koreanbosuji

Ooops you are right ;-p

Second Male Lead (SML) is usually used for the second person chasing the lead female?? Is it?
SML is sometimes also use for a second couple set?
Old Gao had the send important (plot wise and screen time wise?) male lead and so automatically I thought it was him .. and so Xu Lina and him were the Seconds in my head :-D
Old Gao was not the S ML I guess.

The Artist was soooo shweet that he blended into the wall .. lol ..
He was a LOVELY LOVELY MAN .. but like an older brother (gege) .. as would be if you grew up with a personality like him since childhood .. He'd be perfect romantic partner for a woman who is seeking comfort and caring and a place to rest and heal, he doesn't much like waves and ripples ..

Zhu Yun has had a 'perfect' 'happy' childhood with WONDERFUL caring. respectful parents .. she isn't looking for healing or comfort .. she's been nurtured IN it, like fish in water ..
What excited her was the swirling eddy of Li Xun .. the dark, difficult him who yet had the shining light in his eyes .. looking into the future of great things to be done .. the suppressed passion, the love he was capable of (that he'd direct at her with such intensity, looking into her eyes .. you could see her feel the heat from his fire). She sought adventure and excitement and RISK .. and it was what Li Xun embodied.

The Artist personalities do exists in real life LOL ..
They can only hope to be BEST male friends of women like Zhu Yun.

Let me digress a bit more (because I LOVE this show SO much) .. IF Zhu Yun had not off chance caught sight of Li Xun (when she was in the cafe after returning from the US .. If the last memory of Li Xun for her was the 'horrible stuff' he told her when she met him at the prison .. She'd be living with the "trauma' of that relationship .. and Sweet Artist would be the perfect balm for her bruised self.
She'd have returned to the US as was her initial plan and ended up choosing the less turbulent .. calm and peaceful life of a Programmer with her sweet hubby .. who is always there for her .. it would be very similar to her life pre-Uni, smooth, planned, risk-free , when she was living with her parents; life as she knew before she met the great adventure of her life.

Seeing Li Xun so unexpectedly, "accidentally" (of course we know it was manipulated by Ren-Di) stirred up her old fire (he always had her in his magnetic force field) AND then she found out about the L&P fiasco - betrayal and all .. She ignited into a blazing woman with a unilateral mission .. to put things back to where they belong .. She knew in her gut that something had gone terribly wrong and that she didn't know the half of Li Xun story.
( the use of flame / lit up imagery is intentional ;-p

Ok .. nuff for now ;-p

AWWWWW!!!!
Yessss.
Just got heart flutters AGAIN. thinking of the drama and those two actors and HOW FANTASTIC they were.

I so want the MDL rating for the show to rise to >9

The softer face of Li Xun .. (like a great doctor who also has superb bedside manners) .. she is supremely ambitious also .. and a go getter

Oh Dear .. Please could you should put a SPOILER TAG on this

Is there romance ? Running attraction between the leads as solid part of the story structure?
Skinship?

I can't get interested in shows unless there is some solid man-woman attractiondynamics playing out ;-p

Is there romance ? Running attraction between the leads as solid part of the story structure?
Skinship?

I can't get interested in shows unless there is some solid man-woman attractiondynamics playing out ;-p

ROFL

unbearable FL .. character portrayal / scripting made worse by terrible inconsistent acting.
There was NO coherence.

At least the ML character had some consistency .. slipped terribly at times .. CRINGE

The show became CRINGE CAPITAL as it progressed .. and the RED FLAGS were actually the irritating FL Family and ML father .. The writer did not balance out their ridiculous rudeness and hypocrisy with a solid commentary on it.

I watched this actress in Fireworks of My Heart!

She delivered a FAR superior act .. consistent and in character ( few bad slip ups) but overall pretty good. She seems to deliver her scenes 'literally' as per the directions of the PD team, doesn't spend much mind in 'thinking' and 'wearing' her role

"People pleaser" has a disparaging, derogatory connotation and I wouldn't label her as that.
She has a pretty good repartee and witty ways of putting people in their place .. And she doesn't baulk from calling a spade and spade .. and will step up to clear up 'misunderstandings' upfront without 'brooding' about it and overthinking by herself

Yes Zhu Yun is made of top notch 'diplomat' material .. excels at conflict resolution.
If you remember she is given the title of "Commissar" by Li Xun and others also jokingly call her that ..
She has an incredible ability to make peace / be fair / bring about a win-win solution.
She understand human frailty and has immense empathy but will not sit back to watch 'wrongdoing' and 'injustice'.

If she were the leader of a party / country she'd be called a 'statesman'

;-D

I hope this will become 9 one day.

Elia .. I agree FULLY.

How AMAZING that SO SO SO SO MANY of us have been weaned off MOST other dramas after watching this ONE SHOW ..
L&P has set a record I think in terms of HOW deeply it has affected one segment of viewers that NOTHING ELSE seems to be giving them that same high!!

This same group of people have been lingering around here LONG LONG after the they watched the show .. BECAUSE it's on their rewatch list .. and being watched again and again with deeper interest - the way we listen to our fave music .. until it live plays in our head.

It's the first drama that I gave a rewatch of 10. Endless rewatch loop.

I agree with you on
"Time and again I wondered is this lixun & zhuyun or jingyi and feiyu"

I notice that you are watching Bright Eyes ;-p

I watched EVER NIGHT 1 after finishing L&P couldn't get enough of Fei Yu.
It's probably the BEST, MOST MATURE WUXIA drama. Am yet to find a Wuxia drama that has SUCH a superb story and direction and actors. It was sometimes like watching LOTR and sometimes like GOT ;-p (script wise)

Yes .
His sister / his mother / Ren Di / Fu Zhuo (the Latin Dancer buddy) / Zhu Yun (of course. she even reads his mind of when he means a 'yes' lol) and the Chief of Flying Hearts (the Game Company), even to a great extent his Proff Lin.
AND Hou Ning (his cell mate from prison - altho' briefly he gets SO jealous and feel rejected by Li Xun - but returns to him loyal as ever).

The BIG tragedy in the heart of this show is that one of the people Li Xun puts his full faith (and respect) in betrays him HORRIBLY!!
This one person FAKES loyalty.
Long ago he'd made up his mind to play the long game and with single minded intent was hoping to seize the first chance he gets to ground Li Xun and bury him .. Which he repeatedly tries to do, and in the process ends up destroying himself. His 'cancer' of the mind literally spreads to his body.

LOL .. interesting POV.

Wonder why you felt he (Old Gao) was more mature than Li Xun.
Examples?

Well - it felt like a stab to the stomach. Never before in any drama did I get such a severe JOLT.
However it also intrigued me and made me enter into the dark core with a sense of greater curiosity and pull of discovery .. where will this drama go now? What will the characters do now?
I'd count Innocent Man as one though. That gave me SO MANY JOLTs.
The Red Sleeve AND BLOODY HEART also.

:-)

That's been the refrain from one camp of viewers, and if you haven't been pulled into the show out of curiosity about these characters, or taken a shine to the leads inspite of their personality traits, or been attracted by some aspect of their character then it'll be tough to stick to the show.

Maybe you already dropped the show ;-p but still I thought I'd chip in with my tuppence because you began your comment with "I love this drama".

The drama is a 'slow burn' in the sense that the relationship doesn't change overnight .. there are teeny teeny bits of movements (you'll miss it if you are not in full engagement mode) small chipping away and adapting ..
For some of us that has been AS thrilling (squee moment of heart flutter) as potent as finger touching - handholding level of skinship in many saeguk / staid shows).

There is absolutely no way I'd agree with the statement that he stays the same. He takes bigger and bigger hit to himself emotionally / professionally / on his life risking and betting on people he has decided to trust. When he makes up his mind to trust, he'll stay loyal to the core .. but it's also a grey scale .. as we all humans are. In that this is ONE of the prime reasons we LOVE this how .. the REALNESS and Slice of Life Feel it creates.

And neither does Zhu Yun stay the same .. she too bends and adapts and changes in such small bits that if you aren't following their words and actions closely and connecting dots .. you'll miss the change.
She literally turns 180 degrees from the girl traumatised by the "public" image of her as Li Xun's gf .. from the harsh incident of her best friend during her high school years that involved viral social media .. to the endgame which hammers in what she has evolved into. The endgame also brings into FULL FOCUS (for ALL the lead main and support characters in the show and for the viewer) the test and proof of what lies in the core of Li Xun's heart.
Remember he is a VERY private person (as is Zhu Yun) and he is ambitious above all.

Would have written a more detailed analysis but it'll involve spoilers .. and you didn't mention how far you have watched .. so I just left most deets out :-D

Lastly, suggest just play by ear and feelings .. some shows we just cannot glom on to even though they were a HUGE HIT (MDL ratings / Dramabeans ratings / Viki Ratings unanimously), because the dramatic style of the show doesn't match (too linear / too looped), the theme doesn't match / the actors leave you cold / expectations aren't met.

That's the beauty of hanging out here .. we'll find our tribe and enjoy talking about shows we loved (why we loved them) with them :-D
AS well as maybe have a back and forth with those sitting on the fence and wondering if its worth it, "did I miss something" feelings ;-p

To fully relish the drama it does require some basic understanding of the IT industry, gaming, programming, and the of era when Apps and smartphones were taking off ..
It's a solid part of the meat of the story ..

JUST the relationship part of the story falls apart without this aspect since it's entwined in the core of Li Xun's life and dreams .. as well as Zhu Yun's who got 'infected' by the love of Programming same time as she got 'infected' by her love and adoration of Li Xun.

I've long suspected that one of the reason it's not captured the imagination of those who disliked the drama has to do with that.

There are other reasons too - I've been following this thread to even read the negative comments to understand what triggered viewers.

I personally have often dropped great, well made, highly rated shows NOT because they were bad .. some where VERY well made and promising, it's just that the jargon of the profession or intricacies of the work lives of the show went over my head ..

- Most 'finance / business' heavy shows (MONEYFLOWER??) or Game Based shows (O2O / Falling into you / King's Avatar / You are my Glory / Go Go Squid were all drops for me )
- Govt and Politics based shows (I cannot make out / differentiate party affiliations .. the one upmanship .. the Korean politics and system of govt etc where I'd need to REALLY need to SLOW down the viewing speed).

If the human relationship part of shows are not SOLID as well and ONLY focuses on the professional aspect .. then it's a DROP for me .. even though am sure its a great show with super actors.

It's my tasty bites drama .. I LOVE to go back again and again to pick up bits and pieces that I inevitable missed .. so many dots and hints and inferences to be made in this drama.
A true blue gem

Yes.
That's what I recall.
We infer that Li Xun had a convo with Proff Lin and college board and got permission to run the Base.
He also argued for credits and payment if a project goes through for all those who sign up.
And he persuaded them to drop the morning study class since it was not adding anything to upping their programming skills.

Li Xin was 100% correct (along with Proff Lin) talking and discussing Programming is going to take you ONLY so far .. "breaking a few keyboards" doing REAL LIFE programming for ACTUAL companies and projects is what will give them better skills to enter the job market.

It's a Practical heavy course ..

He was also prescient when he makes the observation that the College entrance test is a "watershed" .. from then onwards you are going to learn less and less from classes and text books and need to engage with the needs of the REAL world.

He's of course a genius and knows what is time wasting for himself .. but in setting up the base he created a win-win opportunity for himself (earn money and experience and get contacts to set up his own enterprise the fastest he can) as well and equip his fellow mates for the job world AND get the backup help he needs finishing projects that earn the Uni points, and influence and fame.

I guess there is a shortage of rooms .. this was an abandoned building .
The club and Base were to share the space (Proff Lin probably knew the club would disband).
Or the Uni was in a constant state of renovation (remember the gym-dance class was relocated also)
And every Uni has some abandoned area that students start to use (eg the roof top Li Xun parked in and EVEN used a lock on ;-D

OK digressing.

I LOVE this drama SOO much - always something to be inferred and nibbled on

Me neither .. (fist bump)

BUT I got pulled into one (the hook and first episode was powerful) : HIDDEN LOVE
... and then out tumbled (serendipity was unusually high) TWO more back to back .. and the some more after that.

Which therefore made me feel the same way .. Chinese dramas are getting slicker