PrettyCarEye

Let's stay on topic here. Your rebuttal to the OP's comment was that 'female actresses get a lot of hate when the guy is younger' and I asked you where? Certainly not on MDL. I gave you specific examples of shows in which the FLs are *significantly older*, old enough to be the ML's mother, and they get nothing but love. The usual argument is that well, she doesn't look old so it doesn't matter. Here because the ML in Clean With Passion isn't some baby faced idol, everyone is crucifying this man and projecting their morality on him & the makers of this drama. So the conversation was never about ageism unfairly targeting woman, at least not as far as I'm concerned. The conversation was & is about *hypocrisy* and how this fuels the 'wrong' & 'creepy' classification of age gaps, esp large ones, between couples.

On this website, it has become a growing trend to celebrate massive age gaps when the woman is older, but condemn it when the man is older. *I* find that odd. Because people aren't saying "Okay, I admit it. I'm biased toward women so that's why I can tolerate huge age gaps when the female is significantly older than the male." No, people get on soap boxes & preach how having an age gap is morally wrong & creepy ... but strangely only when it's the man's who is older. I think that's why the OP may have mentioned Something In The Rain. Because if age gaps are supposedly wrong & creepy, then why single out only men, but not the women, regardless of how wide the gap is?

That's why I said go and compare the comment sections of noona romances and 'ahjussi' romances. Stark difference. It's so different that I've started checking the watch lists of viewers who bash older men/younger women couples, and sure enough a significant number of these viewers seem to have watched every noona romance that I know of (including some with massive age gaps). Some even consistently rate these with very high scores, which suggest an inherent bias because all these shows can't always be THAT good.

But when it comes to 'ahjussi' romances ... these very same viewers are on these drama pages foaming at the mouth & screaming 'This is pedophilia!' 'This is wrong!' 'He's too old, cringe!'
It seems to have gotten worse since #metoo broke. Even though #metoo was/is supposed to be about calling out ILLEGAL behaviour - engaging in sexual relations with minors and sexual assault. But here we are criminalizing men for legal behaviour and claiming 19 is the new 15.

I haven't seen the drama & I don't plan to so I can't comment on camera angles and the like. But I'm curious about a few things.

So, in your opinion, when, and how, would be appropriate for her to make the transition from being a child actress to an adult one? When she's 25, 30? Whether she's 19, 25 or 30, at some point she'll likely play a romantic role ... in which she'll have to engage in some physical interactions or another with her co-star. When all's said and done, does it really matter as long as she's an ADULT when she makes the transition? Or are you of the opinion that a 19 yr old isn't an adult, but a child?

I'm just trying to understand.

Perhaps this is her cross over drama, where she's letting the viewing audience know that she's no longer a child, and that parents should probably stop letting their young children watch her programmes from now on. She's looking to attract a new audience, which no longer includes children. Could that be possible?

Okay, so if she was paired with some cute idol oppa (with or without the age gap), sexualizing her would be okay?

And just so it is said, I'm not watching this drama & I'm not interested in watching this drama. I'm neither for nor against the couple. I just happened upon the page out of curiosity for the title. Saying this to say, I'm not 'defending' this drama or its protagonists because I'm 'biased' toward them in any way. I'm totally indifferent. But, shocker ... so many of these silly comments about the age gap simply defy logic and basic common sense, there's no way I couldn't respond.

So you accuse me of pulling stuff out of my ass, but are now complaining about being insulted. Talk about dishing out, but can't take it when its handed back to you. Want intellectual debate? Make yourself worthy of it. Otherwise, I do not have the virtue of patience (which is why my sharp tongue always come out) to entertain the buffoonery that is all too prevalent on this site.

It's really funny how you talk about 'arguing logically, instead of emotionally'. But let's look at who's really being 'emotional, instead of logical' here. As stated by yourself, your dislike of the age gap here is based on morals that you're projecting on two consenting adults playing in a fictional drama (they aren't together in real life).

I responded to you & others with some basic FACTS:
1) 19 yr olds are legally ADULTS in South Korea and many, probably most, other parts of the world.
2) Regardless of age, it is not a crime for one adult to engage in a sexual/romantic relationship with another adult.
3) In gendered debates where one condones behaviour in one sex, but condemn it in the other, this is a toxic expression of said gendered ideology (masculinity/femininity).

What was your response:
You're pulling stuff out of your ass!
It's not that deep / you're reaching 'sis' (when called on your hypocrisy)
Wah ... you're insulting me because I have a different opinion!

Yet, you have the audacity to sit here talking about 'logical arguments'. Your morals are irrelevant to legal facts. Your morals are based on your held values and emotions, and you're throwing a hissy fit over grown people in a fictional drama because of them. If I did insult you ... it was(is) because your responses are dumb. I don't think you're dumb and I am not calling you dumb, but your responses are dumb & contradictory. You addressed not one of my talking points. You automatically went into victim mode or deflected.

If you're so grown and enlightened, come with better arguments and maybe I'll be less 'insulting'. I don't have a problem with differing opinions. I have a problem with hypocrisy in gendered discussions, which is what I've called out. And which you and many others on this page have engaged in, in regards to this drama.

Every time this age gap thing comes up people like you are always on these pages talking shit. I mean, if you don't like dramas with older men younger women couples, why the hell do you watch them? Why engage in something that you're so against? This behaviour is the very definition of a 'hater'. It's very rare that I find myself on a noona romance page, because I'm not really into them. So ... what the heck are you doing here?

Yes, it is absolutely toxic feminism when you all get up in arms about this relationship but have no problem when the opposite occurs (age gap in favour of the woman). Secret Love Affair, Witch's Romance, Love & Fortune, I Hear Your Voice, Last Cinderella -- some of which I see you've watched. I sure didn't see you throwing a hissy fit about the age gaps on those pages!

It's toxic feminism when you seek to criminalize men for legal behaviour that you give women a pass for (or find excuses to condone). Whether you like it or not, 19 yrs are legally adults and it's not against the law to engage in relationships with them. Keep your morals out of other people's business (isn't that what y'all would say if it was a 31 yr old woman involved with a 19 yr old male?). You hypocrites are hilarious!

When you have the nerve to act all righteously indignant about a 12 yr age gap between consenting adults, rather than just admit your prejudice in favour of women .... TOXIC FEMINISM.

It's a real thing. Just as real as toxic masculinity. If you can have one, you sure as hell can have the other.

But I'm not expecting MDL viewers such as yourself to engage in any sort of independent and or critical thinking. Most of you on here are bandwagonists. And you have the nerve to talk about me pulling stuff out of my ass. Child, sit down.

You can not be talking about on this site? MDL is noona romance central! Please go check out the reviews and comment sections and stats for shows like Secret Love Affair, Witch's Romance etc. Most viewers loved them, despite these shows having HUGE age gaps (pushing 20 yrs!!!) between the leads, both in real life and in the dramas ... but nobody bashed these women for being perverts because they chose to play opposite such significantly younger men (both of whom could probably be their sons in real life!). Especially now since everyone turned into quasi feminists at the onset of the #metoo movement. Here a 19 yr old is portraying a woman in her late 20s/30s getting together with a man in his early 30s. In real life, they have an age gap of 12 yrs, in favour of the man, and people are losing their shit about this.

To you guys 19 yr olds are still children, apparently, not adults. People say if she were in her 20s, a 12 yr age gap wouldn't have mattered. Really? If 19 yr olds are children (on the same level as a 14, 15, 16 yr olds), they should not be having sex at all, not even with other 19 yr olds because children shouldn't be having sex period! (though we know they still do).

I'm just having a serious problem with criminalizing men for legal behaviour. A 19 yr old under the law is a legal adult. Sure, 19 is still pretty young, but as long as no one is breaking the law & everyone involved consents to the relationship, it's nobody's business who someone chooses to date . Would I as a 30 something get involved with a 19 yr old, no, not me personally ... but that's because I have a preference for older men. If I had a preference for younger men, I wouldn't have a problem getting into a relationship with one. There are so many women who are already in relationships with barely legal young men, just as there are men who do the same.

Moreover, it's not like a 31 yr old is old enough to be the father of the 19 yr old. I guess in some very rare cases, you hear children as young as 12 having kids, but that's so extremely rare in most developed countries that you'd have to think super hard to come up with an example.

The ML in SLA was and is young enough to be the FL's son, however. Where was the outrage for all of that? Heck, it's a huge trend in South Korea right now for significantly older women to be walking around with boy toys 15, 20 yrs their junior. If your argument is that this is wrong for men to do and should be discouraged, why not the same vitriol for these women (and dramas that depict them)?

OK, point taken. That's why I asked you who you were talking to ... because that was not clear from how you formulated your response.

Anyway, the stats I read were from South Korea and Japan, which seem to correlate with stats I've come across in the US and Europe. So I wasn't referring to countries outside of these. In the West & many countries in Asia, in particular East Asia, most women tend to get together with younger men later on in their lives, after their first major relationship. Their first major relationship is usually with an older man, but their second and or third relationship after the first, should they ever get divorced, has anywhere from a 35 - 45% chance of being with a younger man. One study I read claimed that in 1990 in Korea, only 19% of women married younger men, today it's 30% - 40%. Another study I read said that it's over 40% in the last decade because mainstream media have pushed these kinds of relationships in dramas, movies, radio shows etc. And of course being a country with deeply entrenched conformist mindsets, many people follow the wave, no questions asked.

If we can deduce that human behaviour/nature is more or less universal, regardless of culture, then these stats may not be that much different in rural communities in other parts of the world, I would think. I'm just speculating here, though. I've not read stats from other countries, as mentioned before.

While there are many benefits to marrying an older man, as you've listed above, one big disadvantage is that men, in general, lack emotional intelligence, so they don't always know how to take care of their wives emotionally. Many older men can be controlling and inconsiderate, even when they mean well. I'm guessing this is why the stats show many women flocking to younger men for their 2nd and 3rd marriages. They may feel being the older one gives them the upper hand, that instead of being controlled, they'll be the ones doing the controlling. It usually doesn't work that way for women, though, since women are overall more mature than men. Instead of getting someone who is cooperative but still a mature man, often older women end up with these oversized man children who they have to support financially, emotionally. So six of one half a dozen of the other.

For me personally, if anyone is going to be childish in a relationship it's gonna have to be me because the absolute WORST thing I know is a childish man, who can't take responsibility for anything and look to me to lead him. Yuck! I'll take my chances with an older man. The only way he can control me is if I let him.

Who are you talking about because we certainly don't disagree here? I simply pointed out a statistical fact that you did not seem to be aware of since you wrote in your comment that older men/younger women relationships are more common. They are more common, but not by much. That's what I was saying. I wasn't disagreeing with your post in general. I agree that a 19 yr old being with a 31 yr old is not a big deal. I've said as much throughout this comment section. Reading comprehension is essential to effective communication.

Actually, older women/younger men relationships are more common than you think. Older man, younger woman may be more visible & encouraged by the mainstream, but the reverse is not that far behind. I've read many statistics and empirical research on the subject & they all seem to point to this fact. If 50% of older men have younger wives/gfs, then anywhere from 40 - 45% of older women will have younger husbands/bfs. Statistics for cheating are similar. Women cheat almost just as much as men (shocker ... the way how most people on MDL behave, you'd think women can never do wrong :/ ). Most stats put cheating around 49% for men & 46% for women ... as you can see, not much difference.

As an anecdotal example, pretty much 3 of every 5 women I know are in or have been in some sort of romantic relationship with a younger man. My mom was together with a younger man 10 yrs her junior when I was a teenager. One of my best friends dated a younger guy, 11 yrs her junior, for 3 yrs. And I know of countless others. So yeah, common but not popular (though, Korea & Japan certainly seem to be trying to do something about that). Personally, one reason why I don't watch noona romances is because in real life ow/ym relationships tend to be less successful than the opposite, in general, according to statistics & my personal experience. Women are also generally more mature than men. I just can't buy into the relationship because I feel like the older woman always end up literally being a mother to the guy and I'm not into that. I'm sure this isn't the case for every such relationship, but nah, don't care. I like grown men who can take care of business.

Pay attention, will you? Did you even read my comment? Did I deny there are dramas in which the ML is vastly older than the FL? No, I did not. Let me spell it out for you, since you seem to lack reading comprehension: the point of my comment was to highlight the rabid *hypocrisy* of everyone's acceptance for noona romances with huge gaps, but at the same time have the audacity to bash this, and other dramas, for having a ML who is older than the FL. THAT was the point. You're probably among those who love spouting off about MLs being too old for the FLs, but squeal over these cringy ass noona romances with massive age gaps.

Now that you mention it, y'all were on Mr. Sunshine's page too, popping off at the mouth about how old the ML was, but go look at the page for Secret Love Affair, a drama in which the FL was 20 yrs older than the ML. Witch Romance's, the actress was 40 something when they filmed that drama while the ML was in his early 20s. Ain't nobody had a problem with that, but you coming to talk about Mr. Sunshine. Listen, miss me with that BS. I have very little patience for feeble minded arguments, so don't come at me with nonsense. Or I'll dog walk you. I'm done talking. Y'all be getting on my last damn nerve!

Yeah, that would be a waste of your time because I'm not here for it.

I believe in equity between the sexes too, however, I don't necessarily call that feminism. Modern day feminism is highly problematic to me (as some of the attitudes on this page, on this website attest). But that's just me. However, for the sake of responding to you, let's just use the word 'feminism' ... there's feminism, then there's toxic feminism. Do you know the difference? My comment above refers to the latter, not the former.

Exactly! Every new drama with an older man, younger woman you hear the same b*tching. Toxic feminism on full display.

Well, Sara, you sound rather silly ... to me.

The irony about these comments bashing the ML for being too old and ugly is that a lot of the people on here hating on this couple don't sing the same tune when it comes to noona romances. In fact, watch them squeal over I Hear Your Voice, Encounter (12 yr age gap), Secret Love Affair (20 yr age gap), I Do, I Do, Love & Fortune (12+ yr age gap), Chugakusei Nikki, Something In The Rain, Witch's Romance (14 yr age gap - FL literally looked like his mother), Last Cinderella (14 yr age gap), You're My Pet & all those other dramas in which female teachers in their 20s & 30s abuse their positions by having sexual relations with their students who are 14 & 15 yr old etc. Yes, I went and checked some of y'alls profiles. Your toxic feminism is showing and it's ugly AF.

Do you really dislike age gaps or do you just dislike them when the man is older? If that's the case, have the balls to say that instead of acting all righteous, talking about this is pedophilia. Nothing about this relationship is pedophilia. Go look up the damn word. She's 19, he's 31 - he's 12 yrs older than her. And? They're both of age. She's young, but still a full consenting adult. He's not old enough to be her father (which for me personally is the only time an om/yw age gap relationship becomes problematic). But again, would y'all be THIS up in arms about the age gap if it were the FL who was older? Somehow, I doubt that! You people are really full of it.

Listen, I don't like noona romances, but its for no other reason than the fact that when it comes to age I think women should always have the upper hand of being the younger, fresher one. Works better in our favour, in my opinion. Otherwise, IDGAF! Are they all grown, consenting adults? Then people can do whatever the heck they want! I swear to God MDL attracts the most immature, ridiculous viewers I've ever come across. Ugh! I can't with all of you!

Ok thanks, as much as I like Jin Wook, I'mma have to skip this. No matter how realistic they are, I hate love triangles in k-drama as they tend to overstay their welcome for far too long! I'll just go watch the kisses on YouTube! lol

So is there a very pronounced love triangle and does it last for most of the drama?

Well put.

You're right. It's a dumb assertion. I'm no PSH fan, but it seems like on every drama page people on MDL love bitching that some female isn't strong. As if only kicking butt and shouting signifies 'strength' in a woman. :/ People love jumping on feminist bandwagons, without understanding exactly what they're talking about. smdh