What's your interpretation: Why does Zi Ang care about the poem so much, knowing it was fake?
I think that even though it was fake, it still reflects Shu He's feelings about Zi Ang. I mean, he had to sit down and write it, thinking about him...
And it's about how the poem made Zi Ang feel. Warm and fuzzy probably? š¤£
Also, while their relationship started out with both of them deceiving each other, it still marks their beginning and is therefore an important part of their history.
I don't know if I'm thinking like a child but I think maybe constant efforts to melt his heart and make him feel…
Again, I think I have to defend poor Shu He at least somewhat. (I'm not saying he was competent... maybe we can discuss? š )
1) yes 3) While Zi Ang did try to be humane, it was war after all. 2) Yes and no. Shu He's feelings might have played a part in his decision to close trade routs. However it may not be the only reason.
So why did Shu He not attack? - To avoid bloodshed seems like a likely reason to me, Shu He just loves his people and would gladly save every life. - War also drains the treasure, and we know that South Hui was losing money. If it's unlikely to win, then an attack is unwise. - No contact to Zi Ang? Or to help / protect Zi Ang? (Shu He is the master of inner conflict after all and his personal feelings may have played a part. )
Either way, these decisions probably alienated the court (a court that did not support its ruler from the outset) even more. From their point of view, itās a sign of weakness. They may accuse Shu He of failing to honor the Crown Prince's death. Thereās a strong possibility that some ministers will privately or openly seek to undermine Shu Heās rule, calling for more aggressive action.
Therefore the decision to close the trade routes may NOT ONLY have been because Shu He wanted to cut all ties with Zi Ang. (Iām sorry, therefore I disagree with "stupid king thought this was another wooing attempt") South Hui elites were pissed off with North Ji. And while closing trade routes seems bad from the outside, it could also be a sign of the rising conflict between the countries.
Decision to stop trade with North Ji Shu He may want to show strength by refusing to depend on North Ji economically, especially after the assassination of Shu Qian. - Personal Reasons: Thereās also the emotional side ā Shu He may be acting out of anger or grief - Political Reasons: Shu He/ministers might want to show strength by refusing to depend on North Ji economically, especially after the assassination of Shu Qian. Cutting off trade would send a strong message, signaling that South Hui will not be pushed around by North Ji.
Rebellion? When Zi Ang asserts that the people of South Hui were ready to rebel against Shu He even before North Ji annexed the kingdom, itās a subtle (and perhaps manipulative) way of positioning himself as a savior rather than a conqueror. In his version of events, he paints the annexation as an inevitable solution to the unrest within South Hui, framing his takeover as benevolent rather than an act of conquest.
Zi Angās claim also reveals a lot about the dysfunctional state of South Hui before the annexation. Shu Heās reign was already fragile, with internal dissent and a loss of faith among key supporters. Zi Ang's annexation, while portrayed as a "restoration of order", was in reality, the result of a long process of political erosion within South Hui and also an ambition that North Ji had for a long time.
I wanted to show you what is not fan service. This clip is not fan service. Fans are not allowed in the site so…
I'm so torn. On the one hand, I'm happy to see that they're really that close. I mean, their body language always gave it away anyway, but still. I love that they are good friends in front and behind the camera. š„° On the other hand - what kind of next level espionageā¦ and here I am, liking this. š«£
Do you all not find it odd how Duan Huai Yi immediately accepted Duan ZiAng as his brother and how quickly he…
In my opinion it makes sense if DHY was not who he said he was. Rather someone deliberately placed by North Ji to stay by Zi Angās side, to guard and guide him. Someone who had knowledge about the kingdom and how to rule. Hence he also makes a good successor.
The recurring theme of playing and scheming runs throughout the series, with characters often finding themselves as players or chess pieces in a game of fate.
In ep 2, Shu He reflects, "Between the two of us, who is the pawn and who is the chess player? It seems yet to be decided."
In the drama, we see Shu He playing a board game, it is the ancient board game of Go. Allegedly the hardest game in the world. Despite Go's simple rules, it requires intuition, creativity, logical thinking and long-term planning. The number of potential positions and moves on a Go board is said to exceed the number of atoms in the universe. (!!)
In fact, Shu He's proficiency with Go makes perfect sense. Go was one of the "four essential arts" of cultured aristocratic Chinese scholars. These four artsāqin (the zither that Shu He plays), qi (the strategy game of Go), shu (Chinese calligraphy), and hua (Chinese painting)āare often collectively referred to as qĆnqĆshÅ«huĆ (ē“ę£ęøē«).
The complexity of Go perfectly mirrors Shu Heās character. He is a master strategist, able to think several steps ahead. He can read people and manipulate situations, but he isn't ruthless.
For instance, after considering his plan to use Zi Ang in ep 1, he hesitates, saying, "He saved my life after all. Yet, I mean to use him and hurt him. I want to be idle and carefreeāI don't want to become that kind of person."
It's not that Shu He never lies or manipulates, but rather that he does so only when he truly wants something (like pursuing freedom at the beginning and death at the end).
In ep 12 we encounter a flashback to the 1st ep, when Shu He played Go. ä½ č¼øäŗć" You lost. " To me, this symbolizes that he has (in the 2nd act) mostly been the pawn in others' (to the largest part Zi Ang's) game, subjected to circumstances beyond his control. Yet, in his final moments, he reclaims agency.
By taking control of how his story ends, he finally achieves the what he wanted.
It's his redemption, his salvation. He leaves the world to go into the next in the hands of his lover, finally no longer shackled to everything that weighed him - them - down.
He's being freed, restored, made whole after so much loss, harm, ... and transitions from a negative state to a better, freer, reconciled one.
Yes, Shu He looked depressed, but we weren't told why. A plethora of reasons come to my mind, from his breakup with Zi Ang, the betrayal, the death of his father and brother, the destruction of his lifelong dream of freedom, forced into a position he never wanted. Maybe he wanted to change things, but saw himself unable to. No supporters truly. Only surrounded by people who saw him in a position he wasn't cut out for. What a cut-throat environment.
The way I see it though is ā Shu He would have tried. In my opinion, with his kindness, the love for the South Hui people, the idealist he was at heart, and with the words of encouragement Zi Ang had given him, ... ("But the fate of most people in this world are not in their own hands. [...] The future of every household will change because of one person's decision. Instead of trusting it to others as if it's a gamble, it would be better if that person is Xiao Shu He. At least the world won't get worse.") ... he wanted peace and prosperity, but failed. Also, I think Shu He's pride wouldn't have allowed him to be half-hearted.
That's not to say that he didn't do things wrong as ruler, but we were not told why he made these decisions and how much he was influenced by ministers, his feelings, misreading the situation ...
Shu Heās found himself ā against his wishes ā in a brutal system that rewards ruthlessness and power, not morality. Zi Ang wasnāt called incompetent because, in the end, history is written by those who win.
In a way, yes he was, but I want to reiterate that he also never stood a chance. And here is why I think so:
Lack of political experience coupled with his idealism Shu He was intelligent and literate, which in theory at least, should be considered good traits for a ruler. However we know he had little experience - and like anyone learning a new skill, he would have needed someone to guide him. Someone he could trust. Another one of his traits, his kindness, while admirable, may have worked against him in a political environment. Because harsh choices, such as warfare, and punishment, are sometimes necessary. Politics is a world of power structures, competing interests, and tough decisions, something he never was cut out for.
Deep- rooted corruption in South Hui Prime Minister Gu - manipulated Shu Qian - pushed for Shu He to join the court to further his own ambitions - used Shu Qian for the massacre of the Duan family - was possibly even being involved in the death of Shu Heās mother In essence, a man who stops at nothing. And yet he was the one who Shu He had the "best" connection with among all ministers in the court.
Other Court Members While we don't know as much about the other ministers, itās safe to assume that they were no better than Gu. In Episode 4, Shu He comments to Zi Ang, "The ruling and opposing factions of South Hui are intertwined. They've been rotten for a long time. On the surface, it looks prosperous, but up close, itās all made up of white bones that canāt be shaken."
This reveals that corruption ran deep, and even if Shu He had wanted to take action, his ability to do so was severely limited by those around him.
South Hui was weakened before Shu He became emperor? - When Shu He enters the court, his father just accepts North Jiās higher taxes ā> less money - The engagement to Princess Wen Jing ā> a strategic move that would have benefited weaker South Hui, even if it came with its own drawbacks
During Shu Heās reign The drought likely impacted the kingdom's finances. Diplomatic Isolation was probably a bad move. However, was this due to his personal feelings toward Zi Ang, or was he manipulated by his ministers?
As revenge for the death of Shu Qian at the hands of Zi Ang, the ministers pushed for an attack on North Ji. Shu He rejected the proposal, potentially because of his lingering feelings for Zi Ang? Or because of a reluctance to engage in unnecessary bloodshed? Either way, the ministers were probably furious.
The impending rebellion Rebellions donāt topple rulers just because the people rise up; they usually succeed when the power structures that support the ruler (like the military, elite classes, and bureaucracy) have already abandoned them.
Signs of competence? A scene that stuck with me was when Shu He accompanied Zi Ang to court. He immediately knew how to navigate the situation, when he suggested to give them access to South Huiās salt mines.
Conclusion Shu Heās downfall was not simply due to incompetence. He lacked the political experience, the ruthlessness, and the trusted allies needed to navigate the complex power dynamics. Competence in politics isnāt just about what you know or what decisions you make; itās also about the ability to build and maintain the necessary networks of support. Because no man rules alone. In this respect, Shu He never had a chance.
Yes, ZiAng saved ShuHe from the imminent rebellion of his own people. He was not a good ruler, did not have the…
A ruler can only be overthrown by the people, if the ruler has already lost the support of his key followers, so only if the military will let the people do so.
Yes, ZiAng saved ShuHe from the imminent rebellion of his own people. He was not a good ruler, did not have the…
Oh, I have so many thoughts on this topic as well... haha, help! š Because while he was probably not a competent ruler, he never stood a chance either.
ShuQian was a psychopathic narcissist character. He rejoiced in making people suffer and fear him. In my books,…
To some extent I just feel bad for Shu Qian, because his environment contributed to who he became. Sure, he may have had narcissistic traits, but coupled with a father who favored his brother, and being a member of a royal dynasty, which rewards dominance and ruthlessness.... Let's not forget the low self esteem that narcissists have, so again he wants power to compensate for his feelings of being inadequate (and back to the father again...) . Plus Minister Gu manipulating him all the timeā¦ That makes me think of Shu He, asking whether their relationship would be different if they weren't princes, just normal commoners.
I think that even though it was fake, it still reflects Shu He's feelings about Zi Ang. I mean, he had to sit down and write it, thinking about him...
And it's about how the poem made Zi Ang feel. Warm and fuzzy probably? š¤£
Also, while their relationship started out with both of them deceiving each other, it still marks their beginning and is therefore an important part of their history.
1) yes
3) While Zi Ang did try to be humane, it was war after all.
2) Yes and no.
Shu He's feelings might have played a part in his decision to close trade routs.
However it may not be the only reason.
The first thing Shu He does when ascending the throne is to grant "general anmesty to all under heaven" (å¤§čµ¦å¤©äø da she tian xia) - which would include Zi Ang who just killed the Crown Prince of South Hui.
We learn that the ministers in Shu He's court wanted to avenge Shu Qian's death, which Shu He opposed. This I think would have happened quite early in his reign, so soon after Shu He took the throne, when Shu Qian's death was still "fresh" in the memories.
So why did Shu He not attack?
- To avoid bloodshed seems like a likely reason to me, Shu He just loves his people and would gladly save every life.
- War also drains the treasure, and we know that South Hui was losing money. If it's unlikely to win, then an attack is unwise.
- No contact to Zi Ang? Or to help / protect Zi Ang? (Shu He is the master of inner conflict after all and his personal feelings may have played a part. )
Either way, these decisions probably alienated the court (a court that did not support its ruler from the outset) even more. From their point of view, itās a sign of weakness. They may accuse Shu He of failing to honor the Crown Prince's death. Thereās a strong possibility that some ministers will privately or openly seek to undermine Shu Heās rule, calling for more aggressive action.
Therefore the decision to close the trade routes may NOT ONLY have been because Shu He wanted to cut all ties with Zi Ang. (Iām sorry, therefore I disagree with "stupid king thought this was another wooing attempt")
South Hui elites were pissed off with North Ji. And while closing trade routes seems bad from the outside, it could also be a sign of the rising conflict between the countries.
Decision to stop trade with North Ji
Shu He may want to show strength by refusing to depend on North Ji economically, especially after the assassination of Shu Qian.
- Personal Reasons: Thereās also the emotional side ā Shu He may be acting out of anger or grief
- Political Reasons: Shu He/ministers might want to show strength by refusing to depend on North Ji economically, especially after the assassination of Shu Qian. Cutting off trade would send a strong message, signaling that South Hui will not be pushed around by North Ji.
Rebellion?
When Zi Ang asserts that the people of South Hui were ready to rebel against Shu He even before North Ji annexed the kingdom, itās a subtle (and perhaps manipulative) way of positioning himself as a savior rather than a conqueror.
In his version of events, he paints the annexation as an inevitable solution to the unrest within South Hui, framing his takeover as benevolent rather than an act of conquest.
Zi Angās claim also reveals a lot about the dysfunctional state of South Hui before the annexation. Shu Heās reign was already fragile, with internal dissent and a loss of faith among key supporters. Zi Ang's annexation, while portrayed as a "restoration of order", was in reality, the result of a long process of political erosion within South Hui and also an ambition that North Ji had for a long time.
On the one hand, I'm happy to see that they're really that close. I mean, their body language always gave it away anyway, but still. I love that they are good friends in front and behind the camera. š„°
On the other hand - what kind of next level espionageā¦ and here I am, liking this. š«£
Whether it was revenge or not is up to interpretation. (And also how one interprets what revenge is and what it encompassesā¦ )
The recurring theme of playing and scheming runs throughout the series, with characters often finding themselves as players or chess pieces in a game of fate.
In ep 2, Shu He reflects, "Between the two of us, who is the pawn and who is the chess player? It seems yet to be decided."
In the drama, we see Shu He playing a board game, it is the ancient board game of Go. Allegedly the hardest game in the world. Despite Go's simple rules, it requires intuition, creativity, logical thinking and long-term planning. The number of potential positions and moves on a Go board is said to exceed the number of atoms in the universe. (!!)
In fact, Shu He's proficiency with Go makes perfect sense. Go was one of the "four essential arts" of cultured aristocratic Chinese scholars. These four artsāqin (the zither that Shu He plays), qi (the strategy game of Go), shu (Chinese calligraphy), and hua (Chinese painting)āare often collectively referred to as qĆnqĆshÅ«huĆ (ē“ę£ęøē«).
The complexity of Go perfectly mirrors Shu Heās character. He is a master strategist, able to think several steps ahead. He can read people and manipulate situations, but he isn't ruthless.
For instance, after considering his plan to use Zi Ang in ep 1, he hesitates, saying, "He saved my life after all. Yet, I mean to use him and hurt him. I want to be idle and carefreeāI don't want to become that kind of person."
It's not that Shu He never lies or manipulates, but rather that he does so only when he truly wants something (like pursuing freedom at the beginning and death at the end).
In ep 12 we encounter a flashback to the 1st ep, when Shu He played Go. ä½ č¼øäŗć" You lost. "
To me, this symbolizes that he has (in the 2nd act) mostly been the pawn in others' (to the largest part Zi Ang's) game, subjected to circumstances beyond his control. Yet, in his final moments, he reclaims agency.
By taking control of how his story ends, he finally achieves the what he wanted.
It's his redemption, his salvation. He leaves the world to go into the next in the hands of his lover, finally no longer shackled to everything that weighed him - them - down.
He's being freed, restored, made whole after so much loss, harm, ... and transitions from a negative state to a better, freer, reconciled one.
I hope you like my ramblings XD
If you want to read part I: https://kisskh.at/788946-shan-he-yong-ji#comment-23938254
Yes, Shu He looked depressed, but we weren't told why. A plethora of reasons come to my mind, from his breakup with Zi Ang, the betrayal, the death of his father and brother, the destruction of his lifelong dream of freedom, forced into a position he never wanted. Maybe he wanted to change things, but saw himself unable to. No supporters truly. Only surrounded by people who saw him in a position he wasn't cut out for. What a cut-throat environment.
The way I see it though is ā Shu He would have tried. In my opinion, with his kindness, the love for the South Hui people, the idealist he was at heart, and with the words of encouragement Zi Ang had given him, ... ("But the fate of most people in this world are not in their own hands. [...] The future of every household will change because of one person's decision. Instead of trusting it to others as if it's a gamble, it would be better if that person is Xiao Shu He. At least the world won't get worse.")
... he wanted peace and prosperity, but failed. Also, I think Shu He's pride wouldn't have allowed him to be half-hearted.
That's not to say that he didn't do things wrong as ruler, but we were not told why he made these decisions and how much he was influenced by ministers, his feelings, misreading the situation ...
Shu Heās found himself ā against his wishes ā in a brutal system that rewards ruthlessness and power, not morality. Zi Ang wasnāt called incompetent because, in the end, history is written by those who win.
In a way, yes he was, but I want to reiterate that he also never stood a chance. And here is why I think so:
Lack of political experience coupled with his idealism
Shu He was intelligent and literate, which in theory at least, should be considered good traits for a ruler.
However we know he had little experience - and like anyone learning a new skill, he would have needed someone to guide him. Someone he could trust.
Another one of his traits, his kindness, while admirable, may have worked against him in a political environment. Because harsh choices, such as warfare, and punishment, are sometimes necessary. Politics is a world of power structures, competing interests, and tough decisions, something he never was cut out for.
Deep- rooted corruption in South Hui
Prime Minister Gu
- manipulated Shu Qian
- pushed for Shu He to join the court to further his own ambitions
- used Shu Qian for the massacre of the Duan family
- was possibly even being involved in the death of Shu Heās mother
In essence, a man who stops at nothing. And yet he was the one who Shu He had the "best" connection with among all ministers in the court.
Other Court Members
While we don't know as much about the other ministers, itās safe to assume that they were no better than Gu.
In Episode 4, Shu He comments to Zi Ang, "The ruling and opposing factions of South Hui are intertwined. They've been rotten for a long time. On the surface, it looks prosperous, but up close, itās all made up of white bones that canāt be shaken."
This reveals that corruption ran deep, and even if Shu He had wanted to take action, his ability to do so was severely limited by those around him.
South Hui was weakened before Shu He became emperor?
- When Shu He enters the court, his father just accepts North Jiās higher taxes ā> less money
- The engagement to Princess Wen Jing ā> a strategic move that would have benefited weaker South Hui, even if it came with its own drawbacks
During Shu Heās reign
The drought likely impacted the kingdom's finances.
Diplomatic Isolation was probably a bad move. However, was this due to his personal feelings toward Zi Ang, or was he manipulated by his ministers?
As revenge for the death of Shu Qian at the hands of Zi Ang, the ministers pushed for an attack on North Ji. Shu He rejected the proposal, potentially because of his lingering feelings for Zi Ang? Or because of a reluctance to engage in unnecessary bloodshed? Either way, the ministers were probably furious.
The impending rebellion
Rebellions donāt topple rulers just because the people rise up; they usually succeed when the power structures that support the ruler (like the military, elite classes, and bureaucracy) have already abandoned them.
Signs of competence?
A scene that stuck with me was when Shu He accompanied Zi Ang to court. He immediately knew how to navigate the situation, when he suggested to give them access to South Huiās salt mines.
Conclusion
Shu Heās downfall was not simply due to incompetence. He lacked the political experience, the ruthlessness, and the trusted allies needed to navigate the complex power dynamics. Competence in politics isnāt just about what you know or what decisions you make; itās also about the ability to build and maintain the necessary networks of support. Because no man rules alone. In this respect, Shu He never had a chance.
I highly recommend this video, if you havenāt seen it yet: Rules for Rulers
https://youtu.be/rStL7niR7gs
Because while he was probably not a competent ruler, he never stood a chance either.
Sure, he may have had narcissistic traits, but coupled with a father who favored his brother, and being a member of a royal dynasty, which rewards dominance and ruthlessness....
Let's not forget the low self esteem that narcissists have, so again he wants power to compensate for his feelings of being inadequate (and back to the father again...) .
Plus Minister Gu manipulating him all the timeā¦
That makes me think of Shu He, asking whether their relationship would be different if they weren't princes, just normal commoners.