I kept hearing that this drama was pretty good and checked it out yesterday, now im caught up, and my god, 'pretty good' is such an understatement, this is a gem!! i really love it sm!
"I remember, every time you wore these gloves, you like to pretend to smile and think you're the coolest." - Babe about Charlie.
When i was making an edit on the last ep, i really liked the details in Babe's words about Charlie because i felt that, up until now in the series, although we see Babe and Charlie spending time together, i thought that we didn't get to really see in the story what it was that made Babe love Charlie. What it was about Charlie that made him love him so much as compared to Way or someone else he'd had a relationship with. I also thought Babe and Charlie's relationship was immature, especially more at the start (which i still think somewhat now). So getting to hear Babe's thoughts on what he noticed about Charlie that would endear him and make him adore him, really widens the perspective on their relationship. Even if it is just a detail, it does so much.
Just wanted to get some insight from other people who watch the show. I noticed that there was a conversation about The Sign on ’twitter’, and some people were calling out those who had previously complained about the imaginary sex scenes.
The point was being made that others shouldn’t be watching the series for the sexual scenes only, as the series is much more than just that. And whilst I agree with the point about how people shouldn’t slam down a series because they demand sex scenes (when it shouldn’t be a necessity for bl stories), i don’t agree with accusing anyone who criticises the imaginary scenes to be unreasonable. I think there is a distinction that needs to be made between faulting people who watch BL solely for sex (and who then complain when it’s not up to their standard or when there aren’t any such scenes) with people who are criticising these scenes for other reasons. I’m part of the latter. I really don’t mind if there aren’t any sex scenes or kiss scenes whatsoever (my favourite BL is literally ”Word of Honor”), but I don’t like the way The Sign used the imaginary scenes.
I mentioned on twitter that the reason for this, is because i find that the series itself uses sex scenes as bait to cheaply keep viewers watching. I say ’cheaply’, because they could have prefaced both scenes with a clear visual indicator that they were dreams (ex: showing that Tharn was already sleeping beforehand), etc. Because, ultimately, the way the scenes were implemented sort of took away from the impact the actual scene of intimacy had. I also thought it took away a lot of screen time that could have been used efficiently to develop other elements of the series; like explaining the mythology further or just giving us downtime moments with the main cast as a group. I think the imaginary scenes just added frustration and stalled the actual romantic development of the characters (especially with how long they were). So now, i find that Phaya and Tharn’s relationship was rushed.
I mean, think about it, Tharn was unyieldingly stubborn toward Phaya for 4 episodes, and refused to listen to him even when Phaya was clearly extremely distressed (which, btw, i found extremely out of character of Tharn given he’s been shown previously to be emotionally mature and empathetic). Then they get to sit down (without any real trigger, given the previous obstacles) and they open up to each other leading to the intimacy scene. I don’t really care much for how explicit or well shot, or not, it was, or even that there was one, it just felt empty. If it was so easy in the first place, the conversation would have happened in episode 5, which, through reflection, makes it seem even more like the conflict between them was dragged to an extreme. I say this as a person who usually really likes internal conflict a lot in stories. Otherwise, i really do like The Sign, i just think we should be able to be open to criticism toward the media. In any case, what do you guys think? Do you agree/disagree with me? Thanks for anyone who read this rant lol
Do we know for sure that the series will be 12 episodes? Im just a bit worried about the pace of the story, because they've really drawn out other elements (mainly of action) for the last few episodes and have quite seriously stunted the romance for a 12 ep series. Since we're already half-way through with so much to unravel, it might come across as though the romance will be wrapped up in the next few eps and might then be rushed or feel incomplete. The pace at which they're currently going would be perfect if the series was 20 episodes long, or at least 14/15, so im just wondering if there werent actually more (since it feels like it)? Unless the next few episodes end up being longer in and of themselves like the last episode which had a 5th part? Or maybe hopefully they'll really tidy up the loose threads seemlessly to develop the romance more (that would be difficult to pull off tho). Otherwise i really really like this series and hope the upcoming eps will live up to the premise
I agree! I think it's quite obvious (also ep4) but Bo Geol definitely gives up that he knows something. He knows…
True I’m so curious as to how they’ll explain that, and of course, i’m happy if Bogeol truly is Kiho as that does make for an interesting twist and that would make me invested to know more, but i’m just worried they wouldn’t be able to justify everything that has occurred so far if he is indeed him (esp as he clearly seems to have his memories intact). I replied to the first person who replied if you wanted to hear more of my perspective, if not, thank you for taking the time to read my first comment and replying :D
I beg to differ1. That is not Woohak's drone but the company's. Bogeol's also into that field. He does video editing…
hi! thanks for your response, I made a long reply to the first person who wrote back, but I responded whilst also countering/adding on to your points in mind (i refer to them and answer them with my own thoughts throughout), in case you were interested in reading <3 thank you for taking the time to write it out :)
While I haven’t ruled Woo-hak out as being Ki-ho, so far the clues we’ve been given and the points you’ve…
Thank you for writing down your thoughts so concisely and responding to my arguments! I found a lot of your statements quite convincing, that it did make me reconsider my arguments. Especially as previous observations I have made of Bogeol potentially being Kiho, which seemed less telling than the ones I had for Woohak being Kiho , now definitely hold more weight in my judgement.
However, there were also quite a few aspects in your counter arguments that I didn’t really agree with, so I’d like to touch on those to reinforce my belief as to why Woohak might still be Kiho over Bogeol.
I might also have phrased it misleadingly, but the monetary aspect I bring up that would link Woohak and Kiho, is more so linked to a narrative (and metaphorical) point of view than it is of the literal function of money. Kiho was anxious about money because he indeed needed it to run away. Let’s assume Woohak is in fact Kiho. He has lost his memories and is now part of a wealthy family, and has a stable job from which he gets a high income. Still, his ‘gag’ is his concern and amusing focus on money.
Narratively speaking, this could represent how Woohak as Kiho is still money-conscious, because although he has lost his memories, there is still perhaps an underlying anxiety or association he makes of himself to money. Perhaps I am also influenced by other works that do this. For instance, if you’ve seen One Piece, there is a character named Nami whose village was terrorised by pirates who end up killing her mother. She ends up making a deal with said pirates that if she is able to get a certain amount of money, she can buy the village’s freedom. Money is narratively shown to traumatise Nami, as money comes to represent a means of survival, entrapment and of ultimately, the end goal to freedom. Much later in the story, once she is freed, money is no longer a concern, but it actually becomes a ‘gag’ that she is obsessed with money, even though money is quite literally not a necessity for her anymore (she becomes a pirate herself). Still, thematically, money is allegorical of Nami’s freedom from her past. I believe, if Woohak is Kiho, that a similar arc has been narratively built. So these details can be a reflection of that.
Next, Woohak’s knowledge of the law could indeed very well be due to him being a reporter, but once again, it is an understated link you could make to the father. It wasn’t a point that was particularly emphasised as a way to connect him to Kiho either unlike other moments like when Mokha tells us he reminds her of him (so the law aspect is likely not a tool that the writer uses to trick us into convincing us it’s him), and yet that detail is still there. But true, that could very well still be a misleading factor that ends up simply being explained by his profession.
Regarding Woohak’s reaction to seeing Mokha for the first time, I am also of the opinion that he is quite indifferent to her the same way that Bogeol is, but my argument is that that is precisely why Woohak is more likely to be Kiho. Woohak’s memory is lacking, so his indifference makes sense. Bogeol’s doesn’t. And we do see Bogeol’s reaction to seeing Mokha for the first time: he sees Woohak hug her. You could argue that, at that point, Bogeol still hasn’t made the connection to her identity yet, and i agree. Only, despite the cut to the boat, Bogeol is way too calm, and continues to not only be calm, but irritated by Mokha down the line, and even that annoyance is in relation to his brother. In fact, a lot of Bogeol’s attention is centred around his brother and NOT Mokha. Such as when they’re on the boat. If Bogeol was truly Kiho, and was trying to conceal that for some reason or the other, he’d at least be looking at her silently, or we wouldn’t see much of him. Yet we do see him, and what we DO see is how he nonchalantly (not angrily, nor shakily) tells Woohak to stop recording her. Kiho gave up so much for Mokha and his encounter of her was life-changing. The experience of realising that someone, who meant so much to you, actually survived would show, even involuntarily, through body language: awe, distress, disbelief, immense joy, fascination, heartbreak, yearning. Bogeol displays none of that, and there would be little to support his underwhelming reaction later, given they once again found Mokha by accident. Meanwhile, Woohak’s reaction doesn’t matter at all, truly: whether he is fascinated by Mokha for whatever reason, or somewhat disinterested and distant (as he was in some ways at the beginning), it can all be justified by his memory loss. To me, Woohak’s kindness to Mokha is both indeed kindness and his desire to find out his true identity (even if that is not being “Kiho”), so I agree that it is not evidence of him being Kiho, but then the above only goes to show why Bogeol is even more unlikely to be him.
Another huge factor is this: Bogeol does not stop Woohak from reporting on Mokha being found. Neither is he particularly fazed when he finds out that Woohak ended up still reporting on it despite telling him not to. IF Bogeol was Kiho, he would know that by Woohak reporting on Mokha’s survival, it would give the father a clue as to how to find the real Kiho, because he would know that the father is aware of their relationship. In fact, if Bogeol was indeed Kiho, he would know how Kiho and Mokha are connected. Except he doesn’t. We know that Woohak tells him of the connection between Kiho and Mokha, and that still doesn’t set an alarm in Bogeol’s head about Woohak having publiscised her re-appearance. And that is because, precisely because he is not Kiho, he may not know that the father is aware of the connection between the two. Bogeol has been shown to be very protective of Woohak by staying firm in not revealing his identity to him. Regardless of who Kiho is, the father finding out information on Kiho would endanger both Bogeol and Woohak. And Bogeol, if he were Kiho, would also be aware that his father might not be able to physically recognise the real Kiho, so any guy floating around Mokha could be in danger (Woohak in this scenario). Bogeol would never risk that. So that would be a plot hole.
Regarding the technological aspect, it’s fair enough that the two brothers are indeed into technology, from which particular elements could be associated to Kiho. Only, Bogeol is a music producer, so he’d be more in charge of the recordings of the artists and recruitment. It’s not certain, and rather unlikely from what we’ve been shown of the scope of his professional life, that he would be dealing with video editing. So his potential identity as Kiho would more so be within the rationale that he’d become a music producer to know about other artists, and keep an eye on whether Mokha would have become an artist herself if she survived. Woohak on the other hand is a reporter, but he films footage himself the way that Kiho would, and it’s also implied that he therefore edited the final product of him documenting on Mokha. If he is Kiho, this makes for a pretty visceral parallel to when he filmed and editing Mokha in the past.
I saw someone else comment that you could explain that Woohak copies a lot of what Bogeol does, and that that’s why Mokha said Woohak reminded her of Kiho (even just from the perspective of style, mannerisms or hobbies), but I’d like to point out that what lead Mokha to make that comparison is that Woohak kept on asking Mokha: “and then?”, regarding her future plans, to which Mokha shares her thoughts on how she strives to live in the present moment. Firstly, there’s an immediate striking resemblance to the scene in which Kiho kept on asking “and then?” To Mokha from the past, when she was about to sing to him for the first time.
-> From this, we can psychologically point out that both Woohak and Kiho have a conscious/subconscious anxiety about the future. Woohak may have lost his conscious memories of the past, but one’s worries (which are, in psychoanalysis, tied to the deep part of the psyche regardless of if you retain memories of a particular trigger or not) are unique to one individual. One can hardly excuse that as another moment in which Woohak copies his brother, especially as it is actually a point of distinction between the two: Bogeol tells Woohak to forget his past, and live in the present moment. Whereas Woohak doesn’t want to, and is persistently thinking about his own past and future, which links back to how Woohak’s concerns is projected through his question to Mokha (similarly to how Kiho in the past projected onto Mokha).
It was ultimately when Woohak comments on Mokha by using the word “lack” that is the final trigger (but in continuity to the previous dialogue) that made Mokha feel like Woohak reminded her of Kiho. So partially and dominantly, it is language (which is deeply linked to the subconscious) the catalyst to the comparison, and as I mentioned, they are independent from Bogeol entirely.
Finally, if Bogeol is indeed Kiho, there are bigger loopholes to the story than there are if Woohak was Kiho:
-if Bogeol is Kiho, then it’s going to be hard to make us believe that the family has two brothers with one brother who has amnesia for a large part of his life and changed his identity/name(Woohak) and the other that just happens to have also changed his identity into a secret one. If Bogeol is Kiho, there is no other figure in the story that would explain Woohak’s need for a change of identity. The father is the sole perpetrator left, yet it’s not even a dispute that Woohak’s name is indeed not his real one. The father clearly does not know how how to even find Kiho prior to Mokha’s re-appearance, so changing both of their identities is not necessary. And even if we assume that pre-divorce, the father also assaulted Woohak as his ‘other son’, to explain why Bogeol would feel the need to have Woohak change his identity, then surely the father would be looking for the both of them, but he isn’t.
Narratively, if Woohak had simply had some kind of amnesiac incident, that could be grounds for why he does not know Bogeol’s ‘true’ identity as Kiho, and that would explain why they wrote his character in that way. Only, that solely works if Woohak is his true name/identity. Only, it’s not even a debate that Woohak is a false name, otherwise Bogeol would be insisting on that, but instead, we come into the story, already understanding that there is a mutual awareness between Bogeol and Woohak that the latter actually has a different identity. So Woohak being Kiho would make more sense. If Bogeol is Kiho, then who is Woohak? There is no one else in the story that has been covered. Moreover, when Kiho’s old friend finds out the father is going to use Mokha to find Kiho, their immediate reaction is to try and reach out to Mokha, and not Kiho. Meaning they’ve lost contact with him or don’t know who he goes by anymore, which again, makes more sense if Woohak is in fact Kiho. But if Bogeol is Kiho, and remembers everything, then having his old friends (who are good-intentioned) as contacts would actually be a clever way to have hold on his father’s mode of investigation and next steps. If he is Kiho, he is being far too careless.
So once again, there are quite a few significant loopholes at the moment. Now let’s consider the opposite perspective: the potential loopholes of the story at present, if Woohak is indeed Kiho. Why did Bogeol react to Mokha singing in the way he did and why did he have to cover up his face in front of the father when he saved Mokha? Whilst they could end up still being loopholes, at least these aspects can be explained more believably than the loopholes at present for the theory of Bogeol being Kiho. Here are some logical assumptions we can make:
1. Bogeol covers his face (in the case where he is not Kiho), because, if the father recognises him and investigates him (as he is a policeman, and Bogeol is probably aware of how much knowledge he has), then it could lead to the father figuring out that Woohak is Kiho. That would endanger Woohak/Kiho, and as we know, Bogeol is doing everything he can to prevent that. Speaking of which, Bogeol doesn’t show fear toward the father compared to Woohak, once again, Bogeol takes on the role of a protector -> both of Mokha and especially Woohak, rather than the one at fear of being brutalised by “his” father.
2. He reacts to Mokha singing because he realises that she was the one that sang in the stead of Ran Joo, so him recruiting Ran Joo on the show puts him in a very wobbly position. That and he could be enamoured by her when he was previously annoyed by her being an “inconvenience” to Woohak (he really seems to see her as a mere threat to Woohak’s safety, I think that is one of the most telling aspects that he is not Kiho.)
What do you think? Sorry for the long rant, I just wanted to open more discussion around the topic and hear whether you agree/disagree with my added points.
Why i've thought Kiho is Woohak and not Bogeol since the beginning:
1. Kiho has been shown to be really drawn to technology and means of recording (and documenting) the abuse he's faced as a form of escape (and perhaps dissociation even). He had the newest phone for the time, a digital camera (literally recording the domestic violence he experienced), printed photos of his bruises, had books on editing and computers to edit videos so well, that his friend had bragged that they made his grandmother look like a celebrity.
-> Similarly, Woonhak's relationship to technology is made very apparent: Woonhak finds Mokha with a literal DRONE, and he is a professional reporter (someone who documents on other people's lives).
2. Woonhak and Kiho's focus on money. Both express a fixation on prices. Such as when the drone gets caught by Mokha, Woonhak is more concerned about the damage to the drone because it is costly than in Mokha (even as a joke). And this aspect is accentuated frequently in the series. In comparison, Kiho's first introduction is cemented around the understanding that he is seemingly "stingy", when he demanded 1000 won for his phone to be used by Mokha. The same way that the figure of Yoon RanJoo in Mokha's life seems like a superficial interest of hers at first, Kiho's interest in money, causing him to appear 'stingy", is actually a symbol of freedom (Mokha -> fame = difficult to interact with = untouchable. Kiho/Woonhak -> money = monetary means to flee anywhere = untouchable)
2. Woonhak knows a lot about the law as we see when he confronts the restaurant owners who were spouting lies to Mokha. Kiho's dad was a cop. It wouldnt be strange of Woonhak, if he truly is Kiho, would know the law in and out, given his attempts to escape his father at all costs (he would have to be aware of the ways in which the police use law abiding methods to deal with run away kids). Not to mention how law works on domestically abused teens.
3. Woonhak lost his memory AND Mokha instinctually is reminded of Kiho in his presence, when she didnt when she was with Bogeol. The coincidence of Woonhak losing his memories, whilst Bogeol continuously refuses to reveal Woonhak's true identity is too on the nose. Especially with the likeness that Mokha recognised. Let's say Bogeol really is Kiho, then the series would seriously need to find ways to justify the correlations above in a believable manner, which seems rather far-fetched given the info we have.
4. Bogeol was not that surprised in seeing Mokha. Unlike Woonhak who quite genuinely lost all his memories from his time with Mokha, Bogeol hasnt. And he seems all too composed and even indifferent in their first encounters, as though she were a stranger. Sure, Kiho was quite poker-faced when they first met, but given what occurred later, he was powerfully affected by her disappearance. He wouldn't be so calm at the sight of finding the one person who understood his pain, whom he could have died for, for whom he hoped to find again so desperately. Not to mention that we KNOW for certain that neither Woonhak or Bogeol (or anyone in the world for that matter) had a clue that Mokha survived and was on that island, so this is also not a case where Bogeol would have seen the news beforehand and then faked indifference upon their reunion. Both of them are there when they find Mokha and see her for the first time. (Also quite telling that Mokha hugs Woonhak instead of Bogeol, which is usually a clue by the producers, ofc it could seem too obvious but still).
Woonhak on the other hand has been quite affected by certain situations in which he has been with Mokha in: such as when hearing his name for the first time at Mokha's old restaurant/house, when seeing the post-it in Kiho's room, and now when he saw Kiho's dad (the flashbacks).
I also saw some people mention that they are certain Bogeol is Kiho because of the fact that he bought Mokha shoes. Only, from what little I know about korean culture, the significance of buying shoes to someone who is vulnerable, is actually quite common, and even a predictable formalith. Bogeol handing the shoes to Mokha is reminiscent to Mokha on what Kiho told her before they parted but only because they used to be what she needed in order to be symbolically rescued, but they HAPPEN to be what she needs when she is literally rescued 15 years later from a stranded island. The gesture doesn't mean anything other than being an act of kindness from Bogeol's pov. I watch social experiments from various countries and i would see clips of koreans locals helping the "actor" involved by buying the person cheap new shoes from the nearest shop if they saw that the person didnt have any, or who was struggling without some.
I just think Bogeol knows a lot and might have actually had some kind of interaction with Mokha or Ran Joo before (it is true, that it is suspicious of Ran Joo to have mentioned feeling like she had seen him before, but with the above mentioned, it's too unlikely).
This show proves why it's wrong to make assumptions based on a show's promotional descriptions. Because I went…
I really like your observations and how you’ve phrased them so fittingly! Thank you for the insights ^^ I’d actually penned the protagonist as a cynic myself but your description of him as a nihilist makes so much more sense, especially given that i couldn’t quite put my finger on what it was that made him so unique in my eyes in his ‘cynicism’ (because other cynical characters that i know of felt like they had a different underlying foundation to their mentality, now i get why).
And i completely agree with the dry humor there. It’s amusing to see that the angel is more of an observer, only expressing himself (bluntly at that) when he feels the need to, but otherwise acts as a companion to the protagonist (much like a traditional guardian angel) without imposing any expectations on him.
Interestingly, in that sense, the protagonist and angel are both commentators in their own right in the narrative. The former in an almost dissociative way, as though looking at his own life from the angle of a passive omniscient narrator. The latter (the angel) doubling that but by actually being a third person witness to his life, ‘confirming’ the facts of Koki’s life. So the aspect of the ‘companion’, even at this early stage, already transcends the function of simply accompanying another through one’s presence, but actually connecting with the person (Koki) on this psychological, emotive level. As though understanding his soul’s language.
I think that’s why when the angel clarifies their thoughts and tells Koki “you are so kind”, it truly touches him, because until then, the angel’s commentary seemed to closely mirror Koki’s own inner voice, as well as the instilled ‘assumed’, inner voices of others (like his sarcastic reaction to the manager bleeding out, or even his assumption of what the angel was saying beforehand). Yet, when the angel rectifies what they meant, it broke through to Koki, as though piercing through that inner voice of his that interprets others’ words and thoughts from the most cynical/nihilist lens to avoid feeling hurt. I like the storytelling in this a lot as you can tell.
Not sure what you think?
Thank you for the recommendation, i didn’t know that about Koki’s actor at all, so that’s a pleasant surprise to say the least! I think i might check it out for myself.
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Link : https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGerK2Uhq/
(yes i made an edit and am sneakily inserting it here) https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGerWCHGk/
https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGeMW2RHD/
When i was making an edit on the last ep, i really liked the details in Babe's words about Charlie because i felt that, up until now in the series, although we see Babe and Charlie spending time together, i thought that we didn't get to really see in the story what it was that made Babe love Charlie. What it was about Charlie that made him love him so much as compared to Way or someone else he'd had a relationship with. I also thought Babe and Charlie's relationship was immature, especially more at the start (which i still think somewhat now). So getting to hear Babe's thoughts on what he noticed about Charlie that would endear him and make him adore him, really widens the perspective on their relationship. Even if it is just a detail, it does so much.
Here's the Charlie x Babe edit i made if anyone would be curious to see ^^: https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGeMG3ywJ/
https://vm.tiktok.com/ZGeMmnWRR/
(Warning: Angst)
The point was being made that others shouldn’t be watching the series for the sexual scenes only, as the series is much more than just that. And whilst I agree with the point about how people shouldn’t slam down a series because they demand sex scenes (when it shouldn’t be a necessity for bl stories), i don’t agree with accusing anyone who criticises the imaginary scenes to be unreasonable. I think there is a distinction that needs to be made between faulting people who watch BL solely for sex (and who then complain when it’s not up to their standard or when there aren’t any such scenes) with people who are criticising these scenes for other reasons. I’m part of the latter. I really don’t mind if there aren’t any sex scenes or kiss scenes whatsoever (my favourite BL is literally ”Word of Honor”), but I don’t like the way The Sign used the imaginary scenes.
I mentioned on twitter that the reason for this, is because i find that the series itself uses sex scenes as bait to cheaply keep viewers watching. I say ’cheaply’, because they could have prefaced both scenes with a clear visual indicator that they were dreams (ex: showing that Tharn was already sleeping beforehand), etc. Because, ultimately, the way the scenes were implemented sort of took away from the impact the actual scene of intimacy had. I also thought it took away a lot of screen time that could have been used efficiently to develop other elements of the series; like explaining the mythology further or just giving us downtime moments with the main cast as a group. I think the imaginary scenes just added frustration and stalled the actual romantic development of the characters (especially with how long they were). So now, i find that Phaya and Tharn’s relationship was rushed.
I mean, think about it, Tharn was unyieldingly stubborn toward Phaya for 4 episodes, and refused to listen to him even when Phaya was clearly extremely distressed (which, btw, i found extremely out of character of Tharn given he’s been shown previously to be emotionally mature and empathetic). Then they get to sit down (without any real trigger, given the previous obstacles) and they open up to each other leading to the intimacy scene. I don’t really care much for how explicit or well shot, or not, it was, or even that there was one, it just felt empty. If it was so easy in the first place, the conversation would have happened in episode 5, which, through reflection, makes it seem even more like the conflict between them was dragged to an extreme. I say this as a person who usually really likes internal conflict a lot in stories. Otherwise, i really do like The Sign, i just think we should be able to be open to criticism toward the media. In any case, what do you guys think? Do you agree/disagree with me? Thanks for anyone who read this rant lol
However, there were also quite a few aspects in your counter arguments that I didn’t really agree with, so I’d like to touch on those to reinforce my belief as to why Woohak might still be Kiho over Bogeol.
I might also have phrased it misleadingly, but the monetary aspect I bring up that would link Woohak and Kiho, is more so linked to a narrative (and metaphorical) point of view than it is of the literal function of money. Kiho was anxious about money because he indeed needed it to run away. Let’s assume Woohak is in fact Kiho. He has lost his memories and is now part of a wealthy family, and has a stable job from which he gets a high income. Still, his ‘gag’ is his concern and amusing focus on money.
Narratively speaking, this could represent how Woohak as Kiho is still money-conscious, because although he has lost his memories, there is still perhaps an underlying anxiety or association he makes of himself to money. Perhaps I am also influenced by other works that do this. For instance, if you’ve seen One Piece, there is a character named Nami whose village was terrorised by pirates who end up killing her mother. She ends up making a deal with said pirates that if she is able to get a certain amount of money, she can buy the village’s freedom. Money is narratively shown to traumatise Nami, as money comes to represent a means of survival, entrapment and of ultimately, the end goal to freedom. Much later in the story, once she is freed, money is no longer a concern, but it actually becomes a ‘gag’ that she is obsessed with money, even though money is quite literally not a necessity for her anymore (she becomes a pirate herself). Still, thematically, money is allegorical of Nami’s freedom from her past. I believe, if Woohak is Kiho, that a similar arc has been narratively built. So these details can be a reflection of that.
Next, Woohak’s knowledge of the law could indeed very well be due to him being a reporter, but once again, it is an understated link you could make to the father. It wasn’t a point that was particularly emphasised as a way to connect him to Kiho either unlike other moments like when Mokha tells us he reminds her of him (so the law aspect is likely not a tool that the writer uses to trick us into convincing us it’s him), and yet that detail is still there. But true, that could very well still be a misleading factor that ends up simply being explained by his profession.
Regarding Woohak’s reaction to seeing Mokha for the first time, I am also of the opinion that he is quite indifferent to her the same way that Bogeol is, but my argument is that that is precisely why Woohak is more likely to be Kiho. Woohak’s memory is lacking, so his indifference makes sense. Bogeol’s doesn’t. And we do see Bogeol’s reaction to seeing Mokha for the first time: he sees Woohak hug her. You could argue that, at that point, Bogeol still hasn’t made the connection to her identity yet, and i agree. Only, despite the cut to the boat, Bogeol is way too calm, and continues to not only be calm, but irritated by Mokha down the line, and even that annoyance is in relation to his brother. In fact, a lot of Bogeol’s attention is centred around his brother and NOT Mokha. Such as when they’re on the boat. If Bogeol was truly Kiho, and was trying to conceal that for some reason or the other, he’d at least be looking at her silently, or we wouldn’t see much of him. Yet we do see him, and what we DO see is how he nonchalantly (not angrily, nor shakily) tells Woohak to stop recording her. Kiho gave up so much for Mokha and his encounter of her was life-changing. The experience of realising that someone, who meant so much to you, actually survived would show, even involuntarily, through body language: awe, distress, disbelief, immense joy, fascination, heartbreak, yearning. Bogeol displays none of that, and there would be little to support his underwhelming reaction later, given they once again found Mokha by accident. Meanwhile, Woohak’s reaction doesn’t matter at all, truly: whether he is fascinated by Mokha for whatever reason, or somewhat disinterested and distant (as he was in some ways at the beginning), it can all be justified by his memory loss.
To me, Woohak’s kindness to Mokha is both indeed kindness and his desire to find out his true identity (even if that is not being “Kiho”), so I agree that it is not evidence of him being Kiho, but then the above only goes to show why Bogeol is even more unlikely to be him.
Another huge factor is this: Bogeol does not stop Woohak from reporting on Mokha being found. Neither is he particularly fazed when he finds out that Woohak ended up still reporting on it despite telling him not to. IF Bogeol was Kiho, he would know that by Woohak reporting on Mokha’s survival, it would give the father a clue as to how to find the real Kiho, because he would know that the father is aware of their relationship. In fact, if Bogeol was indeed Kiho, he would know how Kiho and Mokha are connected. Except he doesn’t. We know that Woohak tells him of the connection between Kiho and Mokha, and that still doesn’t set an alarm in Bogeol’s head about Woohak having publiscised her re-appearance. And that is because, precisely because he is not Kiho, he may not know that the father is aware of the connection between the two. Bogeol has been shown to be very protective of Woohak by staying firm in not revealing his identity to him. Regardless of who Kiho is, the father finding out information on Kiho would endanger both Bogeol and Woohak. And Bogeol, if he were Kiho, would also be aware that his father might not be able to physically recognise the real Kiho, so any guy floating around Mokha could be in danger (Woohak in this scenario). Bogeol would never risk that. So that would be a plot hole.
Regarding the technological aspect, it’s fair enough that the two brothers are indeed into technology, from which particular elements could be associated to Kiho. Only, Bogeol is a music producer, so he’d be more in charge of the recordings of the artists and recruitment. It’s not certain, and rather unlikely from what we’ve been shown of the scope of his professional life, that he would be dealing with video editing. So his potential identity as Kiho would more so be within the rationale that he’d become a music producer to know about other artists, and keep an eye on whether Mokha would have become an artist herself if she survived. Woohak on the other hand is a reporter, but he films footage himself the way that Kiho would, and it’s also implied that he therefore edited the final product of him documenting on Mokha. If he is Kiho, this makes for a pretty visceral parallel to when he filmed and editing Mokha in the past.
I saw someone else comment that you could explain that Woohak copies a lot of what Bogeol does, and that that’s why Mokha said Woohak reminded her of Kiho (even just from the perspective of style, mannerisms or hobbies), but I’d like to point out that what lead Mokha to make that comparison is that Woohak kept on asking Mokha: “and then?”, regarding her future plans, to which Mokha shares her thoughts on how she strives to live in the present moment. Firstly, there’s an immediate striking resemblance to the scene in which Kiho kept on asking “and then?” To Mokha from the past, when she was about to sing to him for the first time.
-> From this, we can psychologically point out that both Woohak and Kiho have a conscious/subconscious anxiety about the future. Woohak may have lost his conscious memories of the past, but one’s worries (which are, in psychoanalysis, tied to the deep part of the psyche regardless of if you retain memories of a particular trigger or not) are unique to one individual. One can hardly excuse that as another moment in which Woohak copies his brother, especially as it is actually a point of distinction between the two: Bogeol tells Woohak to forget his past, and live in the present moment. Whereas Woohak doesn’t want to, and is persistently thinking about his own past and future, which links back to how Woohak’s concerns is projected through his question to Mokha (similarly to how Kiho in the past projected onto Mokha).
It was ultimately when Woohak comments on Mokha by using the word “lack” that is the final trigger (but in continuity to the previous dialogue) that made Mokha feel like Woohak reminded her of Kiho. So partially and dominantly, it is language (which is deeply linked to the subconscious) the catalyst to the comparison, and as I mentioned, they are independent from Bogeol entirely.
Finally, if Bogeol is indeed Kiho, there are bigger loopholes to the story than there are if Woohak was Kiho:
-if Bogeol is Kiho, then it’s going to be hard to make us believe that the family has two brothers with one brother who has amnesia for a large part of his life and changed his identity/name(Woohak) and the other that just happens to have also changed his identity into a secret one. If Bogeol is Kiho, there is no other figure in the story that would explain Woohak’s need for a change of identity. The father is the sole perpetrator left, yet it’s not even a dispute that Woohak’s name is indeed not his real one. The father clearly does not know how how to even find Kiho prior to Mokha’s re-appearance, so changing both of their identities is not necessary. And even if we assume that pre-divorce, the father also assaulted Woohak as his ‘other son’, to explain why Bogeol would feel the need to have Woohak change his identity, then surely the father would be looking for the both of them, but he isn’t.
Narratively, if Woohak had simply had some kind of amnesiac incident, that could be grounds for why he does not know Bogeol’s ‘true’ identity as Kiho, and that would explain why they wrote his character in that way. Only, that solely works if Woohak is his true name/identity. Only, it’s not even a debate that Woohak is a false name, otherwise Bogeol would be insisting on that, but instead, we come into the story, already understanding that there is a mutual awareness between Bogeol and Woohak that the latter actually has a different identity. So Woohak being Kiho would make more sense. If Bogeol is Kiho, then who is Woohak? There is no one else in the story that has been covered. Moreover, when Kiho’s old friend finds out the father is going to use Mokha to find Kiho, their immediate reaction is to try and reach out to Mokha, and not Kiho. Meaning they’ve lost contact with him or don’t know who he goes by anymore, which again, makes more sense if Woohak is in fact Kiho. But if Bogeol is Kiho, and remembers everything, then having his old friends (who are good-intentioned) as contacts would actually be a clever way to have hold on his father’s mode of investigation and next steps. If he is Kiho, he is being far too careless.
So once again, there are quite a few significant loopholes at the moment. Now let’s consider the opposite perspective: the potential loopholes of the story at present, if Woohak is indeed Kiho. Why did Bogeol react to Mokha singing in the way he did and why did he have to cover up his face in front of the father when he saved Mokha? Whilst they could end up still being loopholes, at least these aspects can be explained more believably than the loopholes at present for the theory of Bogeol being Kiho. Here are some logical assumptions we can make:
1. Bogeol covers his face (in the case where he is not Kiho), because, if the father recognises him and investigates him (as he is a policeman, and Bogeol is probably aware of how much knowledge he has), then it could lead to the father figuring out that Woohak is Kiho. That would endanger Woohak/Kiho, and as we know, Bogeol is doing everything he can to prevent that. Speaking of which, Bogeol doesn’t show fear toward the father compared to Woohak, once again, Bogeol takes on the role of a protector -> both of Mokha and especially Woohak, rather than the one at fear of being brutalised by “his” father.
2. He reacts to Mokha singing because he realises that she was the one that sang in the stead of Ran Joo, so him recruiting Ran Joo on the show puts him in a very wobbly position. That and he could be enamoured by her when he was previously annoyed by her being an “inconvenience” to Woohak (he really seems to see her as a mere threat to Woohak’s safety, I think that is one of the most telling aspects that he is not Kiho.)
What do you think? Sorry for the long rant, I just wanted to open more discussion around the topic and hear whether you agree/disagree with my added points.
1. Kiho has been shown to be really drawn to technology and means of recording (and documenting) the abuse he's faced as a form of escape (and perhaps dissociation even). He had the newest phone for the time, a digital camera (literally recording the domestic violence he experienced), printed photos of his bruises, had books on editing and computers to edit videos so well, that his friend had bragged that they made his grandmother look like a celebrity.
-> Similarly, Woonhak's relationship to technology is made very apparent: Woonhak finds Mokha with a literal DRONE, and he is a professional reporter (someone who documents on other people's lives).
2. Woonhak and Kiho's focus on money. Both express a fixation on prices. Such as when the drone gets caught by Mokha, Woonhak is more concerned about the damage to the drone because it is costly than in Mokha (even as a joke). And this aspect is accentuated frequently in the series. In comparison, Kiho's first introduction is cemented around the understanding that he is seemingly "stingy", when he demanded 1000 won for his phone to be used by Mokha. The same way that the figure of Yoon RanJoo in Mokha's life seems like a superficial interest of hers at first, Kiho's interest in money, causing him to appear 'stingy", is actually a symbol of freedom (Mokha -> fame = difficult to interact with = untouchable. Kiho/Woonhak -> money = monetary means to flee anywhere = untouchable)
2. Woonhak knows a lot about the law as we see when he confronts the restaurant owners who were spouting lies to Mokha. Kiho's dad was a cop. It wouldnt be strange of Woonhak, if he truly is Kiho, would know the law in and out, given his attempts to escape his father at all costs (he would have to be aware of the ways in which the police use law abiding methods to deal with run away kids). Not to mention how law works on domestically abused teens.
3. Woonhak lost his memory AND Mokha instinctually is reminded of Kiho in his presence, when she didnt when she was with Bogeol. The coincidence of Woonhak losing his memories, whilst Bogeol continuously refuses to reveal Woonhak's true identity is too on the nose. Especially with the likeness that Mokha recognised. Let's say Bogeol really is Kiho, then the series would seriously need to find ways to justify the correlations above in a believable manner, which seems rather far-fetched given the info we have.
4. Bogeol was not that surprised in seeing Mokha. Unlike Woonhak who quite genuinely lost all his memories from his time with Mokha, Bogeol hasnt. And he seems all too composed and even indifferent in their first encounters, as though she were a stranger. Sure, Kiho was quite poker-faced when they first met, but given what occurred later, he was powerfully affected by her disappearance. He wouldn't be so calm at the sight of finding the one person who understood his pain, whom he could have died for, for whom he hoped to find again so desperately. Not to mention that we KNOW for certain that neither Woonhak or Bogeol (or anyone in the world for that matter) had a clue that Mokha survived and was on that island, so this is also not a case where Bogeol would have seen the news beforehand and then faked indifference upon their reunion. Both of them are there when they find Mokha and see her for the first time. (Also quite telling that Mokha hugs Woonhak instead of Bogeol, which is usually a clue by the producers, ofc it could seem too obvious but still).
Woonhak on the other hand has been quite affected by certain situations in which he has been with Mokha in: such as when hearing his name for the first time at Mokha's old restaurant/house, when seeing the post-it in Kiho's room, and now when he saw Kiho's dad (the flashbacks).
I also saw some people mention that they are certain Bogeol is Kiho because of the fact that he bought Mokha shoes. Only, from what little I know about korean culture, the significance of buying shoes to someone who is vulnerable, is actually quite common, and even a predictable formalith. Bogeol handing the shoes to Mokha is reminiscent to Mokha on what Kiho told her before they parted but only because they used to be what she needed in order to be symbolically rescued, but they HAPPEN to be what she needs when she is literally rescued 15 years later from a stranded island. The gesture doesn't mean anything other than being an act of kindness from Bogeol's pov. I watch social experiments from various countries and i would see clips of koreans locals helping the "actor" involved by buying the person cheap new shoes from the nearest shop if they saw that the person didnt have any, or who was struggling without some.
I just think Bogeol knows a lot and might have actually had some kind of interaction with Mokha or Ran Joo before (it is true, that it is suspicious of Ran Joo to have mentioned feeling like she had seen him before, but with the above mentioned, it's too unlikely).
What do you guys think?
And i completely agree with the dry humor there. It’s amusing to see that the angel is more of an observer, only expressing himself (bluntly at that) when he feels the need to, but otherwise acts as a companion to the protagonist (much like a traditional guardian angel) without imposing any expectations on him.
Interestingly, in that sense, the protagonist and angel are both commentators in their own right in the narrative. The former in an almost dissociative way, as though looking at his own life from the angle of a passive omniscient narrator. The latter (the angel) doubling that but by actually being a third person witness to his life, ‘confirming’ the facts of Koki’s life. So the aspect of the ‘companion’, even at this early stage, already transcends the function of simply accompanying another through one’s presence, but actually connecting with the person (Koki) on this psychological, emotive level. As though understanding his soul’s language.
I think that’s why when the angel clarifies their thoughts and tells Koki “you are so kind”, it truly touches him, because until then, the angel’s commentary seemed to closely mirror Koki’s own inner voice, as well as the instilled ‘assumed’, inner voices of others (like his sarcastic reaction to the manager bleeding out, or even his assumption of what the angel was saying beforehand). Yet, when the angel rectifies what they meant, it broke through to Koki, as though piercing through that inner voice of his that interprets others’ words and thoughts from the most cynical/nihilist lens to avoid feeling hurt. I like the storytelling in this a lot as you can tell.
Not sure what you think?
Thank you for the recommendation, i didn’t know that about Koki’s actor at all, so that’s a pleasant surprise to say the least! I think i might check it out for myself.
https://www.tiktok.com/@bilily.bts/video/7277697297289350432?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=mobile&sender_web_id=7277699902795957792
Waiting for the next ep....