jpny01

That was meant to contrast with last episode, but it was too heavy-handed, and I agree, too much. Whenever someone is cartoonishly evil I think it weakens the point. Evil is banal and looks like the guy down the street.

But at least nobody will have any disagreements over that issue for this episode!

I got Flypsyde's impression of it - but I think the subtitles might not quite be right - I'm not sure what Yong Jie meant by "I'll let you come here." Does anyone speak Mandarin? What did he actually say?

OK, maybe I'll just skim through everything and then start watching with 4. Thanks!

I will say that Peak's yellow outfit in the first ep was beyond cute. I hope he dresses like that throughout.

I apolgize too - it sounded like I was saying YU was a bad actor, and I don't think he is - I think Sam Lin is more experienced and that YU was put in a very difficult position that is a stretch for his experience level - that's not his fault. Shu Yi was a student one moment, and then a corporate executive that's all over the place emotionally with a script that doesn't make very much sense the next. All Shi De has to do on the emotional level is be in love with Shu Yi, so that comes through very clearly, and not as much for me the other way around.

I don't think he's bad, but like you said he is inexperienced, and his character has shifted a student in a coming of age story, which he like everyone else has experience with, to being a corporate executive in a story that doesn't really make any sense, which nobody has any experience with. Sam Lin has been able to pull it off better, I think.

I agree with all that. My only question is whether Yong Jie can't take other people's sensitivities into consideration, or has decided that it isn't in Xing Si's interests to do that. If he thought talking to XIng Si would work, don't you think he would have? I don't think this is really the quick fix - he had to undergo training as a bartender and earn and accumulate a large amount of money for this scheme. If he's really intended to be a sociopath, then this can't have a happy ending, because you can't cure or change that.

Also, I find it interesting to reverse the standard yaoi trope - this is not the formulaic uke/seme relationship - Yong Jie is much younger and in a subordinate power relationship with Xing Si.

Hey look! It says 13 eps now! I actually accomplished something for once!

My perspective is that people are bending over backwards to classify it as rape. It was morally wrong and manipulative, and I agree that there is a grey area aplenty, but to call it rape, period, and furthmore to qualify that judgment with a blanket statement that consent is impossible while drunk and thus all sex while drunk is rape, is so ridiculous that I'm surprised we're even having this discussion. Of course sex while drunk can be a rape - but that doesn't mean it always or even usually is. In fact it rarely is. As opposed to being incapacitated, which is a different matter and is always rape.

If he was lucid enough to have a discussion about their mutual love for each other, and let's be honest, could you make an observation like "Why is it so painful? If it is, why don't you stop loving him?" while drunk beyond your ability to consent to sex? The only symptom of drunkeness he really displayed was being tired. As for not being able to walk, loss of motor skills is a fairly early onset of drunkeness, not of extreme drunkeness, and in any case, we don't really know because Yong Jie picked him up immediately, and that was meant to be a symbolic marriage image - even with Xing Si wearing white. And I hate to be crude, but Yong Jie gave him a blow job, and that isn't happening if you're incoherently drunk - not even if you're a teenager.

This scene was very carefully crafted to present a transgressive and morally wrong action that was consensual. There was no point to Yong Jie asking Xing Si if he recognized him, or framing everything he said as a question, requiring a response, and Xing Si intiated sex by grabbing Yong Jie to kiss him on the lips.

If a person is disturbed by this scene, then that's understandable - if you see a level of noncon in it, that's also understandable - but to call it a rape is going too far. It's also predicated on the so obviously faulty assumption that it beggars the imagination that Xing Si has only platonic feelings for Yong Jie - I would agree that he has only platonic intentions, but his desire for Yong Jie is unmissable. If you didn't see it throughout all their interaction (because you didn't want to, which is also understandable), you can't have missed it in the beach scene.

The point is that Yong Jie manipulated Xing Si into doing something he wanted to do, but wouldn't, because, as he explicitly tells us the next day, he doesn't believe it can be consensual due to their authority relationship. YJ felt this was the only way to make it happen, whiel being able to paint himself as the villain of the story to try to gain acceptance of the relationship from their father.

Twisted and messed up, morally reprehensible and terribly misguided to boot, fine. But rapists don't give sh4% if their victims love them or not. Rape is a violent act, even if it isn't actually physically violent - it's either sex theft or an exertion of power over the victim. Yong Jie wants Xing Si's love, and does not appear to desire power over him - in fact I believe he has obeyed him without fail so far, even apoligizing to Mu Ren after everyone had forgotten about it.

And at no point did Xing Si offer any physical or verbal resistance. While not true 100% of the time, if you are not incapacitated, and I think its almost inarguable that XS was not incapacitated, you are able to express resistance to unwanted sex - but in this case it was wanted, regardless of whether or not he would be willing while sober.

I would agree that lack of a no is not a yes, but it's still a lot better than a no, and really, is a yes always a yes? I'd say no. That's why I resist blanket statements that oversimplify what is actually rather complicated - that's why sex with minors is illegal and why we encourage young people to wait until they're ready for sex, preferably within the context of a loving relationship.

If this were the other way around, I think there would be broad consensus that Xing Si raped Yong Jie. That's why this story is written with the reverse age gap, and what makes it interesting nuanced subversion of an established and tired yaoi trope.

Did he have to be carried, or was there desire to carry and be carried? We don't know, because Yong Jie picked him up before they went anywhere. And that was supposed to be a marriage metaphor - which is why Xing Sie was wearing white. In any case, he was conscious when they discussed being in love and had sex. I don't know if you've been drunk like that, but you can't have discussions that complex or in a normal conversational voice when you're super-drunk. Slurred speech, loudness, and being over-emotive are medical symptoms of enebriation. Acohol also makes you tired.

I was drunk earlier this evening, later sober enough to drive, but too tired to do it safely. I probably weigh a little more than Xing Si, had 5.5 strong and cocktails in a two hour period, which I would estimate is similar to what Xing Si did, and I didn't have sex with my brother even once during that time. And I'm 100% sure I was perfectly capable of consenting to sex, but unfortunately there were no offers. If you want, I could try getting drunk with my other brother, but I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have sex with him either. In fact, though I've been very drunk with them hundreds of times, we've only raped each other, let me count... zero times.

I agree with you. I think a lot of viewers don't accept that Xing Si is sexually attracted to Yong Jie, but I just don't see how it's possible to feel that way. It's not only obvious on his face and in his eyes in all their scenes together, the show is full of visual metaphors for their sexual tension, like the phallic bottle in the foreground at the beginning of the beach scene, and if you didn't see Xing Si's sexual feelings before, if you missed them in the suntan lotion application, you're really in a very serious state of denial.

It's more possible to see this as noncon if you belive that Xing Si's feelings are strictly platonic, but if you believe that, then you don't understand how alcohol works. My brother is very attractive, but I don't try to rape him every time I'm drunk - my feelings for him are platonic, and no amount of alcohol in the world can change that - I would likely become violently ill if I were forced into sexual contact with him under any circumstance.

If Xing Si's feeling were platonic, he wouldn't have done it, period. Not without being forced. That's the point, Yong Jie knows Xing Si wants him, and knows he'll never act on those feelings because he's the elder brother and doesn't feel it can be consensual. He explicitly says that the next day. Yong Jie's plan was to lower his inhibitions so that he would have sex with him, but in a way that's trangressive enough that he can go to dad and claim responsibility for what happened.

I have a similar reaction - the scene was so carefully, artfully crafted and worded that it's irritating that people don't even try to understand what's going on in the characters' heads. The scene was shot partially from Xing Si's perspective - Yong Jie is even looking straight into the camera (i.e. Xing Si's OPEN eyes). And he remembers everything clearly in the morning - not only that, but when he first wakes, cuddled up to Yong Jie, he's smiling - until the implications of what he's done sets in.

Even the visual symbolism - the way Yong Jie carries XIng Si bridal-style as a marriage metaphor (and the carrying over the threshold itself is a loaded metaphorically-loaded ritual), emphasized by his white shirt and slacks - it's really beautifully done.

Sometimes I feel that some BL fans are interested in fetishizing m/m love while stripping it of sexuality and reducing it to cute boys being cute to each other - which is the inverse, but no less exploitative, than straight male lesbian fantasies. Sexuality and sexual relationships are complicated messy, and often beyond our control. This is an R rated series - if you can't handle adult themes, why are you watching, right?

I get it - but he's already studied the subjects and prepared for the test (we've seem him doing that all season), which he could easily take. If someone had sat down with him and said, "We support your decision to major in communication arts, but we would like to request a favor of you to take the medical test, as your passing it may help increase the funding the school receives", he may have chosen to do it - the point is they tried to deprive him of a choice by changing his papers without his consent, then applied coersion to try to get him to do it, which is reprehensible. That's all I meant by that. Helping the school could help other students - but in this case the teachers don't appear to care about the students at all, they only care about themselves. I suppose it's good that Prab decided to hold his threat over them to keep them in line, but they should be given at least a strong written warning if not outright fired.

Yes, I agree, if someone is stumbling around barely coherent, then they aren't consenting. That is incapacitation, and if someone has sex with you in that condition, then that is almost certainly rape.

That's not the same as being drunk. If you enjoyed and participated in an activity, I'm not sure how you're being taken advantage of. There are circumstances where that may be true, but it won't be in the vast majority of them. If I say I don't want to play a game, but people ask several times an I relent and play, and then really like it, has anyone done anything wrong?

You have it backwards. You're saying it's always rape, which is absurd, when it's really that it's possible to be rape, but not necessarily or even usually.

Where is the line? How much alcohol can you have before you're unconsenting? Can you have a sip of beer? A glass of wine? Two? What if you don't appear to be drunk and your partner is unaware that you are? Is he a rapist if he doesn't verify your sobriety? What if both of you are drunk? Are you raping each other? What if you go to a bar, hoping to have fun, drink, and find someone to hook up with. If you pick someone you probably wouldn't have if sober, were you raped? If you pick someone you would have picked when sober have you been raped? What's the difference between the two? You're not thinking this through.

It was the same boy - the creepy teacher wiped dirt from his face in the first ep but in a distinctly bad-touch way, and the other teacher hasn't done anything wrong yet and it's not clear that he's inclined to, but we'll see. He may just feel bad because he was unfairly mean to him in class, or he may have been unfairly mean to him in class as a form of misdirected sexual attraction.

I think it was the first ep - a teacher comes up to the gardening boy and wipes dirt from his face in a really creepy and transgressive way. That's shown in the credits, but you only see his arm and not his face. The teacher that's tutoring him has touched him too, but not in any overtly suggestive ways - clapping him on the shoulder when he did well on the test, grapsing he hand on the desk when he was agitated. But because you only see the hand of the creepy teacher in the credits, it's easy to misremember it being all the same person.

To be fair, it's not as obvious to a female viewer how nearly impossible it is to get it up when dead drunk, and most likely not a lot of guys are going to be super-willing to volunteer that information.

I get that we should be concerned about consent, especially when alcohol is concerned, but a statement like "consent can't be given when drunk" is too broad and doesn't really mean anything, not to mention almost every adult alive has had drunk sex. Are we not allowed to have sex when drunk?

How do we define the point where you've had too much to drink to give consent? How do we know that our partner is drunk? What if they are drunk, but not obviously so, and say they aren't? Is it your responsibility to make sure they're not, and if you don't, are you guilty of rape? What if you're drunk yourself? Can two drunk people have consensual sex, or are they raping each other? I don't think people are thinking this through. There doesn't need to be a line drawn in the sand, because we're rational beings that can evaluate every situation individually, because every situation is different.

Also, you can't lump every transgression into one category. If I lie to you and say "The attached file is clean" when it really contains a virus and I steal all your money, that is not the same level of wrong as if I lie and say "No, that outfit does not make you look fat."

Likewise manipulating XS and lowering his inhibitions to the point that he will have sex with YJ, which he knows XS wants to do but won't was extremely wrong and a terrible violation of XS's trust, but it's not the same as slipping him a rape drug and sodomizing him in his sleep. Motive also matters. Rapists don't give a sh#$ if their victim loves them or not. They dehumize their target and take what they want. That doesn't mean you can only rape someone if you're motives are bad, but it is a factor to consider.

There is a danger in calling things rape when they aren't - if that becomes commonplace it will cast doubt in many people's minds when the accusation is raised, and that's the absolute last thing we need. It's extremely important that everyone who believes they have been raped be listened to. It's extremely rate for people to falsely make rape accusations, so there isn't a problem today, but I'm a little scared that so many people here think that being drunk (as opposed to incapacitated) makes consent impossible.

I know! There is so much talent in this show, and obviously a healthy budget. It's only the writing that's an issue. I'm not sure I've ever seen better costume design than this, the acting, cinematography, directing, even in what is happening, the pieces of it are excellent, they just don't go together in a coherent way. I love the dialog, the characters, so much about it, but it's frustrating. Even the dad is a classic - I don't we've ever seen a dad character like that. I thought the scene between him and Shi De was perfect!

How is that a hate comment? I feel Shi De's side of the chemistry and not Shu Yi's. I've always felt the actor was weaker than the others - that doesn't mean he's a bad actor or that I hate him. I'm often amazed that people see magical chemistry where I don't. Sometimes I think people insert the chemistry where the BL formula tells them to, or maybe they have better imaginations than I do. In 1,000 Stars, Tian has probably hundreds of times more lines than Chief, but in that case I feel the chemistry stronger from Earth, although I feel it from both of them. It really isn't dependent on how many lines someone has.

I think 10 is a default when the number of eps isn't known, and then nobody changes it. I've actually tried to, but the administrators seem to reject almost all changes, even when you explain them. It appears that it was always 13 eps.

I don't watch programs written as BL and censored down to bromance. If we watch them, they'll continue to censor BL.

I thought hitting the steering wheel was too much - it doesn't seem like Gene. But his breakdown was absolutely reasonable. I guess a lot of viewers don't think lying to someone to worm their way into their life and HOME is a big deal?

It's kind of like the Aey hatred, even though he's done absolutely nothing wrong except commit the unforgivable crime of having a crush on a member of the main ship.

There's a formula, and it doesn't matter what a character says or does, all that matters is that the ship sails. Rape him to start the relationship? Sure, why not? Murder people? Fine, so long as it isn't his mother (unless she's trying to keep them apart, then it's fine). Completely invent a false persona and become an actor just to worm your way into someone's life? No problem, as long as they get together.

OF COURSE Gene is devastated! I would react exactly the same way (actually I would be cold and merciless and have a breakdown later). Ugh, sometimes I just want to give up.

If it's not clear, I agree with you.

On the other hand, what didn't make sense was for Sib to just state at Gene for 45 minutes, say "I have a reason" several times, and then stare more and not just tell him what the reason is. That was bad writing - or bad acting, if it was supposed to be Sib struggling to say something, but unable to.