"I condemned him before he killed himself lmfaoooo" okay? based on our little bit of interaction, i dont think your condemnation means much because you lack sound judgment.
"Korean law has always been trash it's nothing new, let's see if they make any changes" this is probably the only sensible thing you've written.
so, if you were a bully, but then faced a public trial for murder charges, you think it's okay for law enforcement and media to start spreading the fact that you were a bully to incriminate and investigate you for murder charges even after you've absolved yourself of all the evidence against you, and it turns out the people who spread the evidence are known blackmailers? are you retarded?
no one is saying he doesn't deserve criticism except a vocal minority. the majority of people who can use their brain think that it was unfair for him to forcefully face a public investigation and for people to spread IRRELEVANT facts in tandem with actual charges against him, as it will create unfavorable biases. this isn't allowed in the court of law and shouldn't be allowed in the public court of opinion when the authorities and government are involved. if unregulated, this is how witchhunts begin.
it's not a contradiction. he faced criminal charges and was investigated for his alleged drug use, not for frequenting a room salon. hell, if the latter were the charge, a quarter of south korean men would be behind bars lol.
It is NOT only a Korean issue. It is an issue for all of us international fans who watch the shows these people…
"There's a thing called the Internet and the idea that you have to live in Korea to know what's going down there is exceedingly stupid. I am extremely knowledgeable about Korea's entertainment juggernaut" 😂😂 you don't even know korean, korean law, or a single thing about its politics but you're "extremely knowledgeable" about korean entertainment. are you delusional or arrogant? this isn't some kpop idol scandal. this is a bon-a-fide police investigation about a korean celebrity. I guess I, too, am a foreign policy expert for every country and for every scenario simply because I can read english articles about them. 😂💀😂
"considering that you only want to know things about it that soothe your hyper-sensitive notions of Korean perfection." do you have reading problems or are you just plain stupid? i am literally criticizing Korea's systemic issues on this thread. i am just not buying into the whole, every korean is some lunatic fan and the lunatic fans is what killed lsk, story.
"I'm American. We have horrible problems here like mass shootings and the fact there are more guns in this country than people. We have a psycho right-wing that threatens to re-elect a criminal former president. We have Puritanical bigots trying to purge libraries of any book that doesn't fit their world view." great, you're an american leftist. unfortunately, idc. maybe you have so much time on your hands that you're willing to share your whole life story, your political views, what is acceptable or not, in your all-so-holy perspective, but i'm not interested.
"And as I'm sure you know, Korea as a whole, celebs aside, has the highest suicide rate among OECD nations around the globe...by FAR. It is double the rate in the U.S. and we're pretty fucked up in many ways." yes, but read leo sigh's article carefully and you'll see why the numbers are getting so fucked. however, even the article has many flaws based on how it interprets the data. you blame kpop shame culture but the rates are basically the same as the U.S. for young people, although korean female rates are higher. it's during middle and late age where the rates become unprecedented. this is common knowledge for anyone who has looked into the numbers. https://apps.who.int/gho/data/node.main.MHSUICIDE10YEARAGEGROUPS?lang=en
are we to believe there are a bunch of korean grandpas and grandmas shaming each other to death??? the world doesn't revolve around kpop or korean entertainment in korea despite its popularity, just as not every single american cares about what's happening in hollywood. are we to blame slut shaming and women's oppression like the article suggests? then why do some of the most oppressive countries have lower suicide rate than some of the most gender-equal countries (for example, sweden vs afghanistan), why does north korea have lower rates than the south, and why are men constantly at least double or triple (but sometimes 10-50x) women's rates? is it because of shaming in general? then, why are japan's rates lower than america's?
stop giving us bullshit one-size-fits-all answers then getting upset that people who are looking at the numbers are not buying into your ridiculous eurocentric solutions.
also, encouraging depressed people to suicide by making ridiculous virtue signaling statements like "Give me a break. How many people stare into the black unknown of death and walk right into it despite their fear? Seems brave to me." isn't contributing to the solution. it's braindead. spare me your crocodile tears.
wdym "this one"????? megan largely contributed to the misunderstanding of international fans by reporting as though k-media and law enforcement launched a witch hunt based on hearsay, or at least that's how most people who post her videos think of the situation. that's not correct either. there was circumstantial evidence that lsk may have been involved with drugs because he was set-up by his blackmailers. once lsk passed the drug tests and requested a lie detector, however, the media started releasing irrelevant information about his affair and ultimately the raw recordings to try to compensate for their lousy pUbLiC iNveStiGaTiOn (and maybe even pressure him into a false confession). there wouldn't be an issue if this was done privately and without making a fucking circus show of the situation or if the authorities had simply owned up to their mistake once evidence tipped out of their favor.
It is NOT only a Korean issue. It is an issue for all of us international fans who watch the shows these people…
"This comment is a masterpiece of Koreanesque delusion, denial and misrepresentation, a good example for others who wish to defend the psycho Korean fan culture that kills celebrities" okay? then, go enlighten the koreans with your holier-than-thou attitude as a bunch of clueless international fans on your own thread. stop spamming people who have different views than you do like a little fucking troll. i think there's enough on our plates already with just the points that bong joon ho brought up and your arguments about psycho fan culture is juvenile. you're inclined to your opinion and i am to mine. go down to leo sigh's thread and comment there. why are you spamming your views on my thread? who here is resembling characteristics of a "psycho fan," you or me?
"So...are you Korean or just some condescending international fan defending the country from us racists and imperialists and shit?" nothing that sophisticated or grand. i just think you're ignorant.
obviously this point is a lot more complex than "media is making up false information and going by gossips fueled by toxic netizens" that you see so frequently here
It is NOT only a Korean issue. It is an issue for all of us international fans who watch the shows these people…
"you'll notice he also called for investigations into the conduct of media organizations, including KBS, and the blood on their hands."
idk why you're writing this??? i wrote "public authorities, who are supposed to inform, serve, and protect them" the part about "informing" should indicate I mean the media too?
how convenient that you edit the quotes whenever you want to. it doesn't just state "Particular attention should be given to scrutinizing the circumstances and motives behind the exclusive coverage by KBS on November 24..."
it also clearly follows "which included numerous details from the precise analysis results by the National Forensic Service" stop relying on the megan journalist or whoever you guys keep posting. my point is, and what is clearly stated in this article, is that the recordings on KBS were verified by the NFS.
the comments about yellow journalism is about LSK's DRUG allegations, but law enforcement and the media released IRRELAVANT information about LSK's affair to assassinate his character. in an official court case, this is known as tainting the jury and is not allowed (at least to the extent of how it was disproportionately done against LSK). the problem is korea's trial took place outside of a court setting and in public limelight. despite lsk's desires for a private investigation, law enforcement refused and colluded with the media. anyone with half a brain cell will tell you this is not a case of cyberbullying, but a misuse of authority—and how there were multiple infringement of someone's rights.
"Nice try attempting to portray this as a Korea-only issue about which only Koreans have a right to comment, but you're full of it." you can react to it, but stop spreading bullshit lies and STOP PUTTING WORDS INTO OTHER PEOPLE'S MOUTHS especially when it's clear that you don't have a clue on the details of the case. even his point about the cyber wreckers is either the information was unverified OR there was lack of sufficient coverage (because the raw recordings were leaked without any additional information), which means this claim doesn't extend to KBS. he certainly isnt making some stupid ass claim about korea's toxic society you see in your typical k-pop "aNaLySiS" videos on youtube or from eurocentric journalists. IDC that it's your opinion, but it's not stated here, so stop pretending as if that's what he's claiming.
yes there was sensationalism and character assassination, but the issue is the information to assassinate lsk's character WASN'T unverified. that's my point. we can simplify the situation by lying to ourselves that the media only presented false information, but that isn't what happened. it presented IRRELEVANT and sensational information, which led for the blackmailers to succeed in their sinister ploy. if people are saying that k-media are presenting lies, then sure that lends itself to an easy solution: prevent new stations from presenting lies. the complexity of the situation is, it didn't do that. at worst, there were misleading (half-lies) and sensational headlines. however, in the context of a public trial, the releasing of the recording (essentially tainting the jury) is even more inappropriate.
i think there shouldn't even be a public trial in the first place unless it's in court, but if there is a public trial/investigation, the media should only present RELEVANT facts to the investigation
i don't think this show was about mental health or suicide; suicide was just a topic in the drama. in this situation, ML didn't have clinical depression but was struggling to fit into society based on his ideals. he, then, makes a very rash decision. the whole point of the drama was to help ML recognize he made a rash decision. it doesn't state anything general about mental issues or suicide. even when ML asks Death why he's getting punished, the language is always apropos of ML's own mistakes, not some sort of universal law or rule that he broke. just because someone commits suicide doesn't mean they suffered from depression or some mental health condition. life can sometimes throw curve balls and make you react negatively to it. some people react rashly to them and some people may get affected by them. but that doesn't mean they have a mental health condition (i.e. you remove the life event and their problems will go away).
okay? based on our little bit of interaction, i dont think your condemnation means much because you lack sound judgment.
"Korean law has always been trash it's nothing new, let's see if they make any changes"
this is probably the only sensible thing you've written.
no one is saying he doesn't deserve criticism except a vocal minority. the majority of people who can use their brain think that it was unfair for him to forcefully face a public investigation and for people to spread IRRELEVANT facts in tandem with actual charges against him, as it will create unfavorable biases. this isn't allowed in the court of law and shouldn't be allowed in the public court of opinion when the authorities and government are involved. if unregulated, this is how witchhunts begin.
😂😂 you don't even know korean, korean law, or a single thing about its politics but you're "extremely knowledgeable" about korean entertainment. are you delusional or arrogant? this isn't some kpop idol scandal. this is a bon-a-fide police investigation about a korean celebrity. I guess I, too, am a foreign policy expert for every country and for every scenario simply because I can read english articles about them. 😂💀😂
"considering that you only want to know things about it that soothe your hyper-sensitive notions of Korean perfection."
do you have reading problems or are you just plain stupid? i am literally criticizing Korea's systemic issues on this thread. i am just not buying into the whole, every korean is some lunatic fan and the lunatic fans is what killed lsk, story.
"I'm American. We have horrible problems here like mass shootings and the fact there are more guns in this country than people. We have a psycho right-wing that threatens to re-elect a criminal former president. We have Puritanical bigots trying to purge libraries of any book that doesn't fit their world view."
great, you're an american leftist. unfortunately, idc. maybe you have so much time on your hands that you're willing to share your whole life story, your political views, what is acceptable or not, in your all-so-holy perspective, but i'm not interested.
"And as I'm sure you know, Korea as a whole, celebs aside, has the highest suicide rate among OECD nations around the globe...by FAR. It is double the rate in the U.S. and we're pretty fucked up in many ways."
yes, but read leo sigh's article carefully and you'll see why the numbers are getting so fucked. however, even the article has many flaws based on how it interprets the data.
you blame kpop shame culture but the rates are basically the same as the U.S. for young people, although korean female rates are higher. it's during middle and late age where the rates become unprecedented. this is common knowledge for anyone who has looked into the numbers.
https://apps.who.int/gho/data/node.main.MHSUICIDE10YEARAGEGROUPS?lang=en
are we to believe there are a bunch of korean grandpas and grandmas shaming each other to death???
the world doesn't revolve around kpop or korean entertainment in korea despite its popularity, just as not every single american cares about what's happening in hollywood.
are we to blame slut shaming and women's oppression like the article suggests? then why do some of the most oppressive countries have lower suicide rate than some of the most gender-equal countries (for example, sweden vs afghanistan), why does north korea have lower rates than the south, and why are men constantly at least double or triple (but sometimes 10-50x) women's rates?
is it because of shaming in general? then, why are japan's rates lower than america's?
stop giving us bullshit one-size-fits-all answers then getting upset that people who are looking at the numbers are not buying into your ridiculous eurocentric solutions.
also, encouraging depressed people to suicide by making ridiculous virtue signaling statements like
"Give me a break. How many people stare into the black unknown of death and walk right into it despite their fear? Seems brave to me."
isn't contributing to the solution. it's braindead. spare me your crocodile tears.
edit: apparently you're me 😂😂😂😂
okay? then, go enlighten the koreans with your holier-than-thou attitude as a bunch of clueless international fans on your own thread. stop spamming people who have different views than you do like a little fucking troll. i think there's enough on our plates already with just the points that bong joon ho brought up and your arguments about psycho fan culture is juvenile. you're inclined to your opinion and i am to mine. go down to leo sigh's thread and comment there. why are you spamming your views on my thread? who here is resembling characteristics of a "psycho fan," you or me?
"So...are you Korean or just some condescending international fan defending the country from us racists and imperialists and shit?"
nothing that sophisticated or grand. i just think you're ignorant.
idk why you're writing this??? i wrote
"public authorities, who are supposed to inform, serve, and protect them" the part about "informing" should indicate I mean the media too?
how convenient that you edit the quotes whenever you want to. it doesn't just state
"Particular attention should be given to scrutinizing the circumstances and motives behind the exclusive coverage by KBS on November 24..."
it also clearly follows
"which included numerous details from the precise analysis results by the National Forensic Service"
stop relying on the megan journalist or whoever you guys keep posting. my point is, and what is clearly stated in this article, is that the recordings on KBS were verified by the NFS.
the comments about yellow journalism is about LSK's DRUG allegations, but law enforcement and the media released IRRELAVANT information about LSK's affair to assassinate his character. in an official court case, this is known as tainting the jury and is not allowed (at least to the extent of how it was disproportionately done against LSK). the problem is korea's trial took place outside of a court setting and in public limelight. despite lsk's desires for a private investigation, law enforcement refused and colluded with the media. anyone with half a brain cell will tell you this is not a case of cyberbullying, but a misuse of authority—and how there were multiple infringement of someone's rights.
"Nice try attempting to portray this as a Korea-only issue about which only Koreans have a right to comment, but you're full of it."
you can react to it, but stop spreading bullshit lies and STOP PUTTING WORDS INTO OTHER PEOPLE'S MOUTHS especially when it's clear that you don't have a clue on the details of the case. even his point about the cyber wreckers is either the information was unverified OR there was lack of sufficient coverage (because the raw recordings were leaked without any additional information), which means this claim doesn't extend to KBS. he certainly isnt making some stupid ass claim about korea's toxic society you see in your typical k-pop "aNaLySiS" videos on youtube or from eurocentric journalists. IDC that it's your opinion, but it's not stated here, so stop pretending as if that's what he's claiming.
i think there shouldn't even be a public trial in the first place unless it's in court, but if there is a public trial/investigation, the media should only present RELEVANT facts to the investigation
just because someone commits suicide doesn't mean they suffered from depression or some mental health condition. life can sometimes throw curve balls and make you react negatively to it. some people react rashly to them and some people may get affected by them. but that doesn't mean they have a mental health condition (i.e. you remove the life event and their problems will go away).