Platinum Fox

However, I would be interested in what you have done on this. I, too, am very interested in that type of analysis of a story.

I get your point. Is it just her accomplishments or also LBY's? Remember he is 21 years old and already a high ranking general. She tries so hard to accomplish something on her own, but when she does the emperor gives the kudos to LBY. This is part of the reason why she is rebellious. She wants to make a name for herself, not for her husband which makes her seem a little selfish at times. I do agree with you though there are some scenes where I feel she is a bit childish and selfish, but I also have to account for her age and experiences outside of her home. She is young and not very worldly. However, she has probably seen more in one year than most people see in a life time. And at times don't we all feel the woe is me syndrome when something bad happens to us. She is a very realistic character. I think the writers wanted us to think about how mature are teenagers and people in their early 20s are they really ready to make the commitment of marriage and what that entails? There are some very thought provoking issues going on in this drama. This is just one of them. When I think about LBY and SS I think about the concept of love found in Romeo and Juliet. Is what they have really love? Yes, LBY cares about her and is there for her, but is that enough to create a lasting relationship? If he can't tell her things that are important to him, but he wants her to tell him every thing how is that fair to her?

I agree that the relationship as it was was doomed from the start. Hence why the parents were against it in the beginning. Both main characters had many flaws, and she was very socially immature. Yes, even up to the point where they broke up. But I have to agree with her on her choice of not to marry him right then. She was by far not ready and neither was he. I also agree with her reason for not marrying him. At that moment she did a very mature thing.

Who would you have wanted to help the villagers then? Why do you think the writers had her character do it?

I am not talking about that. I would not be able to tell you that as I am not up on my Chinese culture or names. What I am talking about is the structure of the entire story itself.

He nor she are ever implicated in the first tiger tally incident. However, he uses the tiger tally on the night of his revenge to safe guard the streets. He is like SS in he tries to plan ahead and make sure only the right people get what they deserve. She tells her family what she suspects and her parents, knowing what they know about Gao City, help her protect the last witness to the incident.

Kinara, I have to agree and disagree with you on some things. I have read all of your posts about this relationship between LBY and SS. First, I agree it is a very flawed relationship and neither one really understands what love is and what it means. Both are self-centered because they felt powerless to control what was going on around them, especially in their personal lives. Secondly, I also agree that she should have stayed out of the political mess. However, when you love someone you try to help them as much as possible. She loved the crown prince and the empress. Neither are bad people; they are just not cut out for politics which is what Shen'en tried to explain to the emperor when she stepped down from being empress. Third, SS called off the wedding, not for selfish reasons, but because she felt they did not have the same definition of what love is. If you love someone you tell them everything. You do not hide things. Remember LBY and the emperor come up with an elaborate plan to get her to confide in someone and to trust other people with her issues. Yet, LBY uses what she did to further his own agenda and doesn't tell her anything about his personal life. He keeps her just out of reach. So this is where I disagree with you. At first she is very rash and headstrong. However, by this point, she has truly experienced everything he has experienced. She knows who he is. She understands the importance of Gao City to him and even says so, yet he still tells her nothing. She could have given him a different perspective if she had known all the facts. Throughout the two seasons they stress the importance of Ling Yi and the second wife. Something SS stresses time and time again. It is her who realizes something else must be going on and brings things to light because this is considered a woman's issue.

Thank you, I understand what you are saying. I do not understand or read Chinese, so I am only going by subtitles and previous background knowledge.

The first crown prince is the first born son of the empress, so they are following the laws of the country. However, the first crown prince is ineffective, thus the 3rd prince and LBY try to get him out. They only succeed when Shen'en steps down as empress and Consort Yue becomes the empress.

I disagree with you. The break up is to reflect the story arc of the 3rd aunt and the scholar in the first season. LBY (HBY by this time) sentences himself to seven years at the northern border. He stays connected to her through his right hand man, Bai since the empress is in seclusion. SS sentences herself to take care of the only mother figure left in HBY's life. If she had stayed home with her family during this time, then it really would have been the end of the relationship. The connection between the two would have been severed as there would have been no reason for the two to reconnect in the future. SS can stay connected to him through this means even though she is angry with him. She can also repay the kindness the empress has shown her. In addition, she can achieve her goals that she spoke about with LY and HBY. She wants to do something to support the country, she would not have been able to do this while at home.

The flashbacks are mom's regrets, not NN's. How many times have you said or done something and it comes back to haunt you? While at home NN used to be bubbly and happy, now because of her experience in the palace she is depressed. Mom can't do anything about it. It is all a part of growing up.

I disagree. How do we know the emperor before him was a terrible ruler? In these dramas people overthrow the king or emperor for power all the time. It is the concept of the Divine Right of Kings theory and Force theory when it comes to governing. If there is someone stronger who can take over, then they are the son of heaven. The emperor took over only because his side was stronger than the other side in the battle for the throne. Hence all the "rebellions" afterwards. This doesn't automatically make him a good emperor. According to Shen'en the emperor was a farmer before he was the emperor. What did he know about politics and running a country? The audience loves the emperor because of his comedic actions and he is "different" than the emperors in most dramas. However, I argue he is one of the worst emperors (politically and as a family man) because of his incompetency. LBY and Consort Yue make him look good.

As for the crown prince, it is not an automatic rule that the eldest son becomes the crown prince. If that were the case, why do many dramas have the sons fighting for the crown prince position or trying to gain their father's favor in hopes of being named the crown prince. The first crown prince is the crown prince because his mother holds the title of empress ( a job and title she did not want). The emperor did not want to show favoritism towards Consort Yue's children by naming 3rd prince as crown prince even though he was clearly the better choice.

The first crown prince's character is there to show the harm of nepotism in the work place and display the concept of favoritism in the political arena. Whose to say that he wouldn't have become a good crown prince if he would have had a strong wife, a wife the emperor chose for him.

This drama is all about appearances and first impressions. On the surface this is a cute drama with all the genre's tropes, but in reality it takes those tropes and turns them upside down.

Yes, they are a lot alike, but yet very different. NN doesn't use people to further her own agenda. Yes, he understands her, but he does not realize what she means to him until after the five year break up in season two. She realizes long before he does that they belong together and provides him many opportunities to tell her everything, but he doesn't. He is blinded by his own agenda.

The purpose for that scene is not what you think. Yes, it is a cute scene between our main leads. However, it reflects something else. This story is very craftly done.

I thought the same thing.

You will have a hard time finding a wuxia drama without violent scenes. This is no exception. The opening sequence is one of the most graphic and violent scenes I have seen in a wuxia drama. Hence why the main character does what he does. Yes, it is an excellent rendition of a chess game and strategy plays a huge part in this. My suggestion would be for you to watch the drama first and then take out any part you feel would be too violent for your child to see. One other one you might try is Jewel in the Palace rated PG. It is based on a real historical person. You also might try a fantasy version of wuxia, The Last Immortal comes to mind. Happy hunting.

I don't get the hype either. For a drama to be timeless, it must create the same amount of excitement it did when it came out. For me, this drama did not as the story made no sense. I watched it due to its hype. If fantasy is all about reflection and redemption, then the character of the goblin bride does not have a reason to be there. The goblin is not someone who is incapable of love, and he did not die because of it. The goblin was killed because the king was jealous that the sister chose her brother over him and the general was supposedly getting too powerful. Where does the goblin bride fit into this scenario? Why must she be the one to pull out the sword?

This story should have been about the king who commits suicide because of what he did. Instead he becomes a grim reaper. How does that make sense? He should have been the wandering spirit seeking forgiveness from his queen who loved him deeply and the general who was faithful to him.

As for the two "love" stories in this drama, an older male (putting that nicely) finally gets together with the "love" of his life when she is 19 years old. She calls him mister for a long time after they get together. This is not something you would call your boyfriend. This made it hard for me to believe they were a couple, even after she came of age. He treats her like a little kid and she acts like a child because she is one. For me, there was more chemistry between the two male actors than between the couples. Even the second main couple lagged in making me believe they loved each other. I finally had to stop watching at episode 14 because the story became very unrealistic even for a fantasy. I enjoy a good story when it makes sense. However, Goblin did not.

I have always wondered why this was called Rebel Princess (besides the 39-year-old actress playing a 16-year-old girl), but after reading your spoilers I think I understand it more. First, she goes against her grandfather to not marry the first brother. She fights to marry the 3rd brother. After she is married to the general, she must fight to have a child without dying. She also fights against being married to some other guy from the plains tribe, but that is really about it.

Is the general the perfect husband? No, they have made that clear from the start when he deserted her on her wedding night. Yet, I admire him for doing what he did on that day. The girl did not love him and he did not want to do anything with her until she did or they could be divorced. I admire his character for that decision even though it made her look bad. She got over it and grew to love him. He also made it up to her in the end.

However, the birth control is a different issue. During that time husbands, fathers, and brothers controlled all of the decision making in the family even the health and well being of the women. Men did not have to discuss any issue with their wives. The females were just expected to go along with any decision. It was a very open-minded male who allowed any discussion. With that being said, he did have the right to keep her condition from her and just follow what the doctor prescribed. However, I think the main point of this is exactly what you said. She should have been told and they should have discussed it together, especially since most males have no clue about the reproductive system of females. At the time, he could only make a decision based on the opinion of the male doctor. Once he talked with the maid and learned the truth about the drug and other options, he discussed it with her and they planned together. He is not infallible, but he is a way better husband then some of the husbands I have seen in these dramas.

I loved the women's issues discussed in this drama and the general is a good male example of a husband who is trying to treat his wife as an equal. Is he the perfect husband, no! In the end, he learns to become a better husband. I love how they adopted all those children.

It is fair. NN caused the collapse of the bridge. People could have gotten hurt. The Wan family would have been held liable. This was a serious event. Dad explains the purpose for the punishment. Mom does try to talk with her and asks NN if she deserves to be punished. Every kid will say no they don't despite the circumstances. Mom wants her to accept responsibility for her actions. By receiving the punishment, mom now knows NN can accept responsibility. In the end, mom sends NN away, not because she doesn't want her, but because she knows if NN stays in that environment the retaliation from the other girls will get even worse, and she will not have any power to do anything about it. As we see in season 2.

As far as punishing the noble girls in season 1, the mother has no control over that. She can go to the parents of the three girls, but she has no power to make them discipline their children. In fact, the parents are just as bad as the three girls in bullying other people. It's why LBY steps in and says he will try the case. Once LBY and SS are engaged, then LBY can take over the bullying issue of the noble girls. He has the power to do something about it. In this season mom does not.

I think the emperor should have been a part of that parade of fathers and brothers who needed to be publicly shamed for not disciplining their daughters.

You're right. If you want a fast paced love story, this story is not for you. I argue that the couple do not really fall in love until well into season 2. Although one of the most sexual scenes in the story is in episode 12 of this season.

I understand what you are saying. The story asks what method is the best method for disciplining a child? It depends on the child. The mom didn't have to worry about YY because YY is too timid to cause trouble. Scolding her would be enough if she did. With SS, she is a different child with a very different personality. She is always at the center of trouble which is why mom is constantly telling her to be on her best behavior. Even though SS never says anything, mom understands the situation with the noble girls. However, she has no power to deal with it. LBY does. That's why the scene where he intercedes in a family affair is important. He understands the mother's position and rank among the noble families.

With that being said, when SS pulls the bridge collapsing stunt, mom has control over this situation. It is her daughter who does it. Everyone knows why she did it. Even GW's mother knows and comments on she probably would have done something even worse, and it is why she writes a letter telling the mother about what SS did before doing it. Mom was not going to punish SS for it. It is the father who says she must be punished. This is the first time the father has said SS needs discipline. This is also why SS doesn't fight the punishment. She knows she deserves it. Her pride at this point is not hurt, but she has done something to embarrass the family image. BTW, mom does not enjoy punishing her daughter. It is hurting her more than you know. She sacrifices her relationship with her daughter in order to make sure the father's relationship stays intact. You also learn later on that the flogging (though it sounded terrible at the time) was really very mild.

As for the scene with LBY and the emperor in the second season, that is at a whole different level. LBY messes with court officials, their sons and daughters. All for his own agenda (which by the way even he hasn't told an adult). He even uses what happens to SS do it. The flogging is planned by them as a show to get SS to trust and tell people things. He is not really being punished for what he did. I think he deserves it because of what he will do in the future and for the same reason. Can you punish someone in advance?
Thank you for the discussion.

I get what you're saying. I actually liked the ending and loved the foreshadowing for it (the scene where the four are playing statue). The male lead character finally realizes that there is more to life than power that you have to fight to keep.

Yes, I really love how many people think the two wives are close. The emperor without realizing it treats Shen'en as an after thought even at her birthday party. He clearly loves Consort Yue. Everyone loves him for his comedic actions, but I find them as a way to cover up for his incompetency to deal with his own family. They make a point of saying the first crown prince is not capable of running the country because he can't control his family. Yet clearly the emperor can't either. That's what I love about this drama. First impressions aren't always the right ones.