jpny01

Well, here they did it on purpose because they're making fun of product placement. I don't even think it was a real placement - he said it was tea, but it was an unmarked water bottle.

I'm not angry at all, I'm just curious how something can make you cringe if you don't watch it.

What went wrong later on?

For me, that shower scene in one of the earliest eps of S2 made me laugh out loud - it was a direct rip-off of a love scene from Titanic. Borderline soft porn is fine with me if it's hot and has a place in the story. Or if it's hot. (Sorry, I'm shallow).

Li Cheng and Mu Ren are the second couple - the comic relief for the main couple - sorry, I misunderstood you. Li Cheng and Mu Ren don't really "develop", they just happen because they're comic characters. I like them too because the actors are so good, but the story is super-predictable, although if Mu Ren ends up being the "1" and Li Cheng the "0", I'll eat my words.

You can't be perfect - and we're all human. It's not like I haven't been unable to resist watching something instead of waiting a week for it to be legal!

Probably all of the above. I don't think what YJ did is right - I doubt anyone does. But rape is a step below murder - a violent act design to "steal" sex or exert power over someone, and being drunk is not some magical state that robs you of your personality.

All these situations are complex, and sex and love aren't about getting permission for everything you do in a neat little box tied with a bow. I personally don't see anything wrong with Li Cheng being aggressive and pushing propriety - if he was a perfect gentleman he wouldn't be sexy. If Mu Ren weren't a bitchy little grump, he'd have much less appeal too.

But they're fitting into yaoi archetypes, so they're a familiar pattern and Li Cheng's aggressiveness is "standard formula". Yong Jie & Xing Si's relationship is a serious departure from common formulas and a lot of people don't seem to know what to make of it. Yong Jie probably most resembles the villain who the seme has to rescue the uke from, so people plug in malignant motives because they don't know what else to do, and young people these days don't know how to back off a position once they've taken it.

So they're all watching the storyline and seeing Yong Jie in a different light but proclaiming they're skipping the brothers storyline when we know they're not, or they wouldn't feel compelled to announce it every episode.

You are, as usual, right. When I was that age, you had to talk to people in person, and it helped you develop social and communication skills. There was no opportunity to be that rude because unlike when you're being rude online, there are consequences to what you say when it's in person.

No, I'm not even slightly triggered about it, and my position is exactly what you just said. This is rated R and they even put a warning on the screen before anything "adult" happens, so if anyone is that upset by anything that happens, well, they were warned and maybe should stick to shows aimed at younger people.

I'm just tired of everyone going on about Yong Jie and pretending there's nothing transgressive about Li Cheng. I don't even have a problem with that in itself except for all the moral judgment they heap on everyone who enjoys the YJ/XS story.

I don't have a problem with either character's behavior. Adults have to gauge each situation individually and take if from there. I think Li Cheng knows that Mu Ren will unambiguously let him know if he goes too far, and in any case, he has no power over him. And their story is the comic relief to the main story, so it's going to have clownish elements like that.

I love that they've subverted the usual seme/uke trope by having the (much) younger brother be the aggressor, and I love the complexity of their interaction - it's usually so much more formulaic.

They're actually the first couple. The other couple is there for comic relief and for contrast against the first couple. What happened to Mu Ren was supposed to show unambiguous non-consent to make you think about Yong Jie & Xing Si - it had no other role in the plot and nothing to do with Li Cheng & Mu Ren's story. There's nothing wrong with enjoying LC & MR, but if it's all someone is here for, they're missing the entire point of the series, not to mention that a lot of people are happy to ignore the consent issues in their relationship because it's their ship. And that's another message of the story lost.

This series is intended for mature audiences and has complex themes - people that are here to watch cuteness are in the wrong place, and working hard to reduce half the story to that, when it's really more complicated. I guess it's comforting to see everything in black and white, but life is almost never like that.

There is nothing in this show whatsoever that upsets me, and I enjoy both storylines. I'm just pointing out it's hypocritical to get all moralistic about one wrong thing and then congratulate another.

I thought the bathtub scene was one of the best in the series so far - but it doesn't change that it was transgressive for Li Cheng to watch Mu Ren masturbate all night instead of calling emergency services.

Also, if you actually enjoy something beacause it upsets someone else, that's sociopathic, but I'm glad you're self-aware.

I'm being triggered? Everyone here thinks you can't consent if you're drunk - that's triggered. You've just told me that it's fine to watch someone masturbate if they've overdosed on rape drugs instead of calling an ambulence.

All I'm saying is that Li Cheng isn't better than Yong Jie. I have no problem with either of them - I love this series. I just think it's silly for everyone to gasp and clutch their pearls at everything Yong Jie does but then think everything Li Cheng does is adorable and romantic.

You just got triggered because you know what you said is absurd about staying with someone and watching them masturbate instead of calling for help. I was waiting for you to have a meltdown over that.

No, I was asking for it. I got drunk and nonconsensually masturbated, so I raped myself. It's a very sad story.

You've made my point for me - we don't know what drug he took, so it's totally irresponsible not to get him immediate medical attention. If he'd died as a result of the overdoes, there would have been nothing Li Cheng could have done to prevent it.

Even if he did know what drug he took, it was totally irresponsible for him not ot have called emergency services.

Did you see this weeks ep yet? He said he watched him masturbate. You can stay with someone without watching them masturbate.

And incidentally, if someone you care about has overdosed on rape drugs, the best course of action is not to strip them naked, put them in a tub and watch them masturbate all night, it's to call emergency services immediately. So if you think Li Cheng's solution was correct, I'd have to ask Waht is wrong with you???

It was totally my fault. I was dressed provocatively.

Mu Ren has also said "no" - apparently "no" means "no" unless it's the ship you support in which case "no" means "keep doing it until I say yes".

Also, watching someone on rape drugs masturbate all night is not OK, and it's certainly not OK to grab their hand and run it over your genitals. Unless it's your ship, then anything goes.

I agree with what you said, but I don't think that's what's going on here. Simply not liking a type of story is of course fine - we all have our tastes - but there's been a lot of moral judgment going on - like accusing people of rape kink for liking the brothers storyline, which is really not that big a deal except that people tend to phrase it "I would never kink-shame someone, but..." or accuse them of defending rape, which is kind of extreme.

In short, there's nothing wrong with liking what you like, but there is something wrong with being morally judgmental of people for what they like, especially when it's incredibly hypocritical.

Because you're not commenting, you're all just popping in to say "I'm skipping the brothers scenes" and then popping away never to be heard from again. That's not a useful thing to post if you have nothing further to say about it.

And as far as hostility goes, if you've actually been participating, you'lll see that anyone that likes the brothers story is routines accused of having a "rape kink" or is a rape defender - not to mention that there is no consensus that that was even rape, which I don't think it was, being an adult that's had sex while drunk without having been raped or raped anyone. Lots and lots of times, like almost every other adult on the planet.

Plus, if you're telling someone that does not feel they've been raped that they've been raped, are you setting yourself up as the judge of such things? Where does that stop? Isn't it up to an individual to decide? (Unless they're a minor)

Xing Si doesn't think he was raped, nor do many other grown ups who have gotten drunk and had sex. The point of the Mu Ren attempted rape was to show the contrast between that and what Yong Jie did. People drink on purpose to lower their inhibitions so they'll have the courage to do things they want to. Mu Ren despite being on a rape drug can still distinguish something he does not want to happen, he's just unable to successfully resist - but he did resist. Being drunk is not nearly as debilitating as a rape drug unless you're incapacitated.

All I know is she's guilty of rape.