Suliabryon

I agree with you, 100%. They are really giving this their all. I have to be honest. This show is NOT my usual kind of watch. I started it on a bit of a lark because I was caught up on everything I was currently watching. I didn't expect to still be watching it. I didn't expect it to be the show I most looked forward to on the weekend. Is it silly at times? Yes. But it's also surprisingly deep and with emotional beats that resonate with people. I think it's saying some important things about the industry. I think the actors are doing such a great job. I read comments of people dragging them and I'm like...why don't YOU try to act. What exactly is so terrible? Honestly, people need to chill and realize that a show doesn't have to be perfect to be good. Save has really impressed me with his acting in this. He's had the most emotional moments to convey, and he's done an amazing job with them.

I get it! A smirk or smile can convey different things and if your life experience has been negative with that kind of body language, it makes complete sense why your initial impression of it would be something more sinister! But I don't get those vibes from Third, especially since he himself was a victim of Nine's behavior and his mother's gaslighting and bullying in the past. ❤️

I think that entire NC scene was about love, not just sex. The emotion was so palpable throughout the scene and the entire thing felt so intimate and beautiful. One of the best NC scenes I've seen because of that. I actually did a huge long write up/comment further down thread about it, but things move so fast here they get lost quickly.

I don't think so AT ALL. Those smirks read to me like a man enjoying his BF's response to him. So...hear me out. Wan has been the one hesitant in this relationship, the one saying "too fast" or putting boundaries up when Third is clearly ready for more kissing, more physical skinship, etc., which we all know is because Wan is young and inexperienced and obviously has a lot of anxiety about taking these steps (and as we saw in the NC scene, about being vulnerable and probably worried his body will disappoint Third etc. It felt so real and so sweet.) When Third smirks, it's because he feels so satisfied and pleased because the way Wan is reacting tells him Wan DOES like him/want him just as much as he wants him. He also smiled looking at Wan's body - the kind of smile of a guy enjoying the view. None of it feels mean to me at all. Especially when you consider how patient and restrained Third was throughout the NC scene. He let Wan set the pace. He specifically was so gentle and slow with him, checking in with him to make sure he was okay and felt comfortable. He only progressed forward when Wan relaxed. It was beautiful.

That was not a sex scene, that was lovemaking between a couple who share a deep emotional connection and yearning for one another. The emotion throughout the scene was PALPABLE. It felt like an intrusion to watch.

This show just keeps surprising me. I came into it expecting some surface level entertainment. Nothing deep. Nothing even all that good, and yet it keeps digging into these complicated and deeply felt emotions that resonate so strongly with the audience. Who doesn't understand Wan's heartbreak at learning how Nine truly thinks of him? Who didn't feel the love and awkward shyness and deep yearning between Wan and Third as they shared their first time together?? These are core emotional experiences that people can empathize with and feel so clearly as they watch the show.

For people who thought that scene was rushed - are you talking about JUST the last part where they actually have sex? Because that was honestly the smallest part of this entire OVER TEN MINUTE SEQUENCE. It starts 58 minutes in when they start kissing, and goes all the way to the credits popping on the screen at 1:11 minutes...that is, all told...12-13 minutes of NC scene! There was NOTHING rushed about it.

Let me explain a little from a storytelling POV. (I'm an author. I write romance. And I feel a good sex scene needs to accomplish the same things in BL that it does in a romance novel.) Any good NC scene has to MATTER for the characters. It shouldn't just be for the sake of sex. It should do some of the heavy lifting in a romance, carrying the characters forward emotionally. It should be a pivotal moment in the story and in the character arcs. And this scene is all of that and more, and you don't see that everyday in BL.

For anyone who felt it was awkward - well, you probably felt that because it WAS awkward -- for Wan. Save did a PHENOMENAL job conveying that, how shy and uncertain he felt. His insecurity in this moment of enormous vulnerability came through so clearly, *I* felt it myself for him! And let's talk about Auau for a minute. His confidence in this scene as Third. His RESTRAINT. Because Third has made it clear since the first kiss they shared that he is ready to take things further, that his feelings for Wan are strong and he wants to be physical with him and is ready for that step. Every step of the way, Wan has been the one to say "too fast" and put up boundaries. And there was something deeply beautiful in this scene about Wan's shy embarrassment and Third slowing himself down and going at Wan's pace. Third is the one leading, but he let's Wan dictate the speed at which things occur, and he reassures Wan at each moment. 🥹 Not with words, but with his actions, his expressions, his EYES and the way he watched Wan. (Man, Auau did SUCH great work here. That hug he pulls him into? ❤️)

Honestly, I cannot BELIEVE that this is Auau and Save's first real NC scene together. (Their previous turn as a secondary couple if I recall right was mostly just kissing, wasn't it?) The emotion conveyed and the trust and vulnerability between the actors feels like it's from a pair who have done this many times before. Because Save might have been able to pull on his real life anxiety and nerves for doing this scene to make Wan's vulnerability feel so real, but the way Auau is with him - so accepting, gentle, and yet still passionate - is not something that first-time-jitters would lend itself to. So, bravo to the actors because DAMN. This might not be the most explicit NC scene I've seen in BL, (although it isn't lacking in that, either) but it CERTAINLY is one of the most emotional.

It feels so beautiful and intimate and satisfying to watch because honestly, it feels real, and it makes the characters feel real.

Does it show them grabbing a condom and lube? No. But that's just BL for you. VERY RARELY does that kind of thing ever get shown. It's just hand waved away, maybe because production thinks it will detract from the sexiness of the scene. I would argue though that most often, and certainly here if it had been included, it would have shown Third's caring for Wan even more. But the lack of those details is a small quibble, honestly.

Every moment felt so real, so earned, and so beautiful. From Third being so patient and gentle with Wan until Wan could relax enough to be comfortable, to how quickly they rushed through the actual sex part. Wan barely being able to handle Third giving him a blow job before he has to stop him is another example - because he's young and inexperienced, it's his first time, he's so nervous and Third is very good looking. Poor Wan must have been so intimidated and turned on at the same time.

Just, bravo to everyone and however long they spent filming this 12 minutes, because it was worth it. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

I mean…you almost never see those things in BL. Not to mention any kind of prep. We’re just supposed to ignore that, lol.

RIGHT???

IDK if this company just doesn't do this as much as other companies, but I am REALLY READY for more BTS content from this drama and episode reactions with the actors. Like, I would pay good money for that.

100%. Bank is absolutely blowing me away. I'm just a tiny bit in love with him.

I just...why do people feel the need to come here just to say they're dropping the show? Have you NOT been in these comments before and seen the MANY spoilers from the novel? That ALL of the characters are red or BLACK flags? As for violence....the trailer was PRETTY VIOLENT Y'ALL. We haven't even SEEN that violence happen yet. And yet people are surprised and disgusted. Okay. Not every show is everyone's cup of tea, but coming to the comment section just to express how disgusted you are and that you're dropping the show, or worse, to LECTURE about how WRONG this is and disgusting - basically calling out everyone from the showrunners and novelist, to anyone who is enjoying the show...WHY? Just leave. Look, DARK ROMANCE is a legit genre of romance. And, newsflash as someone who is an author active in the author and reader community, it's VERY POPULAR. And everyone has different lines or different levels that they can accept or that they like to consume.

Maybe it isn't your cup of tea, but there are A LOT OF REASONS IT IS for other people. Did you know it's actually extremely common for people who have experienced SA and s3xual trauma to gravitate toward darker dub-con and non-con fiction? Lots of people have gone to therapy to help them understand that about themselves and accept it, and you all are out here trying to shame people about it. Like...just leave. You don't have to like it yourself. you don't have to understand why others do. But it's fiction. No one is hurting anyone else by liking a black flag drama. And trust me when I say you aren't going to change anyone's mind by coming here and posting negatively about it.

Again, the trailer made it PRETTY CLEAR that this is a darker story with violence. And there have been PLENTY of spoilers online, here in this very comment section. We even had a dub-con/non-con scene last episode that might have served as a bit of a warning for what was to come. And a quick google search once it was known this was based on an existing novel would have warned people as well.

I just...don't understand. If you don't like a drama. maybe just drop it and move on to something you like.

Force didn't exist in the novel as far as I know, so no one knows where that storyline is going....or how it might change the novel storyline, which is....very dark when it comes to Itt.

No, you're not. The show has kept the focus so much on Yok and Ing that there haven't been a lot of clues, that and Copter is playing Yok as very closed off and keeping his emotions under tight control. But it HAS been there in a subtle way, in the way Yok does anything for Itt. He didn't want to intern at the company, he only did that so Ing would take Itt on as well. He approached Ing early on only to make him do the things that would make Itt happy...going to his birthday party, telling him happy birthday, etc. Easy to miss the underlying "I LIKE like you" not just "You are my BFF". I also think the show wanted it to be ambiguous whether or not Yok was into men.

I got the epub linked in the discussion posts up above!

Okay, first of all, the show definitely WAY toned down the rape from the novel. For anyone curious about the novel, the fight is much more intense. they beat the CRAP out of each other. It's the culmination of Yok reaching his breaking point. But Ing does continue to s3xually taunt him throughout the fight, groping him, provoking him with his words, and Yok, already enraged and out of control and dealing with so many humiliations he has endured because of Ing, snaps and just feels this desperate need to assert power over Ing in a way that Ing will understand, and that will humiliate Ing in the same way he has been humiliated. (What happened last episode when he was drunk also happens in the novel.) And he IS unwillingly attracted to Ing, and all of that toxic emotional mess and the physical fight changes to him tying Ing up and forcing him to bottom/raping him.

And because Ing is so beat up from the fight, he isn't able to effectively resist. The show really toned down the fight and the assault, honestly. Even in the middle of it, Ing says "Only you want me to bottom. I would only ever let you do this to me." He's mocking Yok, but that is ALMOST consent. "I'm LETTING you do this to me."

And it's true in both the show and the book that the thing Ing is MOST upset about is being forced to bottom. He's hurt physically, but the most wounded thing in all of this is his ego and pride. Even in the aftermath when Yok asks him "what can I do?" his response is "turn around and let me have you. Then we're done." He is STILL. OBSESSED. With having Yok.

And obviously two wrongs do NOT make a right, and what Yok did was way over a line and is definitely assault and rape, but I think it's an interesting dynamic that BOTH of them are now guilty of forcing themselves on one another. In many ways, this is a a battle of egos and power dynamic between two people who still want to f*** each other. And I use that word deliberately here, because it's not any kind of love at this point in the story. Yok may not have wanted to be attracted to Ing, but I think there is no question at this point that he is. (And, spoiler alert...he only becomes more so after this. In many ways, he becomes as obsessed with Ing as Ing is with him.)

I have questions, too, about the kiss on the docks. I feel like Yok might have been awake for that and allowed it to happen. When Itt shows up, he doesn't seem particularly surprised or alarmed except that Itt witnessed it. IDK, it feels ambiguous to me.

That's not true. I am reading the novel now and what happened in ep 3 ALSO happened in the novel.

So, since making my comment I actually started reading the novel, and now my POV has changed. I'm not done, of course, but I would now argue that those scenes are integral to the story and the arc of the characters. I know people will argue about that - people who just hear the word 🍇 or SA and that's all they hear or understand about the story, but it's actually a lot more nuanced than that. The book goes into HOW and WHY it happens. The fight is a culmination of all of the chapters that came before it (I'm going to use drama character names here just for ease) with Yok reaching his breaking point. He goes to confront Ing looking for a fight, WANTING to beat the crap out of him, blaming him, hating him - and, I think, hating himself a little bit, too. And that fight is terrible. It's vicious, it's spans the whole room, both of them are angry, but it's also very clear in the novel that the attraction and desire that has been simmering all along is still there, and it takes different forms for each of them. Ing starts taunting Yok, who is already past any point of control, who is DONE letting Ing have power over him and determined to prove it -- and who the novel reminds us again and again is young and inexperienced in matters of attraction and s3x, and Yok's anger and attraction twist into this toxic need to assert himself over Ing in a way Ing will understand, and to humiliate him as he himself has felt humiliated and powerless time and again.

It's so well done. It's broken. It's terrible. But it isn't ONLY those things.

IDK, I don't want to go into a full on analysis of the book and the characters here, but I firmly believe the show needs to NOT shy away from what happened in the book in the show. And after today's episode, I don't think they will. We saw so many nuanced dynamics in the non-con scene today. Bank freaking NAILED that scene. So did Copter, for that matter. I wrote a whole comment about the acting in this drama.

Anyway, I'm in for the whole thing, I think.

NP! I'll definitely give you a heads up tomorrow because the trailer makes me think we're approaching the pivotal scene I mentioned...but I think it will probably not actually happen until ep 5, but I could be wrong.

I laughed SO hard when his secretary abandoned him, too! He's like wait don't leave me! And she was out of there. 😂

But yes, agreed on everything. And...Yok ALSO kissed Ing back a little bit in that scene. You can argue he was drunk so regardless, unable to consent. But he is not immune to Ing, and while he's still acting like he isn't at least bi-curious, he is DEFINITELY Ing-curious. 👀 AND...not that I've studied it, or anything, but Ing stopped holding Yok's hands down before he started the, um, BJ. You see his hand on Yok's abs, and obviously, Yok has a free hand by the time he grabs Ing's hair. I consider this scene more dubious consent than non-consent. Because Yok may not voice it, but he does give in to Ing and what's happening here. And that wasn't out of fear or whatever, that was desire. Clouded judgment desire, but desire all the same.

😂 Girl, same! Honestly, to me BL is just a love story. They're just romance dramas that happen to feature two male leads. The tropes are all the same as M/F romance.

I'll send you a friend request and a message. If you want, I'll send you a heads up after I watch each ep. I don't mind.