Ahhh so it could become a cautionary tale if they do end up like the Yu couple ... in fact that would be some…
You figure? Ok. Fair point. But I was having so much fun hating them and I can't do that so much if they might have been better when they were younger. :-(
Ahhh so it could become a cautionary tale if they do end up like the Yu couple ... in fact that would be some…
It just occurred to me that TY might be like Mdm Yu someday in terms of talent for scheming but their motivations will never be the same. One has no real regard for good and right. She only cares for gain and family power ... and TY will always be more than that.
He still thinks he's not quite good enough for her so he doesn't understand why she would be angry just because…
ooooh. I like this. There was a brilliant exchange yesterday about our leads being on different pages with different hopes having developed and it really caught my attention. Now I'm thinking you were a part of it.
They really are on different pages. She lost the desire for revenge and restitution while he was learning that you need great power to protect the ones you love.
And that's interesting because most dramas go the way of pursuing and getting both revenge and power and then maybe the main characters survive at the end with there never being any question about whether they should have gone that way in the first place (which should be a lingering question since since there are always hard losses and a body count along the way).
There's one thing that we're kind of missing though (although you have touched on it) and that's the point that Wang pushed ZL with (and to a lesser extent the Emperor has pushed him with). And that is the need to make the world a better place that is more fair to everyone and not just a few elites. And maybe he's the right guy to do it because of his origins. Our unusual ML who is a commoner instead of nobility.
Both things; protecting your loved ones and doing right for the world were the prongs that pushed ZL into battle and into what he's doing now. Although there was an element of just needing to survive as well (especially in war and high politics when your bosses are the ones dictating your course ... even if they are being entirely righteous about it).
So, TY has kind of lost this part. She fell in love with ZL because he did the right thing when it was difficult (saving her, giving the salt away to the commoners who were dying). But she really felt the cost in their separation. And nobody has been reminding her that there is 'right' in what he's doing as well as ambition and danger ... so maybe she's forgotten this a little.
It's a question where you have to weigh what's best and what will cost most for you personally vs what's best and more costly for the wider world. It's right to ask yourself about the cost. It's wise to learn about power and consider how much you really need in order to be safe and happy. TY has learned that you don't need as much as ZL thinks ... in order to stay safe and live well ... (even if you have enemies you can stay out of their way) ... but you need much more if you are to make the world a better place. The stakes are so much higher in that wider context ... and we tend to think of personal/home/woman concerns vs world/public/man concerns when our leads didn't start out that way.
So, let's hope they end up on the same page again for all kinds of reasons. But all of these issues are complex and not usually handled with great subtlety in most dramas.
Anyway, if they handle this kind of complexity and make it more obvious what all the competing concerns really are ... then we might really have a unique masterpiece in front of us. Not just a revenge story. Not just a save the world by doing right story. Not just a get power to save yourself story. Something that's all that and more maybe?
I guess we'll see :-) They seem to be going a different way so far and the arc isn't finished yet.
Ep. 21: First of all, kudos to all commenters who were saying wu woman concubine stuff & I was the one in…
Ahhh so it could become a cautionary tale if they do end up like the Yu couple ... in fact that would be some heavy irony and dark humor ... quite the twist ... but I doubt they would go there in this drama.
It's more likely that they'll stop themselves, learn this ultimate lesson and straighten themselves out in the end ... so the rest of the story will be about the learning and the surviving until they can get away to live their own lives without the Emperor using them for every tricky project he needs a blade for.
In fact, it's the Emperor who has been messing them up really. Yes ZL does have some ambition but not nearly as much as the power players think he does. Essentially, he's just surviving whatever is being thrown at him because the Emperor has really not given him any choice but to do what he wants done. Could our ML really have said no?
Anyway, every crisis blows over pretty quickly in this drama so I don't think we should lose energy and hope. Tomorrow is another day ... with two whole episodes and the prep for a wedding. I predict your heart will be full again by the end of tomorrows episodes. :-)
You're not really going to take this seriously are you? How can you be disappointed by something that hasn't proved to be true yet. Spoilers are great when you really need them to prepare yourself for a sad ending or a death but, otherwise, they're mostly playing with us and it's not very smart of them to do that. The writing and the whole show has been great so far and it will probably continue to be til the end.
Oh lord saw some spoilers again and I am speechless. I think I’ll temporarily drop it after ep 25 (wanna see…
I really love and need spoilers sometimes especially if some character I love is going to die ... but they really do play with us in the way that they present them. So, I don't believe it. Maybe he gets to the end of his rope in this horrible job and they put on a 5 minute show of splitting ... but she's never going to leave him or not help him.
Someone pls give me a push to continue this. I have an amazing time every time I watch but it takes everything…
Wow. I'm definitely not in this group but ... why not wait until you're in the right mood to really enjoy something? Some of my favorite dramas took me a few tries before I could really get and stick into them. Before that, I just wasn't in the right headspace so it was a waste of time and a waste of a good drama to keep pushing. You can only see something for the first time ... once. So, I figure, if it ends up being a favorite by the end, I will have really wasted some enjoyment that I won't be able to get back again if I just slog my way through most of it even though I wasn't in the right mood. Anyway, give yourself a break. You deserve to really enjoy what you're watching.
The FU family are a bunch of cowardly men hiding behind women's skirts cus what was THAT.
Ikr. Demented dude who lost his position because he got caught doing bad stuff, now wants to use his new son in law to get another job and restore himself and his reputation at court.
He is shameless opportunism at its finest and, like you say, he's one of a cowardly bunch who hide behind and use the women in the family to make up for their own shortcomings. A pathetic but obvious example of that thing where the real strength lies with the women behind the men ...
He still thinks he's not quite good enough for her so he doesn't understand why she would be angry just because she misses him. He really doesn't think enough of himself yet to see that she just wants his attention and presence. His idea of her, and himself, doesn't allow him to see that she is just jealous.
He's been trying so hard to improve his position in the world that he hasn't caught up to the idea that he doesn't need to do anything for her except to be there. In truth, he's already overshot the mark and it's backfiring. Her hopes and expectations changed while he was at war. Now, she really just wants a peaceful life together. Revenge. Status. Power. Stopped meaning much to her when she carved her own success and when he went off to war, maybe never to return. Just living and being together became her new ideal but their lives are going to be anything but peaceful because of his "success". His new power, status and responsibilities are the thing that threatens them now. These things aren't the antidote that will make them safer in the world....
So, I could be really wrong in the end, but I think the story is showing that success and a good life are not guaranteed by position and power. In fact, living simply and staying out of the way of power may be the safest course of action and the real path to happiness. It's not the usual historical story. They're subverting the usual story.
It's been so hard for me to pick this up after ep 16 idk I just feel like nothing is changing with tingyuns character…
KK. I will push you then! I get those drama funks too and have trouble pressing play. But I think the structure here is FL emphasis, ML emphasis, legendary couple victory emphasis ... and the last episodes (17 - 21) have all been good ... so ... grab a cup of whatever you like to drink ... put feet up ... lean back, hit start and thank us all for encouraging you when you've caught up to us. KK? :-)
Sadly this drama did not invest a whole lot into marketing. They chose not to advertise this drama to bring in…
I had to take a closer look cuz you said this. So, which lovely gentleman is that? My guess is Cheng Lei from Legend of the Female General or from Shadow Love but it could be about a dozen other actors too. It's so hard to keep up :-)
Ep 20. I don’t quite get the dynamics between ML and the young boy in the house (A-Shen?). Ok, he is annoyed…
I think the boy wanted to be a full member of the group but they kept pushing him back because he was too young. Also ZL really is his older brother/father figure at a time when most kids are discovering that their parents are just human and not perfect. ZL has fallen short of his hopes. He's disappointed A-san by failing to protect everyone and by doing some unethical things without explaining why and the boy couldn't figure it out the why's on his own.
Plus, sometimes we shoot the messenger or the person in charge ... because we just feel like shit about whatever has happened ... even though they aren't all powerful and all knowing the way that we want people to be when we look up to them.
At least that's my take. He learned some lofty principles from ZL and then ZL started to fall short of them. Now that he's older and more understanding and he hears ZL talking to TY, he's hearing some of ZL's thoughts out loud for the first time and that's helping him to understand that ZL is still ... basically ... the guy he used to be.
The 16th Prince of this drama is based on Emperor Xiaozong of Mid-Ming Dynasty, widely known as Hongzhi Emperor.…
Salwa Nice this was truly helpful and must have taken quite awhile for you to research and write. THANK YOU. Now it's easy to understand
So ... ? The new system brings cash directly into the crown's coffers. The corrupt middlemen get cut out entirely and they can be arrested at the same time if evidence of their crimes is uncovered during the change. People who had bought salt certificates don't have to take military provisions north any more. They can just buy a permit to sell salt and that's it. Smaller players can get into the business which is now completely controlled by the emperor with no corrupt officials keeping them out in order to maintain a monopoly. And the Emperor gets more power over the military because he can cut off their provisions or delay them any time he wants. Before that, the military had steady supplies from people who wanted to sell salt in the south and they could also bargain directly with farmers and salt suppliers in the north. So, the Emperor is definitely the big beneficiary in all this. He's going to make more money and tighten his control over just about everything. The army will be at risk however, if his yet to be established supply lines aren't up and running fast or they don't end up being reliable enough going forward. And the other biggest problem is that some people aren't going to get paid in the transition ... for what they have already delivered to the military and for whatever permits they bought under the table from the corrupt officials. Maybe they're only being guaranteed 30% reimbursement for their losses and so that's why they were so upset at the event ZL went to.
1 
They really are on different pages. She lost the desire for revenge and restitution while he was learning that you need great power to protect the ones you love.
And that's interesting because most dramas go the way of pursuing and getting both revenge and power and then maybe the main characters survive at the end with there never being any question about whether they should have gone that way in the first place (which should be a lingering question since since there are always hard losses and a body count along the way).
There's one thing that we're kind of missing though (although you have touched on it) and that's the point that Wang pushed ZL with (and to a lesser extent the Emperor has pushed him with). And that is the need to make the world a better place that is more fair to everyone and not just a few elites. And maybe he's the right guy to do it because of his origins. Our unusual ML who is a commoner instead of nobility.
Both things; protecting your loved ones and doing right for the world were the prongs that pushed ZL into battle and into what he's doing now. Although there was an element of just needing to survive as well (especially in war and high politics when your bosses are the ones dictating your course ... even if they are being entirely righteous about it).
So, TY has kind of lost this part. She fell in love with ZL because he did the right thing when it was difficult (saving her, giving the salt away to the commoners who were dying). But she really felt the cost in their separation. And nobody has been reminding her that there is 'right' in what he's doing as well as ambition and danger ... so maybe she's forgotten this a little.
It's a question where you have to weigh what's best and what will cost most for you personally vs what's best and more costly for the wider world. It's right to ask yourself about the cost. It's wise to learn about power and consider how much you really need in order to be safe and happy. TY has learned that you don't need as much as ZL thinks ... in order to stay safe and live well ... (even if you have enemies you can stay out of their way) ... but you need much more if you are to make the world a better place. The stakes are so much higher in that wider context ... and we tend to think of personal/home/woman concerns vs world/public/man concerns when our leads didn't start out that way.
So, let's hope they end up on the same page again for all kinds of reasons. But all of these issues are complex and not usually handled with great subtlety in most dramas.
Anyway, if they handle this kind of complexity and make it more obvious what all the competing concerns really are ... then we might really have a unique masterpiece in front of us. Not just a revenge story. Not just a save the world by doing right story. Not just a get power to save yourself story. Something that's all that and more maybe?
I guess we'll see :-) They seem to be going a different way so far and the arc isn't finished yet.
It's more likely that they'll stop themselves, learn this ultimate lesson and straighten themselves out in the end ... so the rest of the story will be about the learning and the surviving until they can get away to live their own lives without the Emperor using them for every tricky project he needs a blade for.
In fact, it's the Emperor who has been messing them up really. Yes ZL does have some ambition but not nearly as much as the power players think he does. Essentially, he's just surviving whatever is being thrown at him because the Emperor has really not given him any choice but to do what he wants done. Could our ML really have said no?
Anyway, every crisis blows over pretty quickly in this drama so I don't think we should lose energy and hope. Tomorrow is another day ... with two whole episodes and the prep for a wedding. I predict your heart will be full again by the end of tomorrows episodes. :-)
He is shameless opportunism at its finest and, like you say, he's one of a cowardly bunch who hide behind and use the women in the family to make up for their own shortcomings. A pathetic but obvious example of that thing where the real strength lies with the women behind the men ...
He's been trying so hard to improve his position in the world that he hasn't caught up to the idea that he doesn't need to do anything for her except to be there. In truth, he's already overshot the mark and it's backfiring. Her hopes and expectations changed while he was at war. Now, she really just wants a peaceful life together. Revenge. Status. Power. Stopped meaning much to her when she carved her own success and when he went off to war, maybe never to return. Just living and being together became her new ideal but their lives are going to be anything but peaceful because of his "success". His new power, status and responsibilities are the thing that threatens them now. These things aren't the antidote that will make them safer in the world....
So, I could be really wrong in the end, but I think the story is showing that success and a good life are not guaranteed by position and power. In fact, living simply and staying out of the way of power may be the safest course of action and the real path to happiness. It's not the usual historical story. They're subverting the usual story.
Plus, sometimes we shoot the messenger or the person in charge ... because we just feel like shit about whatever has happened ... even though they aren't all powerful and all knowing the way that we want people to be when we look up to them.
At least that's my take. He learned some lofty principles from ZL and then ZL started to fall short of them. Now that he's older and more understanding and he hears ZL talking to TY, he's hearing some of ZL's thoughts out loud for the first time and that's helping him to understand that ZL is still ... basically ... the guy he used to be.
So ... ? The new system brings cash directly into the crown's coffers. The corrupt middlemen get cut out entirely and they can be arrested at the same time if evidence of their crimes is uncovered during the change. People who had bought salt certificates don't have to take military provisions north any more. They can just buy a permit to sell salt and that's it. Smaller players can get into the business which is now completely controlled by the emperor with no corrupt officials keeping them out in order to maintain a monopoly. And the Emperor gets more power over the military because he can cut off their provisions or delay them any time he wants. Before that, the military had steady supplies from people who wanted to sell salt in the south and they could also bargain directly with farmers and salt suppliers in the north. So, the Emperor is definitely the big beneficiary in all this. He's going to make more money and tighten his control over just about everything. The army will be at risk however, if his yet to be established supply lines aren't up and running fast or they don't end up being reliable enough going forward. And the other biggest problem is that some people aren't going to get paid in the transition ... for what they have already delivered to the military and for whatever permits they bought under the table from the corrupt officials. Maybe they're only being guaranteed 30% reimbursement for their losses and so that's why they were so upset at the event ZL went to.