Liltsu

I was just replying to someone about the topic of Chi Cheng's recent actions regarding Wu Suowei's trouble with coming to terms with his sexuality, so I wanted to put it here as a main post out of curiosity about people's opinions (and as someone who loves hearing other people's view and debate) :

I actually think that Chi Cheng is quite aware that Wu Suowei is struggling with this specific aspect of not wanting to go through with sex (as a pyschological blockage), so I personally find that it's not a problem of miscommunication and more so an issue of Wu Suowei's sense of identity causing him a crisis in regards to his sexuality. The reason why I think Chi Cheng knows is because of how he's been subtly trying to address this very issue in a way that doesn't put too much pressure on Wu Suowei to have to respond immediately, whilst still trying to get Wu Suowei to face and resolve the matter. The main things Chi Cheng does is physically probe or patiently wait. Examples of the former is in how he sneakily initiates kisses and touches to see what Wu Suowei is okay with (but ultimately respects Wu Suowei's boundaries -> we see this in the kiss scene in ep 10 where Wu Suowei's change of tone in his voice indicates when he is serious or just panicked, which signals to Chi Cheng how far he can go).

Examples of the latter are in the many scenes in which Chi Cheng doesn't initiate anything sexual so that Wu Suowei can feel at ease, in order to be able to just affectionately be around each other without having to discuss the topic of having sex. This is prominent in the last few episodes in scenes such as when Wu Suowei misses Chi Cheng and touches himself, and then Chi Cheng arrives, sees him, and just lays beside him without doing anything else (even gives a verbal affirmation, which allows Wu Suowei to relax, and we see Wu Suowei stare at Chi Cheng lovingly as CC sleeps).

Another thing that Chi Cheng does in the most recent episode is verbally address the matter directly, where he says : "so you really don't want to sleep with me?" and Wu Suowei answers "no", leading Chi Cheng to then ask "then, what is it?", showing that actually Wu Suowei is not against sleeping with Chi Cheng in the sense of it being a form of intimacy between them, but is still unable to go through it at present because of what the action would mean for his identity and for his future.

So I think that this is also a reflection about how close and vulnerable they have gotten with each other, and how it manifests in these kinds of 'silent' conversations with each other, where they might not be directly saying anything about a matter, but they're still communicating their feelings in a different way and understanding each other through those indirect messages. It's just that as Wu Suowei's conflictedness won't go away, even with his own self-awareness, I think Chi Cheng is (semi-jokingly) trying to find other ways to try and get Wu Suowei to react. So that Wu Suowei may find a way to overcome his fear, or for him to really understand/come to terms with what is blocking him (and because Chi Cheng is a bit viciously playful too).

I actually think that Chi Cheng is quite aware that Wu Suowei is struggling with this specific aspect, so I personally find that it's not a problem of miscommunication and more so an issue of Wu Suowei's sense of identity causing him a crisis in regards to his sexuality. The reason why I think Chi Cheng knows is because of how he's been subtly trying to address this very issue in a way that doesn't put too much pressure on Wu Suowei to have to respond immediately, whilst still trying to get to face and resolve the matter. The main things Chi Cheng does is physically probe or patiently wait. Examples of the former is in how he sneakily initiates kisses and touches to see what Wu Suowei is okay with (but ultimately respects Wu Suowei's boundaries -> we see this in the kiss scene in ep 10 where Wu Suowei's change of tone in his voice indicates when he is serious or just panicked, which signals to Chi Cheng how far he can go). Examples of the latter are in the many scenes in which Chi Cheng doesn't initiate anything sexual so that Wu Suowei can feel at ease, in order to be able to just affectionately be around each other without having to discuss the topic of having sex. This is prominent in the last few episodes in scenes such as when Wu Suowei misses Chi Cheng and touches himself, and then Chi Cheng arrives, sees him, and just lays beside him without doing anything else (even gives a verbal affirmation, which allows Wu Suowei to relax, and we see Wu Suowei stare at Chi Cheng lovingly as CC sleeps). Another thing that Chi Cheng does in the most recent episode is verbally address the matter directly, where he says : "so you really don't want to sleep with me?" and Wu Suowei answers "no", showing that actually Wu Suowei is not against sleeping with Chi Cheng in the sense of it being a form of intimacy between them, but is still unable to go through it at present because of what the action would mean for his identity and for his future. So I think that, as you mention, they have gotten really close and vulnerable with each other, and this includes their 'silent' conversations with each other about this kind of topic, where they might not be directly saying anything about it but they're still communicating in a different way and understanding each other in that sense. It's just that Wu Suowei's conflictedness won't go away, even with his own self-awareness, and I think that's why Chi Cheng is (semi-jokingly) trying to find other ways to try and get Wu Suowei to really find a way out of his fear, or for him to really understannd/come to terms with what is blocking him

Whilst we wait for monday to painfully come, I made this edit of Wu Suowei and ChiCheng to SAD! by XXXTENTACION, if anyone's interested ^^

https://www.tiktok.com/@bilily.bts/video/7525236738420149526

the funniest part is that Xiao Shuai really ends up being the first person Wu Suowei sees

Thank you I'm so happy to have received any kind of response but especially receiving comments as thoughtful and insightful as yours! I agree, I think it's really important that stories don't have to have characters that perfectly apply ideal moral standards, and also explore a unique dynamic between individuals. I also think that there's value in debating about how things are represented and why. With characters like Wu Suowei and Chi Cheng, what's so refreshing and meaningful in this story (and on my view, one of the reasons why I think this series has kind of revived people's interest in BL/made people so invested in this series in a way I haven't seen in a while) is due to how it actually allows the characters to explore each other's boundaries. A lot of characters behave within a pre-determined set of values and norms that don't really relate to their personal relationship with the other character, but simply follow a line of logic that doesn't 'cross the moral line' for viewers. But the issue is that, as humans, we develop intimate and vulnerable connections with people when we are as we are: morally complex, ambiguous, and flawed. This also includes positive flaws and can draw positive outcomes because it is through a spectrum of good, bad, and everything in between, that we feel close to others. This includes the relationship between character and viewer. Revenged Love doesn't try to evade or erase those conflicting norms or controversial aspects of life, it addresses and faces norms (even prejudiced ones) to then be able to transcend them, and that creates the feeling of excitement in the relationship coming across as 'real' or 'vivid' to the viewer. It feels like watching detailed characters rather than tropes, in a bl series. One fairly simple example is in Wu Suowei's reaction to Jiang Xiao Shuai's sexuality as a gay man. Wu Suowei is first shocked and kind of jokingly evades his touch when he immediately finds out, which reflects a form of internalised homophobia. But in the next scene of them together, Wu Suowei is comfortably walking around half-naked, oblivious to Jiang Xiao Shuai's amusement, and when Jiang Xiao Shuaiiang hints at it, Wu Suowei nonchalantly remembers "Oh, that's right, forgot you liked men", completely unbothered and clearly accepting of Jiang Xiao Shuai's sexuality, whilst their friendship is as close as it's ever been. I think that the detail of his first reaction is an acknowledgement of the reality that straightness is societally treated as the default due to heteronormativity, and therefore that affects queer people/the way that queer people are treated or how they come out to others (even though the scene itself is literally comedic, it's a way of acknowledging it). Yet Wu Suowei's quick nonchalance reflects the way the series is conveying that there's nothing wrong with queerness, as well as Wu Suowei's characteristics as a person who is open and thinks critically (the idea that we all have internalised prejudice in some ways due to societal norms, but the difference is in how we then choose to think consciously, and how that changes through exposure). Not entirely satisfied with how I worded this but hopefully it makes sense or is interesting in any way. I'm really excited for the next eps, and thank you again

thank you, I really appreciate it and I'm happy to get your thoughts! Regarding all the elements you mentioned, I see what you mean and mostly agree. I think that's where the aspect of the characters being morally ambiguous comes in, and that their behaviours and actions are meant to be considered questionable at times or don't fit a normative standard of good or bad. We get to see their journey as people who go through moral changes and affect each other, just like you mentioned. I personally also like to think of the series itself as playing with norms, and that the series maybe is in some way, satirical about certain tropes too

thank you so much! I'm really pleased you think so and thank you for taking the time to read

Thank you, I'm happy it was interesting, and I'm so grateful for your detailed and interesting response. I really agree with you regarding how Chi Cheng prioritises his emotional connection with Wu Suowei over the physical relationship he first wanted to have, and thus respects Wu Suowei's wish.

I love how you thought of the scene where WSW consoles Chi Cheng metaphorically. The idea that the door is a metaphor for Chi Cheng letting people into his heart or not. Just to add to your thoughts, thinking about it in that way, it's really interesting that previous scenes in which we saw Yue Yue at his place, we don't actually ever see her go through the door. She's already there with Chi Cheng, only because of his permission, and therefore conveys the image of him only entering his life within the extent of his use for her.

Whereas, as you mentioned, a lot of the scenes with Wu Suowei really emphasize the idea of him going in and out of the door, and being brought back in by Chi Cheng. Another thing to add in continuation with your metaphor, is to think about when Yue Yue hired the two guys to break into Chi Cheng's home (to kill the snake), we can think of it as being metaphorical of how Yue Yue tries to (literally) force her way into Chi Cheng's heart, and not only fails to, but is stopped by none other than Wu Suowei. Therefore, further conveying the idea that Wu Suowei already has Chi Cheng's love.

Thank you so much for your comment/sharing your thoughts and I'm really pleased you found my thoughts enjoyable to read! And agreed, their flaws as characters aren't meant to justify a power imbalance between the characters or to stay as a trope, the flaws seem to deeply characterise the leads and affect their vision of life/wants/focuses/interactions in ways where we see their development as you mentioned. Plus the fact that the characters are treated as equals in terms of their abilities and awareness, they're on par. I like to think that these kinds of stories also feel more human in certain respects because the characters aren't as morally polished but the story actually delves into this so that it doesn't make the characters fixed in their morality either, just like people in real life

thank you ^^

Thank you so much and also for taking the time to reply ^^ I really agree on how Wu Suowei's charms bring something refreshing to the story (Chi Cheng as well ofc), and personally I think that part of the reason why is due to how Wu Suowei is quite self-aware/aware, even when we joke about his denial regarding his feelings for Chi Cheng. He's clearly very astute and so it's satisfying to see how things unfold (and through his ploys too), because the story is driven by him rather than by common plot devices such as misunderstandings (the kind where the characters are actually oblivious/don't reconsider or reflect more deeply on it). This aspect of Wu Suowei also contributes to the relationship feeling equal because both characters feel fleshed out and have agency, which isn't necessarily always the norm in most romances. Probably also why BL series are so beloved as they tend to have characters that tend to be more equal to one another. But since some BL series do impose gender roles, making the relationship feel unequal, I think that Revenged Love's popularity is a testament to when an audience can feel, whether consciously or subconsciously, that the leads are equals in essence.

i'm so happy to hear that it was insightful and thank you for your answer/taking the time to read ^^ i'm looking forward to seeing how the series might explore these themes in more detail in the remaining episodes or if not, what kind of narrative conclusions will be made

Just saw a video on tiktok discussing the SA in the series and just wanted to share the thoughts I had written as a comment on here cause I'm curious as to what people think (I also developed my thoughts in more detail here):

I can see why it bothers people and at the same time I think that the series has a rather interesting way of discussing this, and also acknowledges the SA to some extent (unlike in some media where it's seen as purely desirable). The reason why I think so is because of the way Chi Cheng is portrayed through the lighting in the show, as well as through his character development as a person.

Essentially, in the first ep, we are introduced to him as a ruthless and dangerous figure, who is shown in red lighting, which hints at his questionable morality. When we see the scene where he orders a group SA on someone, it's likewise shown as a disturbing moment through the screaming, and dark lighting that makes chi cheng look like a villain. Likewise, when he's around Wu Suowei, he practically exercises little to no boundaries at the beginning and it's something that makes Wu Suowei visibly uncomfortable, and is also one of the reasons Wu Suowei is not that fond of Chi Cheng at first (not that he particularly dislikes him either, but definitely feels uneasy with certain actions at that point in the story - I do think it's partly due to internalised homophobia from Wu Suowei as well, but it's important in my view that it is mainly the lack of consent that bothers him).

The critical scene around the lack of boundaries within Wu Suowei's and Chi Cheng's relationship comes about when their relationship has developed a little more (after a few eps) and Chi Cheng tries to have sex forcibly/insistently with Wu Suowei and WSW responds that if CC goes through with his intention, he will never be able to have his heart. Which to me also reflects on the idea that the series is showing that Chi Cheng's action would indeed trespass on WSW's consent, and would therefore harm their relationship. His words strongly express the fact that it would mean that Wu Suowei would turn away from Chi Cheng entirely, especially on an emotional level.

From that scene onward (but also prior to it), we see Chi Cheng becoming more mindful, less violent and aggressive, and is shown to pay more attention to Wu Suowei's boundaries. That's not to excuse his prior behaviour or dubious consent in future eps (if it continues), but I do find it meaningful that the series is conveying the idea that the characters aren't meant to be considered morally righteous, and that on the contrary they have questionable traits, and that it explores the kind of changes they go through during the series as people who are capable of growth (even if they can still be held accountable for their actions or may even never become morally ideal).

Also, if I may add (and it's not to take away from the dubious consent that is definitely present in certain scenes), but I also find it significant to take into account character dynamics. In stories, characters can understand each other and interact with each other in ways that go beyond how we typically identify moral cues. I've been rewatching My Beautiful Man lately, and I think that Hira and Kiyoi's relationship is a noteworthy example of a relationship that can easily be misunderstood and given labels that would be correct in theory, but in practice (what the characters are actually like/what their actions mean) are different to how they seem.

For example, with how Hira's insults are less meant to be taken literally (him saying "you're digusting"/"you're annoying" to Hira, which could ordinarily be interpreted as him looking down on or being cruel to Hira), is in actuality meant to be taken as a phrase that expresses Kiyoi's shy nature, where he says the opposite to what he really means, and when that's understood by Hira, it actually becomes Kiyoi's way of expressing his affection to Hira. Likewise, Wu Suowei and Chi Cheng have now gotten to a point where they have a silent understanding of each other and their ways of interacting. We see this with how Wu Suowei doesn't even need to explain why he left the rat poison -> Chi Cheng understands him well enough that he doesn't even need to ask, he figures out Wu Suowei's intentions as soon as he got the call from him, even as he still doesn't know the full picture in detail. Likewise, when Wu Suowei finds out that Chi Cheng is only with Yue Yue for the snakes, he actually figures that out because he understands Chi Cheng so well that, even with limited info, he could piece it together. He even says "I should have known that Chi Cheng wouldn't be someone who would be controlled by a girlfriend" as a reflection of how much he's observed and gotten to know about him. With certain scenes where Chi Cheng touches Wu Suowei, I think it's also important to factor this in, in order to differentiate between scenes that actually do have mutual consent (even if they on a surface level, i repeat, surface level, don't seem to) and when there is dubious consent. Of course it can be debated and feel free to let me know if you disagree with this point, but I think that does make a huge difference in how to think of the characters. If I were to give my own opinion of two scenes in Revenged Love as comparison, I would say that the car kiss in episode 5 as well as the scene in ep 5 when Chi Cheng visits Wu Suowei's home and tries to forcibly touch WSW have dubious/lack of consent. We see this in how Wu Suo Wei is extremely uncomfortable and tries to push Chi Cheng away but Chi Cheng insists, even if it stops mid-way. And these two scenes both occur prior to the scene in episode 6 when Wu Suowei says 'if you dare touch me now, we'll only have a physical relationship'.

It's also around the time / right before their relationship transitions from a revenge plot (WSW) and purely sexual goal (CC) to a relationship that becomes vulnerable, more loving and genuine. In comparison, when we look at scenes in ep 7 or 8, we see a change in how Wu Suowei and Chi Cheng discuss their sexual or physical interactions. The first change to note is the emotional base of their connection: they're both more honest toward each other and we see that their appreciation for each other as people (not just as romantic partners) grow, such as in the scene in which WSW comforts CC, and when CC communicates truthfully to WSW (telling him in detail about the business trip in a way that won't worry him or make him misunderstand). Or the scene in which CC is more worried about WSW's safety over his beloved snake when he got hurt protecting the snake. Second, we're actually seeing the mutuality in their physical intimacy through the explicit scenes of Wu Suowei desiring Chi Cheng physically (such as when he touches himself/missing him when he cries out 'Chi Cheng') and is comfortable with being touched by Chi Cheng or then voices it out when it's not, which Chi Cheng abides by when Wu Suowei means it (ex: the scene in ep 7 when WSW is sad about CC's business trip and doesn't want to be coaxed by Chi Cheng). Thirdly, the conversations that the characters have about their interactions of Chi Cheng shamelessly coming onto Wu Suowei "forcefully" but it's within consensual behaviour through their understanding of each other. The final scene in episode 8 really captures this well. Wu Suowei's fear at this point is what Chi Cheng's reaction will be when he finds out about his plan, and he asks about it to Chi Cheng (WSW looks genuinely caring and awaits his response). Chi Cheng says he'll like him even more if that's the case, and surprised/confused Wu Suowei then asks why. Chi Cheng replies that it's because then WSW would owe him and he'd rightfully be able to sleep with him. On the surface, this appears really dubious (the idea that just because someone else did something wrong against you, that it would give you the right to have sex with them), and Wu Suowei gets annoyed and prepares to pinch Chi Cheng, and Chi Cheng stops him, before saying "I've never wanted anyone this badly before."

The way I see it:

"Then you'd owe me, and I could rightfully sleep with you."
= Chi Cheng's unfiltered desire, and way of teasing Wu Suowei to mess with him

"I've never wanted anyone this badly before."
= what he means at heart

After which, Wu Suowei proceeds to say gently "your love is too straightforward", and turns away from him.

What's really significant about this line is that, without context, it can interpreted in so many different ways. But as we know that Wu Suowei is a character who, at the start of the series, was taken for granted by other people, was looked down on and judged for things outside of his control, and whose feelings/wants were completely disregarded, the sentence is really touching.

What Wu Suowei actually means in saying "your love is too straight-forward"
= he's moved by the fact that Chi Cheng takes such an interest in him, genuinely likes Wu Suowei for who he is, and that Chi Cheng shows his affection towards him so boldly (which Wu Suowei is comforted by).

It's a more vulnerable moment, where Wu Suowei even becomes pensive and slightly conflicted (given the guilt he feels about deceiving CC).

Then when Chi Cheng turns him around and they both smile at each other, and Chi Cheng says "why would I sweet-talk you", there's an interesting detail about how Wu Suowei lowers his head slightly every time Chi Cheng slightly leans more toward him as though he's teasing Chi Cheng, and their faces look happy. Before the shot pans out, Chi Cheng places his head on Wu Suowei's shoulder in endearment before it fades out. I think it really showcases their dynamic, and how unfiltered they are with their actions or words, and how that will inevitably enter morally grey territory and yet that their relationship finds a unique sincerity within that, as they establish their own boundaries in their relationship (which may not necessarily align with conventional norms around morality). I also think it's one of the main reasons why this series is grabbing so many people's attention and making people feel genuinely invested. Since their interactions are not as filtered through traditional ways of abiding to morality, their dynamic feels refreshing and less 'censored' whilst boundaries are actively explored implicitly in the subtext of the series.


Oufff that was so long so thank you to anyone who read this far and any thoughts would be really fascinating to hear (feel free to completely disagree/agree with me as well if you have differing opinions/interpretations) ^^

out of curiosity, what do you mean by it being disconnected and what did you not like about it in comparison to what you did like?

One important detail about his character is that Wu Suowei is already visibly in a slump, both mentally and physically long before Yue Yue even tells him to break up.

This is significant because typically in dramas, the character goes into a slump after the breakup because the downfall is caused by the separation. Yet here, it's something else. Wu Suowei was already showing signs of being stuck in a mundane (and heteronormative) cycle in which he's expected to work, submit to authority (as he was already working for an abusive boss), keep up with conventions, have a certain status (as a man, to be seen as "desirable" if you're rich, something yue yue expects of him) and to lock into a heterosexual relationship with the goal of marriage (the first episode is literally about wu suowei intending to present his then girlfriend to his mum).

My own theory is that this heteronormative lifestyle and expectations were already affecting Wu Suowei's life before the story even starts, and is why he kept regressing and fell into a dangerous cycle in which others would mistreat him or look down on him, despite the fact that he is canonically witty, playful, expressive, able to think outside of the box and actually has a lot of courage to go through what he believes in, as well as he is very aware of others's intentions and is good at reading people. So it's very telling that the trigger to his transformation is indeed when yue yue breaks up with him, but essentially because it breaks the illusion of the "security" and "stability" in life that norms / heteronormativity claim to bring.

So when Wu Suowei is finally free from those claws, and starts to live life on his own terms, he transcends expectations in the very non-heteronormative idea of seducing Chi Cheng, a man, in order to get revenge. And we see how much this transition allows Wu Suowei to express all the unique and unconventional aspects of his personality (his eccentricity, boldness, creativity and dreams) that had previously been repressed due to the society he adhered to. I find it all the more fascinating that in the previous episode, Wu Suowei revealed that he has an ambition to make art and to have art be more accessible, and recognised as something that isn't defined by class or eclusivity, but is instead something that can be practical and done by anyone, in any way they want. A metaphor for Wu Suowei's defiance of societal expectations (almost as if the series is consciously nodding to this!)

Your comment gives me life and thank you for speaking about this as it really validates my own thoughts about the show so far. Funnily enough, I have a similar train of thought but from Wu Suowei's perspective. One important detail about his character is that Wu Suowei is already visibly in a slump, both mentally and physically long before Yue Yue even tells him to break up. This is significant because typically in dramas, the character goes into a slump after the breakup because the downfall is caused by the separation. Yet here, it's something else. Wu Suowei was already showing signs of being stuck in a mundane (and heteronormative) cycle in which he's expected to work, submit to authority (as he was already working for an abusive boss), keep up with conventions, have a certain status (as a man, to be seen as "desirable" if you're rich, something yue yue expects of him) and to lock into a heterosexual relationship with the goal of marriage (the first episode is literally about wu suowei intending to present his then girlfriend to his mum). My own theory is that this heteronormative lifestyle and expectations were already affecting Wu Suowei's life before the story even starts, and is why he kept regressing and fell into a dangerous cycle in which others would mistreat him or look down on him, despite the fact that he is canonically witty, playful, expressive, able to think outside of the box and actually has a lot of courage to go through what he believes in, as well as he is very aware of others's intentions and is good at reading people. So it's very telling that the trigger to his transformation is indeed when yue yue breaks up with him, but essentially because it breaks the illusion of the "security" and "stability" in life that norms / heteronormativity claim to bring. So when Wu Suowei is finally free from those claws, and starts to live life on his own terms, transcending expectations in the very non-heteronormative idea of seducing Chi Cheng, a man, in order to get revenge, we see how much this transition allows Wu Suowei to express all the unique and unconventional aspects of his personality (his eccentricity, boldness, creativity and dreams) that had previously been repressed due to the society he adhered to. To join in on your thoughts, I find it all the more fascinating that in the previous episode, Wu Suowei revealed that he has an ambition to make art accessible and to have art be recognised as something that isn't defined by class or exclusivity, but is instead able to be practical and done by anyone, in any way they want (almost as if the series is consciously nodding to this!)

I personally think that most of Chi Cheng's acts of service, such as giving him money or initiating physical contact etc is out of his own affection and desire (if we compare the first time he gives WSW money, I think that's more so because he's happy to play along with WSW out of curiosity + desire for sex, and because he's very nonchalant about spending money [think of how he also gave his card to yue yue], but when he gave his card to WSW when WSW was talking about his art project, that was more out of love, since it also happens later on in the episodes so far, as their relationship develops). Meanwhile, the actions in which Chi Cheng is testing WSW to be able to understand his motives are more silent and passive so far (mainly via observation and letting WSW act to see what happens). One example being the snake, where Chi Cheng waited to see how things unfolded to know for sure who had left the rat poison to fully understand the intent and involvement of wach person (whether yue yue had done it alone or if wsw was involved, and if yes to what extent and why)

Yes

Chi Cheng x Wu Suowei : Magic by Coldplay

https://www.tiktok.com/@bilily.bts/video/7519671258036833558https://www.tiktok.com/@bilily.bts/video/7519671258036833558

Wu Suowei x ’Boy’s A Liar’:

https://www.tiktok.com/@bilily.bts/video/7518901038372392214?lang=en