PrettyCarEye

First of all, I am not responsible for your feelings or the fragility of them. That's on you. If you want to focus more on your feelings than my talking points, then that says a lot more about you than it does me.

Secondly, you have added nothing to the actual conversation at hand (which was the FL's use of beauty & sex appeal in the drama & which the two previous posters & I had an exchange about). You swooped in like a white knight ... to what? Put your "manly" support behind the little women ... not because you have any relevant counter arguments to my position on the topic, but because you want to "legitimize" THEIR talking points. Because you're a man & the women can't possibility stand for their own arguments without your validation. Right?

And you're supposedly a "feminist". ::eyeroll::

Well, let me be more "aggressive" & "angry" and say this point blank: you are full of crap. You play dumb & personally attack me. And even that, you failed at ... because you tried to sound superior in your criticisms of me, but only ended up exposing your own disingenuousness.

I am pretty sure I said the following previously:

"Another irrationality is that you seem to think that just because something is defined a certain way in the dictionary, it must be true. Feminism is not a noun, it is a verb. Therefore, it's the sum of its *actions* that defines it, not something somone wrote in a book."

Which makes it clear I am AWARE of the dictionary meaning of feminism, I just don't subscribe to it. I look at how feminism is *PRACTISED*, which is an ACTION ... and what is a verb? An action. NOT how it is formally defined.

Now either you do not read my comments in full, you lack basic comprehension of the English language OR you cherry pick what you choose to understand in your failed attempt to discredit me, which is so typical of people like you. This is exactly the feminist MO: twist & distort people's words, personally attack them, gaslight & manipulate. Well, your proponents might fall for it, buddy, but I sure don't.

I'm ending this here, because talking to you is a waste of time. You can go take your bad faith arguments to someone who will actually buy them. I'm not the one.

Whose's trying to change your mind?

You have not articulated your position clearly enough for me to make an attempt at changing your mind. And even if I did totally understand what you meant, I don't engage in conversation to change anyone's mind. But to unpack logical & illogical talking points.

Anyway, you said "she can see other men even as a friend" ... if you're in a relationship why do you need to entertain "male friends"? There is a difference between "friend" and "acquaintance". A "friend" is more intimate than an acquaintance. Would you want your significant other to be fraternizing with other women as "friends"?

Everyone can develop feelings for people other than their official partners, but that doesn't mean you have to act upon them & start mistreating your partner. That just makes you an asshole.

Furthermore, you should look up the meaning of emotional cheating because clearly you've never heard the term & don't understand what it entails. A lot of people think emotional cheating is worse than physical cheating because it is an abandonment of affection (while physical cheating is just a functional act).

And she absolutely did pursue her feelings for the ML while still very much in a relationship with the BF. What are you talking about? Did we watch the same show??? I watched 12 episodes in full & skipped through about 5 more before I dropped it. That's 17 episodes in which she DID NOT reveal to the BF that she was seeing the ML on the side. In fact, she hid the fact that she was seeing another man from the BF & he only found out about it because he discovered it on his own. THAT is cheating. If what she was doing was so harmless, she wouldn't have refrained from telling him about it.

And I probably could have overlooked her cheating if she wasn't such a bitchy, whiny & unsympathetic character. Here she was cheating on her BF behind HIS back, but she had the audacity to play the victim. I bet if the situation was reversed & the guy was blaming his GF for "making him cheat", you'd be singing a different tune.

Everything you've said is irrelevant. They were still in a relationship, period. They were not broken up. And as long as two people are still together, even if they hate each other & are on the cusp of separation, reconcilation is always possible. I've seen couples who were about to sign their divorce papers, reconsider & reconcile on the spot.

Therefore, as long as you're in a relationship, no matter how imperfect it is, you don't cheat. You leave, make a clean break. Take some time to get over that situation (so you don't bring garbage into the new relationship). THEN move on. Any decent person knows that's the right thing to do.

Before she met the ML, she was still willing to marry the BF even though they both seemed to be only settling for each other. But after she met the ML, she started having attitude & criticising everything the BF did. Which is exactly how cheaters operate. To make themselves feel better, they hyper focus on their partner's shortcomings to justify their cheating.

However, cheating is *always* a choice. A selfish choice. Nobody can force you to cheat; it is a concious decision one chooses to make. So none of what you said makes her behaviour OK. It's all just BS excuses.

Answer the question because I am truly baffled. Are you saying that he *should* want her to see other men??? I'm trying to understand your position because I don't think I am getting it.

You think he's toxic because he doesn't want his woman seeing other men? Huh??
You gotta explain that.

The drama catalogues the tapestry of life in a town somewhere in Japan. The tedium, the mundanity, the dissillusionment & sameness faced by its characters, and indeed, the titular protagonist himself. Everyone is on a search for meaning: "What is the purpose of my life? Is this - the life I'm living - the sum of my existence?".
I have to say, I ended up liking this drama a lot. The writing is subtle and thought provoking, though it doesn't seem to want to impart any particularly deep message. It's a chronicle of these people's lives as it ebbs by, beautiful & unvarnished in a form of quiet desperation. Most of the characters are unsympathetic & morally grey. They engage in immoral behaviours without any sign of remorse, but while I made this observation, I also kept thinking that their husbands were probably out living their own secret life of debauchery, as that seems to be the MO of Japanese life (if you go by the narratives of most jdrama). Everyone's having affairs or living double lives.
The mystery of who Junichi is, was cleverly used to make those existential questions more pronounced in the viewer's mind because the less you know, the more you're given to contemplate what could be the meaning of it all. Junichi's carefree abandon to life's uncertainty vs the women's angst regarding the same was also an interesting juxaposition.
It's a drama for mature audiences. Not because of its sexual content (which was relatively tame & not explicit), but because it necessitates the ability to engage in more than surface level thinking in order to find any enjoyment in it. 7-7,5/10

Sure, because I have a different opinion from you, I must be "angry". Whatever. I will not dignify such an idiotic observation with any further comment.

"Are you asserting that it has been proven that feminists are irrational?"
Yes, I address one such irrationality in the discussion with the posters above. Go & read it. But people a lot smarter & more scholarly than me have also proven it. You should go & read up on that too. Thankfully this new generation is bucking against the propaganda, brainwashing & manipulation.

Another irrationality is that you seem to think that just because something is defined a certain way in the dictionary, it must be true. Feminism is not a noun, it is a verb. Therefore, it's the sum of its *actions* that defines it, not something somone wrote in a book.

Regarding God, are you asking me if I believe in God or are you telling me? And if you're telling me, how do you know? Do you know me personally? I used the term "god-given talents & gifts". Ever thought that "god-given" might be synonymous with "inherent"???

"I assume therefore that you believe misogynists are rational?"
No, I don't believe REAL misogynists are rational. But the thing is, people of your persuasion label everyone who disagree with a feminist position or seek to hold women accountable for bad behaviours they feel entitled to possess because "men got away with it for centuries" ... as misogynists. You want to be free to gaslight, manipulate & strong arm people into a propagandized agenda and if we don't comply then we must hate women. I must hate myself, since I am indeed a woman too. Sir, the delusional is real.

LOL, isn't this kind of response typical of people like you. I mean, I just love when you all talk bull crap & expose yourselves. Truly.

You judge others based on your own incompetence & failure of character. In other words, because YOU look down on women, the vast majority of whom are not interested in your idea of "having standards", but rather prefer to live in their feminine energy without being gaslit into thinking that is wrong or inferior ...

Because YOU think this way, you project your affliction unto me by trying to suggest that I think like you. I don't think like you. That's your character flaw, your small-mindedness & pettiness.

I don't have a problem with women who want to pursue power. I do believe only a minority of women have this objective & a majority of women want a more balanced life (that's how we are biologically wired; not my opinion, science). But the typical MO of identity politicians, like yourself, is to project your own shortcomings & insecurities unto others & insist that exceptions should negate rules.

I told you, I believe in equality of opportunity. I support every woman's right to pursue whatever goal she wants. However, I don't support any entitled expectation that women must get the EXACT same outcome as men because there are sex differences that may make men more biologically predisposed to achieve a certain result. Therefore, insisting that women be handed a result simply because "men have it" & then playing victim when the outcomes aren't the same ... that IS mental illness.

Oh, and I love how you equate the "feminine" with being subservient and lowly. As if the only way for a woman to be feminine is if she's a doormat for society. You constantly prove my point that the feminist position is in fact virulently anti-woman. You believe feminine attributes & pursues are inherently inferior. This insecurity lies deep within women like you, that's why you'll always be resentful, unsatisfied & unhappy.

By the way, so what if a woman wants to ... what did you say "cook & do laundry for a man"? You seem to think that makes her less valuable as a woman. Smdh. A woman who prioritizes the well-being of her family contributes to society just as much, if not more, as the girl boss you seem to think every women should aspire to be & if they don't, then they're useless.

I rest my case. I think your comments speak volumes for themselves. I don't need to say anything else.

Good for you. Most feminists think a lot of things, doesn't make it so.
In fact, I think quite the opposite has been proven. And forgive me if I don't see how your familial relations qualifies you to define anything.

Well, based on the vast majority of comments here, I'm in the minority. But I guess one's liking of the drama may depend on culture & how you approach life personally. I grew up in a culture where people remain upbeat even when life's going to shit & personality wise, I'm naturally an extrovert with a positive outlook. I know life can be a B, but like prisoners say "Do the time, homeboy, don't let the time do you!". That's my approach to hardship. I like watching shows with characters who struggle & get knocked down, but stay optimistic. Even though the characters here had very good reasons to be upset (and the ultimate message is that people need love & support to not lose hope), the constant gloominess and pessimism made it difficult for me to relate.

If this were a movie, I doubt I would have had the same complaint because the shorter format would make it less immersive. However, 16 episodes of melancholy, sadness & depression is not for me personally. I want to watch dramas that are uplifting, perhaps a little bittersweet, thought provoking, romantic & cute. That's my kind of drama! A good example would be something like Prison Playbook. :)

Both! Now when I watch him on screen & daydream about being his wife lol, I still can't believe I was actually in the same room, much less within touching distance of him. I regret so much not talking him & finding out what kind of person he is. From what I saw he seemed very friendly and open to talking to everyone.

Now that I'm a big fan of his, I want to go back in time & give him a hug & some words of encouragement about how much I love his work. But Berlinale is such a huge festival & there are usually sooooo many people. I think I was more focused on meeting the actors & creators of movies I had watched & liked.

Hyun Binney had a movie at the festival that year, that's why he was there, but I didn't watch it so it wasn't a priority for me to seek him out. However, even back then, when I didn't know of him or was a fan of his, I was still struck by how absolutely handsome he is! :)

You wouldn't be wrong. But I don't think it's limited to "dramas like this". Most of their dramas & films are characterized by doom & gloom, unless it's specifically a romcom or maybe a family drama. Hard to get a serious & mature drama, without all the heavy melodrama, death, terminal illness and what have you. So pessimistic.

The ending is happy in the sense that the drama ends with the leads happy together, BUT the ML is terminally ill so we know their HEA will likely not last for a very long time. Thankfully, though, we're spared seeing him die on screen.

My introduction to Asian entertainment was via movies on the film festival circuit. Old Boy, I Saw The Devil, Nameless Gangster, Drug War, A Touch of Sin ... were movies that opened up my horizons to Asian cinema & I loved it. I sought out more films in my spare time & came across A Moment To Remember. That's when I truly fell into the rabbit hole. I loooved that movie & I wanted to see more of JWS, so I checked out his filmography, thinking I'd watch a few more of his films, but then I saw that he had done a drama in 2011 called Padam Padam. I thought, great, the longer format is even better bcuz that meant spending more time looking at his beautiful face! haha

And so Padam Padam became my very first K-drama in 2012, and was my segeway into other Asian dramas. I don't remember now what my firsts were from the other countries. All I know is that I'm still here 12 years later even though I'm way pickier now with what I watch.

Fun fact: I stood right next to Hyun Bin & had every opportunity to talk to him at the Berlinale Film Festival back in 2011. He's just as gorgeous irl as he is on the screen. Anyway, I had no interest in talking to him because I didn't know who he was at the time. A year & a half later I joined MDL & came across him in the drama The World They Live In. I was so bummed that I had the opportunity to interact with this gorgeous, talented man, but I squandered it due to my own ignorance! LOL

I hated the storyline with Dong Jin's ex. Beyond a certain narrative point, I don't know why she was there. I don't mind that she was introduced because her comeback into his life was necessary to show how much the breakup devastated him & it was also good for her to realize what she threw away, a good man who had loved & cherished her. But after that she should have been written out of the story. I had no interest in seeing her personal struggles. It was irrelevant to the main storyline & just felt like unnecessary filler.

It pissed me off too that it was hinted at that DJ's bff & business partner, Sun Woo, may have had a thing for her. I mean, come on, man! WTF??? Not only is she your best friend's ex, she's also the asshole who cheated on him, dumped him like trash & sent him into a depressive tailsspin for over 3 yrs. How about some loyalty??? Where's your bro code? I really liked Sun Woo's good natured character, but he really started to get on my nerves when he kept on meeting her & making excuses for her. Also Woojoo meeting up with her, drinking with her & cleaning her apartment ... why??? Smdh ...

Which brings me to another thing I hated about the drama. All the men were basically simps. They don't hold women accountable for their horrible behaviour, instead they blame themselves ... even when they didn't do anything wrong. Or make excuses for them. Dong Jin knew his ex was cheating on him for over a year & he never confronted her about it. He probably never would have either, if she hadn't dumped him. He would've just continued to allow himself to be cucked. Smdh. And for sure, if he hadn't met Woo Joo before her reappearance, the fool would have taken her back because the guy was a complete doormat. Jun, the pharmacist, is the type of guy red pillers would have a field day in disecting for being the ultimate "cleanup guy". LOL, if you know you know.

I find men like these repellant. You can be a good man without being a fool, esp for undeserving women. I hate it when dramas try to tell us that the only way for a man to be good, is for him to be a simp. Nobody likes it when FLs put up with nonsence from MLs, so why is it okay the other way around? Do women really like that kind of man? No, they don't. That kind of man gets cheated on & abused, just as DJ was.

One good thing I can say, though, is that Dong Jin's character was written sensibly, I'll give the writer that. F.eg. when he found out about Woo Joo's deception, he could have gone off on her & jumped to conclusions, but he didn't. Because by that time, he had already gotten to know Woo Joo. He knew the kind of person she was. If she did something bad, there was probably a (good, to them) reason, so it made perfect sense that he'd give her the benefit of the doubt & allow her to explain herself before taking any kind of action. I can't tell you how many times I've watched dramas where one of the leads turn on their lover without giving them the benefit of the doubt. Even when they know the behaviour is inconsistent with who they know the person to be. That always annoyed me because nobody who actually cares about their partner behaves that way. So you know it's a result of sloppy writing. The writer can't think of any other way to create conflict so they make the characters behave against type.

Well, what can I say. This was a reasonably well crafted slice of life with well crafted characters. But it was neither MY kind of slice of life nor MY kind of characters. It's not that there was anything inherently wrong or bad about the leads or supporting cast. Everyone was very human -- perfectly flawed, but still good people. I guess I just like more exuberant, cheerful characters even when they're depressed & going thru hard times.

Dong Jin & Woo Joo wallowed a bit too much in their own self-pity for my liking. The drama moved at a slow, calming pace, which wasn't so much of an issue for me, but the slow pace coupled with a constant tone of melancholy, with no repreive from the heavy emotions of the characters, was too over the top. The leads' moppiness throughout was like a dark cloud. I was sympathetic to their situations, but felt emotionally weighed down by them at the same & ain't nobody got time for that. I'm not in the business of watching dramas to get my mood put down in the dumps. But this was kinda what this drama did, just pure misery from start to finish. At some point I continued to watch only to finish it, not because I was invested. I actually couldn't wait for it to end.

I was also super disappointed with the romance. We got exactly one kiss & 2, maybe 3, hugs. In 16 episodes. Granted, it was a pretty good kiss. But for 16 eps & so much heavy melodrama, the least they could have done is give us a few sweet moments of repreive - kisses, cuddles, back hugs ... smiles! I think DJ & Woo Joo smiled only a handful of times, if so much, in 16 episodes. But that's K-dramas for yah. Every time I think we're moving away from the era of boring, unnatural romance, I'm reminded that no, actually we're not. We're sticking to the 1989 version of K-drama romance. Sigh ...

Anyway, some things about the plot itself that I didn't like & which contributes to a 6/10 score, in the spoiler below.

Perhaps if you read more memoirs, you'd have something more interesting to add to the conversation than reguritated feminist propaganda.

Our biological predisposition is not a social construct. Feminity is inherent to MOST women. Even the most staunch feminists knew this. Simone de Beauvoir, perhaps feminism's most prominent scholar, said herself, paraphrasing: "If given the choice, women will not leave the home; so we must force them & give them no other choice".

Most women & most men choose completely opposite paths. It doesn't mean one path is more "superior" than the other (or that a small minority doesn't chose other paths). They're just different & often complementary paths. But instead of celebrating & elevating feminine pursuits, feminists degrade and devalue it. It's totally insane & ironic to me that this is supposedly a movement for the so-called "empowerment" of women. But women themselves devalue female power. Make it make sense.

You can't because the whole movement is BS. It has & always was about is ego, greed, power. Feminists want to compete with men. They want to take men down off their perceived "high horse". Fine, go ahead. But don't gaslight the majority of women who ultimately don't want that into believing their objectives & god given positions are "inferior". That's the most anti-woman crap, if ever I've heard any.

Cultural expectations may reinforce - for better & worse - sex differences. And I will gladly acknowledge & discuss the extent to which such reinforcements should be encouraged or not, because there nuances to everything. But what I'm not interested in is victim mentality (women only perceived in a "weaker" position) and misandry (men are the inherent enemies & oppressors of women).

You claim striving for "equality of outcome" is virtuous. No, it is impossible because you can't bend reality. 1 + 1 = 2. Always. Women are women & men are men. They have complementary talents and gifts. Exceptions do not negate rules. While everyone should have equal opportunity, the goal to reshape society to reflect the delusions of the few should not be catered to.

I'm sorry, but all you've written is a whole lot of idealistic nonsense that has no basis in reality.

First of all, there is no such thing as a "rational feminist" as no rational person will label themself a "feminist". Feminism is inherently a flawed & irrational ideology (more & more people are realizing that now) that bamboozled generations of men & women into thinking it was/is a movement about "equality" when it is & has always been a movement that catered to the inferity complexes of a certain subsection of society (females & males) & whose main aim is to sow discord & division between the sexes.

That said, do I wish life & human nature was as you - a feminist - describe? Yes. That would absolutely be a beautiful utopia. However, there is no such utopia. There is simply objective truth & there is idealistic realism that exist only in the minds of its arbiters.

A brilliant mind is valuable & an asset to everyone, however, for women specifically, so is beauty & allure. It is merely a tool, just like a brilliant mind is also a tool, that a woman can use to her advantage ... and is indeed the MAIN tool, most women who are blessed with it, use to get their will. Therefore, I see no issue in its representation on screen. Now, could there be more representation of women who are not so lucky to have beauty & allure at their advantage? Sure. But to cry misogyny on the basis that the former is shown is completely disingenious & false.

"These differences aren't to be used as shackles, binding individuals to predetermined roles or dictating who climbs the corporate ladder. "

You feeling "shackled" by objective truth, is of your own mind. It doesn't mean that your perception of reality is ... reality. Reality is what it is ... it does not change simply because we FEEL it must. It just is. 1 + 1 will always equal 2, not 2.1 or 3. I accept reality, even if I wished it were different. I don't agonize over things I can not change. I don't blame & hate on men because I am envious of the fact that they may have certain biological advantages that I - as a woman - don't have. What's the point? They didn't create themselves & they didn't create me.

"The solution to inequality isn't for women to accept or celebrate an inferior position."

See, it's interesting that you claim my statements are contradictory, but this comment of yours, to me, is as contradictory as ever. Here's why: Because you yourself, by making this comment, don't value the feminine contribution. You call the female position "inferior", rather than simply "different" from the male position. Because of your own inferiority complex, because YOU personally feel inferior to men, you degrade the feminine contribution. You look at feminine contributions in society as less than, but place a high value on the masculine. And you blame men for their biological attributes that they have no control over.

To me, that is the weirdest thing ever. This is why you see a woman using one of the most powerful tool she has in her tool box as "inferior", "sexist" and "misogynistic".

Is it men's fault that women are not as swayed by sex appeal & allure as men are, or is that a fundamental biological difference that neither men nor women can control? So why get mad about it? As I said, if straight men could use sex appeal as a tool in the same way as straight women, they would. And I'm sure that would be depicted on screen if it were as widespread as the opposite. The operative word here being "widespread" ... as I am sure SOME men do get by on their sex appeal, but likely not most. And likely not as much as women.

These are the nuances people of your persuasion don't reflect on. Your automatic assumption is to play the victim, everything & everyone is deliberately being misogynistic toward me. Wah wah wah wah.

I don't see men as superior to women in any way. I see that men & women have unique talents & attributes that are inherent to their sex. There are always exceptions to every rule, but the exception never negates the rule. Therefore, while I am 100% for equality of opportunity, the demand for equality of outcome is a fool's errand that will trigger continuous mental illness.

"How can you claim that men and women are different, and predict that a female-dominated society would be no different from a male-dominated one? Your claims are crumbling beneath the weight of their contradictions."

No, your inability to think rationally is what's crumbling.
Human nature - as in the basic desires & instincts of human beings - is universal, regardless of race, colour, creed, culture or nationality. That's why if you're from the West, like me, you can watch Asian dramas & relate to the characters. That's why I know a lesbian utopia wouldn't be much different in defining beauty as a woman's most valuable asset. Because ALL human beings put a premium on beauty, ALL. Show me a culture on earth where beauty is not alluring? Show me. Please.

She pissed me off too much in Because This is My First Life.