society reflects the stereotypical idea that ‘men are providers’ and women are not, which reflects a common power imbalance in relationships). So WSW and CC are depicted in the scenes as already operating on the basis that they can do as much as the other for each other, because they are portrayed as equals. Which is why when Wu Suowei explains this, Chi Cheng no longer insists on saying thank you and they start teasing each other as the affectionate pair that they are. So that’s the way I see it and I’m curious as to if you’d be more inclined to agree with this or if you still have another view. If anyone has read this far, thank you for the time and I’d love to hear anyone’s opinions on this
But you are 😭 not new to BL right? He expressed himself that it's a psychological reason and he meant during…
Was just reading through this whole thread and this comment of yours in particular stands out, everything is so well put and explained (love to see all your other comments too, I too keep on coming back to this page. I just wanted to add another comment to respond to the other person, so feel free to look/answer it if it's of interest to you cause I'd love to hear your thoughts too)
(Just sharing a rant again) I find it really compelling that the series doesn’t portray scheming as inherently bad but as something neutral, with elements of deceit, sincerity or a mixture.
Just like how Chi Cheng explains his own definition of scheming where he differentiates it from purely lying. I was thinking about how typically a lot of other series will depict scheming as an ulterior motive that the protagonist tries to achieve out of necessity and typically involving a third party. For instance, in Unintentional Love Story (which I really like), the protagonist approaches his love interest because he recently lost his job, and if he can get his love interest (a ceramic artist) to collaborate with his company, he’s been promised that he would get his job back. The scheming is almost a parallel story to the ongoing romance, and ceases after the scheming is found out and forgiven.
Another common depiction of scheming is when a character doesn’t really take the scheming seriously, and it’s more of a playful ’response’ to the other character. In Love In The Air for example (which I also really like), Rain initially wants to ’get back’ at Payu but it’s more of an impulsive thought he goes along with, and which transforms into an open commitment to Payu to date him within the first two episodes. Likewise, the scheming on Rain’s end stops afterwards, it’s more so Payu who is one sidedly scheming in a teasing manner, which also sort of fades or remains playful teasing as his relationship becomes official with Rain.
In Revenged Love, all the characters scheme and have their individual methods and awareness of the scheming of other characters, the scheming is also defined by a more precise and calculated intent. To me, the series is thus commenting on how scheming is an essential aspect of human relationships and human identity, and not simply an act of villainy, necessity or a character quirk (which I would say is the case for Payu). I find Dabao’s scheming particularly touching because it intertwines and reflects his considerateness towards others. I really want to highlight the word ’considerate’, because it’s a key part of his characterisation. Given Wu Suowei’s cleverness in his scheming, we know that Wu Suowei being mistreated by his ex-girlfriend and former boss wasn’t due to his lack of awareness of the mistreatment or even of their intentions, but rather a result of his considerateness. Afterall, to be considerate, one has to consider other people’s feelings and circumstances. When one is considerate, there is a common tendency to put other’s needs over one’s own (not to say that one should have to to be considerate, just that I think people who are considerate seem to often do so). This is because, being considerate often involves believing that people have their own reasons, or even that you are the one in the wrong and need to make up for it (even if you truly aren’t in the wrong, just like in Wu Suowei’s case).
As such, when Wu Suowei finally breaks up with Yue Yue and loses his job, he is no longer willing to put up with being disparaged and looked down on. I find it really interesting that this transition is signalled by a scheme. As though scheming was a way to be more in tune with his own feelings, wants, desires and relation towards others, and a way for his considerateness to be exacted in a way that doesn’t put himself down but rather reflects his own agency as a person. The thing with scheming in many series is that it’s often done by one character onto another in a way that can partially or even sometimes completely dehumanise the other person, making them lose their sense of agency. However, in Revenged Love, because all of the characters scheme and are aware of it (even if not all of the details), they are equals, and all are depicted with agency. It intruigues me then that the series places a lot of emphasis on the idea that the scheming in the series isn’t the same as a puppeteer controlling puppets with reactions that he can always predict and use. Scheming is a form of dialogue, where the characters are three dimensional and will break out of the ways they are being used (even if without any ill-intent) in schemes. One of my favourite scenes of this so far is in the scene where Wu Suowei prepares to tell Chi Cheng his whole plan, and that his ex-girlfriend was Yue Yue. He anticipates Chi Cheng’s reactions step by step, and it’s an endearingly comedic moment (once again, not a purely negative association in the scheming) because it shows how well he can mimic Chi Cheng and how brilliant the plan is to allow them to address and resolve the issue by using the opportunity of mentioning Chi Cheng’s most recent scheme. Chi Cheng then doesn’t try to justify himself and instead apologises, which completely flips Wu Suowei’s plan on its head, as he transcends the scheme, showing how even with the scheming they remain full-fledged as people and indeed retain their agency.
I find it even more interesting that there is a dual scheme going on: it's heavily implied that Chi Cheng has his own subtle scheme (even if I think Chi Cheng was ready to admit his wrong due to guilt, but still) to distract Wu Suowei with the food and new clothes to prevent conflict, but these only work momentarily. Wu Suowei insists on bringing up the topic afterall, breaking out of a role where he's a puppet in a scheme, but rather a person with intentions interacting with others with intentions, without it necessarily being seen as an inherently dishonest/bad aspect of the characters. That's why when Wang Shuo appears, I find it touching how Wu Suowei reacts to the situation. He addresses it first-hand instead of pretending to be oblivious, and it feels as though Wu Suowei's new "scheme" is showing his ways of handling a situation to ensure that he can reach a certain wish/goal but without imposing his own feelings onto the situation to neglect the other. It's a way to be sincere to his feelings and sincere to Chi cheng's. Instead of forcefully clinging to Chi Cheng or inserting demands or distance himself emotionally, his method is to actually give Chi Cheng, who is conflicted, space for his own feelings and even encourages him to meet up with Wang Shuo without hostile pettiness or even sarcasm.
It shows his considerateness towards Chi Cheng in preparing the situation so that their relationship suffers the least as possible from this, with the intent to ultimately hope and have Chi Cheng find closure and have their relationship continue as usual.
The series explores every character's scheming as forms of revelation towards themselves and others, allowing them to understand each other more profoundly.
[Hope this makes sense / was interesting and thank you to anyone who read this far ^^]
If it soothes anyone, I think it's actually a good sign that the official production company/staff are being silent right now, and most likely won't say anything beforehand so that when Monday comes, they can release the episodes as usual, but without causing a bigger stir in the meantime
I was just thinking about Revenged Love (again) since I like thinking about why the series is having such a hold on people as of late. And whilst I’ve come up with multiple other reasons (that I won’t be going into this time), I was thinking about it from the angle of Chi Cheng’s characterisation, in relation to how the series is portraying the blurriness of consent uniquely, this time in how it ties into what people find refreshing about the story.
As we’ve discussed before, Chi Cheng is clearly a morally grey character who is meant to be seen as such (in my view), and who could be considered to sexual harass/forces some physical touch on Wu Suowei in certain scenes, even if there is nuance. This is just a reflection, and not something to justify any morally wrongful actions with (particularly a sensitive and important issue like consent), but I find it interesting that it brings something humane to the series. A human aspect that is typically avoided or straight up erased from a lot of media nowadays, and if it’s not, it’s typically either done in one of two ways: it vulgarly romanticises/normalises SA or shows the reality of the violence and trauma it brings.
In Revenged Love, there is something unusual going on, and if I had to put words to it, I think it’s partially due to the acknowledged moral ambiguity of the narrative, and also the emphasis on the uniqueness of individual expression in human relationships, which means that a character’s actions should be judged by: its specific context, the intentions of the specific characters, and their way of understanding and communicating with each other (so no longer purely associating a moral label by how things look on the surface, and more by what they mean in the represented relationship, which I also touched on in a previous comment). I personally believe that viewers of any kind of media actually subconsciously and also at times consciously sense these meanings (even if everyone will have their own interpretation), but therefore, when a collective has a strong reaction, and a majority feel a certain way, to me it reflects something the series purposefully does (in this case a lot of people describing the feeling of finding Revenged Love as literally making them feel ‘revived’ or enthralled by the series in a way they haven’t in a long time).
It’s the result of a myriad of details in the subtext of the series that comes together to create that feeling, and therefore, identifying what exactly is the cause of those feelings, aka what the series is doing, leads us to realise even more about how other media might repress or avoid, or exclude/include certain things that we don’t notice. That is, until we come across a story like this one, that lets us see how we are affected by the a lot of media’s ‘avoidance of immorality’. Which can, without us realising it, cause a disconnect or feeling of passiveness when we watch other shows because of the other parts of the show that are pleasant. Yet it therefore blocks the experience of the viewer in other ways, because, as humans, we are inevitably multifaceted and therefore in some ways, immoral, so it leaves a vital part of our humanity unaddressed.
So with Chi Cheng, I had the sudden thought that the reason why his forcefulness and insistence on sexual interactions neither feels offputting (or if it does, it’s part of the moral complexity of his character) nor as though it’s romanticising it truly either, is because…it’s frantic. Simply put, Chi Cheng’s lust is honest. All of Chi Cheng’s actions pretty much reflect his unfiltered desire for sex, and as the episodes develop, it becomes his desire for Wu Suowei as a person, which he neither hides nor uses to neglect Wu Suowei’s feelings. It’s something for Wu Suowei to answer to. Not just a one way street. It communicates something, which requires mutual interlocutors. A lot of media normalises SA as something that is ‘natural’ for a character to do or negates the other character’s feelings. And there’s something interesting about how an uneven dynamic in a relationship with aspects of SA tend to be characterised by deceit. That’s why a lot of stories that don’t even have a lack of consent sexually, feel somehow similarly dishonest and imbalanced because the characters, for example,might not have the same level of awareness and therefore agency to be on the same level. One quick example is Cutie Pie, where the relationship feels unequal even though it appears to abide by conventional moral principles on the surface, as Hia Lian knows everything and even makes decision for the both of them on his own whilst the protagonist remains unaware. And again on the surface, it can come across as adorable because Hia Lian is just trying to protect the person he loves, but the approach of the series renders Kuea into a character who is unable to be part of the relationship as an equal (and interestingly this kind of writing is the most common in straight couples as it’s often dictated by gender roles).
In Revenged Love, the bold interactions between the characters don’t follow a conventional and perfect moral frame. Instead, here, it becomes a conversation about Chi Cheng and Wu Suowei’s boundaries, which is the literal main plot line at present (which to me shows that it’s neither romanticising = pretending nothing’s wrong, nor categorising it in a black-and-white moral box). The human aspect comes in with the fact that since it does become a metaphorical ‘conversation’, the characters are playing within that conversation, just like them playing with each other on a basketball court. There are general rules in formal basketball, but for their personal relationship, they inspect the rules, break the rules, play with the rules, and go over them again to come with agreed upon rules (through their understanding of each other and unconventional way of communicating their boundaries). But I think what a lot of media struggles to acknowledge, becomes it inevitably dabbles in morally grey territory as well, is that, as humans, we also find emotional intimacy in the flexibility of those rules.
Of course there are limits to what ‘lines not to cross’ for full-fledged characters you could argue, but the humane aspect about it is experimenting with each other’s boundaries with respect to the other person’s wellbeing. And in my opinion, that is something that the series really explores through Chi Cheng and Wu Suowei really well. For instance, with the scene in EP10 where Chi Cheng asks Wu Suowei directly if he really does not want to sleep with him, and Suowei says ‘no/it’s not that’, reflecting the core of their relationship as equals (which is marked by the fact that there’s a mutual awareness and understanding of each other, and that Chi Cheng cares about Wu Suowei’s agency).
It means there will be morally questionable aspects that can be difficult to interpret, but it also means that there’s something that feels truthful, endearing and human about their relationship, that I believe is one of the reasons why the series is getting such an intense following. People feel that the story is not immobilised by a sense of ‘stiffness’ or ‘restraint’ in character interactions, because the characters are actually delving bluntly into verbal and physical behaviours (here i don’t necessarily mean sexual/romantic) that are based on raw feelings or thoughts, not held back by a polished template for morality. So it feels less like watching Trope 1 and Trope 2 interact, and more like watching Chi Cheng and Wu Suowei (the individuals) interact. They affect one another, they have fears, desires, ulterior motives, schemes, sincerity and affection that can be expressed in their own way, which might lead to a mistake in judgement or in testing one another’s lines.
Especially the dialogue really plays with heteronormative thinking by introducing it plainly and directly, and then breaking it apart in the most unexpected ways (ex; the very premise itself -> heteronormative thinking = Wu Suowei is a guy that had a girlfriend, and who now must earn his pride back vs transcending that norm = Wu Suowei is going to seduce THE GUY to take revenge?? In conclusion = reveals the absurdity and fragility of societal norms within society), which leads to reactions of laughter and/or excitement and investment, because the viewer feels freed by it too.
So yeah, just some thoughts I had which I wanted to express (sorry if it’s quite long-winded), of course my thoughts evolve throughout the show too but what I’ve written is something I do think is true for this series. Thank you to anyone who read this far! Again, I’d be happy to hear anyone’s thoughts as well^^
This is spot on for me. Chi Cheng seems very aware of Wu Suiwei’s identity crisis. it’s honestly very smart…
thank you and for taking the time, and agreed, I'm glad Xiao Shuai is by his side, and I think Wu Suowei knows deep down Chi Cheng wouldn't go through with it but definitely that the reasons behind the threat are real
Just wanted to show the horror-like aspects of the series in a fun way (using Michael Jackson's thriller), to compare the presence of the snakes with the characters' interactions and fears in relation to their desires:
I was just replying to someone about the topic of Chi Cheng's recent actions regarding Wu Suowei's trouble with coming to terms with his sexuality, so I wanted to put it here as a main post out of curiosity about people's opinions (and as someone who loves hearing other people's view and debate) :
I actually think that Chi Cheng is quite aware that Wu Suowei is struggling with this specific aspect of not wanting to go through with sex (as a pyschological blockage), so I personally find that it's not a problem of miscommunication and more so an issue of Wu Suowei's sense of identity causing him a crisis in regards to his sexuality. The reason why I think Chi Cheng knows is because of how he's been subtly trying to address this very issue in a way that doesn't put too much pressure on Wu Suowei to have to respond immediately, whilst still trying to get Wu Suowei to face and resolve the matter. The main things Chi Cheng does is physically probe or patiently wait. Examples of the former is in how he sneakily initiates kisses and touches to see what Wu Suowei is okay with (but ultimately respects Wu Suowei's boundaries -> we see this in the kiss scene in ep 10 where Wu Suowei's change of tone in his voice indicates when he is serious or just panicked, which signals to Chi Cheng how far he can go).
Examples of the latter are in the many scenes in which Chi Cheng doesn't initiate anything sexual so that Wu Suowei can feel at ease, in order to be able to just affectionately be around each other without having to discuss the topic of having sex. This is prominent in the last few episodes in scenes such as when Wu Suowei misses Chi Cheng and touches himself, and then Chi Cheng arrives, sees him, and just lays beside him without doing anything else (even gives a verbal affirmation, which allows Wu Suowei to relax, and we see Wu Suowei stare at Chi Cheng lovingly as CC sleeps).
Another thing that Chi Cheng does in the most recent episode is verbally address the matter directly, where he says : "so you really don't want to sleep with me?" and Wu Suowei answers "no", leading Chi Cheng to then ask "then, what is it?", showing that actually Wu Suowei is not against sleeping with Chi Cheng in the sense of it being a form of intimacy between them, but is still unable to go through it at present because of what the action would mean for his identity and for his future.
So I think that this is also a reflection about how close and vulnerable they have gotten with each other, and how it manifests in these kinds of 'silent' conversations with each other, where they might not be directly saying anything about a matter, but they're still communicating their feelings in a different way and understanding each other through those indirect messages. It's just that as Wu Suowei's conflictedness won't go away, even with his own self-awareness, I think Chi Cheng is (semi-jokingly) trying to find other ways to try and get Wu Suowei to react. So that Wu Suowei may find a way to overcome his fear, or for him to really understand/come to terms with what is blocking him (and because Chi Cheng is a bit viciously playful too).
I love this series with my whole heart - but I’m a little annoyed by the turn it has taken. I winced when CC…
I actually think that Chi Cheng is quite aware that Wu Suowei is struggling with this specific aspect, so I personally find that it's not a problem of miscommunication and more so an issue of Wu Suowei's sense of identity causing him a crisis in regards to his sexuality. The reason why I think Chi Cheng knows is because of how he's been subtly trying to address this very issue in a way that doesn't put too much pressure on Wu Suowei to have to respond immediately, whilst still trying to get to face and resolve the matter. The main things Chi Cheng does is physically probe or patiently wait. Examples of the former is in how he sneakily initiates kisses and touches to see what Wu Suowei is okay with (but ultimately respects Wu Suowei's boundaries -> we see this in the kiss scene in ep 10 where Wu Suowei's change of tone in his voice indicates when he is serious or just panicked, which signals to Chi Cheng how far he can go). Examples of the latter are in the many scenes in which Chi Cheng doesn't initiate anything sexual so that Wu Suowei can feel at ease, in order to be able to just affectionately be around each other without having to discuss the topic of having sex. This is prominent in the last few episodes in scenes such as when Wu Suowei misses Chi Cheng and touches himself, and then Chi Cheng arrives, sees him, and just lays beside him without doing anything else (even gives a verbal affirmation, which allows Wu Suowei to relax, and we see Wu Suowei stare at Chi Cheng lovingly as CC sleeps). Another thing that Chi Cheng does in the most recent episode is verbally address the matter directly, where he says : "so you really don't want to sleep with me?" and Wu Suowei answers "no", showing that actually Wu Suowei is not against sleeping with Chi Cheng in the sense of it being a form of intimacy between them, but is still unable to go through it at present because of what the action would mean for his identity and for his future. So I think that, as you mention, they have gotten really close and vulnerable with each other, and this includes their 'silent' conversations with each other about this kind of topic, where they might not be directly saying anything about it but they're still communicating in a different way and understanding each other in that sense. It's just that Wu Suowei's conflictedness won't go away, even with his own self-awareness, and I think that's why Chi Cheng is (semi-jokingly) trying to find other ways to try and get Wu Suowei to really find a way out of his fear, or for him to really understannd/come to terms with what is blocking him
Another great, long but easy read from Liltsu! May I start by saying that I appreciate you for basically speaking…
Thank you I'm so happy to have received any kind of response but especially receiving comments as thoughtful and insightful as yours! I agree, I think it's really important that stories don't have to have characters that perfectly apply ideal moral standards, and also explore a unique dynamic between individuals. I also think that there's value in debating about how things are represented and why. With characters like Wu Suowei and Chi Cheng, what's so refreshing and meaningful in this story (and on my view, one of the reasons why I think this series has kind of revived people's interest in BL/made people so invested in this series in a way I haven't seen in a while) is due to how it actually allows the characters to explore each other's boundaries. A lot of characters behave within a pre-determined set of values and norms that don't really relate to their personal relationship with the other character, but simply follow a line of logic that doesn't 'cross the moral line' for viewers. But the issue is that, as humans, we develop intimate and vulnerable connections with people when we are as we are: morally complex, ambiguous, and flawed. This also includes positive flaws and can draw positive outcomes because it is through a spectrum of good, bad, and everything in between, that we feel close to others. This includes the relationship between character and viewer. Revenged Love doesn't try to evade or erase those conflicting norms or controversial aspects of life, it addresses and faces norms (even prejudiced ones) to then be able to transcend them, and that creates the feeling of excitement in the relationship coming across as 'real' or 'vivid' to the viewer. It feels like watching detailed characters rather than tropes, in a bl series. One fairly simple example is in Wu Suowei's reaction to Jiang Xiao Shuai's sexuality as a gay man. Wu Suowei is first shocked and kind of jokingly evades his touch when he immediately finds out, which reflects a form of internalised homophobia. But in the next scene of them together, Wu Suowei is comfortably walking around half-naked, oblivious to Jiang Xiao Shuai's amusement, and when Jiang Xiao Shuaiiang hints at it, Wu Suowei nonchalantly remembers "Oh, that's right, forgot you liked men", completely unbothered and clearly accepting of Jiang Xiao Shuai's sexuality, whilst their friendship is as close as it's ever been. I think that the detail of his first reaction is an acknowledgement of the reality that straightness is societally treated as the default due to heteronormativity, and therefore that affects queer people/the way that queer people are treated or how they come out to others (even though the scene itself is literally comedic, it's a way of acknowledging it). Yet Wu Suowei's quick nonchalance reflects the way the series is conveying that there's nothing wrong with queerness, as well as Wu Suowei's characteristics as a person who is open and thinks critically (the idea that we all have internalised prejudice in some ways due to societal norms, but the difference is in how we then choose to think consciously, and how that changes through exposure). Not entirely satisfied with how I worded this but hopefully it makes sense or is interesting in any way. I'm really excited for the next eps, and thank you again
thats was amazing thoughts. as someone who has watched both revenged love and the beautiful man i would subject…
thank you, I really appreciate it and I'm happy to get your thoughts! Regarding all the elements you mentioned, I see what you mean and mostly agree. I think that's where the aspect of the characters being morally ambiguous comes in, and that their behaviours and actions are meant to be considered questionable at times or don't fit a normative standard of good or bad. We get to see their journey as people who go through moral changes and affect each other, just like you mentioned. I personally also like to think of the series itself as playing with norms, and that the series maybe is in some way, satirical about certain tropes too
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Regarding the point about Wu Suowei and Chi Cheng thinking that the leads still needed to discuss things further after all their misunderstandings to clear things up through conversation, I have a different take on the writing for the episodes (15-20), let me know what you think: given that this series likes to portray its characters as having a heightened awareness, and constant strategy to what they do, there’s this repeated idea throughout the show that even if you know something, and trust someone, they still get hurt by what they see or hear, so there’s an interesting conflict between the characters’ conscious rationalisation and conscious emotional response. What’s even more interesting is how the series shows that the characters are acutely aware of this internal conflict, of their own emotions and those of others, and actively implemented that knowledge into their plans, almost as though the show is also making a point about human psychology, and how to effectively approach events in which the ’irrationality’ of human nature comes into play.
An example of this is Chengyu’s method of dispersing any remaining doubts in Chi Cheng about not having slept with Wang Shuo. Chengyu doesn’t have any concrete proof other than his own words to claim it didn’t happen. So instead, he sets out this long plan to expose Wang Shuo. He remains near Chi Cheng during those six years, because leaving would be a sign of his guilt in Chi Cheng’s eyes. In doing so, he’s showing he has nothing to hide, he’s also subtly alerting Chi Cheng that he’s been framed (because the series keep emphasising the idea that the characters pick up on things and realise things by understanding other characters and seeing if their behaviour ’adds up’ in the wider frame of the circumstances to re-evaluate what they previously concluded), and most importantly perhaps, what Chengyu is truly assuaging is the human doubt (of Chi Cheng’s) that comes from our innate skepticism as humans, especially when we feel betrayed.
Chengyu is kind of ’proving’ and relieving Chi Cheng of this slowly over time, by not saying things like ”I didn’t do it’, which could lead to further doubt (emotionally for Chi Cheng). By not saying anything, only leaving clues with these actions, Chengyu is allowing Chi Cheng to make his own conclusions, and not force it, patiently waiting for his chance to lure Wang Shuo to expose himself. Which is exactly what happens, in episode 17 when Chengyu and Wang Shuo talk, CG lures Wang Shuo to admit it by making Wang Shuo think that CG stayed with Chi Cheng to have a chance with him romantically (once again, this only works because Chengyu is aware that this is Wang Shuo’s insecurity and not rooted in truth), and Wang Shuo unintentionally admits it. (Do I think that direct communication is the healthiest and extremely important? Definitely, and ideally, it’s how people should confront things, but I think that what the series is doing with the story is to portray human conscience as an intricate web that one scheme throughs - not necessarily as a negatives thing - in every aspect of our interactions, because the emotional layers of our experiences must be addressed with delicate awareness, and take into account that there’s more to it than using logic to persuade).
In the context of Wu Suowei and Chi Cheng’s ’misunderstandings’, I really believe that both Wu Suowei and Chi Cheng knew or sensed the truth of what was going on. For example, even as WSW ’thought’ that CC was going to the hospital to see Wang Shuo, I genuinely believe that it’s more in the sense of : consciously, he’s smart enough to know that there is more than meets the eye, yet emotionally it still affects him. Same with the kiss, I don’t see it WSW truly believing that Chi Cheng cheated on him, he knows there’s more to what he sees, but he has a breakdown because it’s triggering his deepest fears and insecurities, and hurting him regardless especially as he himself knows that there’s a missing piece of information he’s lacking, but he doesn’t know what it is, so he’s in even more despair. Same thing with Chi Cheng hearing the ‘truth’ about the plan from WSW. He knows that WSW’s act of seeming like he did it all for money and to get back with Yue Yue, that the idea that “he doesn’t love him”, isn’t true, but it still hurts him, and ‘the break up’ is both part of the plan to unravel all the things involved with all parties that are scheming and a reflection of that pain. But as you see in episode 19, Chi Cheng himself doesn’t really treat this as a break-up and more like the time apart they have to have until everything settles, and that’s why when Chengyu says “what’s the big deal, is it worth it (aka the plan to stay apart)?” then Chi Cheng answers: “If JXC told you he never loved you, how would you feel?”. The implication here in my view, is more so that it's about the pain of hearing someone you love say that, even if you know they didn’t mean it, rather than because you actually believe they mean it.
That’s why in episode 19, both WSW and CC’s reactions are more ‘tame’ whilst they’re separated, because they’re focusing on figuring out all the schemes around them so that they can finally be together as they resolve and find the causes/proof/method of exposing external intruders they need. With Wu Suowei, you see this with how in episode 19, he talks with JXC about someone instigating Yue Yue’s appearances, instead of being portrayed as totally heartbroken (which would be more reserved for a reaction in which he truly believed Chi Cheng would never be with him again - which is not the case here). So when Wu Suowei gets the call about his mum, finds out about the situation and it’s shown that he knows that that what Chi Cheng was up to, it’s heavily implied that WSW has already put all the pieces together regarding the “cheating”,and that that’s cleared up. Same with Chi Cheng, he already knows Wu Suowei loves him, and CC himself said he doesn’t care about the deceit, he just cares about Wu Suowei’s sincerity in his feelings for him, so their temporary physical separation is for the ‘greater plan’, it’s for him to be 'with his feelings' from the pain of essentially beind told they don't love you aka not hearing what he was hoping (even if he knows WSW’s intent), and partially also because it’s a way of getting back at WSW for a while before he goes back to him, which is why when they reunite in episode 20, Chi Cheng says that the time apart was only ‘how long he could bear to be apart from him’, and is also the reason why he starts off with saying cruel things as a petty and very temporary ‘revenge’ (more like harsh teasing really- which WSW senses too), before he caves in and finally softens, is direct with him, and showers him with love. In other words, that’s my view as to why ‘further discussion’ shown on screen between the leads is not necessary in my view, because the series has conveyed through many actions that the characters have actually (in this kind of symbolic and indirect manner) realised the misunderstandings and communicated their true intentions already(for instance, Chi Cheng knows that Wu Suowei was able to figure out why CC couldn’t be upfront about his absences once WSW learned about his mother’s condition), kind of like bread crumbs that you follow to find someone who’s been kidnapped to understand their message/the truth of their situation (if you know the tale I’m referring to). This is something the show also wants us to know and so it’s reiterated through the scene between JXC and Guy Chengyu later in episode 20, after everything occurred, when Jiang Xiao Shuai inquires about why Chengyu went to such lengths, he says: “If it’s not revealed, it would have been a ticking time bomb….They’re both smart people. Anger is temporary. Given time, slowly, they’ll understand”, which I feel really reflects the thoughts above. Would love to know if anyone agrees/any other thoughts ^^
To answer, from my point of view, Wu Suowei only actually wishes to "top" Chi Cheng, especially at the beginning, because of Wu Suowei's own pride and him wanting to "retain" his so-called straightness and power. The reason why it's portrayed as comedic is because the series is actually making fun of this kind of outdated thinking, where "topping" = power/masculinity/straightness. So Wu Suowei insisting on being the top throughout the series is because of him amusingly still thinking in this way. This is why, when Wu Suowei is starting to have feelings for Chi Cheng, he tries to stay in denial of it, and when he has to admit to himself that he does have feelings for Chi Cheng (because WSW is so self-aware), then his problem becomes "having to bottom". This is the reason why: if you look into some psychology articles about this, what is very common for queer people when they are trying to understand their sexuality, is that they may be able to accept the romantic feelings that they have, but going through with the sexual act, which makes it feel more real, can be even more difficult to accept, especially when it comes to bottoming. This is because society has ingrained the idea that masculinity is inherently linked to taking on the « dominant role » which is stereotypically associated with topping in bed. This is even the case for people who prefer to bottom but who are still accepting their sexuality, and can go through an identity crisis when it comes to having sex as a bottom, because taking this position is contradicting what society has (wrongfully) taught them that they are as ‘men’. So the series is intentionally showing Wu Suowei's acceptance of his sexuality in relation to his reluctance to bottoming.
So it’s actually the opposite of what you’re fearing: the series is creating satire out of this by showing Wu Suowei’s evolution regarding his acceptance of his identity as a queer man. So from episode 9 to 12ish, the main struggle that Wu Suowei overcomes is his need to cling onto his false ‘straight identity’, he comes to terms with the fact that 1. He does have feelings for Chi Cheng, and 2. That being the bottom doesn’t mean that he is less of a man, or not an equal to Chi Cheng, which is why when Chi Cheng and Wu Suowei have sex for the first time which is at the end of episode 11 and continues at the beginning of episode 12, we are seeing Wu Suowei being brave enough to be free from these societal misconceptions. It then remains as a long-running joke in the series, about Wu Suowei ‘wanting’ to top, because the series is making fun of the idea, that even if you know that a norm is wrong in society, it’s hard to let go of things like heteronormative pride, and I honestly believe that Wu Suowei himself uses it in a consciously satirical manner, because when Chi Cheng and him have that conversation that is initially mentioned in this thread (the bathtub scene), it’s quite clear that Wu Suowei is poking fun at Chi Cheng and riling him up. The evidence for this is how the conversation even happened in the first place: Wu Suowei brings up the fact that Chi Cheng couldn’t figure out the codes that Wu Suowei was sending when he was kidnapped. Chi Cheng admits he couldn’t figure it out (which is steretypically associated with false ideas about how a top has to be more "capable"). Then Wu Suowei playfully says: « So it seems that this household still needs me to be in charge. » Chi Cheng replies: « You have the final say » (admitting this). Then Wu Suowei says whilst smirking: « Then it’s settled. From now on, you’'ll be the bottom » (reflecying WSW's awareness of this kind of societal norm). So Wu Suowei is clearly making fun of this and is teasing Chi Cheng lol and Chi cheng teases him right back, and it is why the scene ends with Wu Suowei saying « You’re such a bullshitting bastard (jokingly) ». Wu Suowei is also content in their sexual dynamic, and that’s reflected in all the episodes after episode 12 (because before episode 12, everything Wu Suowei was reluctant about was due to my prior explanation), and the scenes after ep 12 where WSW mentions topping Chi Cheng is as a way to tease each other and a reflection of what the series is trying to parody: social norms.
What this means is that the series is, through satire, also trying to debunk the idea that a bottom should be associated with qualities such as submissiveness, having less power, and not being an equal to a top. So yes, Wu Suowei is a bottom and Chi Cheng a top, but the series is intentionally communicating that doesn’t mean they’re not equals, that people shouldn’t associate such traits with people based on their position in bed (countering the way that other series sometimes do this). Instead, what makes people equals is the nature of their relationship, which can be determined by the way the physical aspect of the relationship is portrayed and the way the emotional aspect of the relationship is portrayed. In Revenged Love, I discussed the way that the physical relationship is explored in a way that destigmatises/satirises what being a bottom means, and that WSW's previous views on topping/bottoming had everything to do with his struggle to accept his bisexuality/queerness, which is why they are now content and can make light of it (through jokes). So then what of the emotional aspect of the relationship? WSW and CC are depicted as equals through the fact that they both understand each others’ intentions even if they can’t see through the details of each scheme, because they trust each other and have a strong foundation as a couple. Even when they are separated physically due to other circumstances, they know what the other person means, even if their words are saying different things to what they are feeling. And when they are together, they are loving, and care about each other’s dreams, livelihoods, and identity. In my opinion, the fact that they are both portrayed as being capable, and knowledgeable in terms of schemes is a way of communicating to the viewer that as characters, they are written as equals both as people and as a couple.
In fact, to support this, when Chi Cheng is released and that WSW and CC have a conversation on the bed, Chi Cheng thanks WSW. Then WSW mentions that he needn’t thank him, because they are a couple (and CC knows what WSW is getting at, which again shows their mutual understanding but still wants to express gratitude). The idea of the couple as expressed in this scene is once again explicitly conveying their status as equals in the series. A couple, as Wu Suowei implies in the scene, is two people who are there for each other in equal measure, there isn’t one overpowering the other, or providing more (for example, heteronormativity in society reflects the stereotypical idea that ‘men are providers’ and women are not, which reflects a common power imbalance in relationships). So WSW and CC are depicted in the scenes as already operating on the basis that they can do as much as the other for each other, because they are portrayed as equals. Which is why when Wu Suowei explains this, Chi Cheng no longer insists on saying thank you and they start teasing each other as the affectionate pair that they are. So that’s the way I see it and I’m curious as to if you’d be more inclined to agree with this or if you still have another view. If anyone has read this far, thank you for the time and I’d love to hear anyone’s opinions on this
I find it really compelling that the series doesn’t portray scheming as inherently bad but as something neutral, with elements of deceit, sincerity or a mixture.
Just like how Chi Cheng explains his own definition of scheming where he differentiates it from purely lying. I was thinking about how typically a lot of other series will depict scheming as an ulterior motive that the protagonist tries to achieve out of necessity and typically involving a third party. For instance, in Unintentional Love Story (which I really like), the protagonist approaches his love interest because he recently lost his job, and if he can get his love interest (a ceramic artist) to collaborate with his company, he’s been promised that he would get his job back. The scheming is almost a parallel story to the ongoing romance, and ceases after the scheming is found out and forgiven.
Another common depiction of scheming is when a character doesn’t really take the scheming seriously, and it’s more of a playful ’response’ to the other character. In Love In The Air for example (which I also really like), Rain initially wants to ’get back’ at Payu but it’s more of an impulsive thought he goes along with, and which transforms into an open commitment to Payu to date him within the first two episodes. Likewise, the scheming on Rain’s end stops afterwards, it’s more so Payu who is one sidedly scheming in a teasing manner, which also sort of fades or remains playful teasing as his relationship becomes official with Rain.
In Revenged Love, all the characters scheme and have their individual methods and awareness of the scheming of other characters, the scheming is also defined by a more precise and calculated intent. To me, the series is thus commenting on how scheming is an essential aspect of human relationships and human identity, and not simply an act of villainy, necessity or a character quirk (which I would say is the case for Payu). I find Dabao’s scheming particularly touching because it intertwines and reflects his considerateness towards others. I really want to highlight the word ’considerate’, because it’s a key part of his characterisation. Given Wu Suowei’s cleverness in his scheming, we know that Wu Suowei being mistreated by his ex-girlfriend and former boss wasn’t due to his lack of awareness of the mistreatment or even of their intentions, but rather a result of his considerateness. Afterall, to be considerate, one has to consider other people’s feelings and circumstances. When one is considerate, there is a common tendency to put other’s needs over one’s own (not to say that one should have to to be considerate, just that I think people who are considerate seem to often do so). This is because, being considerate often involves believing that people have their own reasons, or even that you are the one in the wrong and need to make up for it (even if you truly aren’t in the wrong, just like in Wu Suowei’s case).
As such, when Wu Suowei finally breaks up with Yue Yue and loses his job, he is no longer willing to put up with being disparaged and looked down on. I find it really interesting that this transition is signalled by a scheme. As though scheming was a way to be more in tune with his own feelings, wants, desires and relation towards others, and a way for his considerateness to be exacted in a way that doesn’t put himself down but rather reflects his own agency as a person. The thing with scheming in many series is that it’s often done by one character onto another in a way that can partially or even sometimes completely dehumanise the other person, making them lose their sense of agency. However, in Revenged Love, because all of the characters scheme and are aware of it (even if not all of the details), they are equals, and all are depicted with agency. It intruigues me then that the series places a lot of emphasis on the idea that the scheming in the series isn’t the same as a puppeteer controlling puppets with reactions that he can always predict and use. Scheming is a form of dialogue, where the characters are three dimensional and will break out of the ways they are being used (even if without any ill-intent) in schemes. One of my favourite scenes of this so far is in the scene where Wu Suowei prepares to tell Chi Cheng his whole plan, and that his ex-girlfriend was Yue Yue. He anticipates Chi Cheng’s reactions step by step, and it’s an endearingly comedic moment (once again, not a purely negative association in the scheming) because it shows how well he can mimic Chi Cheng and how brilliant the plan is to allow them to address and resolve the issue by using the opportunity of mentioning Chi Cheng’s most recent scheme. Chi Cheng then doesn’t try to justify himself and instead apologises, which completely flips Wu Suowei’s plan on its head, as he transcends the scheme, showing how even with the scheming they remain full-fledged as people and indeed retain their agency.
I find it even more interesting that there is a dual scheme going on: it's heavily implied that Chi Cheng has his own subtle scheme (even if I think Chi Cheng was ready to admit his wrong due to guilt, but still) to distract Wu Suowei with the food and new clothes to prevent conflict, but these only work momentarily. Wu Suowei insists on bringing up the topic afterall, breaking out of a role where he's a puppet in a scheme, but rather a person with intentions interacting with others with intentions, without it necessarily being seen as an inherently dishonest/bad aspect of the characters. That's why when Wang Shuo appears, I find it touching how Wu Suowei reacts to the situation. He addresses it first-hand instead of pretending to be oblivious, and it feels as though Wu Suowei's new "scheme" is showing his ways of handling a situation to ensure that he can reach a certain wish/goal but without imposing his own feelings onto the situation to neglect the other. It's a way to be sincere to his feelings and sincere to Chi cheng's. Instead of forcefully clinging to Chi Cheng or inserting demands or distance himself emotionally, his method is to actually give Chi Cheng, who is conflicted, space for his own feelings and even encourages him to meet up with Wang Shuo without hostile pettiness or even sarcasm.
It shows his considerateness towards Chi Cheng in preparing the situation so that their relationship suffers the least as possible from this, with the intent to ultimately hope and have Chi Cheng find closure and have their relationship continue as usual.
The series explores every character's scheming as forms of revelation towards themselves and others, allowing them to understand each other more profoundly.
[Hope this makes sense / was interesting and thank you to anyone who read this far ^^]
As we’ve discussed before, Chi Cheng is clearly a morally grey character who is meant to be seen as such (in my view), and who could be considered to sexual harass/forces some physical touch on Wu Suowei in certain scenes, even if there is nuance. This is just a reflection, and not something to justify any morally wrongful actions with (particularly a sensitive and important issue like consent), but I find it interesting that it brings something humane to the series. A human aspect that is typically avoided or straight up erased from a lot of media nowadays, and if it’s not, it’s typically either done in one of two ways: it vulgarly romanticises/normalises SA or shows the reality of the violence and trauma it brings.
In Revenged Love, there is something unusual going on, and if I had to put words to it, I think it’s partially due to the acknowledged moral ambiguity of the narrative, and also the emphasis on the uniqueness of individual expression in human relationships, which means that a character’s actions should be judged by: its specific context, the intentions of the specific characters, and their way of understanding and communicating with each other (so no longer purely associating a moral label by how things look on the surface, and more by what they mean in the represented relationship, which I also touched on in a previous comment). I personally believe that viewers of any kind of media actually subconsciously and also at times consciously sense these meanings (even if everyone will have their own interpretation), but therefore, when a collective has a strong reaction, and a majority feel a certain way, to me it reflects something the series purposefully does (in this case a lot of people describing the feeling of finding Revenged Love as literally making them feel ‘revived’ or enthralled by the series in a way they haven’t in a long time).
It’s the result of a myriad of details in the subtext of the series that comes together to create that feeling, and therefore, identifying what exactly is the cause of those feelings, aka what the series is doing, leads us to realise even more about how other media might repress or avoid, or exclude/include certain things that we don’t notice. That is, until we come across a story like this one, that lets us see how we are affected by the a lot of media’s ‘avoidance of immorality’. Which can, without us realising it, cause a disconnect or feeling of passiveness when we watch other shows because of the other parts of the show that are pleasant. Yet it therefore blocks the experience of the viewer in other ways, because, as humans, we are inevitably multifaceted and therefore in some ways, immoral, so it leaves a vital part of our humanity unaddressed.
So with Chi Cheng, I had the sudden thought that the reason why his forcefulness and insistence on sexual interactions neither feels offputting (or if it does, it’s part of the moral complexity of his character) nor as though it’s romanticising it truly either, is because…it’s frantic. Simply put, Chi Cheng’s lust is honest. All of Chi Cheng’s actions pretty much reflect his unfiltered desire for sex, and as the episodes develop, it becomes his desire for Wu Suowei as a person, which he neither hides nor uses to neglect Wu Suowei’s feelings. It’s something for Wu Suowei to answer to. Not just a one way street. It communicates something, which requires mutual interlocutors. A lot of media normalises SA as something that is ‘natural’ for a character to do or negates the other character’s feelings. And there’s something interesting about how an uneven dynamic in a relationship with aspects of SA tend to be characterised by deceit. That’s why a lot of stories that don’t even have a lack of consent sexually, feel somehow similarly dishonest and imbalanced because the characters, for example,might not have the same level of awareness and therefore agency to be on the same level. One quick example is Cutie Pie, where the relationship feels unequal even though it appears to abide by conventional moral principles on the surface, as Hia Lian knows everything and even makes decision for the both of them on his own whilst the protagonist remains unaware. And again on the surface, it can come across as adorable because Hia Lian is just trying to protect the person he loves, but the approach of the series renders Kuea into a character who is unable to be part of the relationship as an equal (and interestingly this kind of writing is the most common in straight couples as it’s often dictated by gender roles).
In Revenged Love, the bold interactions between the characters don’t follow a conventional and perfect moral frame. Instead, here, it becomes a conversation about Chi Cheng and Wu Suowei’s boundaries, which is the literal main plot line at present (which to me shows that it’s neither romanticising = pretending nothing’s wrong, nor categorising it in a black-and-white moral box). The human aspect comes in with the fact that since it does become a metaphorical ‘conversation’, the characters are playing within that conversation, just like them playing with each other on a basketball court. There are general rules in formal basketball, but for their personal relationship, they inspect the rules, break the rules, play with the rules, and go over them again to come with agreed upon rules (through their understanding of each other and unconventional way of communicating their boundaries). But I think what a lot of media struggles to acknowledge, becomes it inevitably dabbles in morally grey territory as well, is that, as humans, we also find emotional intimacy in the flexibility of those rules.
Of course there are limits to what ‘lines not to cross’ for full-fledged characters you could argue, but the humane aspect about it is experimenting with each other’s boundaries with respect to the other person’s wellbeing. And in my opinion, that is something that the series really explores through Chi Cheng and Wu Suowei really well. For instance, with the scene in EP10 where Chi Cheng asks Wu Suowei directly if he really does not want to sleep with him, and Suowei says ‘no/it’s not that’, reflecting the core of their relationship as equals (which is marked by the fact that there’s a mutual awareness and understanding of each other, and that Chi Cheng cares about Wu Suowei’s agency).
It means there will be morally questionable aspects that can be difficult to interpret, but it also means that there’s something that feels truthful, endearing and human about their relationship, that I believe is one of the reasons why the series is getting such an intense following. People feel that the story is not immobilised by a sense of ‘stiffness’ or ‘restraint’ in character interactions, because the characters are actually delving bluntly into verbal and physical behaviours (here i don’t necessarily mean sexual/romantic) that are based on raw feelings or thoughts, not held back by a polished template for morality. So it feels less like watching Trope 1 and Trope 2 interact, and more like watching Chi Cheng and Wu Suowei (the individuals) interact. They affect one another, they have fears, desires, ulterior motives, schemes, sincerity and affection that can be expressed in their own way, which might lead to a mistake in judgement or in testing one another’s lines.
Especially the dialogue really plays with heteronormative thinking by introducing it plainly and directly, and then breaking it apart in the most unexpected ways (ex; the very premise itself -> heteronormative thinking = Wu Suowei is a guy that had a girlfriend, and who now must earn his pride back vs transcending that norm = Wu Suowei is going to seduce THE GUY to take revenge?? In conclusion = reveals the absurdity and fragility of societal norms within society), which leads to reactions of laughter and/or excitement and investment, because the viewer feels freed by it too.
So yeah, just some thoughts I had which I wanted to express (sorry if it’s quite long-winded), of course my thoughts evolve throughout the show too but what I’ve written is something I do think is true for this series. Thank you to anyone who read this far! Again, I’d be happy to hear anyone’s thoughts as well^^
https://www.tiktok.com/@bilily.bts/video/7525618354862738710
And Wu Suowei saying it's his first time having feelings for a guy when he watches Chi Cheng fight lol
I actually think that Chi Cheng is quite aware that Wu Suowei is struggling with this specific aspect of not wanting to go through with sex (as a pyschological blockage), so I personally find that it's not a problem of miscommunication and more so an issue of Wu Suowei's sense of identity causing him a crisis in regards to his sexuality. The reason why I think Chi Cheng knows is because of how he's been subtly trying to address this very issue in a way that doesn't put too much pressure on Wu Suowei to have to respond immediately, whilst still trying to get Wu Suowei to face and resolve the matter. The main things Chi Cheng does is physically probe or patiently wait. Examples of the former is in how he sneakily initiates kisses and touches to see what Wu Suowei is okay with (but ultimately respects Wu Suowei's boundaries -> we see this in the kiss scene in ep 10 where Wu Suowei's change of tone in his voice indicates when he is serious or just panicked, which signals to Chi Cheng how far he can go).
Examples of the latter are in the many scenes in which Chi Cheng doesn't initiate anything sexual so that Wu Suowei can feel at ease, in order to be able to just affectionately be around each other without having to discuss the topic of having sex. This is prominent in the last few episodes in scenes such as when Wu Suowei misses Chi Cheng and touches himself, and then Chi Cheng arrives, sees him, and just lays beside him without doing anything else (even gives a verbal affirmation, which allows Wu Suowei to relax, and we see Wu Suowei stare at Chi Cheng lovingly as CC sleeps).
Another thing that Chi Cheng does in the most recent episode is verbally address the matter directly, where he says : "so you really don't want to sleep with me?" and Wu Suowei answers "no", leading Chi Cheng to then ask "then, what is it?", showing that actually Wu Suowei is not against sleeping with Chi Cheng in the sense of it being a form of intimacy between them, but is still unable to go through it at present because of what the action would mean for his identity and for his future.
So I think that this is also a reflection about how close and vulnerable they have gotten with each other, and how it manifests in these kinds of 'silent' conversations with each other, where they might not be directly saying anything about a matter, but they're still communicating their feelings in a different way and understanding each other through those indirect messages. It's just that as Wu Suowei's conflictedness won't go away, even with his own self-awareness, I think Chi Cheng is (semi-jokingly) trying to find other ways to try and get Wu Suowei to react. So that Wu Suowei may find a way to overcome his fear, or for him to really understand/come to terms with what is blocking him (and because Chi Cheng is a bit viciously playful too).
https://www.tiktok.com/@bilily.bts/video/7525236738420149526