very stupid shvt if you ask me. like okay so what? He's suddenly not the asshole?
Exactly. The story is trying to explain why Itsuki is the way he is, but it feels like it's trying to excuse his behavior, which are two different things. It's Itsuki who chose to share exactly none of this with Yuma, and instead launched into a passive-aggressive period of taking his anger at the world out on his former partner.
I get that there is almost always a lot of background to why people behave the way they do, but it is our reactions to the shit that happens to us that define us, and Itsuki chose to react in multiple, self-destructive ways and direct his free-floating resentments at Yuma.
I had to stop halfway through this episode, as the pity party for poor, misunderstood, victimized, and sainted Itsuki was making me nauseous and I feared I might puke on my keyboard, thus fucking up my computer.
I'll go back later and finish, but half of this is all I can take right now.
Oh look! Poor Itsuki works at soup kitchens and plays with orphaned children! Oh look! Poor Itsuki beat up a customer (or boss, not sure) because he overheard a condescending conversation and, instead of confronting the situation with his brain and words, he chose to go all macho and assault the dude with his fists! Oh look! Poor Itsuki is so noble that he stuck to nearby Internet dumps so he could honor his soup kitchen obligations! Oh look! It was only because of all the above that Itsuki played video games all day, sponged off of Yuma and the camera guy, and fucked a little queen on Yuma's bed! That explains it all! Oh look! Poor, dear Itsuki discovered a cure for cancer and achieved world peace! Oh look! It is only the little camera guy, who has known Saint Itsuki for a few weeks, who knows his true heart, true motivations, and that he cooks really great fried something or other!
This is facile and condescending beyond measure. So insulting to the audience.
On the other hand, I'm sure you know many BL production houses deliberately push their actors to provide fanservice…
Of course, some people are way too obsessed, and would be so no matter what production companies did. AND, many production companies, particularly Thai production companies, require fan service in their actor contracts. AND, most fans know it's fan service and are NOT obsessed beyond all reason. It's a fun, silly, teasing aspect of Thai BL culture that is mostly harmless.
Three things can be true at once.
Some people are killed in car crashes every year, and yet we still drive cars. Some BL fans are obsessed stalkers. That doesn't mean all fan service is evil and should be banned. I know you didn't say that, but it's the natural extension of that perspective.
Please explain what you mean by "fetishization" in the context of this plot?Thanks.
I took the Shiho remark below to be tongue-in-cheek, as in it might as well be Shiho's story because it takes so much time away from the gay story line. I don't think she's been given MORE screen time than the couple, but maybe I'm wrong.
We've also seen plenty of scenes of the couple when she's not around. How could it be her story?
In what way does the project she took over come across as fetishized? I haven't gotten even a hint of that being the case.
The word "fetishized" is tossed around a lot on MDL.
Please explain what you mean by "fetishization" in the context of this plot?Thanks.
I totally get what you're saying, and of course, there are plenty of people who do that. But, if that message is a primary element of what this screenplay is trying to convey, I don't think it's doing a good job.
The spokesperson for this perspective is the least credible and most self-obsessed, belligerent, arrogant succubus in the story. And, the only direct attempt to put the message you describe into words came during a rant from the succubus immediately after he enacted a calculated scene of betrayal and humiliation of the man he's been succubus-sing off of.
I went back and listened/watched the succubus's self-righteous rant a second time. It confirmed what my initial reaction was, that while it certainly applies to a segment of the BL-watching audience, it also applies to a lot of other consumers of many other types of art.
Also, the succubus directed his rant at the documentary director, who does not strike me as a fetishist, but quite the opposite. She wants to produce a documentary that highlights the humanity of gay couples beneath the misconceptions and stereotypes so many people have about them.
Meanwhile, what is the succubus doing but acting out the worst stereotypes about gay men: Sex-obsessed, promiscuous, disloyal, amoral, and shallow? Again, the director of this BL could not have picked a worse spokesperson if the intention is to convey what you suggest.
I suspect that Yuma and the doc director are going to collaborate and turn the piece into one that comes clean on Yuma's pathetic ruse, but weaves the intention behind it into a narrative highlighting how difficult it is for gay people/couples to live fulfilled lives in Japan.
Which leads me to a final point: It can successfully be argued that all societies are largely built on often obvious, "fake" institutions and behaviors. Half of marriages end in divorce, and how many of the remainder experience one or both partners cheating? How many of the remaining marriages are less than "happy?" People pretend in every area of life; why should gay people be held to a standard of authenticity nobody else meets?
Yeah, Itsuki is a douche bag who dares to lecture others about truth and honor, when he knows little of the former and none of the latter.
So far, I'm really liking this drama. As someone who's been a BL fan for a long time and part of the community,…
On the other hand, I'm sure you know many BL production houses deliberately push their actors to provide fanservice meant to foment the hysterical online shipping of which you speak.
The word "fetishization" gets tossed around a lot on MDL in ways that do not fit its meaning.
I'm not saying you are necessarily doing this, but fetishization does not equal "showing an interest in."
Why is it wrong to use an 18-year-old in the series?
(I hope you don't find this "100-page-essay" too intimidating to get through.)
Oh, look who's back. You seem "fixated."
Unsurprisingly, you answered none of my questions. Unsurprisingly, you find a comment containing five brief paragraphs equal to a "100-page essay," and difficult to make it through. Unsurprisingly, you think that 13 and 18 are necessarily the same because, gasp!, they both contain the word "teen." Unsurprisingly, you think all teens are as "young and naive" as you are. Unsurprisingly, you bring up random shit, such as "child-adult marriages," that I did not address nor mention. Unsurprisingly, you equate an age-gap romance with "slavery and torture."
"But let's be honest, 18 year olds are practically kids too... They dont suddenly get any more mature from a 16-17 year old." So, when does this magical moment occur at which an 18-year-old becomes more mature than a 17-year-old? I asked that question above, but you ignored it. Some 17-year-olds are more mature than some 18-year-olds. How does that reality fit into your tiny worldview?
And since, by your own admission, you are a teenager, and thus "naive" and immature, who do you think you are to address these issues? You're just a dumb kid, remember?
Thankfully, a lot of teenagers aren't as naive and brainwashed as you.
Why would Master Phak have a crush on Tanrak? Genuinely in what world would that make sense?
lol That's some great argument you've got for your position there, kei. It's so telling that you didn't answer a single question I asked. Because you can't.
Regarding this discussion, there is nothing wrong with me, but I know what is wrong with you: You've latched onto a trendy, Puritanical mindset that proclaims age-gap relationships as impermissible, but when challenged, you can't support your position.
Why is it wrong to use an 18-year-old in the series?
I'm one hundred percent serious, child.
"...fresh 18-year-old" lol I think you're the perv here.
You answered none of the questions in my comment above. You answered none of them because you can't. You can't rationally/calmly explain your position, so you rely on stupid fallback statements like "And you know damn well how different a teenager and a 30 year old think and act, don't be dense."
I dont' know any such thing, damn well or otherwise. Every single person is different, and it's not up to you or anyone else to tell legal adults they can or cannot date. Age gap relationships have been a fact of life since humanity began to exist. I doubt your shrieking your moral outrage will change that.
There are 18-year-olds who are far more sensible and mature than many 30-year-olds. Is it OK for a 29-year-old to date an 18-year-old? 28? 27? 24? 21? At what magic age does it become OK for someone to date an 18-year-old? Do they have to be no more than six months older, six weeks, six days older? What's the cut-off? Is it OK for an 18-year-old to date a 17-year-old? A 16-year-old? Since the 18-year-old is an adult but also a "teenager!" (you shrieked), is that OK. Did the 18-year-old magically gain all wisdom at midnight on their birthday, or what?
If you're unwilling to answer my questions, don't bother replying.
Oh come on...if the series left them alone, happy, and in love, you'd be bored.It's that fear of what might happen…
I download gifs from the web just as I would a still photo, place it in a folder, then use MDL settings in my profile to place the pic just as if it were any jpg or whatever. Hope that helps.
I love that the movie shows us the gray-area response of a victim when almost everyone in the audience expects the easy black/white one we're conditioned to expect. I'm not saying the crime itself isn't black/white, it is, it's her reaction I'm talking about. Her feelings are wildly mixed, subject to constant change, ranging from rage and despair to carefree letting go, and everything in between. Thankfully for her, Hitsumi ultimately understands and accepts her feelings as they are, and does what she thinks is best for herself.
The sentence of the juvenile hearing judge is wildly unsatisfying, of course. No jail time, no supervised probation, nor mandatory counseling is appalling. But perhaps that is an accurate representation of the Japanese legal system's way of handling such a situation 13 years ago, I don't know. Not only is Hitsumi not given justice, but the young man was done a disservice by that sentence, too. How will he reach a full understanding of the severity of his act and fully take responsibility, all on his own, without a professional therapist to guide him? I doubt that he will, which leaves him a danger to re-offend in the future. I liked his inscrutability during the face-to-face meeting near the end. Was he sincere? Was he lying? I don't know.
I could have used about 50% more time spent with the young couple, which would allow for more character exploration and development. I wasn't given time to understand their relationship before all hell broke loose. The violent act itself should have been more graphically portrayed, too. The quick, cop-out cut away left me with no sense of what actually went down between them. Did Hatsumi continue to fight back? Did she give up and go into a fugue state? Something in-between? I don't know, the film didn't show me.
I like that the film presents us with no pat answers, nor a Hollywood-style ending in which everything is resolved. Life is full of loose ends and tattered threads. To survive, we live with them as they are.
While there is much to like about the film's intentions, the execution is lacking for me. The acting of the two young leads was not so great either. There was much dry-eyed scrunching up of faces and, on Hitsumi's part, quite a bit of high-pitched wailing, but I saw no real tears and no real pain most of the time. I wish the mother had been cast differently. I would have liked to see a woman who looks as if she once had Hitsumi's beauty and natural elegance, an older version of Hitsumi herself.
1 
1 
The story is trying to explain why Itsuki is the way he is, but it feels like it's trying to excuse his behavior, which are two different things.
It's Itsuki who chose to share exactly none of this with Yuma, and instead launched into a passive-aggressive period of taking his anger at the world out on his former partner.
I get that there is almost always a lot of background to why people behave the way they do, but it is our reactions to the shit that happens to us that define us, and Itsuki chose to react in multiple, self-destructive ways and direct his free-floating resentments at Yuma.
Give me a fucking break.
I had to stop halfway through this episode, as the pity party for poor, misunderstood, victimized, and sainted Itsuki was making me nauseous and I feared I might puke on my keyboard, thus fucking up my computer.
I'll go back later and finish, but half of this is all I can take right now.
Oh look! Poor Itsuki works at soup kitchens and plays with orphaned children!
Oh look! Poor Itsuki beat up a customer (or boss, not sure) because he overheard a condescending conversation and, instead of confronting the situation with his brain and words, he chose to go all macho and assault the dude with his fists!
Oh look! Poor Itsuki is so noble that he stuck to nearby Internet dumps so he could honor his soup kitchen obligations!
Oh look! It was only because of all the above that Itsuki played video games all day, sponged off of Yuma and the camera guy, and fucked a little queen on Yuma's bed!
That explains it all!
Oh look! Poor, dear Itsuki discovered a cure for cancer and achieved world peace!
Oh look! It is only the little camera guy, who has known Saint Itsuki for a few weeks, who knows his true heart, true motivations, and that he cooks really great fried something or other!
This is facile and condescending beyond measure.
So insulting to the audience.
AND, many production companies, particularly Thai production companies, require fan service in their actor contracts.
AND, most fans know it's fan service and are NOT obsessed beyond all reason. It's a fun, silly, teasing aspect of Thai BL culture that is mostly harmless.
Three things can be true at once.
Some people are killed in car crashes every year, and yet we still drive cars.
Some BL fans are obsessed stalkers. That doesn't mean all fan service is evil and should be banned. I know you didn't say that, but it's the natural extension of that perspective.
We've also seen plenty of scenes of the couple when she's not around. How could it be her story?
In what way does the project she took over come across as fetishized?
I haven't gotten even a hint of that being the case.
The word "fetishized" is tossed around a lot on MDL.
But, if that message is a primary element of what this screenplay is trying to convey, I don't think it's doing a good job.
The spokesperson for this perspective is the least credible and most self-obsessed, belligerent, arrogant succubus in the story.
And, the only direct attempt to put the message you describe into words came during a rant from the succubus immediately after he enacted a calculated scene of betrayal and humiliation of the man he's been succubus-sing off of.
I went back and listened/watched the succubus's self-righteous rant a second time. It confirmed what my initial reaction was, that while it certainly applies to a segment of the BL-watching audience, it also applies to a lot of other consumers of many other types of art.
Also, the succubus directed his rant at the documentary director, who does not strike me as a fetishist, but quite the opposite. She wants to produce a documentary that highlights the humanity of gay couples beneath the misconceptions and stereotypes so many people have about them.
Meanwhile, what is the succubus doing but acting out the worst stereotypes about gay men: Sex-obsessed, promiscuous, disloyal, amoral, and shallow? Again, the director of this BL could not have picked a worse spokesperson if the intention is to convey what you suggest.
I suspect that Yuma and the doc director are going to collaborate and turn the piece into one that comes clean on Yuma's pathetic ruse, but weaves the intention behind it into a narrative highlighting how difficult it is for gay people/couples to live fulfilled lives in Japan.
Which leads me to a final point: It can successfully be argued that all societies are largely built on often obvious, "fake" institutions and behaviors. Half of marriages end in divorce, and how many of the remainder experience one or both partners cheating? How many of the remaining marriages are less than "happy?" People pretend in every area of life; why should gay people be held to a standard of authenticity nobody else meets?
Yeah, Itsuki is a douche bag who dares to lecture others about truth and honor, when he knows little of the former and none of the latter.
The word "fetishization" gets tossed around a lot on MDL in ways that do not fit its meaning.
I'm not saying you are necessarily doing this, but fetishization does not equal "showing an interest in."
Thanks.
If so, can you provide, in a nutshell, the context you're talking about, please?
If you don't know Japanese, how do you know there is context missing?
lol
Unsurprising. Reading leads to learning, and you wouldn't want that now, would you?
All you've got is insults and childish insinuations.
But...no answers.
Go play in traffic.
Oh, look who's back.
You seem "fixated."
Unsurprisingly, you answered none of my questions.
Unsurprisingly, you find a comment containing five brief paragraphs equal to a "100-page essay," and difficult to make it through.
Unsurprisingly, you think that 13 and 18 are necessarily the same because, gasp!, they both contain the word "teen."
Unsurprisingly, you think all teens are as "young and naive" as you are.
Unsurprisingly, you bring up random shit, such as "child-adult marriages," that I did not address nor mention.
Unsurprisingly, you equate an age-gap romance with "slavery and torture."
"But let's be honest, 18 year olds are practically kids too... They dont suddenly get any more mature from a 16-17 year old."
So, when does this magical moment occur at which an 18-year-old becomes more mature than a 17-year-old?
I asked that question above, but you ignored it.
Some 17-year-olds are more mature than some 18-year-olds. How does that reality fit into your tiny worldview?
And since, by your own admission, you are a teenager, and thus "naive" and immature, who do you think you are to address these issues? You're just a dumb kid, remember?
Thankfully, a lot of teenagers aren't as naive and brainwashed as you.
That's some great argument you've got for your position there, kei.
It's so telling that you didn't answer a single question I asked.
Because you can't.
Regarding this discussion, there is nothing wrong with me, but I know what is wrong with you: You've latched onto a trendy, Puritanical mindset that proclaims age-gap relationships as impermissible, but when challenged, you can't support your position.
Don't feel bad.
There's a lot of that on MDL.
"...fresh 18-year-old" lol
I think you're the perv here.
You answered none of the questions in my comment above.
You answered none of them because you can't.
You can't rationally/calmly explain your position, so you rely on stupid fallback statements like "And you know damn well how different a teenager and a 30 year old think and act, don't be dense."
I dont' know any such thing, damn well or otherwise.
Every single person is different, and it's not up to you or anyone else to tell legal adults they can or cannot date.
Age gap relationships have been a fact of life since humanity began to exist. I doubt your shrieking your moral outrage will change that.
There are 18-year-olds who are far more sensible and mature than many 30-year-olds.
Is it OK for a 29-year-old to date an 18-year-old?
28?
27?
24?
21?
At what magic age does it become OK for someone to date an 18-year-old?
Do they have to be no more than six months older, six weeks, six days older?
What's the cut-off?
Is it OK for an 18-year-old to date a 17-year-old?
A 16-year-old?
Since the 18-year-old is an adult but also a "teenager!" (you shrieked), is that OK.
Did the 18-year-old magically gain all wisdom at midnight on their birthday, or what?
If you're unwilling to answer my questions, don't bother replying.
Hope that helps.
This is the type of thing I might enjoy as a 2-hour movie.
As a dragged-out, seven-hour series, not so much.
I love that the movie shows us the gray-area response of a victim when almost everyone in the audience expects the easy black/white one we're conditioned to expect.
I'm not saying the crime itself isn't black/white, it is, it's her reaction I'm talking about.
Her feelings are wildly mixed, subject to constant change, ranging from rage and despair to carefree letting go, and everything in between.
Thankfully for her, Hitsumi ultimately understands and accepts her feelings as they are, and does what she thinks is best for herself.
The sentence of the juvenile hearing judge is wildly unsatisfying, of course.
No jail time, no supervised probation, nor mandatory counseling is appalling.
But perhaps that is an accurate representation of the Japanese legal system's way of handling such a situation 13 years ago, I don't know.
Not only is Hitsumi not given justice, but the young man was done a disservice by that sentence, too. How will he reach a full understanding of the severity of his act and fully take responsibility, all on his own, without a professional therapist to guide him?
I doubt that he will, which leaves him a danger to re-offend in the future.
I liked his inscrutability during the face-to-face meeting near the end.
Was he sincere?
Was he lying?
I don't know.
I could have used about 50% more time spent with the young couple, which would allow for more character exploration and development. I wasn't given time to understand their relationship before all hell broke loose.
The violent act itself should have been more graphically portrayed, too.
The quick, cop-out cut away left me with no sense of what actually went down between them.
Did Hatsumi continue to fight back?
Did she give up and go into a fugue state?
Something in-between?
I don't know, the film didn't show me.
I like that the film presents us with no pat answers, nor a Hollywood-style ending in which everything is resolved. Life is full of loose ends and tattered threads. To survive, we live with them as they are.
While there is much to like about the film's intentions, the execution is lacking for me.
The acting of the two young leads was not so great either.
There was much dry-eyed scrunching up of faces and, on Hitsumi's part, quite a bit of high-pitched wailing, but I saw no real tears and no real pain most of the time.
I wish the mother had been cast differently.
I would have liked to see a woman who looks as if she once had Hitsumi's beauty and natural elegance, an older version of Hitsumi herself.
7.5/10