Yes, Wonda and I are MDL friends....I loved some of her earlier comments/reviews and we became friends....
As to our approaches, off course we are different people, so we would be expectedly having different approaches, but I do agree to a lot of what she is saying, as you would have already made out.
That does not necessarily make me closed to your thoughts, or a conversation with you. I must admit at the same time that I do sense distinct trans phobia in the comments that I see here from you. To let you know that this is not a put down either, I will admit here that many moons ago, I also had borderline transphobia, something that I could gradually process, understand and finally graduate out of, mostly thanks to some really kind trans, gay and non-binary individuals who helped me through it, with a lot of patience.
Last word, hatred, even though we need it often times to trigger us in the right direction, it mostly pulls us down, makes us weaker, and more miserable. No matter how different our opinions, priorities and realities are, I strongly believe we need to work against it, and not with it.
Firstly, my sincere apologies for misgendering and calling you a 'gay man'...while I usually do not lay too much stress on overt political correctness, or make a big issue around pronouns for myself, but it is entirely different for a woman I believe. Mostly because the implications and its problematic fall outs of gender is very different for a women when compared to a cis-men, and hence, the triggers, if any, are completely understandable.
Regarding the disillusionment or being critical of TQ+, I would not dismiss you on that either....one, because nothing and no one is perfect or beyond criticism, and two, because the politics of power, funds, and visibility, very much influences the narratives of the larger activism around LGBTQ+ equal rights.
I would however, sincerely suggest you not to be too swayed by the 'online communities', given that they usually comprise of more privileged, urban- elites, with a greater access to spaces and forums, and having a social-cultural capital (e.g. reasonable command over English as a language of communication and hence the access to certain spaces, amongst others) that is not comparable to most or at least a substantial part of the LGBTQ+ community. This group of privileged elites have an agenda and set of priorities that is very little informed or congizant of the life, lived realities and challenges of TQ+ identified individuals who belong to less privileged, remote geographies and social classes....please note that I am not saying that the agenda or the priorities of this privileged group is to be dismissed, dissed or sneered at,.... those are important for them and they are very valid...but unfortunately, it is very rarely representative of the larger community and particularly the socio-culturally marginalised TQ+ individuals....as is always the case in our world, this more elite few who attempt to and often successfully hijack the narratives, the outcomes and the resources.... in the process a lot of the people, both from within and outside the LGBTQ+ community feel betrayed, underrepresented and disillusioned.....and this is but just one of the layers of the many layers that exist within the larger LGBTQ+ community.....but it will be wrong to say that all elites are are like that.....in other words, while it is very possible and important to discuss problematic traits within the LGBTQ+ community, and its innumerable layers and nuances it has, it is not to say that we do not need to stand united against common enemies like patriarchy, religious dogma, and socio-legal inequalities.
I also have my personal takes at gender identity and its politics, but I would never dismiss the realities of TQ+ individuals who are living it day in and day out, or question the validity of their expressed gender identity just because I find the discourse and its alignments problematic. I would rather make an effort to make it more participatory and inclusive of the voices of a much more diverse population who have a stake in it.
Phew...that was long, and this is probably not a suitable platform for conversations such as these. So may be we can have a separate and one-to-one conversation on this some time, if we both wish to.
Well...it is indeed unfortunate when someone who is marginalised themselves, fail to see and empathasise with the challenges of others who are also marginalised, even if in different ways, and degrees. To say that TQ+ lives and their lived struggles are having a 'negative impact on LGB community' is really dismissive, invisibilising, and discriminating, and really hurtful since it comes from someone who also identifies as a gender-sexuality minority. It probably also indicates that you may not have read enough about gender-sexuality minority rights movements, across the world. Please note that this is not an admonishment, or a put-down, but a request to consider reading more and find out who did what and how we are where we are today in terms of the progress on equal rights.
Then again, homophobia and transphobia is extremely high and pronounced within closeted queer people, and particularly cis-gay men. So even though I am not sure what exactly you identify as, considering you have said that you are a gay man, your response does not surprise me.
I hope your belief and take changes sooner than later. I can tell you from my own lived-experiences that an open mind and the simple kindness of letting people be who they are, liberates us in ways that is transformative.
Edit: I would be very cautious about peddling and preaching of 'morals' from a high horse, the same tool that has been consistently and persistently used since centuries to repress, muzzle and oppress anyone and everyone who is, or chose to be different. It's also quite ironic, coming from a gay man who feels oppressed in a religious homophobic country. Don't you find people and institutions using the same tool to tell you that you are not valid?
Its unfortunate and makes me sad to learn that you are "Living as a gay person within a religious, homophobic country." I can somewhat imagine how oppressive that might be.
But it does not make you automatically aware of the diverse queer experiences, neither their struggles nor their takes. It is as oppressive to invalidate any/all other kinds of experience and take at self expressions, just because you feel their is only a certain way queer politics, expression and desires should be. It is in no way different than what you may be experiencing at the hands of people and institutions in your own homophobic country. In other words, that statement sounds extremely entitled, which never helps to move towards a diverse and inclusive reality.
So I feel, and as it seems apparent from your takes at bodies, gender expressions, and agency of an individual on their own bodies and gender expressions, it IS very necessary for you, even as a gay person living in a homophobic country, to be open to other forms of queer expressions and realities ....and not dismiss or cancel them
Yes, I do agree somewhat that the problematic trope of Omegaverse in terms of "sorting characters into rigid gender roles based on how breedable they are"....and that needs to be criticised ...but then from what I understand the whole Omegaverse scene is a bit on the fetish side, and fetishes are rarely politically correct....
I do not think life or our desires are, or will ever be politically correct.......yes, we need to question that, but need not police it ...we should not stop criticising what's wrong, but to be too focused on political correctness more often than not makes us spend too much time and energy trying to 'argue and win', and often times constantly engage in virtue signalling, rather than change things in real....and live, while at it
And you believe that the 'men' and 'women' care about your definitions more than their own conviction of who they are???...well, as long as you are happy I guess
Great review! As a gay man who grew up being constantly othered, emotionally manipulated, and suppressed, I so agree to what you say about the show being beyond just a show, and will help a lot of people resonate and probably even heal, to an extent....off course it does all of that in a 'fantasy' mode, but if this was really stark and dark, would so many people watch it? ...we all know the answer to that I guess. So yes, big thanks to the entire team for this show. Also, season 2 is even better, in my opinion. I'm sure you have watched it. Love and hugs!
Thanks to your review, I found out about this show and watched it...absolutely loved it...and sigh.....I don't think I'll ever recover from Fluke's dimples...😭🥰
This has to be one of the most beautiful shows that I have watched in the recent times....the forests, the sounds, the moon, the camaraderie, and the love.....it was just so poignant....
While the ending was bitter-sweet and real, it ended on a note of hope and was plain beautiful...... I still hope that they will think of making another season...but even if they don't, this will remain one of the most cherished Thai shows that I have ever watched...
My verdict is just go for it....even if it seems slow in the beginning, keep at it, it is worth it.
Ah...I'm dying to watch this one and yet not able to start on it since I know I just don't have the option to do all 8 episodes together...and if I start, there is no way I can stop .....waaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh...:(((
Thanks for this review, hopefully will get to it by end May
YES YES YES!! I'm guessing the new season will have some intense heartbreaks, new pairings and hook-ups, and then possibly some delicious 'getting back together'?? In other words, I'm hoping they will have a happy ending for season 2, but keep it as real as season 1....can't wait!!!!!!!!!😍
Wow, so many words to just say you hate bi/pan/fluid people. You are claiming bi people have some sort of privilege,…
Mostly agree...while each of our struggles are unique and we will continue to be different in so many ways, our collective fight is against patriarchy and its myriad power trappings, and norms....
Yes, there are several intersections within the larger LGBTQ+ community and some of us do have more privileges and access than some others...... acknowledging that is critical....but what we need to realise is that instead of turning those differences in power-positions into accusations, or a competition to win against each other, we need to use those privileges to stand by and hold each other up..
We need to stop acting like we are at a trauma olympic/pageant to prove who has it worst, and hence gets the most attention, and gets to play the biggest victim .....
While trying to find validation and acknowledgement for our trauma is really important, and can be healing in ways, it has unfortunately, turned into a very slippery slope for us....where we are constantly dragging each other down...trying to prove that my 'ism'/way is the best and forgetting the whole point of fighting for our right to live as ourselves....as diverse beings
Wow, so many words to just say you hate bi/pan/fluid people. You are claiming bi people have some sort of privilege,…
I came looking for this drama because I got smitten with Joss...and whoa! what an interesting conversation I got to read...
Thank you for saying what you did....too many so called 'activists' and self-appointed guardians of the 'community' just want another ghetto and norm-ified system with very similar power structures rather than liberation from oppressive norms to live like you are....I say, if you want that, go do that, but don't go around bringing down others who do not want that..spend your energy elsewhere than focus on undoing efforts by those that are NOT your enemies...that's exactly how patriarchy and oppressive cultures thrive and perpetuate, by co-opting some from within the oppressed...
I guess the conditioning towards hetero-normative structures, hierarchies, and ideas are so ingrained and hard-wired in us that we probably do not even recognise how toxic we are being to others ..and NO, me being a victim and at the receiving end of oppression and discrimination never automatically makes me unable to oppress and peddle the same shit to another...and unfortunately too many of us in the queer population tend to do that....
As to our approaches, off course we are different people, so we would be expectedly having different approaches, but I do agree to a lot of what she is saying, as you would have already made out.
That does not necessarily make me closed to your thoughts, or a conversation with you. I must admit at the same time that I do sense distinct trans phobia in the comments that I see here from you. To let you know that this is not a put down either, I will admit here that many moons ago, I also had borderline transphobia, something that I could gradually process, understand and finally graduate out of, mostly thanks to some really kind trans, gay and non-binary individuals who helped me through it, with a lot of patience.
Last word, hatred, even though we need it often times to trigger us in the right direction, it mostly pulls us down, makes us weaker, and more miserable. No matter how different our opinions, priorities and realities are, I strongly believe we need to work against it, and not with it.
Regarding the disillusionment or being critical of TQ+, I would not dismiss you on that either....one, because nothing and no one is perfect or beyond criticism, and two, because the politics of power, funds, and visibility, very much influences the narratives of the larger activism around LGBTQ+ equal rights.
I would however, sincerely suggest you not to be too swayed by the 'online communities', given that they usually comprise of more privileged, urban- elites, with a greater access to spaces and forums, and having a social-cultural capital (e.g. reasonable command over English as a language of communication and hence the access to certain spaces, amongst others) that is not comparable to most or at least a substantial part of the LGBTQ+ community. This group of privileged elites have an agenda and set of priorities that is very little informed or congizant of the life, lived realities and challenges of TQ+ identified individuals who belong to less privileged, remote geographies and social classes....please note that I am not saying that the agenda or the priorities of this privileged group is to be dismissed, dissed or sneered at,.... those are important for them and they are very valid...but unfortunately, it is very rarely representative of the larger community and particularly the socio-culturally marginalised TQ+ individuals....as is always the case in our world, this more elite few who attempt to and often successfully hijack the narratives, the outcomes and the resources.... in the process a lot of the people, both from within and outside the LGBTQ+ community feel betrayed, underrepresented and disillusioned.....and this is but just one of the layers of the many layers that exist within the larger LGBTQ+ community.....but it will be wrong to say that all elites are are like that.....in other words, while it is very possible and important to discuss problematic traits within the LGBTQ+ community, and its innumerable layers and nuances it has, it is not to say that we do not need to stand united against common enemies like patriarchy, religious dogma, and socio-legal inequalities.
I also have my personal takes at gender identity and its politics, but I would never dismiss the realities of TQ+ individuals who are living it day in and day out, or question the validity of their expressed gender identity just because I find the discourse and its alignments problematic. I would rather make an effort to make it more participatory and inclusive of the voices of a much more diverse population who have a stake in it.
Phew...that was long, and this is probably not a suitable platform for conversations such as these. So may be we can have a separate and one-to-one conversation on this some time, if we both wish to.
Then again, homophobia and transphobia is extremely high and pronounced within closeted queer people, and particularly cis-gay men. So even though I am not sure what exactly you identify as, considering you have said that you are a gay man, your response does not surprise me.
I hope your belief and take changes sooner than later. I can tell you from my own lived-experiences that an open mind and the simple kindness of letting people be who they are, liberates us in ways that is transformative.
Edit: I would be very cautious about peddling and preaching of 'morals' from a high horse, the same tool that has been consistently and persistently used since centuries to repress, muzzle and oppress anyone and everyone who is, or chose to be different. It's also quite ironic, coming from a gay man who feels oppressed in a religious homophobic country. Don't you find people and institutions using the same tool to tell you that you are not valid?
But it does not make you automatically aware of the diverse queer experiences, neither their struggles nor their takes. It is as oppressive to invalidate any/all other kinds of experience and take at self expressions, just because you feel their is only a certain way queer politics, expression and desires should be. It is in no way different than what you may be experiencing at the hands of people and institutions in your own homophobic country. In other words, that statement sounds extremely entitled, which never helps to move towards a diverse and inclusive reality.
So I feel, and as it seems apparent from your takes at bodies, gender expressions, and agency of an individual on their own bodies and gender expressions, it IS very necessary for you, even as a gay person living in a homophobic country, to be open to other forms of queer expressions and realities ....and not dismiss or cancel them
Yes, I do agree somewhat that the problematic trope of Omegaverse in terms of "sorting characters into rigid gender roles based on how breedable they are"....and that needs to be criticised ...but then from what I understand the whole Omegaverse scene is a bit on the fetish side, and fetishes are rarely politically correct....
I do not think life or our desires are, or will ever be politically correct.......yes, we need to question that, but need not police it ...we should not stop criticising what's wrong, but to be too focused on political correctness more often than not makes us spend too much time and energy trying to 'argue and win', and often times constantly engage in virtue signalling, rather than change things in real....and live, while at it
While the ending was bitter-sweet and real, it ended on a note of hope and was plain beautiful...... I still hope that they will think of making another season...but even if they don't, this will remain one of the most cherished Thai shows that I have ever watched...
My verdict is just go for it....even if it seems slow in the beginning, keep at it, it is worth it.
Thanks for this review, hopefully will get to it by end May
Yes, there are several intersections within the larger LGBTQ+ community and some of us do have more privileges and access than some others...... acknowledging that is critical....but what we need to realise is that instead of turning those differences in power-positions into accusations, or a competition to win against each other, we need to use those privileges to stand by and hold each other up..
We need to stop acting like we are at a trauma olympic/pageant to prove who has it worst, and hence gets the most attention, and gets to play the biggest victim .....
While trying to find validation and acknowledgement for our trauma is really important, and can be healing in ways, it has unfortunately, turned into a very slippery slope for us....where we are constantly dragging each other down...trying to prove that my 'ism'/way is the best and forgetting the whole point of fighting for our right to live as ourselves....as diverse beings
Thank you for saying what you did....too many so called 'activists' and self-appointed guardians of the 'community' just want another ghetto and norm-ified system with very similar power structures rather than liberation from oppressive norms to live like you are....I say, if you want that, go do that, but don't go around bringing down others who do not want that..spend your energy elsewhere than focus on undoing efforts by those that are NOT your enemies...that's exactly how patriarchy and oppressive cultures thrive and perpetuate, by co-opting some from within the oppressed...
I guess the conditioning towards hetero-normative structures, hierarchies, and ideas are so ingrained and hard-wired in us that we probably do not even recognise how toxic we are being to others ..and NO, me being a victim and at the receiving end of oppression and discrimination never automatically makes me unable to oppress and peddle the same shit to another...and unfortunately too many of us in the queer population tend to do that....