do you have reading comprehension problems or do you not understand what this means? "which included numerous details from the precise analysis results by the National Forensic Service"
this means that korea's national forensics ANALYZED the recordings. what kind of journalist claims something that was forensically analyzed by the government is "unverified?" she's literally the only person, who apparently understands korean and has been keeping up with the news (excluding conspiracy theorists), who thinks the recordings were unverified or fabricated.
" What do you gain by bullying Lee Sun Kyun even 2 weeks after his death? You get a thrill out of it, don't you? Have you not heard Be apart of the solution and not a part of the problem? Seriously, dude, you NEED to get outdoors, breathe, touch grass or dirt, and ground yourself." clearly you lack critical thinking. just because i am criticizing a journalist's lack of comprehensive investigation skills doesn't mean I am "bullying" lee sun kyun. i am pointing out the reality and facts to what happened and how the situation is a lot more complex than what was portrayed for international fans. his death was a tragedy, but the focus should be on law enforcement and the media that allowed an ORCHESTRATED BLACKMAIL to succeed, not fucking kOrEaN cULtuRe.
YOU'RE NOT PART OF THE SOLUTION by simplifying what happened and virtue signaling your half baked knowledge gathered solely by one incompetent journalist.
"WOW, classic example of a narcissist gaslighting, and projection. I know who you are. You're the same person as the other 2 accounts that started an agument under another news article" project much? youre literally in your own head
"Particular attention should be given to scrutinizing the circumstances and motives behind the exclusive coverage by KBS on November 24, which included numerous details from the precise analysis results by the National Forensic Service"
this confirms that the journalist doesn't know jack shit about what she's talking about or she didn't look at the news from the original source thoroughly. ill repeat it again: not a single person in korea thinks the recordings were faked, unverified, or false.
jesus christ, for the international fans constantly harping and blaming korean culture, read the fucking room. stop spreading this nonsense.
this isn't some k-pop slut-shaming bullshit. this was multiple authority figures overstepping and violating someone's due process of law. notice not a single fucking point in the article is about trolls, but legitimate concerns about how the law is being applied? it's one thing to get upset at people being rude and obnoxious over the internet, but it's a whole different ballgame for people to feel that the public authorities, who are supposed to inform, serve, and protect them, are unreliable and corrupt. please stop conflating the issues and infantilizing the concerns as if they're making some social commentary about some cultural stereotype. they're not. people voicing their concerns are trying to challenge real systemic problems.
@Dawn W yes, this is a south korean issue and the south koreans have spoken and addressed the issue. stay in your lane if you dont know what's going on.
oh shut up you ignorant ignoramus. "THAT'S the problem in a nutshell. People too quick to "trust" what they read without waiting for the evidence."
yeah, that's exactly what you're doing. you don't know shit. you don't know korean, yet you're trying to convince people that this ignorant journalist who has already been debunked is the best source. what a load of bullocks.
"THAT'S the problem in a nutshell. People too quick to "trust" what they read without waiting for the evidence." yeah, that's exactly what you're doing. you don't know shit. you don't know korean, yet you're trying to convince people that this ignorant journalist who has already been debunked is the best source. what a load of bullocks.
How do you write a whole ass article about a scandal and not even mention what the scandal is...
hackers hacked his phone and blackmailed him, but he refused. they leaked information of his texts in a chatroom with other actors, where they talked about rating and hooking up with girls. (edit: he was unmarried), and this was right after korea's metoo movement.
1. Which is why I suggested you can use Google translate or you can have a Korean friend directly translate the article for your behalf. I didn't say read the Dispatch article on Allkpop. Use whichever source you prefer.
2. Yes, and right now we're comparing two sources of our information. One is this purported 'native journalist' and the other is the whole of Korean society that has trusted the veracity of the leaked material.
3. This is true insofar as US celebs have more opportunities than SK celebs. If the SK entertainment was as large as the US, or Korean was a universal language, where SK celebs can migrate from large mainstream projects to smaller, foreign, or indie projects, then they would be in the exact same position as US celebs. Of course, due to the sheer size of Korea, or lack thereof, SK celebs tend to be stuck in Korea and their options are more limited. But hopefully, I don't need to spell it out further than this although I am fine doing so.
yes there have been cases where cyberbullying and rumors were the cause. but, that doesnt mean it's the cause for every celebrity death. that's known as a post hoc fallacy and many journalists fall victim to it. as a matter of fact, the article points to only 4 examples of suicide caused by shaming, yet associates 30 other cases to the same cause in its headline, which is trivially fallacious.
this isn't a "korean" problem. it's a universal problem and it's a matter of ethics. shame is a powerful tool of deterrence. you use shame when you shame netizens to stop shaming, and netizens used shame because they determined certain actions were worth deterring. some people have a low threshold. for example, maybe it's only okay to shame people like jeff epstein or maybe it's never okay to shame. some people may have a strict threshold. like maybe when people slut shame or the case of august ames. notice that neither people mentioned were "koreans?" yes, if you look at the list of famous suicides, youll find many cases where people ended their lives because they were shamed, and a lot more for those who felt ashamed for various reasons.
im not saying I know what that perfect threshold is nor am I trying to gauge it. my point is you guys pretending a complex issue like suicide can be boiled down to "stop the shaming" is foolish. lets at least get all the facts straight, and for whatever answer you can come up with, compare it with other examples and see whether you have acted consistently. so far, those saying extramarital affairs are private business have not been consistent for my aforementioned celebrities so my question is what's the difference? that one committed suicide and the others didnt?
I never said because allkpop said so, it's reliable. it's just the article that I referenced was reliable. you can read the latest Dispatch exclusive (use google translate if you prefer) and it repeats the same facts as that article and what I wrote. notice how in the Dispatch report, it's challenging every nook and cranny for how the media and police handled the situation but it doesnt challenge the authenticity of the recordings? the answer is because everyone knew they were and are reliable. Dispatch even implicitly accepts that the recordings and transcripts were reliable, but argues they were methodically leaked whenever the investigation ran into walls or problems. a fair criticism. lying that they were unreliable then either hiding or obscuring their content? you ignore a crucial portion for what caused the mistake behind law enforcement's ambitious search and the reason behind the public's negative perception of LSK.
the problem is we have two issues. one is regarding LSK's drug allegations which was highly suspect and deserving of many criticisms. the other is regarding his affair allegation, which was confirmed by the leaked material. therefore, when the topic is about LSK's PUBLIC PERCEPTION, a careful journalist and reporter will separate the issues instead of carelessly conflating them together. my point is that this "native" journalist and many of the international fans arent separating the issues which makes for simple solutions like, "stop incriminating people based on allegations and rumors" sound convincing to one side, but a completely useless suggestion for the other, and only exacerbates the confusion and misunderstandings. whenever a problem seems very simple but an entire country apparently cant address it or is completely oblivious to the solution that everyone in your crowd "knows," rather than leaping to the conclusion that the opposite side are complete imbeciles, you should question whether you have all the facts.
she is not a good source to get to the full complexity of the issue. in the video, she whitewashes the issue and does not provide a full coverage to accommodate her international audience. for example, she talks about how the material from gaseyon (garo sero institute) is unverified but this is not true at all. garo sero is an extremely controversial right wing group, so usually they do have weird (and wrong) takes. however, a broken clock is right twice a day and the leak they provided this time was verified by forensics, the cop, the media, and people involved after. there is not a single person in korea that thinks the leaked material was faked or unverified, though your mileage will vary whether they think it was appropriate for media to share the material. the leaked material turned lee sun kyun from an alleged drug addict to a confirmed adulterer. most of the SK press shared this finding with the audience. the SK netizens began to pity the wife and the kids and express disappointment in lee sun kyun. this among the many other factors that we know of (19 hour interrogation, public investigation despite requests for private investigation, lack of investigation against the perpetrators, lack of consideration, and the korean government's tendency to use celebrity as a public example) took Lee Sun Kyun's life. my point is that if you are going to blame the SK netizens for their judgment of Lee Sun Kyun, then what is your justification for how we treated all the celebrities I have mentioned above. if there is no justification then is it really blameworthy of the people to show disapproval of celebrities who had affairs if they are given that information?
"However, he was publicly exposed and shamed, and forced to kowtow and lower himself to apologise to the public, which indicates the power of SK netizen to judge and condemn."
when did SK netizens have so much power to force law enforcement to enforce the law in a certain way? netizens are netizens. public condemnation always occur for those caught in affairs. its almost inevitable. you are blaming netizens for absorbing information given to them by the press. why arent you condemning people for cancelling kristen stewart, tiger woods, adam levine or ned fulmer when their scandals broke out? the double standards is crazy.
that the situation was a lot more complex and methodical, and it's naive to blame cancel culture or internet bullying for this issue. essentially, it would dispel and bring into more clarity for comments like mrpan's blaming korean society at large.
And last but not least to so-called colleagues and so-called friends: Where have you been?Where ARE YOu NOw?you…
you dont know whether they supported him in private or not. what you are demanding is so out of touch with reality anywhere. who will jeopardize their career to support a friend amidst an embroiling scandal? who publicly supported tiger woods, kristen stewart, or even Ned from the try guys during their scandal? no one. so fk off with the virtue signaling. the only difference between the aforementioned celebrities and lee sun kyun is that lee sun kyun is trapped in a tiny country without much connection nor financial support. and he lives in a country with a strong shame culture. what took his life wasnt the drug allegations but the leaked recordings and the loss of his image as a family man.
allkpop just released an article of a breakdown for what happened with the 2 blackmailers. hopefully this will give international fans a better understanding of the situation.
allkpop just released an article of a breakdown for what happened with the 2 blackmailers. hopefully this will give international fans a better understanding of the situation.
"which included numerous details from the precise analysis results by the National Forensic Service"
this means that korea's national forensics ANALYZED the recordings. what kind of journalist claims something that was forensically analyzed by the government is "unverified?" she's literally the only person, who apparently understands korean and has been keeping up with the news (excluding conspiracy theorists), who thinks the recordings were unverified or fabricated.
" What do you gain by bullying Lee Sun Kyun even 2 weeks after his death? You get a thrill out of it, don't you? Have you not heard Be apart of the solution and not a part of the problem? Seriously, dude, you NEED to get outdoors, breathe, touch grass or dirt, and ground yourself."
clearly you lack critical thinking. just because i am criticizing a journalist's lack of comprehensive investigation skills doesn't mean I am "bullying" lee sun kyun. i am pointing out the reality and facts to what happened and how the situation is a lot more complex than what was portrayed for international fans. his death was a tragedy, but the focus should be on law enforcement and the media that allowed an ORCHESTRATED BLACKMAIL to succeed, not fucking kOrEaN cULtuRe.
YOU'RE NOT PART OF THE SOLUTION by simplifying what happened and virtue signaling your half baked knowledge gathered solely by one incompetent journalist.
"WOW, classic example of a narcissist gaslighting, and projection. I know who you are. You're the same person as the other 2 accounts that started an agument under another news article"
project much? youre literally in your own head
"Particular attention should be given to scrutinizing the circumstances and motives behind the exclusive coverage by KBS on November 24, which included numerous details from the precise analysis results by the National Forensic Service"
this confirms that the journalist doesn't know jack shit about what she's talking about or she didn't look at the news from the original source thoroughly. ill repeat it again: not a single person in korea thinks the recordings were faked, unverified, or false.
this isn't some k-pop slut-shaming bullshit. this was multiple authority figures overstepping and violating someone's due process of law. notice not a single fucking point in the article is about trolls, but legitimate concerns about how the law is being applied? it's one thing to get upset at people being rude and obnoxious over the internet, but it's a whole different ballgame for people to feel that the public authorities, who are supposed to inform, serve, and protect them, are unreliable and corrupt. please stop conflating the issues and infantilizing the concerns as if they're making some social commentary about some cultural stereotype. they're not. people voicing their concerns are trying to challenge real systemic problems.
@Dawn W
yes, this is a south korean issue and the south koreans have spoken and addressed the issue. stay in your lane if you dont know what's going on.
"THAT'S the problem in a nutshell. People too quick to "trust" what they read without waiting for the evidence."
yeah, that's exactly what you're doing. you don't know shit. you don't know korean, yet you're trying to convince people that this ignorant journalist who has already been debunked is the best source. what a load of bullocks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGBrSEBWZh0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxRb5WIq6gk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvt6sZPnjLQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJ3AM3ImPsQ
there's over 24 hours of content in korean media and you're sharing coverage of someone who literally just regurgitates her information from the new york times. educate and humble yourself.
"THAT'S the problem in a nutshell. People too quick to "trust" what they read without waiting for the evidence."
yeah, that's exactly what you're doing. you don't know shit. you don't know korean, yet you're trying to convince people that this ignorant journalist who has already been debunked is the best source. what a load of bullocks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxRb5WIq6gk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGBrSEBWZh0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvt6sZPnjLQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJ3AM3ImPsQ
there's over 24 hours of content in korean media and you're sharing coverage of someone who literally regurgitates her information from the new york times. educate and humble yourself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiF9Lw71vgo
2. Yes, and right now we're comparing two sources of our information. One is this purported 'native journalist' and the other is the whole of Korean society that has trusted the veracity of the leaked material.
3. This is true insofar as US celebs have more opportunities than SK celebs. If the SK entertainment was as large as the US, or Korean was a universal language, where SK celebs can migrate from large mainstream projects to smaller, foreign, or indie projects, then they would be in the exact same position as US celebs. Of course, due to the sheer size of Korea, or lack thereof, SK celebs tend to be stuck in Korea and their options are more limited. But hopefully, I don't need to spell it out further than this although I am fine doing so.
4. There you go :)
this isn't a "korean" problem. it's a universal problem and it's a matter of ethics. shame is a powerful tool of deterrence. you use shame when you shame netizens to stop shaming, and netizens used shame because they determined certain actions were worth deterring. some people have a low threshold. for example, maybe it's only okay to shame people like jeff epstein or maybe it's never okay to shame. some people may have a strict threshold. like maybe when people slut shame or the case of august ames. notice that neither people mentioned were "koreans?" yes, if you look at the list of famous suicides, youll find many cases where people ended their lives because they were shamed, and a lot more for those who felt ashamed for various reasons.
im not saying I know what that perfect threshold is nor am I trying to gauge it. my point is you guys pretending a complex issue like suicide can be boiled down to "stop the shaming" is foolish. lets at least get all the facts straight, and for whatever answer you can come up with, compare it with other examples and see whether you have acted consistently. so far, those saying extramarital affairs are private business have not been consistent for my aforementioned celebrities so my question is what's the difference? that one committed suicide and the others didnt?
the problem is we have two issues. one is regarding LSK's drug allegations which was highly suspect and deserving of many criticisms. the other is regarding his affair allegation, which was confirmed by the leaked material. therefore, when the topic is about LSK's PUBLIC PERCEPTION, a careful journalist and reporter will separate the issues instead of carelessly conflating them together. my point is that this "native" journalist and many of the international fans arent separating the issues which makes for simple solutions like, "stop incriminating people based on allegations and rumors" sound convincing to one side, but a completely useless suggestion for the other, and only exacerbates the confusion and misunderstandings. whenever a problem seems very simple but an entire country apparently cant address it or is completely oblivious to the solution that everyone in your crowd "knows," rather than leaping to the conclusion that the opposite side are complete imbeciles, you should question whether you have all the facts.
the leaked material turned lee sun kyun from an alleged drug addict to a confirmed adulterer. most of the SK press shared this finding with the audience. the SK netizens began to pity the wife and the kids and express disappointment in lee sun kyun. this among the many other factors that we know of (19 hour interrogation, public investigation despite requests for private investigation, lack of investigation against the perpetrators, lack of consideration, and the korean government's tendency to use celebrity as a public example) took Lee Sun Kyun's life.
my point is that if you are going to blame the SK netizens for their judgment of Lee Sun Kyun, then what is your justification for how we treated all the celebrities I have mentioned above. if there is no justification then is it really blameworthy of the people to show disapproval of celebrities who had affairs if they are given that information?
when did SK netizens have so much power to force law enforcement to enforce the law in a certain way? netizens are netizens.
public condemnation always occur for those caught in affairs. its almost inevitable. you are blaming netizens for absorbing information given to them by the press.
why arent you condemning people for cancelling kristen stewart, tiger woods, adam levine or ned fulmer when their scandals broke out? the double standards is crazy.