kyaasnow

This gives The Glory vibes (which I loved). I can't wait to watch soon! Looks like episode 3 is out with subs: https://x.com/mikilove13fs/status/1749658844085559397?s=20

Agree with everything, but also wanted to add that the message of the show also ignores that there are a lot of systemic reasons that contribute to people wanting to commit suicide. Yijae couldn't achieve all the things society says one needs to be happy & successful. You have to compete against all these people and get a respectable job, you have to have a girlfriend, you have to get married and support your family, etc. And he couldn't achieve that and because that's all anyone expects, he couldn't see a way out and decided to end his life. And then the narrative wants to act like HE is selfish and mean and can't appreciate life. As if all these outside pressures and the lack of societal support didn't contribute to it. It's so dumb, and exactly what so many of us suicidal people have faced in real life. I'm so tired of suicide being treated as only a personal failing and not something that is exacerbated by the ridiculous standards the world holds us to.

Totally agree with feeling off about the way they treated suicide. I'm so glad someone else pointed it out!

I liked the eventual message of living without fear, etc. but the fact that it was all wrapped up in this "don't kill yourself, you're making everyone else sad" box, which I, as a suicidal person, found pretty offensive and dangerous. There were better ways they could have gone about this. I never read the webtoon, so I don't know if it was the same way and they were just following the original story, but that was also the main thing that disappointed me.

oh my god, the original 2016 film is one of my FAVORITE films of all time. what i loved about that one is although it was supposedly about this love triangle, it was mostly about the girls' friendship. in the end, they always loved each other the most, especially on an sheng's side. i really really hope this version captures that same feeling, rather than falling into a typical love triangle... i've been real disappointed by korean media this year when it comes to female friendships and sapphic undertones, so i'm worried!

I do agree with you that eps 9 and 10 exposed a lot of communication issues between the friends. Even little things, like how Jiyeon was communicating with Sohee and not Jigoo, and then Sohee, knowing Jigoo was trying to reach Jiyeon, didn't just call her and say like "Oh I heard from Jiyeon, she's fine?" That just seems like something friends would do. And also Sohee, who claimed she wouldn't take sides, took Jigoo's side before ever hearing from Jiyeon. Jigoo even told her she could call her (a really big move from Jigoo tbh, which I think shows how she still has a weakness for Jiyeon even after all that) but she never did, and took Jigoo's side right away.

The writer is certainly not perfect and I have a lot of issues with her work. But I do see where you and I can't agree: you see Jiyeon as egocentric. I see her as a person with codependency issues that she never dealt with and then was enabled by friends who never called her out for it. So for me, it's a problem that can be dealt with, because it's something avoidable, and not just intrinsic to who Jiyeon is.

Well, I'm sorry that what happened to you in your past hurt you so much, and that it makes you not able to bear a fictional character also behaving that way. I hope the drama ends in a way that satisfies you.

I'm looking forward to seeing how they'll wrap this up, and personally I hope the friends can reconcile. It's supposed to be a drama about friendship, after all, so I would be disappointed if the theme ends up being what Wooju said after all, that dating should come before friends.

But that's the thing, everyone's flaws are different. That means they'll all have different effects. Jiyeon's flaw happens to affect the girls more directly. I still think it's weird, though, to act like Jigoo is the only one in this situation who developed insecurities. It's just her insecurities made her closed off. Jiyeon's insecurities made her possessive. (I continue and continue to say: she was not trying to hurt Jigoo or diminish her confidence! What she did over the years wasn't right, but did she really realize what it was doing to Jigoo? Probably not!)

But even though the other characters are calling Jiyeon out, that still does not mean she's supposed to be a villain. Sohee's angry, but she's obviously sad about it. That montage at the end of ep 10 was not something you give a villain that you want the whole audience to hate. They even tried to redeem Jigoo's mom at the end of that one episode—this isn't a show that gives black and white answers to things, which is the beauty of it. So that's why it's weird that people have been so quick to hate Jiyeon and write her off as the worst character in the whole show. As if what she did is worse than Jigoo's mom trying to control her life for like 23 years, telling her to get over her student that died, pretending she didn't know her in front of her friends, and blaming her for her health problems.

Well, you relate to Jigoo so that's probably why you hate Jiyeon, but I relate to Jiyeon so that's why I know she can change. When I understand characters' motivations, it's easier for me to see a redemption arc for them. I don't think I mentioned this earlier, but I love complex characters and characters that feel very human. I always choose flawed, traumatized characters over more 1-dimensional ones who've never done anything wrong. (For example, with Avatar: The Last Airbender, I'm an Azula apologist because she's a victim of abuse and I believe she deserves a redemption arc.) So I guess it's not a surprise to me that I still care about the character everyone else hates.

But since I can really only relate to Jiyeon's side of things, I'm interested to see what Jigoo's side to this is. She hasn't actually said much, except that she felt inferior to Jiyeon. She went to Wooju, but we don't know why. That confession was weird, "I don't need friends anymore." It looks like they're talking right after that, in the next episodes preview, so hopefully we'll get to know what she's thinking.

I think no matter what you may think about the characters right now, most people can agree that Eunji and Sunhwa did an amazing job in episodes 9 and 10. Their acting was pitch-perfect, and really nailed the tension without going overboard. I think they both understand their characters so well.

I think I understand what you mean, but when you forget about the romance part of it (the guys in the past were not Jigoo's romantic prospects, though. So really it's only Wooju) then you can see that the problem is not her wanting to ruin Jigoo's confidence with men, but her self-sabotaging because of her own insecurities. It's about her, not Jigoo.

I think you all are getting sidetracked by her getting rid of the men in Jigoo's life and forgetting that at the core of the issue is a woman who lost the only person who ever loved her unconditionally (her mother) and became codependent with her best friends because she didn't learn a secure attachment style. She also had never been friends with other girls before, so 1) only knows guys as people to flirt with and 2) probably never set good boundaries with the girls—particularly with Jigoo, who also didn't have experience having female friends. And Jigoo, in turn, probably didn't know how to set good boundaries either, which is why she let Jiyeon do it. That's probably how she and Jiyeon developed this codependency (don't forget that Jigoo also doesn't have good boundaries. Wooju called her out for being "too" focused on her friends).

I have something I wrote about Jiyeon & the likely reasoning behind her behavior in episodes 9 and 10, but before I paste that here, I just want to add: I think it's very weird that people are taking this one fact and claiming it makes her a 100% horrible friend and character, as if she hasn't been such a good friend for the past 20 episodes (s1 and s2). Who got to Sohee's dad's funeral before anyone else and organized the whole thing? Who sold her inheritance—the last thing she had from her mom—to get Jigoo out of trouble? Who tried to keep Jigoo from going to jail? Who has always kept quiet about her mom's death, to keep her friends from feeling sorry for her? There have been many other, more horrible characters in this show (Jigoo's mom, anyone?) yet it's strange that y'all can turn so quickly on a main character just because she got in the way of your favorite romance subplot.

It's obvious in the directing and writing that Jiyeon is not a villain. People are happy to accept everything else the drama presents to us: the lackluster romance between Jigoo and Wooju, the idea that 3 broke girls in a rundown apartment can afford a Smeg toaster. But when the drama is clearly showing us that a character has trauma and deserves empathy, everyone thinks the drama is wrong. Why is that?

Anyway, I don't know if you could hold back your anger to read this far, but if you did, I'm pasting here what I wrote elsewhere about why Jiyeon acted the way she did in these episodes. I'm not excusing her. But I think it just shows that she can be redeemed. You just have to get past the "10 years of Jigoo not dating anyone" to understand.

[ok one more thing then i swear i'm done for the night: bc i've been in jiyeon's shoes, i think there's also something to be said about when you're so insecure you don't even believe you can actually hurt someone. did jiyeon really think jigoo would spend the whole day running around the city looking for her, cancel her date, file a missing persons report bc she wasn't answering her calls? probably not! when you're so sure your feelings (platonic included!) aren't reciprocated as much, even though you're doing something mean, you might not actually think you're hurting someone. because you don't actually believe they care enough to be hurt by you. could jiyeon have been like "well she has her bf now so even if i ignore her it doesn't matter bc she doesn't need me anymore?" maybe!

purposely sabotaging your friendships can be a tool of self-validation. "they were going to leave me anyway, so them leaving me now is proof they never liked me." even though obviously they're leaving bc you've hurt them. but you're not thinking that way

and also, it's possible to be as mean as jiyeon was in ep 10 BECAUSE you don't think you can actually hurt that person. so you say/do the most hurtful things you can, because maybe something will stick and give you some proof that that person once cared

and i don't think jiyeon was actually trying to steal wooju away. she was watching jigoo the entire time & i think she already knew wooju wouldn't be like the others. that scene was self-fl*gellation, hoping she could hurt jigoo as much as she was hurting

i don't say any of this to justify jiyeon's actions. she was wrong. but i don't think she's irredeemable. she needs to confront her insecurity. girlie probably needs some therapy. but she'll need friends who'll be patient with her while she learns. hopefully she finds some]

Thank you!! I totally agree, all three girls have major flaws and emotional issues and trauma, so why is it only Jiyeon getting the hate? (I feel like some of it has to do with the fact that most people are just mad she's getting in the way of Jigoo's loveline. That type of thing is what always gets female characters the most hate, isn't it? 🙃) I mean, in ep 8 there was the mother who tried multiple times to abandon her baby, and got only a very shallow redemption arc, yet I didn't see anyone up in arms about how she's an unredeemable character?

I keep thinking about what Eunji said a few times about this season, that it's basically about growing pains and the girls learning what it means to be an adult. You can tell the point of this season is basically a coming-of-age. Whereas the first one was more about just their friendship, this one is about them as people. Them going to the mountains and then coming back to the "real world" seems like it was a metaphor. Growing up is hard! Adult friendships are hard! The drama is doing what it's always done, which is show what real people are like.

I have to say, I had become really disappointed with the last several episodes, but ep 16 was able to bring me back in and left it on a really good (albeit heart-wrenching) note. I'm really glad they were able to wrap it up quite well despite how convoluted things got. Overall, I feel this drama would have been stronger and perhaps attracted more attention if it had gone more for the dramatic route like it did in ep 16, rather than a thriller. Where this show really shined was in the moments of humanity, so it's too bad that wasn't the focus for so much of it. Still though, I'm pleased with the ending.

Selfishly, I wish they'd hinted at a relationship between Eunki and Sungjoon (or at least had them speak informally with each other finally!!!) but I think where they left them was perfect.

I agree with how ep 16 made me wish they'd stuck with that message the whole show, with empathizing with the victims. I think this would've been much more powerful if that had been the focus. The beginning of this drama was great, but it lost its way in the middle. I'm glad it was able to come back with a strong ending, even if it still did leave a lot of plot holes.

After seeing the clip from the upcoming ep 16 (no spoilers, don't worry) I need to say here what I already said somewhere else: I'm really disappointed in what they've done with Eunki's character. I understand everyone in this drama has suffered and been betrayed, but I feel like they've particularly broken down Eunki in a totally unnecessary way.

She has a big heart and faith in humanity and strong sense of justice, and that's what makes her a good social worker. And if the writing were more focused on fleshing out the characters, that should have been her strength and could have been useful plotwise. But instead they decided to break her down to where by the end of this, she'll probably never trust another person again. She made such a dramatic declaration about being trusting in episode 2, a stronger writer would have circled back on that and used it for something.

I have a lot of frustrations about the writing (despite me liking the drama) but this one stood out to me after watching that clip. Anyway, I'm interested to see how they're going to wrap this up. I'd love for at least Sungjoon and Eunki to get some peace in the end.

This is what made me so mad about episode 13 tbh. We're supposed to be cheering for Sungjoon to free the hostages because "revenge is bad!" or whatever. But I was like honestly half the people in that room actually do deserve to die for their actions! Baek and Yeom especially! But the drama is so concerned with showing how evil the victims of the past became as adults. I'm going to be really, really, really disappointed if the drama ends with the perpetrators still walking free and Yoonjae & co. behind bars or dead or something.

I honestly can't stand a "revenge is bad!" story. I wish this had been more of a story about sympathizing with victims and holding bad people accountable for their actions.

I totally understand where you're coming from. I also started feeling uncomfortable after I realized this was inspired by real events, but what makes me upset, rather than the "find the killer" thing, is trying to figure out what the message of the drama is. I think part of it is definitely showing how basically everyone can be complicit if they turn a blind eye. Like how the people who thought they did nothing wrong in the past were actually still guilty of perpetuating the atrocities because they decided to ignore what was going on.

But the drama also seems so obsessed with the "everyone is morally grey" angle, that it makes me upset because they're not even allowing us to feel sympathy for the victims, because they're making them all villains in the present day storyline. We don't get to see the victims as humans who are allowed to make mistakes and be traumatized while also trying to be good people. That's what really bothers me. Now we have all these perpetrators (in the drama) walking free because the victims are supposedly the big "bad guys." And even though in real life the perpetrators are still walking free, it's not because the victims are bad people. It's because the government doesn't care. But the drama is instead trying to make us despise the victims as well.

It just makes me uncomfortable. I understand now why at the beginning of each episode they claim that the show is not based on real events (even though it basically is) because it gets really messed up when you compare it too much to the real events. Personally I'll watch till the end though, because I want to see if they're able to redeem themselves somehow, or at least get the perpetrators behind bars or something.

December air date! Christmas is cancelled, I only know Work Later, Drink Now. 🤭

This is the article: https://www.aljazeera.com/features/longform/2021/12/22/surviving-south-koreas-house-of-horrors
And this is the twitter thread: https://twitter.com/apriseuldiyana/status/1545297569638559744

I don't think we should get too comfortable with episode 12's reveal... There are still 4 episodes left and several other people are still suspicious!

She was trying to write a phrase that means "a nice guy" but she spelled it wrong. She wrote "조은ㅊ" what she had wanted to write I think was "좋은청년" (the first syllables of each are pronounced the same, which is why she misspelled it. Remember our girl never went to school lol!)