How Shuhe addresses Zi'ang: First of all, let me say that I am not an expert in Chinese or Chinese naming conventions, (esp. in a historical setting). If you know Chinese, a lot of danmei/wuxia/xianxia – please correct me if I’m wrong. ;)
But I know a little and would like to share that the way Shuhe addresses Zi'ang in the drama is layered and not random.
In episode 1, we learn that Zi'ang and Shuhe were childhood friends but haven't seen each other in 10 years. As a child, Shuhe called Zi'ang "Zi'ang-gege" 子昂哥哥. As adult he doesn't, he switches to "Duan-xiong"段兄.
To address someone as [surname]-xiong is common, it shows respect but also politeness and emotional distance. It shows that even though they were childhood friends, they are no longer that close.
For most of episodes 1-6, Shuhe keeps calling Zi'ang "Duan-xiong".However, there are exceptions:
In episode 4, just after Shuhe and Zi'ang returned from the festival wearing the masks, Shuhe is outside of Zi'ang’s room, just about to enter, asking him to drink some more. He calls him "Zi'ang-Xiong" 子昂兄 – so [first name]-xiong. This shows that he respects Zi'ang, but also feels comfortable with him, and the emotional closeness is reflected in the way he calls Zi'ang.
It is just before Shuhe discovers Zi'ang with Consul Wang. Because Zi'ang is inside and Consul Wang of the Red Shadow Guards informed him that the Crown Prince’s men have discovered their hideout. Now this changes things quite a bit, because all of a sudden, Shuhe has real proof that he has been lied to. And again, this is reflected in the way he addresses Zi'ang. It is when they are in the woods, shooting arrows, and Shuhe interrogates and warns Zi'ang not to lie again, Shuhe says: "Zi'ang, trust is a fragile thing." Not "Zi'ang-xiong" or "Duan-xiong", just "Zi'ang", without any suffix. Now this is emotionally quite loaded. Calling someone’s first name, no last name, no suffix, is the most intimate way you can address someone, the most "emotionally naked" form. The typical context is close friends, lovers, or moments of vulnerability or confrontation. In this case, it very much reads like the latter: as confrontational, and it amplifies the charged nature of this sentence.
In episode 7, when Zi'ang and Shuhe are talking about the poem of Zi'ang’s mother, Shuhe calls him just "Zi'ang" again. In this instance, I would say it just shows that they are now lovers and conveys their intimacy.
Crucially, after episode 8, Shuhe NEVER adresses Zi'ang as anything but "Zi'ang" or "Duan Zi'ang". To me, I would say this reads as a) emotional closeness, but b) I think also that the trust / respect Shuhe had for Zi'ang died the moment Zi'ang’s sword cut through Shuqian’s body. Something broke irreparably the night on the bridge. And one more thing about Zi'ang-gege 子昂哥哥 and Shuhe-didi 殊鶴弟弟： They only use it when they are children. As adults they never call each other Zi'ang-gege or Shuhe-didi. The only time in the drama they think of the other as Zi'ang-gege and Shuhe-didi as adults is in their thoughts in episode 2. This is explicitly tied to them thinking about the past. Here it means "I don't know how if this (adult/assassin) Zi'ang is still the same as the boy I used to know"
I am glad that overall you enjoyed the series. I only would like to say that I am an avid viewer of all kind of…
I’ve known MarazulOx since the series came out, and I can tell you she is very moral and correct, so people working for free (or only receiving a meal)didn’t sit right with her. ;) in both our countries this wouldn’t be okay… I guess we’re just baffled that a few seconds of AI made you drop the rating -4 points. Especially when you enjoyed the rest. But you are of course entitled to your opinion. ☮️
I am glad that overall you enjoyed the series. I only would like to say that I am an avid viewer of all kind of…
I think you underestimate what extras would cost. :) Even if they agreed to work for free, I'm not sure this is even legal (I think in my country it wouldn't - because what if someone injures themself during filming?). Secondly, how do the extras get to the set? What if the filming lasts more than one day? Are they supposed to pay for their accommodations and travel expanses themselves? XD What about the costumes, weapons etc? @MarazulOx has some BTS scenes where you can see how little budget they had - on the last days of filming they had no light, and were thrown out from the set.
I am glad that overall you enjoyed the series. I only would like to say that I am an avid viewer of all kind of…
This is a genuine question: What would you have done, if you had such a tight budget to only afford one horse and what seems to be ... 5 main actors and ... idk... maybe 10-20 extras (male + female)? How would you show war, armies clashing, horses riding? One day I went through the credits at the end: North Ji's emperor has a double role, even acted as a guard too... That is how little money they had.
And for that I really think that calling it AI slop is sad. The AI images weren't half bad I thought. Would I have preferred real horses, 50 or more extras to truthfully portray a war scene? Sure. But nowadays, even in big productions, they wouldn't have cast that many extras and actually shot the scene, but would have used CGI.
Well, Zi Ang went off the deep end in episode 9, there's no denying that. XDBut his life is also a tragedy, at…
I agree with you, Zi Ang’s greatest failure (I’ve said that before, but it’s buried in many comments) is putting himself and his desires above Shu He’s. In a healthy relationship he should have accepted Shu He’s decisions, his status, his agency—but he did not. Their relationship however is not a healthy one. I’m not a psychologist, but this reads like an extremely unhealthy trauma attachment to me (and exaggerated times 100 because it’s a drama). 😅
Also, you said that Zi Ang is not like that from the beginning, to which... I kind of disagree? He certainly changed, but that is to me more because he was super hurt and couldn't understand Shu He's decisions.
However, I'd say there were warning signs before: They hadn't even confirmed if their feelings for each other were mutual and still: * Zi Ang got himself drunk over an arranged (!) marriage to the point of passing out. *Zi Ang joined the wedding banquet, to which Shu He was very pissed because it could have cost him his life if things went wrong. * Zi Ang drank what was supposed to be poisoned wine, essentially a death sentence, for a man who he didn't know loved him the same way he did.
Sure, on paper this looks fine, but this might just be because in this case, he is somewhat aligned with what the audience wants: grand romantic gestures. But things switch when Zi Ang does "great romantic gestures" which all of a sudden only support him, and not Shu He anymore.
Finally I've finished! And gave it 6 after all... Not sure if it's still too high😅First episodes were kinda…
Well, Zi Ang went off the deep end in episode 9, there's no denying that. XD
But his life is also a tragedy, at least to me. (This is *not* an excuse for his behavior, but) Zi Ang suffered a lot, even if we don't get to see it explored much. His family murdered, separated from his brother/family/friend(s)?, raised as weapon, his real mother executed,...
These were all things he didn't choose, that his life just thrust upon him. So he clings fiercely to the one thing that feels chosen: his love for Shu He. To Zi Ang, love is salvation. Losing it feels like his personal annihilation.
Therefore loves possessively, but he is not intentionally cruel. His devotion is absolute, and it centers on his understanding of what is best. He protects by removing what he sees as obstacles, as threats. Even if the “threat” is Shu He's brother, his agency or his values. Zi Ang just cannot comprehend that Shu He would choose an abstract concept (kingdom, duty, people) or death over him.
so they all die and reunite in the afterlife ~ i usually not like this kind BUT BUTat least the afterlife scene…
It's (after all that Zi'ang has done) really the only ending they could have had... But it's such a strong story, and the characters and their dialogues really stay with you (or at least with me XD). And I do like the ending, it made me a waterfall of tears, but that's fine.
Yes, REAL historical BL with actual kisses (and such a good story, multilayered characters...), it just hits differently. Somehing that compares? Hard (or rather (at least for me) impossible) to find... It's like they opened Pandora's box...
Ok, since I spent a long time pissed with Shu He for the same reason, let me defend him a bit XDDDD1. We must…
Haha, sorry to butt in on your reply to Jasprin. I’m just wording for myself why I still defend ZiAng even though he wronged ShuHe so much. I think for me is a) that ShuHe cannot fully hate him, and therefore I can’t either, b) he never forced himself on ShuHe, even though he could (and honestly, such a low bar, but still I think I have to mention this) c) when ZiAng is vulnerable and nice (like during the lantern festival), he makes you forget about everything else. I can see why ShuHe was hesitant…
Happy new year to everyone in the comments, especially the regulars (you know who you are). <3
Thank you for all the interesting thoughts and insights! Kill to Love has had me in a chokehold since it aired, it made me stop lurking and start to interact with other fans. Let’s continue to show our love and support for the drama, actors and producers in 2026!
It's always so bizarre when people make these kinds of posts on MDL. And a bit passive aggressive too. I know…
Here are my thoughts: Firstly, Shu He loves his brother and clings to the hope that his brother will not harm him, even to the bitter end. Turns out he is wrong, and is even prepared to give his life for it. It also shows how much he does not want to sit on the throne, to be the emperor. Would Shu Qian be a tyrant? Likely. Would he be a better emperor than Shu He? --> That's the real question. In the history books, Shu Qian would have likely been a great leader. Probably kill a few opposing ministers when he ascended, ruling with an iron fist. Strong military presence, maybe invasions and even annexation of neighboring, weaker countries. Ideally brings a lot of gold to the treasury. (Much like Zi Ang later). Would the people of South Hui suffer? Also yes, maybe. It's war after all...
What happened under Shu He? History books: Not a good word about him. What about the people? At least according to Zi Ang (our unreliable source) they wanted to overthrow him. But most of the times this also shows that the emperor has already lost the support of his ministers and his military, because otherwise they would suppress uprisings (poor, suppressed and starving peasants -- like they would have been under Shu Qian -- are not good revolutionaries). In the end, Shu He (and I will defend him that he was not as incompetent as he and Zi Ang claim) was a weak enough leader that North Ji could easily invade South Hui.
So perhaps it's not such a bad choice after all to let his tyrannical brother take the throne and be killed by him? People were suffering regardless.
In ep 4 Zi Ang said: "When the dynasty prospers, people suffer. When the dynasty falls, people suffer."
Regarding Zi Ang: Yes, he put his own desires above what Shu He wanted, Couldn't accept "no" for an answer (when he should have). This is not an excuse, but my answer to this is that for Zi Ang, Shu He was a trauma bond. With the death of his family, he lost everything and was starved for affection. And then he found that -- love, affection -- in Shu He. So all of a sudden he needs him, because Shu He fills that void in him, like he needs air to breathe. Ultimately Zi Ang is not a bad person, he just thinks too much with his heart (*cough* nether regions) than with his brain...
Well, at least that was my POV. I wonder if @Yerisina or @MarazulOX (or even others) have any additional comments…
Hope you’re well too— my love for AngHe is as strong as ever. Whenever you want to talk, I’m checking the comments regularly, so we can always have nice conversations. I think I still owe you a reply too 😅
Well, at least that was my POV. I wonder if @Yerisina or @MarazulOX (or even others) have any additional comments…
Oh Jasprin, thank you for your comment. <3 I could go on and on… I couldn't have written it better. I was contemplating answering, but I feel I defend Shu He so much - he has such a soft spot in my heart. I love both Zi Ang and ShuHe, Yet Zi Ang wronged Shu He a lot in my eyes. So much so that the fact that Shu He took him back just goes to show how much he must have felt for Zi Ang. Especially after he was taken prisoner. But even before that.
Ultimately there is no one reason - it's the sum of everything. But there is a common probl: Zi Ang disrespects Shuhe’s wishes again and again. If you really love someone , you accept their opinion - even if that means no.
Also, I don't think that Shu He "betrayed" Zi Ang. He deceived him (and himself too I suppose) out of self-preservation rather than maliciousness. Never with the intent to hurt Zi Ang. His feelings never once anything but the truth.
It looks like I'm just watching two lovers. If there wasn't a camera, I'd be fooled <3
First of all, let me say that I am not an expert in Chinese or Chinese naming conventions, (esp. in a historical setting).
If you know Chinese, a lot of danmei/wuxia/xianxia – please correct me if I’m wrong. ;)
But I know a little and would like to share that the way Shuhe addresses Zi'ang in the drama is layered and not random.
In episode 1, we learn that Zi'ang and Shuhe were childhood friends but haven't seen each other in 10 years. As a child, Shuhe called Zi'ang "Zi'ang-gege" 子昂哥哥.
As adult he doesn't, he switches to "Duan-xiong"段兄.
To address someone as [surname]-xiong is common, it shows respect but also politeness and emotional distance. It shows that even though they were childhood friends, they are no longer that close.
For most of episodes 1-6, Shuhe keeps calling Zi'ang "Duan-xiong".However, there are exceptions:
In episode 4, just after Shuhe and Zi'ang returned from the festival wearing the masks, Shuhe is outside of Zi'ang’s room, just about to enter, asking him to drink some more. He calls him "Zi'ang-Xiong" 子昂兄 – so [first name]-xiong. This shows that he respects Zi'ang, but also feels comfortable with him, and the emotional closeness is reflected in the way he calls Zi'ang.
It is just before Shuhe discovers Zi'ang with Consul Wang. Because Zi'ang is inside and Consul Wang of the Red Shadow Guards informed him that the Crown Prince’s men have discovered their hideout. Now this changes things quite a bit, because all of a sudden, Shuhe has real proof that he has been lied to.
And again, this is reflected in the way he addresses Zi'ang. It is when they are in the woods, shooting arrows, and Shuhe interrogates and warns Zi'ang not to lie again, Shuhe says: "Zi'ang, trust is a fragile thing."
Not "Zi'ang-xiong" or "Duan-xiong", just "Zi'ang", without any suffix.
Now this is emotionally quite loaded. Calling someone’s first name, no last name, no suffix, is the most intimate way you can address someone, the most "emotionally naked" form. The typical context is close friends, lovers, or moments of vulnerability or confrontation. In this case, it very much reads like the latter: as confrontational, and it amplifies the charged nature of this sentence.
In episode 7, when Zi'ang and Shuhe are talking about the poem of Zi'ang’s mother, Shuhe calls him just "Zi'ang" again. In this instance, I would say it just shows that they are now lovers and conveys their intimacy.
Crucially, after episode 8, Shuhe NEVER adresses Zi'ang as anything but "Zi'ang" or "Duan Zi'ang".
To me, I would say this reads as a) emotional closeness, but b) I think also that the trust / respect Shuhe had for Zi'ang died the moment Zi'ang’s sword cut through Shuqian’s body. Something broke irreparably the night on the bridge.
And one more thing about Zi'ang-gege 子昂哥哥 and Shuhe-didi 殊鶴弟弟：
They only use it when they are children. As adults they never call each other Zi'ang-gege or Shuhe-didi. The only time in the drama they think of the other as Zi'ang-gege and Shuhe-didi as adults is in their thoughts in episode 2. This is explicitly tied to them thinking about the past. Here it means "I don't know how if this (adult/assassin) Zi'ang is still the same as the boy I used to know"
I guess we’re just baffled that a few seconds of AI made you drop the rating -4 points. Especially when you enjoyed the rest. But you are of course entitled to your opinion. ☮️
@MarazulOx has some BTS scenes where you can see how little budget they had - on the last days of filming they had no light, and were thrown out from the set.
One day I went through the credits at the end: North Ji's emperor has a double role, even acted as a guard too... That is how little money they had.
And for that I really think that calling it AI slop is sad. The AI images weren't half bad I thought. Would I have preferred real horses, 50 or more extras to truthfully portray a war scene? Sure. But nowadays, even in big productions, they wouldn't have cast that many extras and actually shot the scene, but would have used CGI.
Also, you said that Zi Ang is not like that from the beginning, to which... I kind of disagree? He certainly changed, but that is to me more because he was super hurt and couldn't understand Shu He's decisions.
However, I'd say there were warning signs before:
They hadn't even confirmed if their feelings for each other were mutual and still:
* Zi Ang got himself drunk over an arranged (!) marriage to the point of passing out.
*Zi Ang joined the wedding banquet, to which Shu He was very pissed because it could have cost him his life if things went wrong.
* Zi Ang drank what was supposed to be poisoned wine, essentially a death sentence, for a man who he didn't know loved him the same way he did.
Sure, on paper this looks fine, but this might just be because in this case, he is somewhat aligned with what the audience wants: grand romantic gestures. But things switch when Zi Ang does "great romantic gestures" which all of a sudden only support him, and not Shu He anymore.
But his life is also a tragedy, at least to me. (This is *not* an excuse for his behavior, but) Zi Ang suffered a lot, even if we don't get to see it explored much. His family murdered, separated from his brother/family/friend(s)?, raised as weapon, his real mother executed,...
These were all things he didn't choose, that his life just thrust upon him. So he clings fiercely to the one thing that feels chosen: his love for Shu He.
To Zi Ang, love is salvation. Losing it feels like his personal annihilation.
Therefore loves possessively, but he is not intentionally cruel. His devotion is absolute, and it centers on his understanding of what is best.
He protects by removing what he sees as obstacles, as threats. Even if the “threat” is Shu He's brother, his agency or his values. Zi Ang just cannot comprehend that Shu He would choose an abstract concept (kingdom, duty, people) or death over him.
Yes, REAL historical BL with actual kisses (and such a good story, multilayered characters...), it just hits differently. Somehing that compares? Hard (or rather (at least for me) impossible) to find... It's like they opened Pandora's box...
Thank you for all the interesting thoughts and insights! Kill to Love has had me in a chokehold since it aired, it made me stop lurking and start to interact with other fans. Let’s continue to show our love and support for the drama, actors and producers in 2026!
Firstly, Shu He loves his brother and clings to the hope that his brother will not harm him, even to the bitter end. Turns out he is wrong, and is even prepared to give his life for it.
It also shows how much he does not want to sit on the throne, to be the emperor.
Would Shu Qian be a tyrant? Likely. Would he be a better emperor than Shu He? --> That's the real question.
In the history books, Shu Qian would have likely been a great leader. Probably kill a few opposing ministers when he ascended, ruling with an iron fist. Strong military presence, maybe invasions and even annexation of neighboring, weaker countries. Ideally brings a lot of gold to the treasury. (Much like Zi Ang later). Would the people of South Hui suffer? Also yes, maybe. It's war after all...
What happened under Shu He? History books: Not a good word about him.
What about the people? At least according to Zi Ang (our unreliable source) they wanted to overthrow him. But most of the times this also shows that the emperor has already lost the support of his ministers and his military, because otherwise they would suppress uprisings (poor, suppressed and starving peasants -- like they would have been under Shu Qian -- are not good revolutionaries).
In the end, Shu He (and I will defend him that he was not as incompetent as he and Zi Ang claim) was a weak enough leader that North Ji could easily invade South Hui.
So perhaps it's not such a bad choice after all to let his tyrannical brother take the throne and be killed by him? People were suffering regardless.
In ep 4 Zi Ang said: "When the dynasty prospers, people suffer. When the dynasty falls, people suffer."
Regarding Zi Ang:
Yes, he put his own desires above what Shu He wanted, Couldn't accept "no" for an answer (when he should have).
This is not an excuse, but my answer to this is that for Zi Ang, Shu He was a trauma bond. With the death of his family, he lost everything and was starved for affection. And then he found that -- love, affection -- in Shu He. So all of a sudden he needs him, because Shu He fills that void in him, like he needs air to breathe. Ultimately Zi Ang is not a bad person, he just thinks too much with his heart (*cough* nether regions) than with his brain...
I couldn't have written it better.
I was contemplating answering, but I feel I defend Shu He so much - he has such a soft spot in my heart.
I love both Zi Ang and ShuHe, Yet Zi Ang wronged Shu He a lot in my eyes. So much so that the fact that Shu He took him back just goes to show how much he must have felt for Zi Ang. Especially after he was taken prisoner. But even before that.
Ultimately there is no one reason - it's the sum of everything. But there is a common probl: Zi Ang disrespects Shuhe’s wishes again and again. If you really love someone , you accept their opinion - even if that means no.
Also, I don't think that Shu He "betrayed" Zi Ang. He deceived him (and himself too I suppose) out of self-preservation rather than maliciousness. Never with the intent to hurt Zi Ang. His feelings never once anything but the truth.
I hope my ramblings make sense...
I would also like to see it get more recognition, it’s just soooo good…