In a way, yes he was, but I want to reiterate that he also never stood a chance. And here is why I think so:
Lack of political experience coupled with his idealism Shu He was intelligent and literate, which in theory at least, should be considered good traits for a ruler. However we know he had little experience - and like anyone learning a new skill, he would have needed someone to guide him. Someone he could trust. Another one of his traits, his kindness, while admirable, may have worked against him in a political environment. Because harsh choices, such as warfare, and punishment, are sometimes necessary. Politics is a world of power structures, competing interests, and tough decisions, something he never was cut out for.
Deep- rooted corruption in South Hui Prime Minister Gu - manipulated Shu Qian - pushed for Shu He to join the court to further his own ambitions - used Shu Qian for the massacre of the Duan family - was possibly even being involved in the death of Shu He’s mother In essence, a man who stops at nothing. And yet he was the one who Shu He had the "best" connection with among all ministers in the court.
Other Court Members While we don't know as much about the other ministers, it’s safe to assume that they were no better than Gu. In Episode 4, Shu He comments to Zi Ang, "The ruling and opposing factions of South Hui are intertwined. They've been rotten for a long time. On the surface, it looks prosperous, but up close, it’s all made up of white bones that can’t be shaken."
This reveals that corruption ran deep, and even if Shu He had wanted to take action, his ability to do so was severely limited by those around him.
South Hui was weakened before Shu He became emperor? - When Shu He enters the court, his father just accepts North Ji‘s higher taxes —> less money - The engagement to Princess Wen Jing —> a strategic move that would have benefited weaker South Hui, even if it came with its own drawbacks
During Shu He‘s reign The drought likely impacted the kingdom's finances. Diplomatic Isolation was probably a bad move. However, was this due to his personal feelings toward Zi Ang, or was he manipulated by his ministers?
As revenge for the death of Shu Qian at the hands of Zi Ang, the ministers pushed for an attack on North Ji. Shu He rejected the proposal, potentially because of his lingering feelings for Zi Ang? Or because of a reluctance to engage in unnecessary bloodshed? Either way, the ministers were probably furious.
The impending rebellion Rebellions don’t topple rulers just because the people rise up; they usually succeed when the power structures that support the ruler (like the military, elite classes, and bureaucracy) have already abandoned them.
Signs of competence? A scene that stuck with me was when Shu He accompanied Zi Ang to court. He immediately knew how to navigate the situation, when he suggested to give them access to South Hui‘s salt mines.
Conclusion Shu He’s downfall was not simply due to incompetence. He lacked the political experience, the ruthlessness, and the trusted allies needed to navigate the complex power dynamics. Competence in politics isn’t just about what you know or what decisions you make; it’s also about the ability to build and maintain the necessary networks of support. Because no man rules alone. In this respect, Shu He never had a chance.
Yes, ZiAng saved ShuHe from the imminent rebellion of his own people. He was not a good ruler, did not have the…
A ruler can only be overthrown by the people, if the ruler has already lost the support of his key followers, so only if the military will let the people do so.
Yes, ZiAng saved ShuHe from the imminent rebellion of his own people. He was not a good ruler, did not have the…
Oh, I have so many thoughts on this topic as well... haha, help! 😂 Because while he was probably not a competent ruler, he never stood a chance either.
ShuQian was a psychopathic narcissist character. He rejoiced in making people suffer and fear him. In my books,…
To some extent I just feel bad for Shu Qian, because his environment contributed to who he became. Sure, he may have had narcissistic traits, but coupled with a father who favored his brother, and being a member of a royal dynasty, which rewards dominance and ruthlessness.... Let's not forget the low self esteem that narcissists have, so again he wants power to compensate for his feelings of being inadequate (and back to the father again...) . Plus Minister Gu manipulating him all the time… That makes me think of Shu He, asking whether their relationship would be different if they weren't princes, just normal commoners.
An interesting take on the brothers. Zi Ang and Shu He have so many parallels and symmetry in their lives. Having…
What a great reflection on the characters. I have to say, your take on Shu Qian changed my view of his and Shu He's relationship quite a lot! I always thought that during the flashback to Shu He's and Shu Qian's younger days, that he was still genuinely nice and cared about his brother, hence why he wanted to gift him a new zither. Now, I'm thinking what if even back then this was already (to some extent) conditioning him? Because narcissists crave attention and control? River, what are you doing to me, lol!
Also -- please go on with your imagination about Huai Yi!
In the end, idk, but both Huai Yi and Shu Qian did their respective brothers dirty.
ShuQian was a psychopathic narcissist character. He rejoiced in making people suffer and fear him. In my books,…
Omg, I love that phrase! So powerful and so true.
I agree that Shu Qian seems like a narcissist, and it's highly likely that this was influenced by his father. While we were not shown how their father treated them in childhood, I can certainly imagine how the emperor would create a competitive environment, reward achievements and not care for the emotional needs of his sons (esp. his eldest, since a lot of expectations were placed on his shoulders from the day he was born). A father who favors the younger brother, since he's smarter and better at calligraphy, music, whatnot.
I'm not sure Shu Qian is fully devoid of all empathy though, since he did go and look for the zither string... and he did write down the recipe for the antidote. But there seems to be a steady decline in his mental health over the course of the series. I mean how he wanted the maids to hold the apples without flinching -- that's some crazy display of cruelty.
But when I think about what you wrote "when a narcissist looses a toy he may want it back" -- ouch! Poor Huo Ying. But for some reason, especially because the series is set in ancient China, I can somehow understand Huo Ying's absolute devotion to Shu Qian...
The Brothers - unsettling emotions:An earlier @Yerisina post prompt me to write this post that I have been thinking…
What a great analysis of the brotherly relationships in K2L! I will add this to the discussions on Deep Dives! <3 Both brothers are an integral part of the story, and ultimately, both Shu Qian and Huai Yi betrayed their brothers in their own way.
While the show was airing, I was instantly reminded of the Asian belief of a red string of fate that connects people destined to be soulmates (many have surely heard of this belief before). While I never saw it to be incestuous, it certainly is an interesting "layer".
Yes, Zi Ang filled the void that Shu Qian left in Shu He's life. "My own brother treats me so cruelly, but Zi Ang, a childhood friend, understands me so well." But imo Shu He would have preferred to have both Zi Ang and Shu Qian in his life. ("I wanted too much...")
It also shows once again that someone who knows the other person intimately can be particularly cruel. Shu Qian knows Shu He so well that he knows exactly how to hurt him the most (crippling his hand and what he said on the bridge about Zi Ang).
Oh, Huai Yi... I think that Zi Ang was genuinely looking for Huai Yi, because General Wang mentioned Huai Yi in episode one - no relation to Shu He at all. Just to keep Zi Ang loyal to the mission and Ji North, by extent. It is quite possible that the Huai Yi we meet is not the real adoptive brother Zi Ang was looking for. The series gives us no confirmation either for or against this. It leaves the interpretation open to the viewer, but there are a few “breadcrumbs” scattered throughout the story that portray Huai Yi as shady. That's why I compiled my "court case" against him.
Pure perfection condensed into one beautiful scene… 🥰I lost count how many times I watched this 🤭😅
Simply put, Shu Qian is an a**hole. To me, he was always like a mini Joffrey (GoT).
But I think it has to do with Shu He interfering in politics. Because until now, that was the only thing Shu Qian was better at (or got his father's undivided attention for).
Shu Qian is not good at calligraphy, zither, Go, or painting (the four arts of the Chinese scholar). At the engagement banquet, Shu Qian embarrassed himself even more with his behavior. All of this is the last straw.
So he wants to take away what Shu He is good at — because Shu He took away something he was good at. So it's kind of an eye for an eye... or a hand for a position in court.
Nice to meet you, Boho! We love discussing episodes here, so we're glad to have you onboarding this ship hahahaha…
As always, great analysis, Jasprin. <3 Shu Qian would be an awful husband.
I would like to add that Shu He's father said Princess Wen Jing had admired Shu He for a long time. Who knows whether that's true or not, but it seems North Ji specifically wanted Shu He. Some reasons might be mentioned in later episodes. 😉
Shu He's father agreed to this, and did not suggest Shu Qian, probably on the one hand for the reasons Jasprin mentioned and on the other to enable the alliance by going along with North Ji's proposal.
Lmaooo .. Ep. 5 is peak comedy. Shu He's sudden marriage announcement, Duan ZiAng breaking down, Shen Song and…
The way Zi Ang appeared to the banquet - I just thought "Yes, claim your man!!" With the music and everything, just epic. 🤣
Yes, Shen Song is a brainiac, and his and Shu He's friendship is so precious. Plus Shen Song ships Zi Ang and Shu He hard (he just knows his best friend in and out).
Thank you for this great review. Seems like it took some time to write— or at least it took me some time to read 😅 Thanks for listing the good and the bad alike. Even though I’m completely enamored with the drama, I agree with every critique you voiced.
Jinjin said the other day, that he thinks Shu He was deceiving himself with the revenge argument... (as I thought…
The more I think about it, redemption and somewhat synonymous words —salvation, atonement, and deliverance — are the right words for me.
They all share the core idea of being freed, restored, or made whole after some form of loss, harm, or wrongdoing and a transition from a negative state to a better, freer, reconciled one.
That confused me too because it's right after ziang getting shot 😂 but it was Huo suffering from the poison…
Like you and Prism, I was confused too, and many other viewers (if you read the comments while first two ep were airing). It's not the best editing, and you mix the 2 characters because of timing, black clothes and bc you cant't see DZA's face. If you look closely: The assassin is DZA (ponytail and mask). Huo Ying collapsing - hair up and no mask (he never wears a mask).
In a way, yes he was, but I want to reiterate that he also never stood a chance. And here is why I think so:
Lack of political experience coupled with his idealism
Shu He was intelligent and literate, which in theory at least, should be considered good traits for a ruler.
However we know he had little experience - and like anyone learning a new skill, he would have needed someone to guide him. Someone he could trust.
Another one of his traits, his kindness, while admirable, may have worked against him in a political environment. Because harsh choices, such as warfare, and punishment, are sometimes necessary. Politics is a world of power structures, competing interests, and tough decisions, something he never was cut out for.
Deep- rooted corruption in South Hui
Prime Minister Gu
- manipulated Shu Qian
- pushed for Shu He to join the court to further his own ambitions
- used Shu Qian for the massacre of the Duan family
- was possibly even being involved in the death of Shu He’s mother
In essence, a man who stops at nothing. And yet he was the one who Shu He had the "best" connection with among all ministers in the court.
Other Court Members
While we don't know as much about the other ministers, it’s safe to assume that they were no better than Gu.
In Episode 4, Shu He comments to Zi Ang, "The ruling and opposing factions of South Hui are intertwined. They've been rotten for a long time. On the surface, it looks prosperous, but up close, it’s all made up of white bones that can’t be shaken."
This reveals that corruption ran deep, and even if Shu He had wanted to take action, his ability to do so was severely limited by those around him.
South Hui was weakened before Shu He became emperor?
- When Shu He enters the court, his father just accepts North Ji‘s higher taxes —> less money
- The engagement to Princess Wen Jing —> a strategic move that would have benefited weaker South Hui, even if it came with its own drawbacks
During Shu He‘s reign
The drought likely impacted the kingdom's finances.
Diplomatic Isolation was probably a bad move. However, was this due to his personal feelings toward Zi Ang, or was he manipulated by his ministers?
As revenge for the death of Shu Qian at the hands of Zi Ang, the ministers pushed for an attack on North Ji. Shu He rejected the proposal, potentially because of his lingering feelings for Zi Ang? Or because of a reluctance to engage in unnecessary bloodshed? Either way, the ministers were probably furious.
The impending rebellion
Rebellions don’t topple rulers just because the people rise up; they usually succeed when the power structures that support the ruler (like the military, elite classes, and bureaucracy) have already abandoned them.
Signs of competence?
A scene that stuck with me was when Shu He accompanied Zi Ang to court. He immediately knew how to navigate the situation, when he suggested to give them access to South Hui‘s salt mines.
Conclusion
Shu He’s downfall was not simply due to incompetence. He lacked the political experience, the ruthlessness, and the trusted allies needed to navigate the complex power dynamics. Competence in politics isn’t just about what you know or what decisions you make; it’s also about the ability to build and maintain the necessary networks of support. Because no man rules alone. In this respect, Shu He never had a chance.
I highly recommend this video, if you haven’t seen it yet: Rules for Rulers
https://youtu.be/rStL7niR7gs
Because while he was probably not a competent ruler, he never stood a chance either.
Sure, he may have had narcissistic traits, but coupled with a father who favored his brother, and being a member of a royal dynasty, which rewards dominance and ruthlessness....
Let's not forget the low self esteem that narcissists have, so again he wants power to compensate for his feelings of being inadequate (and back to the father again...) .
Plus Minister Gu manipulating him all the time…
That makes me think of Shu He, asking whether their relationship would be different if they weren't princes, just normal commoners.
I always thought that during the flashback to Shu He's and Shu Qian's younger days, that he was still genuinely nice and cared about his brother, hence why he wanted to gift him a new zither. Now, I'm thinking what if even back then this was already (to some extent) conditioning him? Because narcissists crave attention and control? River, what are you doing to me, lol!
Also -- please go on with your imagination about Huai Yi!
In the end, idk, but both Huai Yi and Shu Qian did their respective brothers dirty.
We're here in the comments, looking forward to anything you want to say.
I agree that Shu Qian seems like a narcissist, and it's highly likely that this was influenced by his father. While we were not shown how their father treated them in childhood, I can certainly imagine how the emperor would create a competitive environment, reward achievements and not care for the emotional needs of his sons (esp. his eldest, since a lot of expectations were placed on his shoulders from the day he was born). A father who favors the younger brother, since he's smarter and better at calligraphy, music, whatnot.
I'm not sure Shu Qian is fully devoid of all empathy though, since he did go and look for the zither string... and he did write down the recipe for the antidote. But there seems to be a steady decline in his mental health over the course of the series. I mean how he wanted the maids to hold the apples without flinching -- that's some crazy display of cruelty.
But when I think about what you wrote "when a narcissist looses a toy he may want it back" -- ouch!
Poor Huo Ying. But for some reason, especially because the series is set in ancient China, I can somehow understand Huo Ying's absolute devotion to Shu Qian...
Both brothers are an integral part of the story, and ultimately, both Shu Qian and Huai Yi betrayed their brothers in their own way.
While the show was airing, I was instantly reminded of the Asian belief of a red string of fate that connects people destined to be soulmates (many have surely heard of this belief before). While I never saw it to be incestuous, it certainly is an interesting "layer".
Yes, Zi Ang filled the void that Shu Qian left in Shu He's life.
"My own brother treats me so cruelly, but Zi Ang, a childhood friend, understands me so well."
But imo Shu He would have preferred to have both Zi Ang and Shu Qian in his life. ("I wanted too much...")
It also shows once again that someone who knows the other person intimately can be particularly cruel. Shu Qian knows Shu He so well that he knows exactly how to hurt him the most (crippling his hand and what he said on the bridge about Zi Ang).
Oh, Huai Yi...
I think that Zi Ang was genuinely looking for Huai Yi, because General Wang mentioned Huai Yi in episode one - no relation to Shu He at all. Just to keep Zi Ang loyal to the mission and Ji North, by extent.
It is quite possible that the Huai Yi we meet is not the real adoptive brother Zi Ang was looking for. The series gives us no confirmation either for or against this. It leaves the interpretation open to the viewer, but there are a few “breadcrumbs” scattered throughout the story that portray Huai Yi as shady. That's why I compiled my "court case" against him.
In conclusion, both deserved better brothers.
I always wondered why he decided to write down the formula for the antidote? Why not earlier?
Did he want to finally set Huo Ying free once he was emperor? Or did he anticipate that he might die?
To me, he was always like a mini Joffrey (GoT).
But I think it has to do with Shu He interfering in politics. Because until now, that was the only thing Shu Qian was better at (or got his father's undivided attention for).
Shu Qian is not good at calligraphy, zither, Go, or painting (the four arts of the Chinese scholar). At the engagement banquet, Shu Qian embarrassed himself even more with his behavior. All of this is the last straw.
So he wants to take away what Shu He is good at — because Shu He took away something he was good at.
So it's kind of an eye for an eye... or a hand for a position in court.
I lost count how many times I watched this 🤭😅
Shu Qian would be an awful husband.
I would like to add that Shu He's father said Princess Wen Jing had admired Shu He for a long time. Who knows whether that's true or not, but it seems North Ji specifically wanted Shu He. Some reasons might be mentioned in later episodes. 😉
Shu He's father agreed to this, and did not suggest Shu Qian, probably on the one hand for the reasons Jasprin mentioned and on the other to enable the alliance by going along with North Ji's proposal.
Yes, Shen Song is a brainiac, and his and Shu He's friendship is so precious. Plus Shen Song ships Zi Ang and Shu He hard (he just knows his best friend in and out).
Thanks for listing the good and the bad alike.
Even though I’m completely enamored with the drama, I agree with every critique you voiced.
Too bad I can only give you one like…
They all share the core idea of being freed, restored, or made whole after some form of loss, harm, or wrongdoing and a transition from a negative state to a better, freer, reconciled one.
It's not the best editing, and you mix the 2 characters because of timing, black clothes and bc you cant't see DZA's face.
If you look closely: The assassin is DZA (ponytail and mask). Huo Ying collapsing - hair up and no mask (he never wears a mask).