kathleentheturtle

OMG two of my favorite girls discussing this moment. I was like you trying to figure out what the options were for LBY too at the moment where he jumped off the cliff. I couldn't think of anything else, but maybe if he didn't say that their fate ended there, it would have been better too. Like if he told her he couldn't see a way out and didn't want her to die with him...I need to come back and think on this too. (LMAO ...I have responses I still have to write to you and to @WindBlows). I loveeee, lovee our discussions so far at picking apart the drama in the latter episodes and all the reasons why. That general that was hunting them would not have easily let them off for sure, hence LBY/HWS took what felt like the final drastic measure to ensure at least that CSS would live. It wasn't like him saying that was going to stop her from grieving and mourning either. I will be back again but didn't want to lose track of this discussion.

CSS never ever blamed LBY/HWS for exacting revenge. She blamed him and was hurt by him because he abandoned her and left her in the dark. She would have walked the bloody path with him till the end if you recall in episode 49.

RIGHT? I had asked this similar question to @WindBlows since she has read the novel so it was so helpful for me to have this tidbit of knowledge. But then it also frustrates me that if there is this confusion for those not privy to the source material, the drama failed in conveying this moment and piece of the story, which is vital to understanding why HBY was punished to the borders despite being the emperor's beloved god-son.

What a delight to see you here, friend! I think it was episode 5 for me too where it hooked! Initially I struggled with the opening episodes as well, because as you mentioned we were just dropped in the middle of the world and conversations and then had to figure out who was who and what the heck they're doing. I also like that we're both still here on this drama page 7 years later. HAHAHAHA

@SoulfulAlchemist, happy watching if you continue to venture into the NIF world.

hey friend, @WindBlows actually organized it so well, so I am going to paste what she shared with me to you.

"The tiger seal and deploying troops are related to the massacre, but let me arrange things chronologically. You know that the CP's tiger seal was stolen by Marquis Yue. HBY made a big show about handing his own seal as a replacement to cover for CP's mistake and SS forging the seal, but actually he stole the tiger seal from Marquis Yue for later use.

The massacre had a dual purpose, according to HBY's plan. Complete his revenge, but also show that CP is incompetent and should be replaced by 3rd Prince. That is why he deploys the army without authorization from the Emperor. I think the scene was cut in the drama. In the novel, those troops were used to keep everyone away from the Ling mansion so that HBY could fulfill his revenge. I told you before he planned to kill everyone in the Ling clan - men, women and children, but SS managed to stop him.

In the drama, SS also bitterly realizes how much HBY lied and used her - the tower incident, tiger seal and HBY's duplicitous attitude towards CP and Empress, all while working hard to help 3rd Prince rise to power."

You'd think they would to try to up and keep up with the competition against each other 🤣

I think it's a problem for me too, to not have the healing and acknowledgement of CSS being obstinate. Definitely a major issue that editing or whatever happened slept on... And you being an "older viewer" = all the more wiser with how I see you analyze the stories, along with why I absolutely think you're a queen with how you dissect the drama.

*sending virtual tissues and a comforter/blanket like the one CSS wore in ep. 38* Hope to see you back soon for discussion too!

Hi friend. I would be curious to know if you happen to know what the most watched drama was outside of this one for Tencent this year. Thank you :)

welcome back, friend. It's good to see your name again in the comment section. Happy watching this week!

yea, I do see all your points, but I felt there was so many things that could have been fleshed out for them too. I wish that the five years did allow them to grow and mature in the ways that they could see things for themselves without always needing the elders to point or kick some sense into them.

THIS! ^ Yes!!! I actually struggled with HBY's change because while I understand his guilt, he also endured trauma too and I would have loved for the two of them to heal through their grief and trauma too. I think he could have actively done things that directly helped her too, but that's something I can be okay with letting go of, in terms of him helping the loved ones around her. But I think it was critical that he apologized to her and actually have a heart-to-heart with her to untie the knot between the two of them. Here are two people so deeply in love and so deeply hurt. And if they would be willing to take one step forward because it's clear even as they talked about living well and taking care of themselves, there's utter heartbreak. They missed so many chances to talk and show the reconciliation. And like you, I struggled with how they made CSS too. She let three villains get to her! She could have used the knife that she supposedly always carries around, but here we are. :( On the same page as you, friend, being so furious that they dumbed down CSS' intelligence.

I share the same concerns about wondering how it'll be better, but I still hope it will at least help a bit. I think showing CSS going through grief and heartbreak is logical. Having a job makes sense, because if you lose even some sense of purpose, you'll wither and have nothing left in grief. But I do have issues with how they didn't take the time to show her and Zisheng healing through the process of what they went through, and instead, opted from cliché tropes without real heart-to-heart conversations when there were so many chances to. I hope they'll have more episodes that could have fleshed this out and so many other things too.

going through the grief and healing was so important, and I wish they took time to show us that reconciliation. I too was upset that they were hollowed out shells of who they were by the end instead of going through the healing to grow together from the experience too.

I used the exact words too, 😂 that they did our characters dirty towards the end.

friend, this is a writer-wanna-be, okay? LMAO there is no merit to my words.

If you have not watched NIRVANA IN FIRE, I highly recommend that one down the line when you're able to move forward. Otherwise, any drama would be hard to tackle the way it is for me after LLTG. Another historical one I recommend is a K-drama called THE RED SLEEVE. These two are more bittersweet in nature, so it can take an emotional toll going through them. And lastly, many people recommended THE STORY OF MING LAN, because it's by the same author, but I don't know if you've seen any of the dramas. If you haven't, please save them for in the future if and when you have time, and are in the right headspace for them.

I understand our love for characters which allows us to forgive aspects of the drama/story. And that's perfectly cool. Sometimes I think coming from a writing perspective, that critical lens is naturally on, so I love reading other's thoughts to see if I am being too harsh in general. The document for me is just also to not forget the things I want to discuss hahahaha. I never want it to take the joy out of viewing a show. I hope you'll venture into other good historical dramas too, but the good ones are truly hard to come by, so when there's a gem like this, I understand the attachment.

Awww, I truly do love what you have to say, but I understand the attachments too. I have a running document that I've been jotting down notes for, especially for part 2 because of the issues I have with the later episodes, and then taking the time to process and expand on it. If you ever feel you'll be back, I still will love to read them! :)

Some of the comedy at the end DID NOT work for me, because it was all based off the others. I missed Shaosheng's spark and her genuine smiles like in the scene where she was so happy she had embroidered that bunny into the armour for LBY. Where were these little moments: https://gyazo.com/574f3b90423340b25d4db2affe8ccbb6

This sentence right here: "I understand maturing but what I don't get is how the writers found ok to "mature" them stripping them of what made us fall in love with them." Their use of the trauma that the two experienced was not deal with in a manner that made for good character growth without essentially losing who they are at the core. CSS lost her spark, and HBY/LBY lost his passion.