Liltsu

i'm so happy to hear that it was insightful and thank you for your answer/taking the time to read ^^ i'm looking forward to seeing how the series might explore these themes in more detail in the remaining episodes or if not, what kind of narrative conclusions will be made

Just saw a video on tiktok discussing the SA in the series and just wanted to share the thoughts I had written as a comment on here cause I'm curious as to what people think (I also developed my thoughts in more detail here):

I can see why it bothers people and at the same time I think that the series has a rather interesting way of discussing this, and also acknowledges the SA to some extent (unlike in some media where it's seen as purely desirable). The reason why I think so is because of the way Chi Cheng is portrayed through the lighting in the show, as well as through his character development as a person.

Essentially, in the first ep, we are introduced to him as a ruthless and dangerous figure, who is shown in red lighting, which hints at his questionable morality. When we see the scene where he orders a group SA on someone, it's likewise shown as a disturbing moment through the screaming, and dark lighting that makes chi cheng look like a villain. Likewise, when he's around Wu Suowei, he practically exercises little to no boundaries at the beginning and it's something that makes Wu Suowei visibly uncomfortable, and is also one of the reasons Wu Suowei is not that fond of Chi Cheng at first (not that he particularly dislikes him either, but definitely feels uneasy with certain actions at that point in the story - I do think it's partly due to internalised homophobia from Wu Suowei as well, but it's important in my view that it is mainly the lack of consent that bothers him).

The critical scene around the lack of boundaries within Wu Suowei's and Chi Cheng's relationship comes about when their relationship has developed a little more (after a few eps) and Chi Cheng tries to have sex forcibly/insistently with Wu Suowei and WSW responds that if CC goes through with his intention, he will never be able to have his heart. Which to me also reflects on the idea that the series is showing that Chi Cheng's action would indeed trespass on WSW's consent, and would therefore harm their relationship. His words strongly express the fact that it would mean that Wu Suowei would turn away from Chi Cheng entirely, especially on an emotional level.

From that scene onward (but also prior to it), we see Chi Cheng becoming more mindful, less violent and aggressive, and is shown to pay more attention to Wu Suowei's boundaries. That's not to excuse his prior behaviour or dubious consent in future eps (if it continues), but I do find it meaningful that the series is conveying the idea that the characters aren't meant to be considered morally righteous, and that on the contrary they have questionable traits, and that it explores the kind of changes they go through during the series as people who are capable of growth (even if they can still be held accountable for their actions or may even never become morally ideal).

Also, if I may add (and it's not to take away from the dubious consent that is definitely present in certain scenes), but I also find it significant to take into account character dynamics. In stories, characters can understand each other and interact with each other in ways that go beyond how we typically identify moral cues. I've been rewatching My Beautiful Man lately, and I think that Hira and Kiyoi's relationship is a noteworthy example of a relationship that can easily be misunderstood and given labels that would be correct in theory, but in practice (what the characters are actually like/what their actions mean) are different to how they seem.

For example, with how Hira's insults are less meant to be taken literally (him saying "you're digusting"/"you're annoying" to Hira, which could ordinarily be interpreted as him looking down on or being cruel to Hira), is in actuality meant to be taken as a phrase that expresses Kiyoi's shy nature, where he says the opposite to what he really means, and when that's understood by Hira, it actually becomes Kiyoi's way of expressing his affection to Hira. Likewise, Wu Suowei and Chi Cheng have now gotten to a point where they have a silent understanding of each other and their ways of interacting. We see this with how Wu Suowei doesn't even need to explain why he left the rat poison -> Chi Cheng understands him well enough that he doesn't even need to ask, he figures out Wu Suowei's intentions as soon as he got the call from him, even as he still doesn't know the full picture in detail. Likewise, when Wu Suowei finds out that Chi Cheng is only with Yue Yue for the snakes, he actually figures that out because he understands Chi Cheng so well that, even with limited info, he could piece it together. He even says "I should have known that Chi Cheng wouldn't be someone who would be controlled by a girlfriend" as a reflection of how much he's observed and gotten to know about him. With certain scenes where Chi Cheng touches Wu Suowei, I think it's also important to factor this in, in order to differentiate between scenes that actually do have mutual consent (even if they on a surface level, i repeat, surface level, don't seem to) and when there is dubious consent. Of course it can be debated and feel free to let me know if you disagree with this point, but I think that does make a huge difference in how to think of the characters. If I were to give my own opinion of two scenes in Revenged Love as comparison, I would say that the car kiss in episode 5 as well as the scene in ep 5 when Chi Cheng visits Wu Suowei's home and tries to forcibly touch WSW have dubious/lack of consent. We see this in how Wu Suo Wei is extremely uncomfortable and tries to push Chi Cheng away but Chi Cheng insists, even if it stops mid-way. And these two scenes both occur prior to the scene in episode 6 when Wu Suowei says 'if you dare touch me now, we'll only have a physical relationship'.

It's also around the time / right before their relationship transitions from a revenge plot (WSW) and purely sexual goal (CC) to a relationship that becomes vulnerable, more loving and genuine. In comparison, when we look at scenes in ep 7 or 8, we see a change in how Wu Suowei and Chi Cheng discuss their sexual or physical interactions. The first change to note is the emotional base of their connection: they're both more honest toward each other and we see that their appreciation for each other as people (not just as romantic partners) grow, such as in the scene in which WSW comforts CC, and when CC communicates truthfully to WSW (telling him in detail about the business trip in a way that won't worry him or make him misunderstand). Or the scene in which CC is more worried about WSW's safety over his beloved snake when he got hurt protecting the snake. Second, we're actually seeing the mutuality in their physical intimacy through the explicit scenes of Wu Suowei desiring Chi Cheng physically (such as when he touches himself/missing him when he cries out 'Chi Cheng') and is comfortable with being touched by Chi Cheng or then voices it out when it's not, which Chi Cheng abides by when Wu Suowei means it (ex: the scene in ep 7 when WSW is sad about CC's business trip and doesn't want to be coaxed by Chi Cheng). Thirdly, the conversations that the characters have about their interactions of Chi Cheng shamelessly coming onto Wu Suowei "forcefully" but it's within consensual behaviour through their understanding of each other. The final scene in episode 8 really captures this well. Wu Suowei's fear at this point is what Chi Cheng's reaction will be when he finds out about his plan, and he asks about it to Chi Cheng (WSW looks genuinely caring and awaits his response). Chi Cheng says he'll like him even more if that's the case, and surprised/confused Wu Suowei then asks why. Chi Cheng replies that it's because then WSW would owe him and he'd rightfully be able to sleep with him. On the surface, this appears really dubious (the idea that just because someone else did something wrong against you, that it would give you the right to have sex with them), and Wu Suowei gets annoyed and prepares to pinch Chi Cheng, and Chi Cheng stops him, before saying "I've never wanted anyone this badly before."

The way I see it:

"Then you'd owe me, and I could rightfully sleep with you."
= Chi Cheng's unfiltered desire, and way of teasing Wu Suowei to mess with him

"I've never wanted anyone this badly before."
= what he means at heart

After which, Wu Suowei proceeds to say gently "your love is too straightforward", and turns away from him.

What's really significant about this line is that, without context, it can interpreted in so many different ways. But as we know that Wu Suowei is a character who, at the start of the series, was taken for granted by other people, was looked down on and judged for things outside of his control, and whose feelings/wants were completely disregarded, the sentence is really touching.

What Wu Suowei actually means in saying "your love is too straight-forward"
= he's moved by the fact that Chi Cheng takes such an interest in him, genuinely likes Wu Suowei for who he is, and that Chi Cheng shows his affection towards him so boldly (which Wu Suowei is comforted by).

It's a more vulnerable moment, where Wu Suowei even becomes pensive and slightly conflicted (given the guilt he feels about deceiving CC).

Then when Chi Cheng turns him around and they both smile at each other, and Chi Cheng says "why would I sweet-talk you", there's an interesting detail about how Wu Suowei lowers his head slightly every time Chi Cheng slightly leans more toward him as though he's teasing Chi Cheng, and their faces look happy. Before the shot pans out, Chi Cheng places his head on Wu Suowei's shoulder in endearment before it fades out. I think it really showcases their dynamic, and how unfiltered they are with their actions or words, and how that will inevitably enter morally grey territory and yet that their relationship finds a unique sincerity within that, as they establish their own boundaries in their relationship (which may not necessarily align with conventional norms around morality). I also think it's one of the main reasons why this series is grabbing so many people's attention and making people feel genuinely invested. Since their interactions are not as filtered through traditional ways of abiding to morality, their dynamic feels refreshing and less 'censored' whilst boundaries are actively explored implicitly in the subtext of the series.


Oufff that was so long so thank you to anyone who read this far and any thoughts would be really fascinating to hear (feel free to completely disagree/agree with me as well if you have differing opinions/interpretations) ^^

out of curiosity, what do you mean by it being disconnected and what did you not like about it in comparison to what you did like?

One important detail about his character is that Wu Suowei is already visibly in a slump, both mentally and physically long before Yue Yue even tells him to break up.

This is significant because typically in dramas, the character goes into a slump after the breakup because the downfall is caused by the separation. Yet here, it's something else. Wu Suowei was already showing signs of being stuck in a mundane (and heteronormative) cycle in which he's expected to work, submit to authority (as he was already working for an abusive boss), keep up with conventions, have a certain status (as a man, to be seen as "desirable" if you're rich, something yue yue expects of him) and to lock into a heterosexual relationship with the goal of marriage (the first episode is literally about wu suowei intending to present his then girlfriend to his mum).

My own theory is that this heteronormative lifestyle and expectations were already affecting Wu Suowei's life before the story even starts, and is why he kept regressing and fell into a dangerous cycle in which others would mistreat him or look down on him, despite the fact that he is canonically witty, playful, expressive, able to think outside of the box and actually has a lot of courage to go through what he believes in, as well as he is very aware of others's intentions and is good at reading people. So it's very telling that the trigger to his transformation is indeed when yue yue breaks up with him, but essentially because it breaks the illusion of the "security" and "stability" in life that norms / heteronormativity claim to bring.

So when Wu Suowei is finally free from those claws, and starts to live life on his own terms, he transcends expectations in the very non-heteronormative idea of seducing Chi Cheng, a man, in order to get revenge. And we see how much this transition allows Wu Suowei to express all the unique and unconventional aspects of his personality (his eccentricity, boldness, creativity and dreams) that had previously been repressed due to the society he adhered to. I find it all the more fascinating that in the previous episode, Wu Suowei revealed that he has an ambition to make art and to have art be more accessible, and recognised as something that isn't defined by class or eclusivity, but is instead something that can be practical and done by anyone, in any way they want. A metaphor for Wu Suowei's defiance of societal expectations (almost as if the series is consciously nodding to this!)

Your comment gives me life and thank you for speaking about this as it really validates my own thoughts about the show so far. Funnily enough, I have a similar train of thought but from Wu Suowei's perspective. One important detail about his character is that Wu Suowei is already visibly in a slump, both mentally and physically long before Yue Yue even tells him to break up. This is significant because typically in dramas, the character goes into a slump after the breakup because the downfall is caused by the separation. Yet here, it's something else. Wu Suowei was already showing signs of being stuck in a mundane (and heteronormative) cycle in which he's expected to work, submit to authority (as he was already working for an abusive boss), keep up with conventions, have a certain status (as a man, to be seen as "desirable" if you're rich, something yue yue expects of him) and to lock into a heterosexual relationship with the goal of marriage (the first episode is literally about wu suowei intending to present his then girlfriend to his mum). My own theory is that this heteronormative lifestyle and expectations were already affecting Wu Suowei's life before the story even starts, and is why he kept regressing and fell into a dangerous cycle in which others would mistreat him or look down on him, despite the fact that he is canonically witty, playful, expressive, able to think outside of the box and actually has a lot of courage to go through what he believes in, as well as he is very aware of others's intentions and is good at reading people. So it's very telling that the trigger to his transformation is indeed when yue yue breaks up with him, but essentially because it breaks the illusion of the "security" and "stability" in life that norms / heteronormativity claim to bring. So when Wu Suowei is finally free from those claws, and starts to live life on his own terms, transcending expectations in the very non-heteronormative idea of seducing Chi Cheng, a man, in order to get revenge, we see how much this transition allows Wu Suowei to express all the unique and unconventional aspects of his personality (his eccentricity, boldness, creativity and dreams) that had previously been repressed due to the society he adhered to. To join in on your thoughts, I find it all the more fascinating that in the previous episode, Wu Suowei revealed that he has an ambition to make art accessible and to have art be recognised as something that isn't defined by class or exclusivity, but is instead able to be practical and done by anyone, in any way they want (almost as if the series is consciously nodding to this!)

I personally think that most of Chi Cheng's acts of service, such as giving him money or initiating physical contact etc is out of his own affection and desire (if we compare the first time he gives WSW money, I think that's more so because he's happy to play along with WSW out of curiosity + desire for sex, and because he's very nonchalant about spending money [think of how he also gave his card to yue yue], but when he gave his card to WSW when WSW was talking about his art project, that was more out of love, since it also happens later on in the episodes so far, as their relationship develops). Meanwhile, the actions in which Chi Cheng is testing WSW to be able to understand his motives are more silent and passive so far (mainly via observation and letting WSW act to see what happens). One example being the snake, where Chi Cheng waited to see how things unfolded to know for sure who had left the rat poison to fully understand the intent and involvement of wach person (whether yue yue had done it alone or if wsw was involved, and if yes to what extent and why)

Yes

Chi Cheng x Wu Suowei : Magic by Coldplay

https://www.tiktok.com/@bilily.bts/video/7519671258036833558https://www.tiktok.com/@bilily.bts/video/7519671258036833558

Wu Suowei x ’Boy’s A Liar’:

https://www.tiktok.com/@bilily.bts/video/7518901038372392214?lang=en

just posting my caption from my edit if anyone's curious to read my thoughts on Wu Suowei's motive:

whilst his plan seems petty, i like that the series shows us that wu suowei's experience of being seen as "lesser" is a real form of pain to him, and is the driving motivation behind his actions. it seems less like he's simply trying to hurt the people he felt betrayed by, and more a way for him to prove that he's "worthy" as a person too, of respect and love. so i find it quite intruiging to see that even though wu suowei is deceiving chi cheng (and chi cheng can tell something's up), wu suowei is also genuinely affected by his interactions with chi cheng (a figure who doesn't need wu suowei to be wealthy, nor of high status, as well as chi cheng is the one putting up with wu suowei instead of the other way around - as wu suowei is the one used to putting up with other people's mistreatment of him). instead, wu suowei, for the first time, is kind of breaking the walls of heteronormativity in his own life, in how he experiences his own value: making himself pursued instead of being the pursuer, and how that experience is sort of toppling the expectations around his identity and making him rethink and play with gender roles/toxic masculinity. plus, the fact that it's in the hospital that wu suowei "restarts" in episode 1, and that the rest of the series takes place in said hospital as his new "home", really leans toward the metaphor of wu suowei having a "wound of the heart". a wound which he is trying to treat and heal through his plot for revenge. it's why I particularly like the scene where Chi cheng is with Wu suo wei at the clinic/hospital, and chi cheng is treating the injury on wu suowei's head (caused by the people he's trying to take revenge in), as though to further insinuate that their ongoing relationship is and will truly impact wu suowei emotionally and is more profound than simply him trying to get back at someone, and will allow him to really grow.


LINK TO EDIT: https://www.tiktok.com/@bilily.bts/video/7517722806805728534

out of curiosity, wouldn't chinese bls still make a lot of money because the international audience will really latch onto a series like this one (it's already building a lot of hype on social media) or is it not enough solely due to its inaccessibility in mainland china?

it's refreshing to see the characters be so bold in what they say and the scheming between them given their growing romance:

https://www.tiktok.com/@bilily.bts/video/7516974135482862870

I really really like the series so far and i'm genuinely excited for the rest to come out

The reassurance that Tada’s existence gives to Armin right now:

https://www.tiktok.com/@bilily.bts/video/7516719491896642839?lang=en

Babe and Charlie's relationship:

https://www.tiktok.com/@bilily.bts

"Falling down"

Sun x Peace:

https://www.tiktok.com/@bilily.bts/video/7510619356540226838?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=mobile&sender_web_id=7510667973003216406

Thank you so much! (And for taking the time to check💜)

If anyone’s curious about this edit I made of the characters ^^:

https://www.tiktok.com/@bilily.bts/video/7510352928943688982?lang=en

I totally agree with you, I’ve not seen Return of a Ganster and that makes me curious to watch it to compare(it’s a shame if it sounds like they didn’t keep the romance explicit)

You explained it in such good detail (much clearer than I could) and neatly explained the reasons as to why I think the choice of focus on the characters is so detrimental to Seungwon and Heesu’s relationship so far (thank you for your comment and the witty way you wrote ’numero 1’ and ’numero dos’ made me laugh haha)

Whilst I am enjoying Heesu in Class 2, I personally find it disheartening that, for a drama that has 10 episodes, we're four episodes in and we've barely gotten long interactions between our main leads (Heesu and Seungwon) whilst the drama keeps focusing on other aspects such as Heesu's sisters, Chanyoung's wish to continue tennis and Chanyoung & JiYu's relationship. I'll explain in more detail why I think so:

If this was a 16 episode drama with 1h long episodes, I'd just trust the process but we're nearly half-way through and episode 4 has like 3 minutes of interaction between Heesu and Seungwon total, whilst Chanyoung and Ji Yu's scene in the basement on its own is five consecutive minutes, not even including the rest of their scenes in the same episode, and series so far, when their romance didn't exist in the manhwa (please correct me if I'm wrong).

I understand this might change in the long run, and maybe once the series is complete I might have a completely different opinion; because who knows, maybe the rest of the episodes will fully focus on Heesu and Seungwon and make up for it (whilst the first episodes will then be considered to have just set up the circumstances). But I just wanted to vent a little bit, because (and this is my own speculation) it seems to be a conscious decision from the creators of the series, based on their handling of the trailer, to minimise the queerness of the story to make it more palatable to a mainstream audience.

I think that this is not done out of intentional ill-will, because I think that the trailer for example and their current execution of the series seems to try and have avoided attention from homophobic audiences that would try and protest against the series which may have affected the release of Heesu in Class 2 and could affect the actors' careers. In other words, it could be down to understandable caution. My impression that this isn't done out of ill-will is reinforced with how Heesu in Class 2 is openly and explicitly showing that Heesu and Seungwon do have feelings as men toward other male characters, so it is acknowledging the queerness of the story and correctly adapting the characters' feelings. But it's still lame to say the least (how they're diverting the attention away from them as much as possible).

However, I still think that the series can be criticised thus far for the way it is giving far too much screentime to other elements than the queerness (when it has such as short run time), when the queerness is supposed to be the central aspect of the original story. Thus in a sense, masking the queerness as much as possible (so far) almost as though to satisfy a heteronormative audience, whilst not fully enraging the original fans of the story or a queer audience. At least it's much better than dramas adapted from queer manhwas/novels who completely erase the explicitly queer elements and I do really appreciate the ways in which Heesu in Class 2 is graciously depicting Heesu' feelings for Chanyoung explicity, showcasing his fear of being outed and his general experience with his queer identity (+Seungwon in episode 4 even admitting to his feelings for Heesu).

I also find it aggravating that the scenes between Seungwon and Heesu have been cut down in such a way where when Seungwon invites Heesu to eat chicken with him for example, then the scene gets cut (we don't see this interaction) and most of their interactions are shown in 'flashbacks' of Seungwon's perspective (and them being visually separate, both in terms of the shots - a lot of the time - but also in terms of the physical space + with rapid transitions into different short moments), whilst Chanyoung and Ji yu's relationship is always shown in the present moment, and often with them spending time physically close (and we stay with them in those moments).

Once again, maybe I'll be proven wrong (I want to be) in the coming episodes, and I understand that these episodes can still be considered to be the 'establishing' episodes, but I just wanted to express the hurt I felt for how the explicit queerness of stories are so often reduced, chopped up and sometimes even erased and how that reflects an exclusivity toward queerness. All in all, Heesu in Class 2 is otherwise really well acted, and I love the style of pacing that they use (with how dynamic the cuts are in general), the script is engaging, whilst the characters are endearing and fun to follow but it feels hollow not to focus on Seungwon and Heesu more, making the story as a whole feel lacking. I wonder if anyone feels the same way, and what I said is not at all in an attempt to disregard the effort and positive elements of this BL series; i'd be curious to know if anyone has similar or differing thoughts. And thank you for reading this far if you have