For me BL/LGBT/Yaoi/Shounen-ai is same thing and no one can change my mind. But, regarding for who is this series…
As someone who has been studying the BL phenomenon, I can tell you that there IS a difference between BL and queer contents.
First of all, the origins. The genre that is currently known as 'Boys Love' originated in Japan in the 1970s. It was pioneered by the 'Year 24 Group', a group of female authors who wrote manga for young women -- in fact, the first 'shounen-ai' (literally, 'boys love') manga were published in shoujo magazines addressed to girls. The objective of the Year 24 Group was to break free from the patriarchal and constrictive models imposed on women by society. Reading such works was somehow liberating. Over the years, thanks to doujinshi, fan works, the JUNE magazines and other official serializations, the genre developed not only in Japan but also in its neighbouring countries. An example is Thailand: in the 1990s some young Thai ladies started writing fanfictions and stories inspired by Japanese yaoi manga, later published as novels due to their growing popularity. Every country adopted its own peculiar traits, depending on the culture and the needs of the creators. While the Japanese market is now still dominated by female mangaka and female readers and is oriented towards an idealization of homosexual relationships, the new Filipino series are mainly produced by LGBT directors and script-writers who have seen the success of "2gether" in the Philippines as their chance to give the so far ignored LGBT community the representation it deserves. As the genre keeps expanding, it also keeps changing. The originally female-only audience is now more variegated. The influence that one country has on the other is also important. The fact that we are soon going to get some very original Thai BL series -- the thriller "Manner of death", the meta-BL "Lovely writer", the fantasy "Teddy bear miracle" -- shows that Thailand is starting to feel the competition with the other emerging countries and is adapting accordingly. Now, those changes and the simplificative use of the term "BL" to label any male/male fictional story are gradually blurring the boundaries of BL and queer works, but in my opinion the distinction is still very clear today -- "2gether" is BL, "Gameboys" isn't; "Make it right" is BL, "I told sunset about you" isn't; "TharnType" is BL, "Like in the movies" isn't. In "2gether", "Make it right" and "TharnType" most of the characters don't even consider themselves gay and the portrayal of the relationships is idealized, based on romantic -- and sexual -- fantasies; "Gameboys", "I told sunset about you" and "Like in the movies" are coming-of-age stories where the characters confront their sexuality and grow from the difficulties they have to face. The intentions of the producers, the topics, the type of characters and stories are different. We'll see how BL will change in the next few years.
I'd also like to point out that Boys Love is characterized by a web of self-created common places that you can't find in any other genre. The first one that comes to my mind is the originally Japanese distinction between 'seme' and 'uke' -- based on archaic, heteronormative male and female stereotypes -- that we also find in Thai BLs as 'mia' and 'pua' -- two pre-existing words that in the BL universe adopted the same connotation as 'seme' and 'uke'.
Totally agree. Things will change eventually. Thailand as a country and people have been very progressive and…
I totally agree with you. Things are changing, and they are changing quickly if you think that homosexuality was declassified as a mental illness only in 2006! The LGBT groups in Thailand are pushing for more rights now and I hope that the popularity of these BL series will help the community. I remember reading an article about it: https://kisskh.at/profile/InesCastaldi/feeds/qwNmpfp.
Preach. Here's the thing about Mia/Pua - while it can be used frivolously, it specifically means someone you are…
I did my own research on those terms, but you certainly did an amazing job explaining them, so I'm going to save your comment and use it as a reference in the future. The fact is Thailand still doesn't allow same-sex marriages, so there's no, so to speak, "samee-samee" culture in the country; using the words "mia" and "pua" for gay couples is quite odd, though, since the neutral "fan" exists. Why do they need to put the accent on the sexual roles? And why are they using the mia-pua combination instead of pua-pua? I guess that in real life the people who use those terms do identify themselves as one or the other, but in BLs I'm pretty sure that it all comes down to its Japanese origins. As I explained in my previous comment, the first Thai BL stories were inspired by the growing popularity of yaoi manga in the 1990s, so it's just natural for me to think that the words "mia" and "pua" serve as a Thai version -- or even translation -- of the Japanese "uke" and "seme". In the end they all carry the same sexual and non-sexual connotations. I don't think I need to add anything else, since you've summarized the problem perfectly in the last paragraph of your comment.
Also, the example from Together With Me was perfect. It does hit differently when you know the nuances of meaning of those words.
Official statement regarding the movie: "Due to the Covid-19 pandemic, we have adjusted our content strategy and concluded to cancel the production plan of the movie “Crossover (The movie edition of HIStory2 Crossing the Line)”. This is a painful decision, and we would like to express our sincere apology. (...) As mentioned earlier, we modified our tactics and we decided to focus on the preparation of the new season “HIStory 4”. Please continue to support us and stay tuned."
Ahem, "your cheeks are as soft as a girl's" was used as at that time he was straight, ik u probably won't see…
I'm glad you agree with me! You know, even if it were a cultural difference, we would still have the right to express our own opinion. I can't force them to change their culture, but I think there's nothing wrong with explaining my point of view and trying to have a civil debate over the question.
Oh, I've never watched God's Own Country! It does seem interesting from the synopsis and stills online. I'll add it to my watchlist. Thank you for the recommendation ^^
This show makes me happy. In every episode I find myself grinning from ear to ear like an idiot. And Adachi is everything. I'm establishing a connection with him where I'm happy when he is happy, I'm sad when he is sad, I'm proud when he is doing good and I want to be supportive when he underestimates himself. I'm so glad that Adachi is making new friends and that he has found someone as caring as Kurosawa.
All in all, I'm really loving this series and I can't wait for the next episode! ♥
I've just finished catching up with this series and, honestly, it isn't as bad as people say -- or at least it isn't that bad compared to the first season. I bet the timeline change must have been confusing and shocking as hell for those who watched it as it was airing and Ae's storyline could have certainly been handled better, but apart from that, the second season isn't much worse than the first one. In the end A Chance To Love and Love By Chance share the same basic problems: mediocre direction, useless fillers and too many unnecessary couples. I think that the backlash is mainly due to the nostalgic idealization of the first season and the bad timing. The quality of BL series has improved a lot in the past two years and the expectations and needs of the viewers have adjusted to the new standard. I'm pretty sure that the first season of Love By Chance would be bashed if it were to be released today. Love By Chance was good in 2018, but now it's 2020. I'm not saying that A Chance To Love is better than Love By Chance, or that it's perfect; I just think that it doesn't deserve so much hate when its not-so-different predecessor is still given so much love.
As for the reboot, I found it quite refreshing. Changing all the scenes was a smart -- and necessary -- move. I ended up liking this version more in most cases. And here I'm probably going to differ from everyone else, but I need to say it: the dialogues, the acting and the chemistry were so much better in season 2! Compare the scenes where Can rejects Tin, for example: in season 1 the dialogue was so freaking silly, while in season 2 it had much more depth (see here: https://imgur.com/a/kDN00Mw). Or take the scene where Tin opens up to Can and explains what happened to him in the past: in season 1 Tin appeared artificially detached from the story he was telling and Can seemed to understand it only on a superficial level; in season 2 Tin looks miserable and he is visibly still hurting a lot, while Can shows his great sympathy by being supportive and getting frustrated and angry in a very credible -- not just childish, like in season 1 -- way (https://imgur.com/wmiTMgW). And now think about all the scenes where Tin and Can are cuddling, hugging, looking into each other's eyes and declaring their feelings in this new season. How can people say that there's no chemistry between them? I see a very natural affection in those gestures that I really didn't expect since the actors have stated that this series will be their last BL project. They could have done the bare minimum, but I feel that they really did their best here, especially Mean -- and I'm saying this as a non-fan of his, so it's a huge compliment. I'm not surprised by the chemistry, though: they have been together in many series, projects and events, so they must be used to being around each other now.
Again, I'm not saying that A Chance To Love is a masterpiece -- in fact, it isn't -- but I believe that it does have something good to offer. You don't have to like it very much, just keep your heart open for it (I'll give 10 points to whoever recognizes this almost-quote).
The IdeaFirst announcement on Twitter: "Due to scheduling conflicts with our cast and guest stars, we need to push back the release date of #PearlNextDoorEp3. Please standby for further announcements. Thank you for understanding."
I know people with think I’m crazy, but I actually enjoy this more than the first season. For those complaining…
I don't know if I find season 2 better than season 1, but neither of them was exceptionally good anyway -- based on the current standards, at least. I do think that most of TinCan's reboot was better than the original, though. Just compare the scene where Can rejects Tin: in season 1 the dialogue was so freaking silly, while in season 2 it was moving and had more depth (see here: https://imgur.com/a/kDN00Mw). Or take the scene where Tin opens up to Can and explains what happened to him in the past: in season 1 Tin appeared artificially detached from the story he was telling and Can seemed to understand it only on a superficial level; in season 2 Tin looks so miserable -- he is clearly still hurting -- and Can shows his deep sympathy by getting frustrated and angry in a very credible way (https://imgur.com/wmiTMgW). In the second season there was more consistency and I could understand Tin and Can's feelings and connection a lot better. Hadn't they included the other unnecessary couples, this would have been possible in the previous season as well. But again, this adaptation has never been a masterpiece in my opinion.
Umm I don't know if you've read it anywhere or not but Hin was not in a relationship with Tul (not officially).…
Thank you so much for this detailed summary! As someone once told me, some actions can't be justified, but they can be understood. I'll always condemn Tul's wrongdoings, but knowing his backstory sure helps me understand his character better.
i agree so so much. the earlier trailer made it look much more childhood friends to lovers and fun and new ( since…
Totally agree. It looks like the most basic BL plot with all the common tropes, even the bitchy female girlfriend. The first trailer was heartwarming, but this one was disheartening :/
Ahem, "your cheeks are as soft as a girl's" was used as at that time he was straight, ik u probably won't see…
I want to start by saying that I absolutely don't want to argue with you. I'll just clarify some things, since there seems to be a misunderstanding here.
First of all, I've been into Boys Love for years, starting with Japanese manga, then moving to Korean and Chinese comics and finally shifting to BL series. In the past 2-3 years I've watched a lot of BL dramas -- about 35 -- and I've read countless articles regarding the history, development and behind-the-scenes of the genre. I'd say I'm pretty educated when it comes to every aspect of it, tropes included. As you say, most characters in BLs aren't or don't consider themselves gay and, you know, it's really not that big of a deal. If anything, that's the charm of Boys Love. Loving someone unconditionally, regardless of their gender, is absolutely beautiful. As they say, "love is love". BUT the heteronormativization issue has always bugged me. And when I say "always", I mean since when I was reading yaoi manga back in high school. And it's not surprising since everything started there, in Japan. The Thai series and novels we enjoy today are an extention of that culture -- if you are not aware, the very first Thai BL fanfictions, later published as novels and now adapted into series, were inspired by Japanese yaoi manga; that's why the genre is known in Thailand as 'Y' (= yaoi). The wife/husband trope used in Thai BLs is the equivalent of the uke/seme roles in Japanese manga. Treating the wife/uke as if he were a woman -- a woman based on the archaic female stereotype of the short, frail and delicate one who does the housework and is passive during sex -- simply makes me uncomfortable. I'm not getting worked up, I'm just expressing my point of view. I'm disappointed because, as yee yer explains in the comment below, the series seemed so much better in the first trailer. Maybe you have a different opinion and that's totally okay. I respect it.
Second of all, I actually haven't watched a lot of Western stuff. When I talked about my "Western eye", I meant that the wife/husband distinction isn't used -- and probably wouldn't be accepted -- in most Western countries. But this topic is too complex and I don't want to address it here now. A nice movie you could watch is Jongens, though. It's a Dutch coming-of-age story. It's pretty good in my opinion, but remember that it's not "BL", it's a realistic gay story.
Well, I'm quite disappointed. I looked forward to this series because it seemed fresh and cute, but the new trailer made me realize that it's just another unoriginal and clichéd Thai BL. Also, this "wife" thing is really starting to get on my nerves. I've heard that it's actually used by some gay couples in Thailand, but my Western eyes can't see it just as a cultural difference; it's an unhealthy heteronormativization of gay relationships based on archaic male-female stereotypes -- that "your cheeks are as soft as a girl's" made me roll my eyes. Argh, I must have watched too many non-Thai BLs lately.
3 
First of all, the origins. The genre that is currently known as 'Boys Love' originated in Japan in the 1970s. It was pioneered by the 'Year 24 Group', a group of female authors who wrote manga for young women -- in fact, the first 'shounen-ai' (literally, 'boys love') manga were published in shoujo magazines addressed to girls. The objective of the Year 24 Group was to break free from the patriarchal and constrictive models imposed on women by society. Reading such works was somehow liberating. Over the years, thanks to doujinshi, fan works, the JUNE magazines and other official serializations, the genre developed not only in Japan but also in its neighbouring countries. An example is Thailand: in the 1990s some young Thai ladies started writing fanfictions and stories inspired by Japanese yaoi manga, later published as novels due to their growing popularity.
Every country adopted its own peculiar traits, depending on the culture and the needs of the creators. While the Japanese market is now still dominated by female mangaka and female readers and is oriented towards an idealization of homosexual relationships, the new Filipino series are mainly produced by LGBT directors and script-writers who have seen the success of "2gether" in the Philippines as their chance to give the so far ignored LGBT community the representation it deserves.
As the genre keeps expanding, it also keeps changing. The originally female-only audience is now more variegated. The influence that one country has on the other is also important. The fact that we are soon going to get some very original Thai BL series -- the thriller "Manner of death", the meta-BL "Lovely writer", the fantasy "Teddy bear miracle" -- shows that Thailand is starting to feel the competition with the other emerging countries and is adapting accordingly. Now, those changes and the simplificative use of the term "BL" to label any male/male fictional story are gradually blurring the boundaries of BL and queer works, but in my opinion the distinction is still very clear today -- "2gether" is BL, "Gameboys" isn't; "Make it right" is BL, "I told sunset about you" isn't; "TharnType" is BL, "Like in the movies" isn't. In "2gether", "Make it right" and "TharnType" most of the characters don't even consider themselves gay and the portrayal of the relationships is idealized, based on romantic -- and sexual -- fantasies; "Gameboys", "I told sunset about you" and "Like in the movies" are coming-of-age stories where the characters confront their sexuality and grow from the difficulties they have to face. The intentions of the producers, the topics, the type of characters and stories are different.
We'll see how BL will change in the next few years.
I'd also like to point out that Boys Love is characterized by a web of self-created common places that you can't find in any other genre. The first one that comes to my mind is the originally Japanese distinction between 'seme' and 'uke' -- based on archaic, heteronormative male and female stereotypes -- that we also find in Thai BLs as 'mia' and 'pua' -- two pre-existing words that in the BL universe adopted the same connotation as 'seme' and 'uke'.
I'd like to recommend some articles, since there's so much more to say on the topic:
> https://yattatachi.com/history-of-boys-love
> https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=pt&tl=en&u=https://www.centralboyslove.com/2020/09/o-bl-na-tailandia-um-pouco-de-historia.html
> https://cnnphilippines.com/life/entertainment/television/2020/10/20/boys-love-gay-boys-generation.html
> https://psycho-milk.com/2020/09/24/boys-love-or-queer-cinema-an-innocent-question/
P.S. According to a post I read yesterday, the director of "I Told Sunset About You" himself said that he doesn't consider his series a "BL".
I don't think I need to add anything else, since you've summarized the problem perfectly in the last paragraph of your comment.
Also, the example from Together With Me was perfect. It does hit differently when you know the nuances of meaning of those words.
[Full post: https://www.facebook.com/253114305578521/posts/686829818873632/]
Oh, I've never watched God's Own Country! It does seem interesting from the synopsis and stills online. I'll add it to my watchlist. Thank you for the recommendation ^^
All in all, I'm really loving this series and I can't wait for the next episode! ♥
As for the reboot, I found it quite refreshing. Changing all the scenes was a smart -- and necessary -- move. I ended up liking this version more in most cases. And here I'm probably going to differ from everyone else, but I need to say it: the dialogues, the acting and the chemistry were so much better in season 2! Compare the scenes where Can rejects Tin, for example: in season 1 the dialogue was so freaking silly, while in season 2 it had much more depth (see here: https://imgur.com/a/kDN00Mw). Or take the scene where Tin opens up to Can and explains what happened to him in the past: in season 1 Tin appeared artificially detached from the story he was telling and Can seemed to understand it only on a superficial level; in season 2 Tin looks miserable and he is visibly still hurting a lot, while Can shows his great sympathy by being supportive and getting frustrated and angry in a very credible -- not just childish, like in season 1 -- way (https://imgur.com/wmiTMgW). And now think about all the scenes where Tin and Can are cuddling, hugging, looking into each other's eyes and declaring their feelings in this new season. How can people say that there's no chemistry between them? I see a very natural affection in those gestures that I really didn't expect since the actors have stated that this series will be their last BL project. They could have done the bare minimum, but I feel that they really did their best here, especially Mean -- and I'm saying this as a non-fan of his, so it's a huge compliment. I'm not surprised by the chemistry, though: they have been together in many series, projects and events, so they must be used to being around each other now.
Again, I'm not saying that A Chance To Love is a masterpiece -- in fact, it isn't -- but I believe that it does have something good to offer. You don't have to like it very much, just keep your heart open for it (I'll give 10 points to whoever recognizes this almost-quote).
I do think that most of TinCan's reboot was better than the original, though. Just compare the scene where Can rejects Tin: in season 1 the dialogue was so freaking silly, while in season 2 it was moving and had more depth (see here: https://imgur.com/a/kDN00Mw). Or take the scene where Tin opens up to Can and explains what happened to him in the past: in season 1 Tin appeared artificially detached from the story he was telling and Can seemed to understand it only on a superficial level; in season 2 Tin looks so miserable -- he is clearly still hurting -- and Can shows his deep sympathy by getting frustrated and angry in a very credible way (https://imgur.com/wmiTMgW).
In the second season there was more consistency and I could understand Tin and Can's feelings and connection a lot better. Hadn't they included the other unnecessary couples, this would have been possible in the previous season as well. But again, this adaptation has never been a masterpiece in my opinion.
First of all, I've been into Boys Love for years, starting with Japanese manga, then moving to Korean and Chinese comics and finally shifting to BL series. In the past 2-3 years I've watched a lot of BL dramas -- about 35 -- and I've read countless articles regarding the history, development and behind-the-scenes of the genre. I'd say I'm pretty educated when it comes to every aspect of it, tropes included. As you say, most characters in BLs aren't or don't consider themselves gay and, you know, it's really not that big of a deal. If anything, that's the charm of Boys Love. Loving someone unconditionally, regardless of their gender, is absolutely beautiful. As they say, "love is love". BUT the heteronormativization issue has always bugged me. And when I say "always", I mean since when I was reading yaoi manga back in high school. And it's not surprising since everything started there, in Japan. The Thai series and novels we enjoy today are an extention of that culture -- if you are not aware, the very first Thai BL fanfictions, later published as novels and now adapted into series, were inspired by Japanese yaoi manga; that's why the genre is known in Thailand as 'Y' (= yaoi). The wife/husband trope used in Thai BLs is the equivalent of the uke/seme roles in Japanese manga. Treating the wife/uke as if he were a woman -- a woman based on the archaic female stereotype of the short, frail and delicate one who does the housework and is passive during sex -- simply makes me uncomfortable. I'm not getting worked up, I'm just expressing my point of view. I'm disappointed because, as yee yer explains in the comment below, the series seemed so much better in the first trailer. Maybe you have a different opinion and that's totally okay. I respect it.
Second of all, I actually haven't watched a lot of Western stuff. When I talked about my "Western eye", I meant that the wife/husband distinction isn't used -- and probably wouldn't be accepted -- in most Western countries. But this topic is too complex and I don't want to address it here now.
A nice movie you could watch is Jongens, though. It's a Dutch coming-of-age story. It's pretty good in my opinion, but remember that it's not "BL", it's a realistic gay story.