Liltsu

does anyone know if the second ep is dropping today (in 20 minutes like it says on the countdown) or if that's just the domestic release, and the international release will be tomorrow? because gagaoolala says it drops on the 12th

I'm probably gonna rant so nw if no one reads this :>. It's specifically about Yoonsoo and Go Young.

The way I saw it is that Yoonsoo in particular struggles with internalised homophobia, and he is not only well aware of it but it is the root of every one of his conscious decisions. To be more specific, when we first get introduced to him, the show signals to us that Yoonsoo is a very charismatic and observant person: he tells us later, but he basically observed from the get go that Go Young is gay, and was correct. So during their first meeting, every one of his actions are intentional ways to get Go Young's attention, starting from how he drinks from his cup, to using that as an excuse to "make up" for it and take him to a café. I think his apparent 'clumsiness' is more like an amusing act for him, and I don't mean this in a particularly negative or ill-intentioned way. Just that it solidifies how aware he is of the circumstances, and is excellent at then directing the situation in any way he wants. We see this notably when he starts 'trauma dumping'. Yet he wasn't talking about himself in that moment, rather, he was reciting Stephen King's novel called 'On Writing', and was waiting to see if Go Young would notice.

That's why we see the shift from Go Young's behaviour, from calling Yoonsoo a "narcissist he has no intention of getting involved with" and looking extremely fed up when he thinks Yoonsoo is trauma dumping, to having an epiphany, when he realises that Yoonsoo is stating lines from a book. That's when Go Young himself mentions "Stephen King", and starts smiling and playing along with Yoonsoo, and is why he starts to think of him as super attractive, not because of his appearance but because of his smoothness basically. Another aspect that proves Yoonsoo's awareness in this scene, is that, when you think about, Yoonsoo invited Go Young to the café, yet intentionally doesn't say anything, whilst Go Young tries to make polite conversation for an interaction he didn't even want to have. Then Yoonsoo plays the trick on him, and that catches Go Young's attention. You can only do that if you have a strong understanding of how people think and behave.

And this carries onto different aspects of their relationship. From my understanding, it is heavily implied that Yoonsoo came from a homophobic household (with how he often mentions that, in contrast, Go Young, seems to have been raised with "love" /has the face of someone who has been loved, because Yoonsoo wasn't). Moreover, about the research thing, which is tied to the colleagues he runs into in the parc, it's implied that the "activist" group he's a part of, is actually an actively homophobic activist group (the type that organises protests against Pride events in South Korea). So it's not that he was in a relationship with Go Young because he was studying him, as an outsider, but because his work revolves around homophobic rhetoric, and that is why Go Young has the flashback to his mum, who shares similarities with Yoonsoo. Otherwise, Go Young would have addressed the idea that Yoonsoo only dated him for research, but i don't believe that is the case.

To me, this whole episode is about the emotional violence of having people you care about, spew out hatred, essentially (homophobia is a form of violence), to you. That is what is hurtful (it's why these two episodes are actually my favourite of the whole series in hindsight, and hit me the hardest). That's why, to me, the most violent exchange between Go Young and Yoonsoo isn't even the fight scene or the other cruelities he said/did, it's the sentence where Yoonsoo says "I hope you meet a good man...or should i say, woman?", because although he is indeed playing the 'bad guy' to break things up, he's doing it in the most violent way: the cutting pain of subjecting someone who is queer to the most vile rhetoric that a queer person is indirectly exposed to in their every day life, but which is now personified as a direct, resurfacing, stabbing wound. I think that's why I thought the suicide was perfectly placed right after this altercation, because it's due to everything Go Young has gone through, but more subtly, it shows you just how vulnerable queer people can be, and how much strength it takes subconsciously and consciously, to live in an inherently heteronormative society, even if there is "progress" along the way.

I see Yoonsoo as someone who is very aware of this violence, as we see throughout their story, with how he calculates everything he does, especially when he's with Go Young. When you think about all the events from his perspective, from the start, Yoonsoo intentionally chooses food places that are associated more so with guy friends / friends hanging out platonically, and actively avoids places with romantic connotations (like fine dining), he also refers to the club they go into during halloween as "barbaric" and a place he wanted to get out of (because the kinds of clubs Go Young goes to have a more liberated and open 'gay culture', and that's no coincidence). I believe the reason why Yoonsoo even followed Go Young there, in the first place, was not random. It was a conscious choice to give into Go Young just a little bit, despite his meticulous approach and homophobia, because he has real feelings for Go Young earlier on. He's too calculative for him to not have realised where Go Young wanted to take him beforehand, and this transpires in other interactions, such as when they're in the parc, and he places his finger on top's of Go Young's hand, despite them being in public. His romantic feelings for Go Young are very real, and it was never just for research, but he has no intention of letting go of his ties to his background, and work.

So when it comes to the point where he can only choose one or the other in his life, esp when he realises that if he doesnt it'll only keep hurting Go Young, he picks the former. But most of his actions are him pretty much in full control of where the relationship is headed, and you see this in that one longer sensual scene, where he picks up, places, positions Go Young exactly where he wants him to be, and is also aggressive (revealing a little bit of his conflictedness regarding his identity), but is passionate (reflecting his intense feelings for Go Young). Ouf that was long but hopefully not bothersome and if anyone does read this, that it was somewhat insightful or enjoyable.

*SPOILERS* Just wanted to write some quick notes i jotted down, cause i binged the whole series yestefay until 4am even though i was sick (hahaha....).

One thing i wanted to highlight is how emotional intimacy is represented in each relationship the protagonist is in, which reflects the nature of the relationship:

-the first relationship: polite, diligent and earnest yet formal so distant, there is more emotional intimacy than physical but they are not on the same wavelength. This is then visually demonstrated by how we only see their first kiss but no other kiss or sex scene. The fact that the love interest of Go Young died from a car accident from speeding also implies that he died from passive suicidal ideation (potentially), and we see earlier on that he displays signs of dependence toward Go Young, and Go Young had different intentions to him (it's as though they couldnt "hear each other", be in the same timing with one another, which is mentioned by Go Young in saying that he was "too slow", and thought that he was "too fast" compared to his love interest.

-the second relationship: passionate yet aggressive, the only couple for which we see a lengthy sex scene, there is emotional intimacy and even more physical intimacy (hints at the later violence of the love interest, not physical violence but emotional violence in how he's revealed to write homophobic papers and is part of homophobic activist group)

-the third: emotional intimacy that surpasses physical intimacy -> we mainly see passionate kiss scenes and quick glimpses at the physicality of sex, because the sex is only a reflection of their love rather than proof of it (and this is shown by how its the only relationship where Go Young is said to have abstained from sex for months in the relationship whilst in a rut, whilst still very much loving Gyu Ho, showcasing even more the emotional resonance of that relationship + the way the memories of that relationship cross into future episodes after their relationship ended unlike previous love interests, signalling to the audience how Go Young still has feelings for Gyu Ho well after their relationship as we see flashbacks of their scenes as though they were in the present moment)

-the last couple/relationship: empty, lonely and distant -> they have a purely physical relationship based on thrill, boredom and loneliness and this is most heavily showcased by the fact that we neither ever see them kiss (no emotional intimacy), nor have sex (even the physical intimacy is just physical activity rather than intimacy)
-> the love interest acts as a shell of a person even to himself, and to Go Young, he is a shell of a person, barely ever present with him, if at all, and is only a weak and ghost-like vessel of a partner who is heavily overshadowed by the clear and vivid memories that Go Young reminisces of, of Gyu Ho which reappear as they visit Thailand together just like they had before.


Sorry if it's a bit messy, i left it quite unedited. I wanted to show a glimpse of how masterfully the series uses sex/kiss scenes (or the lack thereof at moments) to demonstrate that the relationships aren't just about male-male couples. They're human relationships, that are specific to the individuals involved.

thanks for letting me know <3

Does someone know if this is being released in 30 min on Netflix or is it that it will air 1h after it has aired on TVN ?

Tysm!

looking forward to it, ty!!

i'm touched by your compliment, thank you sm to you! (and fun to hear that you find my interpretations correct). I've never really used tumblr tbh so i don't really know how it works, but i'm flattered to read that you think so about what i wrote <3 makes me want to try tumblr out sometime too

awesome, tysm that's very cool! (the GIFs you chose are beautiful too)

I'm so pleased to get your response! Thank you for the thoughtful answer and i liked hearing your thoughts 😊

And same for Tong and May!! My interpretation of their relationship is very much similar to yours so far. To me, the scene where Tong first reveals to Joe the truth about Ming's family hints at Tong's own intentions. Tong assumes and accuses Joe to be hanging around Ming, and showing interest in dating Ming, because of 'ulterior motives' (money), which we know isn't the case for Joe (as we know he wasn't even aware of the fact). As such, Tong's assumption says more about himself than Joe. I believe he approached May because of such benefits and how it would stabilise as well as elevate his position in the industry. May definitely seems sincere and has genuine feelings toward Tong, and I think Tong just goes along with it, and acts as the classic "ideal" boyfriend, without necesssarily being in love himself. I genuinely believe Tong is more possessive and stimulated by Ming's involvement, almost in a sadistic way, where he gets pleasure from knowing how Ming gets emotionally affected by his decisions, which are most strongly shown when he prioritises May over him. This is why he plays such a game of push-and-pull with him. He wont reciprocate Ming's feelings/date him because he gets more excitement from the feeling of being yearned for, but if Ming shows any sign of detachment or redirected attention elsewhere, he'll immediately pull back on the reigns and feel threatened. The biggest proof of this is his perplexed reaction to seeing Ming kiss Joe in the bathroom, and very peculiarly, we don't see what he said to Ming right after, only that we know they were together/some form of interaction happened. So I really agree. Truly, Tong's relationship with May really has more to do with Ming, and then Tong's own standing, than May herself.

I'm also very curious to see the changes that Ming may have undergone in these two years. It's too early to say for sure, but from the little that's been hinted about his current life, makes me feel like he may have become more grounded, patient and gentle like he was in his emotionally intimate moments Joe before. But we shall see how everything goes down~

And ikr!! It's really satisfying to hear that someone else also fully believes that Ming was drawn to Joe's acting, it's hard to say it's even subtle, and it's beautiful! I really like that detail.


Thanks again for replying (i very much enjoyed reading it) and for liking my long 'essay' haha, much love💜

Thank you so much💕 im so glad to hear, and same i'm curious to see where the series goes

Thank you so much😊 and it's similar for me, i feel very much fond of Ming's character because of that complexity and his sympathetic qualities

That's really kind thank you! (And for taking the time to read). I haven't posted it it anywhere else but I'd be very happy for you to do that if you'd like (would love to have the link to any post if you do share it💓).

Probably an incoming unpopular opinion ahead (read with caution lol, disclaimer that I am not attempting to justifying Ming's wrongdoings to Joe, more so trying to understand for myself and anyone else why I find his character so interesting):

Am I the only one who doesn’t hate Ming, and wouldn’t consider it to be a sad ending if Ming and Joe ended up together? At least as of now, especially from what I’ve seen currently and how I can imagine the direction the rest of the series might take. Let me expand.


For context, I went into this drama not expecting very much, and felt extremely sceptical of the trope of the ‘stand-in’ it uses, because one of my pet peeves in romance dramas is the ‘transfer’ phenomenon. If you haven’t heard that term before, it’s basically a psychological term about how a person (let’s call them A) will ‘imprint’ on someone else (person B). So to have a ‘transfer’ regarding someone else, for example, would mean that person A might have liked a person in the past (person C), and then meet someone new (person B) who resembles that person (C) in some way, and purely because of that, person A starts to also like or believe that they genuinely like person B. The problem with transfers is that they typically are rooted in a person’s (A) unwillingness to let go of the past person, and don’t truly love/hate (whatever emotion it is) the new person (B). This drama, reverses that trope.


This will link to why I find Ming’s bond with Joe to be more genuine than I’ve seen be believed on here (just based on a few comments tbf). My theory is that, ironically, it was Tong all along that was Joe’s metaphorical stand-in from the start. Why? We see a short flashback of Ming going to the cinemas and seeing the ad/clip of ‘Tong’s’ back, doing a martial arts scene, but we only see his back. That very shot/scene is what made Ming feel entranced by Tong and motivated him to seek Tong out with his sister for an autograph. He even mentions it himself to Tong. However, I believe that the ‘back’ that Ming saw, was Joe’s and not Tong’s. Ming « fell in love » with Joe’s acting/aura/presence on the screen first, but mistook him for Tong who is the ‘known’ actor of the film he saw. So all along, his feelings for Tong are somewhat illusory, and obsessive. Tong, who in my opinion gets off of happily at the notion of someone being infatuated with him, simply strings Ming along (and uses him), as we’ve seen. In my opinion, Tong represents the side of Ming that was raised in a classist, materialistic family that rather obsesses about ‘spectacle’, in a way that harms Ming in the long-term. That kind of lifestyle or way of life makes him petty, distrustful, overtly and unreasonably jealous, and aggressive. Behaviours that manifest very evidently when Ming sees Joe with Sol, but particularly in correlation to scenes in which his affinity for Tong has been strengthened (Tong only sharpens the conditioning Ming has been raised through, that of being sceptical and always needing things to go his way, and fuels this, either by being in his direct company or feeding him seeds of doubt indirectly). Tong represents attachment and obsession but not love. Particularly the scene in which Ming renders Joe unconscious and keeps him captive is the most blatant example of Tong’s influence, which brings out all of the qualities of Ming that reflect the wealthy and entitled background he is born from and still lives off from.

Ming’s interest in Joe is different in my opinion, and the series carefully points to this in a nuanced way. If my theory is correct about Ming having been drawn to Joe first, rather than Tong, and the feelings that were initially meant for Joe came to be directed toward Tong (and became twisted due to that fact), we can assume that Ming’s feelings for Joe are more…instinctual. They awaken something in Ming. And to me this is perfectly shown in their first interactions: Ming hugs Joe from behind, believing he is Tong, but if my guess turns out to be true, he subconsciously went toward Joe and embraced him with the original feelings that he felt at the cinema (when he truly ‘first’ saw him), rather than the other way around, which the series makes us believe at first glance. Then, in their interactions after, Ming is consciously reluctant to open up to Joe (showcasing the walls he has up, even toward Tong), but is still intuitively interested in Joe, wants to be around him, and cares about what he is up to. In my opinion, he sets unfair and unequal conditions in their relationship at first because of the self-défense mechanism he has kept up (someone with his background would find it difficult to trust and be vulnerable with someone else easily). This is why the most crucial interactions between Joe and Ming, in my view, are the scenes at Joe’s home. We see that Joe had said that Ming had fulfilled HIS dream to come back to a lit home and with someone welcoming you back warmly. I believe this is something Ming has long craved as well for himself, and Joe expressing this, and being the way he is, makes Ming feel safe and allows him to become more open, more intimate, more honest, more ‘himself’.

I feel that Ming struggles to fully understand these sides of him, and has even more difficulty communicating it to others (especially Joe), but that his gentler moments show indeed the equal, and dare i say, even ‘healthy’ potential of this couple. We see this from the last scene of this episode. Instead of Ming indulging in luxuries for someone of his status, or succumbing to some kind of greed, he has pertained to what he has truly desired all along in his heart: a warm home, where he can lead an honest and loving life with the person who sees him past his social persona of the rich, pampered, entitled and obsessive kid. This is symbolised by the fact that he has continued to live in Joe’s home, waiting for him for the last two years, which reflects his commitment and earnestness which he had gradually developed for Joe, even before. I think what people get (understandably) confused or feel betrayed by, is the scene in which Joe realises he has been a ‘stand-in’ for Tong by Ming, especially during sex (because this is somewhat what Ming consciously believes for himself too). For me, I saw it more so as, on one level, the revelation of what I just mentioned about Ming’s prior conscious intention (which evidently is form of betrayal to Joe), and on another level, it is a defining moment of transition, where Joe is still somewhat clinging on to Tong (because of the feelings he first felt for him at the cinema, which could really be Joe again), but also clinging still to what he knows and about his way of going about things (through manipulation and violence).

So a transition from that, into the growing feelings, appreciation, and warmth Ming did start to exhibit at Joe’s house (the symbol of vulnerable space). We see this through Ming buying the couple mugs with THEIR names (Ming and Joe), or the meaningful moments of genuine happiness that Ming feels in the simple, non judgemental moments between the two of them. This is something his sister comments about, that seeing Ming with Joe is surprisingly pleasant because it is the fist time in a very long time since she has seen Ming happy and so smiley (this is one of the biggest external piece of evidence to the idea that Ming’s « feelings » for Tong have a very different nature to his feelings for Joe). And we see this very clearly in the scene in which Joe bought a watch to Ming (and which I believe we see him promote now two years later on the poster he is). That scene is extremely significant because it shows the shift and differences of Ming alone with Joe compared to with Tong or how he is used to being. The watch is a gift from Joe, who believes it to be the « top » watch in terms of ‘quality’ and price, something we see Ming ALREADY HAS (and doesn’t have particular personal feelings toward). The top watch he has reflects his status, his wealthy background and the expectations on him by others and himself (to be considered societally the ‘best’, but in a rather vain way). However, Joe’s watch isn’t the top watch in a societal, classist sense, but it holds more value to Ming because it represents Joe’s sincerity and that matters more to him. The watch, which is typically a common symbol of time, also reflects, in my opinion, the difference in how Ming spends his time. By taking Joe’s watch and wearing it, his way of using time is also more personal and sincere, wanting to lead a life of authentic connection with someone on the same wavelength as you. In his act of taking of his old watch, which was the ‘top watch’, Ming leaves behind his old lifestyle, or at least takes on more step toward exiting it (the life of vanity and falsehoods). So all these signs of Ming’s genuine interest, endearment and feelings of care for Joe are sprinkled there from the beginning, and the series deliberately is setting a constraint between his potential for warmth and healthy sincerely with the baggage he still has from his past through Tong and his family (something he both feels and is to some extent very much controlled by).


The series has really made me invested, and that has really been invigorating for me (as I binged the episodes today) because I haven’t really felt that as much with a lot of BL series lately - not that there aren’t don’t get me wrong, just that it feels like fewer have my engagement than usual. And to me, the series’ strength at this point (excluding the very good acting etc) is the writing, so I am very hopeful that for the parts of Ming that would require a form of redemption, or improvement, that the series would allow him to have that arc by the time that Joe and him supposedly get back together (if they do). In the case where my interpretation is close to the series’ intention, then i believe that although it doesn’t make the previous scenes justified, that it would be very much possible for Joe and Ming’s relationship to take on a healthier, more mature turn, where their relationship would become more patient, communicative and understanding, just like the interactions they shared in their own shared home.


I’ll probably end my train of thought here, but would really like to hear if anyone disagrees or agrees with my opinions, would be happy to hear from anyone hihi. Thank you to those who read this whole e s s a y, i’m appreciative of that :).

I really liked the premise of this story and the way some scenes were shot in the first half of the series with how intimate they felt. However, did others also feel underwhelmed by the ending, like they were waiting for something to happen and it didn't quite occur?

I realised as it was ending, watching our leads, that what bothered me throughout the series is how unresponsive Takashi's character seems to be. He's very meek, and doesn't express his feelings all that much. That's fine, as a character trait, but in this context, it felt like Miyata was battling and trying to keep their love alive by himself. To me, that was the point of their relationship at the beginning: that both misunderstood and would not be as willing to be vulnerable with one another. So the progress that I was expecting happened with Miyata's character. That's why he was such a joy to watch on screen, how he learned and changed, and reached out to Takashi first at the end. But to me, this happened partially one-sidedly. I say partially because I know that Takashi also expressed to his mother that he wouldn't take over the household, and wouldn't give up on his love. That is true, but in his interactions with Miyata himself, there seemed to have been no growth.

At present, to me, it's Miyata holding their relationship together like glue. With how they hinted at the way that Takashi would always hide his more vulnerable state, i was honestly hoping we'd get one of those 1 to 1 conversations that were so prevalent in the first half of the story, where they would talk earnestly. And as a climax, I was hoping that Takashi would cry in front of Miyata or open up his heart in some way about his regrets, his worries over the years, and his yearning. Yet that didn't occur and I thought that was a shame because it really stunted the series, and left it with a lack-luster taste. An impression akin to when we saw the two as highschoolers and it wasn't certain that they would be able to sustain a equal relationship with one another. So yeah, those are my thoughts. Was wondering if anyone agreed with my reasoning or not, leave a response, i'd be happy to see ;) and thx for anyone who read this far!

Ryang Eum edit: "For me, i only belong by your side"

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGeScT6Kf/

:>

Sure thing! Here’s a reminder :>

I'm glad it helped😊 i added a slight comment to my original post on the theme of fate that the series deals with too

Hi, it’s not stupid at all, i think they’re very valid questions since the series leaves a lot of things quite open ended or open to interpretation. I’ll try to answer them based on my own understanding, but apologies if i make any dire mistakes:

-only one person remembered him because the « god » of that world/the senior switched the temporary ‘writer’ to be yeowoon instead of myungha. I think, on a symbolic level, it’s supposed to represent how both of them, myungha and yeowoon, have a desire for the other to be happy (and how this happiness is dependent on their own choices, trying into the theme of whether fate exists/can be changed -> the final message of the series seems to lean into the notion that one's fate is in one's own hands), and also as a crucial signal to myungha that the reason why he could not sustain his relationships is because he did not love himself. This is also reinforced by the way that yeowoon represents someone that myungha closely identifies with, sees himself in, further insisting on the idea that his desire to make yeowoon happy at heart does show that he wishes he could make himself happy too.
Ps: technically, the manager(?) also remembers, but i believe it’s meant to show how the world at that point was sort of clunky and mismanaged, and also to guide yeowoon into remembering myungha (whilst still understanding how myungha is from a different world by seeing how sangwon and kyunghoon dont remember him).

-same logic as the previous answer.

-to answer this one i will have to answer your final question a the same time. Here we go: basically, from what i understood, Myungha had died, but got a final chance at life because he regained the desire to live and love. So he returns to his own world. However, Yeowoon is still in his world. The reason they can communicate, in my opinion, is because on a literal level in the story, the two worlds are connected. On a metaphorical level, it’s both symbolic of the bond people form with fictional characters, and specifically in this series, representative of how myungha finds parts of himself in yeowoon, so they share a unique connection (therefore they can call each other, reflecting how they are able to reach each other due to their strong feelings).

-so lastly, myungha and yeowoon are able to meet in the updated ‘real world’ because their two worlds converge into one! A few people pointed out how this is shown through the editing really wittily, because when they reunite, the frame style changes from how it was in the ‘game world’ to how they shot the scenes in the ‘real world’.

I hope that helps :)

Sangwon & Myungha edit (song: spit in my face)
Link : https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGerK2Uhq/