In Ancient China it seemed that the views on love between two men varied greatly depending on the time period.…
Yes, LCJ was an a*$ to Ehuang. She deserved better. He may have written the prettiest poems for her, but that doesn’t make up for cheating on her while she was dying.
Also, while I will defend Shu He any day that he was only partially incompetent as a ruler, and partially failed by a lack of support in the system (based on what we see in the drama), the same doesn’t hold true for LCJ. It seems he was truly an incapable ruler. He should have given the throne to his younger brother (8th prince)…
What I love from the series is that they give us an intense passionate gay love storyline. SuHe and ZiAng were…
Yes, you are right, it is an independent work and not a faithful adaptation of the novel. What we ended up with is a masterpiece.
But I keep thinking that someone was so captivated by the historical figures that they wrote a story about them. Then, someone (a reader I assume) loved the novel (or certain elements of it) so much to base our beloved drama on it. That was my reason to start reading (trying to read) the novel and dig into the history. I wanted to know what was kept, what was removed, and what were the things that made this novel stand out among others, to be chosen as source material, even if it is very different to the end product we saw on screen. 😅
In Ancient China it seemed that the views on love between two men varied greatly depending on the time period.…
For the historical counterparts, I haven't found anything that suggested they were in any kind of romantic relationship (or gay/bi for that matter).
LCJ married Ehuang, but (wikipedia) "cheated on his wife while she was dying. During her last days he also engaged in a secret sexual relationship with Queen Zhou the Younger, the queen's younger sister, who was only around 14 at that time." ...
For ZKY: ZKY married Lady He when she was 16, he 17. The two were deeply in love and their marriage was happy, but she died before his ascension. After her death he married again: Empress Wang, who was 16 at the time of their marriage and 15 years younger than him, but she died young too. He then married for a third time (until his death).
It felt like nobody really cared about homosexuality long back in the days. It was a normal thing. Nobody seemed…
In Ancient China it seemed that the views on love between two men varied greatly depending on the time period. Mostly, it was accepted or tolerated. At times seems that it was even “en vogue” to have a male lover.
However, it came under the condition that the emperor had male sons, so the lineage was preserved.
So yes, it makes sense that Shu He and Zi Ang’s relationship wasn’t much of an issue – they were early in their reign, but I think at some point they would both have been expected to have children.
Li Cong Jia (who Shu He’s is based on) was already married at age 17. In the novel, he is also married to Ehuang before he meets Zhao Kuang Yin (DZA). Ngl, I’m not sad that they removed her. It streamlines things so much. Sometimes I think that the arranged marriage to Wen Jing is a nod in her direction. But for the novel I’m also no expert; I started reading a long time ago, however I’m still stuck in the beginning, and will likely stay that way. 😭🤣 So far in the novel, Ehuang and LCJ have a mostly “nice” relationship – they love each other. LCJ of course develops feelings for ZKY, but the reason that he hides this – I feel like it’s more because he’s cheating (with a Northerner, none the less) rather than the fact that ZKY is male.
A genuine question that has been on my mind from the very beginning: what season does K2L take place in? Spring? Winter? Fall/autumn?
I always assumed early spring (when snowfall is still quite likely), but what is with the red maple leaves? And in episode 3, Shu Qian's servant says while searching for the zither string that the water in the pond is cold in fall. I know, maybe it’s irrelevant, but it keeps bugging me…
It took me a lot longer! ZA hurt SH in every possible way. I love SH's character because he never bought into…
Yeah, I agree. Especially the more often I rewatch, the worse it gets. He hurt him on every level. And yet I am just like Shu He - I can’t hate him. How this drama messes with me and my heart!
It took me less than 2 hours to get a different opinion from ep 6 to 9, its funny how situations change so quickly…
Zi Ang went off the deep end in ep 9.
Although it must be said that warning signs were already there. Like drinking poisoned wine for someone he wasn't even sure reciprocated his feelings (I mean, they flirted heavily, but were still in that "unconfirmed phase"). Or getting drunk to the point of passing out for an arranged marriage, which was obviously for political reasons only. Or gifting a dagger that has been with him for 7 years and he admits has killed 19 people with...
Allegedly all chiefs of the Red Shadow Guard were poisoned to die in their prime, according to DHY. But is he…
Allegedly killed by his brother… From Wikipedia: In folklore, the story known as "shadows by the candle and sounds from an axe" is very popular and suggests that Emperor Taizu was murdered by his brother, who was after the throne.
This is eating me up. How did Zi Ang happen to d*e ?? I did not understand. So when DZA was a Red Shadow guard…
Allegedly all chiefs of the Red Shadow Guard were poisoned to die in their prime, according to DHY. But is he really a reliable source?
I don’t think what we’re told is the truth, since Zi Ang’s uncle looked perfectly healthy to me. IMO at some point DZA was deliberately poisoned by someone. I think it was a targeted attack. By whom - idk. That’s pure speculation on my part, but it’s the way I interpret the situation, it just makes the most sense to me and I will die on that hill.
Here’s what I wrote in my discussion post on DHY: For one, we see the former Chief of the Red Shadow Guards (Zi Ang’s uncle) alive and well in his fifties, clearly past his prime and in good health. That alone undermines this claim.
If every chief truly died young, wouldn’t that be common knowledge within the organization? Who would willingly accept a post that guarantees an early death? Such a pattern would be impossible to hide, and even harder to justify.
Furthermore, the position of Chief is said to be held exclusively by members of the royal family — typically younger sons of the emperor. It makes little sense to deliberately poison imperial blood, especially potential successors. While one might argue that eliminating rivals serves a political purpose, systematically killing royal sons would be far too dangerous and politically short-sighted.
For me, all of them, but I can’t get over their 2nd kiss in ep 6, when Shu He affirms: This is what he wants, too. And in ep 12 their wedding kiss!
Plus I really liked the kiss in ep 8, after they talk about fully getting to know each other. It's so intimate, warm, understated, familiar... you can tell they've been lovers for a while and they have kissed many times before.
As I understand it, the Duans were a military family (which would also fit with the historical counterparts on…
It’s Zi Ang we are talking about, heart over logic 😅 Besides, even if he was adopted, what counts is the emotional attachment, especially in early childhood. Family is family. So no surprise there for me . Just makes it more traumatic that he had all these things happen to him.
Why was the Duan family massacred btw ? I only know that they were wrongfully accused. What's the connection of…
As I understand it, the Duans were a military family (which would also fit with the historical counterparts on whom the characters are based on).
They voluntarily hid Zi Ang, the illegitimate son of the North Ji emperor. It sounded to me as if the mother had some connection (perhaps a friendship) with the Duans? But that's just speculation on my part. Zi Ang is the son of the emperor, therefore of North Ji nationality. As far as we know from Huai Yi, he is the legitimate son of the Duans, thus not blood-related to Zi Ang and originally from South Hui.
Zi Ang became a Red Shadow Guard because someone from the imperial family is always supposed to be the chief of the Red Shadow Guards (which is why Zi Ang doesn't have a tattoo). To protect Huai Yi and his identify, he joined the temple to become a monk, taking on a different last name.
Also, while I will defend Shu He any day that he was only partially incompetent as a ruler, and partially failed by a lack of support in the system (based on what we see in the drama), the same doesn’t hold true for LCJ. It seems he was truly an incapable ruler. He should have given the throne to his younger brother (8th prince)…
But I keep thinking that someone was so captivated by the historical figures that they wrote a story about them. Then, someone (a reader I assume) loved the novel (or certain elements of it) so much to base our beloved drama on it. That was my reason to start reading (trying to read) the novel and dig into the history. I wanted to know what was kept, what was removed, and what were the things that made this novel stand out among others, to be chosen as source material, even if it is very different to the end product we saw on screen. 😅
LCJ married Ehuang, but (wikipedia) "cheated on his wife while she was dying. During her last days he also engaged in a secret sexual relationship with Queen Zhou the Younger, the queen's younger sister, who was only around 14 at that time." ...
For ZKY:
ZKY married Lady He when she was 16, he 17. The two were deeply in love and their marriage was happy, but she died before his ascension. After her death he married again: Empress Wang, who was 16 at the time of their marriage and 15 years younger than him, but she died young too. He then married for a third time (until his death).
At times seems that it was even “en vogue” to have a male lover.
However, it came under the condition that the emperor had male sons, so the lineage was preserved.
So yes, it makes sense that Shu He and Zi Ang’s relationship wasn’t much of an issue – they were early in their reign, but I think at some point they would both have been expected to have children.
Li Cong Jia (who Shu He’s is based on) was already married at age 17. In the novel, he is also married to Ehuang before he meets Zhao Kuang Yin (DZA).
Ngl, I’m not sad that they removed her. It streamlines things so much. Sometimes I think that the arranged marriage to Wen Jing is a nod in her direction.
But for the novel I’m also no expert; I started reading a long time ago, however I’m still stuck in the beginning, and will likely stay that way. 😭🤣
So far in the novel, Ehuang and LCJ have a mostly “nice” relationship – they love each other. LCJ of course develops feelings for ZKY, but the reason that he hides this – I feel like it’s more because he’s cheating (with a Northerner, none the less) rather than the fact that ZKY is male.
I always assumed early spring (when snowfall is still quite likely), but what is with the red maple leaves? And in episode 3, Shu Qian's servant says while searching for the zither string that the water in the pond is cold in fall.
I know, maybe it’s irrelevant, but it keeps bugging me…
Although it must be said that warning signs were already there. Like drinking poisoned wine for someone he wasn't even sure reciprocated his feelings (I mean, they flirted heavily, but were still in that "unconfirmed phase").
Or getting drunk to the point of passing out for an arranged marriage, which was obviously for political reasons only.
Or gifting a dagger that has been with him for 7 years and he admits has killed 19 people with...
From Wikipedia:
In folklore, the story known as "shadows by the candle and sounds from an axe" is very popular and suggests that Emperor Taizu was murdered by his brother, who was after the throne.
I don’t think what we’re told is the truth, since Zi Ang’s uncle looked perfectly healthy to me. IMO at some point DZA was deliberately poisoned by someone. I think it was a targeted attack. By whom - idk. That’s pure speculation on my part, but it’s the way I interpret the situation, it just makes the most sense to me and I will die on that hill.
Here’s what I wrote in my discussion post on DHY:
For one, we see the former Chief of the Red Shadow Guards (Zi Ang’s uncle) alive and well in his fifties, clearly past his prime and in good health. That alone undermines this claim.
If every chief truly died young, wouldn’t that be common knowledge within the organization? Who would willingly accept a post that guarantees an early death? Such a pattern would be impossible to hide, and even harder to justify.
Furthermore, the position of Chief is said to be held exclusively by members of the royal family — typically younger sons of the emperor. It makes little sense to deliberately poison imperial blood, especially potential successors. While one might argue that eliminating rivals serves a political purpose, systematically killing royal sons would be far too dangerous and politically short-sighted.
And in ep 12 their wedding kiss!
Plus I really liked the kiss in ep 8, after they talk about fully getting to know each other. It's so intimate, warm, understated, familiar... you can tell they've been lovers for a while and they have kissed many times before.
Besides, even if he was adopted, what counts is the emotional attachment, especially in early childhood. Family is family. So no surprise there for me . Just makes it more traumatic that he had all these things happen to him.
They voluntarily hid Zi Ang, the illegitimate son of the North Ji emperor. It sounded to me as if the mother had some connection (perhaps a friendship) with the Duans? But that's just speculation on my part.
Zi Ang is the son of the emperor, therefore of North Ji nationality. As far as we know from Huai Yi, he is the legitimate son of the Duans, thus not blood-related to Zi Ang and originally from South Hui.
Zi Ang became a Red Shadow Guard because someone from the imperial family is always supposed to be the chief of the Red Shadow Guards (which is why Zi Ang doesn't have a tattoo).
To protect Huai Yi and his identify, he joined the temple to become a monk, taking on a different last name.