lilili

I think I would've been more invested in Talay's redemption if we'd formed some kind of real attachment to him in the three (!!!) episodes he appeared in before ep 11. By contrast, we had seen Phupha getting victimized by Thyme so many times over the course of the series through flashbacks that when we see what happened to him it lands heavily because it feels like already know him in a certain sense.

I did think the Phupha and Talay actors had great chemistry to the point where I kept thinking they should've gone the BL route with them.

It only got cut short when it aired on GMM tv. You got the full scene if you watched it on YouTube or Viu.

Despite my problems with Ep 11 giving that line to Talay was freakin' brilliant. Reminds me of giving the good shoes take you good places line to Gorya's father.

I understand what you're saying but they are also limited by the plot. They've changed so much but at the end of the day it's a Hana Yori Dango adaptation. This story is hugely problematic and there's no way to completely deproblematize it because what it's really about is women's sexual desire in the face of a potentially annihilating patriarchy. I think considering the source material they've done a phenomenal job. But I also completely understand people who are screw that story, let it die.

I was much more invested in Phupha because we saw him suffer in ep 1 and then there are a lot of flashbacks to that cruelty so seeing how it affected him really hit hard. I agree it would've been way more powerful to see him speaking with Thyme. That's what I mean, the show made us care about Phupha organically while we were being forced to care about Talay.

I'm in the minority on this episode. A lot of people loved it. Also, even with my critique there were parts of the episode that were legitimately powerful. For example, Thyme raised his fist with Gorya in ep 7 when he was jealous and then we get the flashback to him raising his fist with Talay and lowering his fist even after getting slapped in the face. That was amazing callback. And I got legit choked up when Thyme hit send on the social post and when he fell to his knees to ask for forgiveness. Like I said, this episode absolutely had to happen. But the writing just wasn't on the very high level set in some other episodes. (eps 7 and 9 are my favorites).

I'm thinking more about #F4ThailandEp11 and have to say I don't think the writing is as strong as we've seen in previous episodes. The biggest issue I had was with how they handled Talay's character and his relationship with Phupha.

We're introduced to Talay back in episode 8 when he helps Gorya negotiate a better price to clean Tia's dress. Then he periodically shows up in eps 9 and 10 but the writers deliberately keep him as a mysterious figure and I think that was a mistake.

Those early episodes were an opportunity for us to view Talay sympathetically and develop an emotional attachment to him. That would've set up the big reveal so we as viewers would've been as shocked as Gorya. It also would've gotten us more invested in his character arc.

Instead, the writers spent a huge chunk of ep 11 with Talay expositing his entire relationship with Phupha. It was supposed to make us more sympathetic to Talay but instead I felt frustrated spending so much time with a character I didn't already care about.

The scenes that worked for me in ep 11 all involved Thyme and to a lesser extent Gorya (oh and our fave K&K couple). Thyme saying if he fights back he loses was a powerful moment! So was seeing him on his knees. And of course him giving Gorya the meteor necklace was amazing.

These are the same complaints I had about Hana's episode, fwiw. Her monologue was too long and on the nose, if that makes any sense. The series has so much subtle and metaphoric writing (see my fave ep 9 & the billionaire's funeral) that I'm let down when we get a lecture.

Having said that, both the Hana & Talay episodes were hugely important to the themes of the series and to Thyme's redemption arc. The atonement absolutely had to happen. I just wish the execution had been better.

I get why people are upset that Thyme didn't face more severe consequences in this episode but folks, it's a Hana Yori Dango adaptation and it went sooooooo much farther than any other version in calling out the ML's violence and having him accept responsibility. If you can't with this episode then the entire franchise is just not for you.

I think the advice other people are giving you is probably correct and you should skip this. But for another perspective, I know two people who hated Boys Over Flowers with a white hot passion because of how abusive it is and they are enjoying the Thai version. Have all the toxic elements been removed? No, but the drama is doing a great job of contextualizing the toxic behavior and calling it out in within the narrative. It is also grappling with bullying as a social phenomenon (why the school's students are eager to participate in the bullying) and abuse of power among the wealthiest people in the country (there's an incredible 20 minute sequence at a billionaire's funeral that doesn't exist in the other versions). The writing and visual storytelling are complex and not what you'd expect to see in a teen drama. It's definitely flawed but in my opinion well worth watching.

If you do watch, I recommend you skip part one of episode 7, that is the most difficult to watch because of abusive behavior.

This is also a personal aside: women engage with problematic narratives for all kinds of complex reasons and people loving the franchise shouldn't be interpreted as them wanting to be abused or not recognizing abusive relationships in real life. At heart, this story is about women grappling with desiring men in the context of a dangerous patriarchy which is why it still holds power after 30 years.

Girl From Nowhere on Netflix was recommended to me (I haven't seen it but it looks good). One of the writers is also writing for F4 Thailand. https://www.netflix.com/watch/80241859?trackId=14170286

This is an incredible FMV of Thyme and Gorya's relationship that leans hard into how dark it is. I love it. https://twitter.com/EmmaB_Videos/status/1499217144227192832

I thought Nani wasn't getting a song! Excellent news.

Thyme is the black rose (and his mother's name is Roselyn which is fascinating). Kavin is hydrangea. I don't know Ren's flower and I can't ID it based on the episode opening but it's white and sort of looks like a daisy.

"So, to be fair, if you’re expecting a tropey romcom teen drama with a bit of angst, this could all be a bit weird and confusing." <<< YES THIS. But one thing that's been incredibly gratifying is how many people I see who are getting and appreciating the story that's being told. I find it very moving that the storytellers trusted us enough to get it.

Meanwhile the red card keeps showing up over and over again. The invites to the birthday party where his mother announces the engagement are red cards and the red carpet at the billionaire's funeral is a visual red card when Kavin says the game of how the country will be run is changing. It's alllllll about the metaphors and what the red card stands for and why Thyme has to consciously dismantle the harm he caused.

It's great to hear from someone who hasn't seen the previous versions! A few thoughts based on what you wrote:

Gorya's push and pull with Thyme is in line with what you see in other versions. She's reluctant to fully commit even late in the story. I'm not sure how this will play out with F4T and six episodes left but based on previews and previous versions we will get full romantic moments with them. But will they be enough for people? Personally I'm okay with not getting a huge number of sweet moments because I fell like the story is bigger than just the core romance.

This version isn't more violent than other versions. It's just that this version doesn't sugar coat the violence. For example, the F4 entrance is played as glamorous in most versions even with the bullying but Thailand has them walking into the decrepit stadium and Thyme is wearing two animal prints and beating the shit out of Phupha and it all feels way darker and heavier.

Also in other versions you have absolutely brutal scenes with no real fallout and no sense of consequences. In the manga and one other version the ML tries to sexually assault the FL and slaps her hard across the face. But then they have funny and romantic scenes and tonally it's super weird. F4T is the only version where the ML cancels the red cards and renounces violence, also the only version where he apologizes to the Hana character and the FL for being hurt because of his past crimes.

One BIG change is the episode 9 plot with the dead billionaire's funeral. That is wholly new to F4T and one of my favorite parts of the whole series. I don't see a lot of people talking about it because it's not romantic or even angsty in the traditional way you'd see in a melodrama. But it's hugely important to the story that the writers and director are telling in this version.

At the end of ep 8 Gorya fearlessly confronted Thyme's mother and brought the cookies to the party. At that point she was ready to commit. But then Lita literally knocked her over and then the billionaire died and Gorya realized that Thyme's mother wasn't the big problem, the enormous, overwhelming problem was the entire 1% universe that Thyme and the F4 inhabit. She can fight a person but how can she grapple with a system of incomprehensible wealth and power?

Also Thyme was paternalistic toward her, told her to trust him but never tried to explain what was happening and what he was doing to keep them together. Kavin and Ren spent more time trying to explain things to Gorya than Thyme did. If he'd invited her to try to solve the problems together she probably wouldn't have broken things off the way she did. Thyme can't sideline Gorya, he has to treat her as an equal partner. That's one of the lessons he needs to learn. The big lesson Gorya needs to learn is to fully own her strength and power. They both still have a lot of growing up to do.

The entire funeral scene in ep 9 set up Gorya's withdrawal. She was getting much closer to Thyme before that and they probably would've made it official until she saw the world he inhabited and was very understandably overwhelmed and intimidated, esp. because Lita was right there as a perfectly acceptable and easier choice for Thyme. Fighting a mean mommy is one thing. Entering into an entire universe of extreme power and not having any standing to understand it or navigate it is a whole other thing and that's when she broke it off.

Watching it week to week has been an incredible experience and I'm glad I didn't wait. The conversations and insights are mind blowing and it's because the production is so rich, detailed and carefully thought out that there are a million things to dive into with each episode. We recorded our podcast after ep 9 and one of my podcast partners initially thought we wouldn't have enough to talk about halfway through and lololol we ended up with a two hour episode.

The mid season trailer shows Thyme looking blank and confused and Gorya on top of him screaming in his face so yeah pretty sure we're getting it.