You and your policly correct friends don't understand humans mind, inteligent , humor and how the world really…
@whatever2 Let's deconstruct your argument and then create some counter arguments, from a couple of different angles:
First, let's be clear that what you are arguing FOR is what we call censure. We already have to put up with Thai censors, so I am not sure what we need is more censorship. Besides, at the very core of your argument is whether it is ethical to censure ART. (Keep in mind how it looks from the other side. BL would have no place if censors would have acted on their impulse of forbidding the transmission of homoerotic material)
Second, the evidence to which you point out is NOT conclusive. One study does not make an argument by itself.
Third, the dots you try to connect, that the representation of rape in BL equates the representation of violence against women in mass media is a logical fallacy. The violence/rape depicted here is a man against another man. Thus, you can't say that it has the same effects in viewers as violence against women. You may think I am being picky, but this is actually nontrivial because depictions of certain stereotypes serve to reinforce them. The media doesn't usually create these stereotypes but serves to reinforce them.
Fourth, (geeez, I should not count them but oh well), the biggest problem with consent and date rape is the objectification of women. Here, media seems to play a role but interestingly, even watching sports is associated with higher objectification of women. (see https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2018-22934-001). I suspect this has to do with more what people watch and their attitudes than the effects of what they watch on them (e.g. those who follow more gender conforming roles such as males who watch sports, tend to objectify women).
Lastly, yes I have a nail in the coffin of your theory, BL is targeted to women. Most BL audience is female. Every study I looked at show NO EFFECT of media depiction of dating violence on women's attitudes about it.
Now, I know you will say but what about the 5 straight guys who watch this show? I doubt they will be watching this thinking they can get on and bonk their friends so I will ignore those guys, sorry.
What about the few gay men, like me, who watch this? There is little data on this. My guess is that, just like with heterosexual man, a lot depends on whether the viewer can separate reality from fantasy (This is a Lippincott study but I don't have the link). I am pretty sure that with the very negative experiences we have with straight men, most of us instinctively know this is a fantasy.
So there you go. I think we can safely say that the folks who made this show won't be negatively impacting society with their depictions of violence and rape (if you could call them that because i think personally that what we have seen falls within the grey area. I mean, I kiss my husband all the time while he is sleeping, I don't think that makes me a creep. I also say things to him while he sleeps, like "You are so cute" or "I love you so much". So is that creepy?)
Whew, 3 episodes and we're 800+ comments deep! Usually the fun part about watching currently airing shows is dropping…
hahaha This show is going to be one of those that you either like it or you hate it and I predict it is going to generate a cult following within Thai BL.
So far this show has been way more thought-provoking than Theory of Love. ToL had a top notch supporting cast while this show has an OK supporting cast. The leads here are really delivering in terms of acting, the support cast is "just ok". The story has just enough shades of dark to make it interesting.
Oh at the risk of getting some hate, I like this story so far better than ToL, DBK and Thank God Its Friday (I didn't watch 2M2 or The Effect).
I also like the fast pace here more than I liked He's Coming To Me, which BTW so far wins it all in terms of being the best BL I watched this year. HCTM has just enough fluff to keep you happy and just enough dark stuff to keep you interested. And then there is the fact that you get to see Ohm Pawat kissing Singto.
Following your example, so when someone tickles you, you stay there laughing without moving?! Now that's an odd…
you don't want to know the answer :P
JK
Maybe the issue is I wouldn't say stop... :P
No, I get what you are saying but I think people need to get off their high horses and understand that BL is BL. It has its tropes, it has its defects. For example, what about the fact that Type is supposed to be dark and handsome? Why is it that Thai BL has a lack of diversity in terms of shades of dark and in terms of ethnic groups represented?
Or better yet, should we talk about the issue of gender representation within Thai BL? Why is it that in many Thai BLs women are minor characters, often the villainous, selfish and are usually catty and just in general, very unlikable characters?
You see, this issue with consent, even if it was an issue here which I don't think it is, is just one of many issues. This is a work of fiction, and is a work of art. Art is not required to be illuminating, nor is it supposed to educate us. If someone watches this and thinks it is OK to rape someone in their sleep or try something creepy like brush your roommate's hair or kiss his or her cheek while they sleep, and then they get in trouble, well that is their problem.
When Superman first came out, parents were concerned that kids would try to jump off roofs to try to fly. Ah, this is the same thing. If someone is stupid enough to believe that any of these is real, well then that's a bigger issue. So don't worry about people following in the footsteps of Tharn, it is not going to be a problem.
iv'e seen the last episode already 4 times..it's very good. the scene in the shower made perfectly- the combination…
agreed. I have some issues with the script but the acting here is very good. I really like Gulf a lot. Plus, he is such a looker. I could stare at him for hours :) haha
I agree with the previous comments. Please, watch the official linetv videos. They are professionally translated and LineTV really looks at their total views to make decisions about what they show, etc.
Maybe in the next episode they'll talk more about this issue now that we know that Type ask Tharn to have sex…
For me this is a huge deal, so yes I hope they address it before that scene.
I also hope they are pretty realistic with all of this. if so, then we should see a pretty messed up Type after he has sex with Tharn. He is going to be all over the place. He should feel both disgusted and happy, maybe even a bit terrified and have some flashbacks from his abuse. It should be dark.
I am skipping their part too, as I did in lbc..this author is usually good in creating interesting and original…
Oh we won't blame you @fanboy. The show is called TharnType, not TumTar (BTW What does Tum and Tar mean in Thai? Does anyone know? That song, Shake, goes "Tur Tum...", I can't remember what the translation is)
Yeah, that story is a mess. Thanks for letting me know about their background story b/c I was confused. So they are in love? hmm. I got that the brother was being over protective but I wasn't sure what was going on. I wonder if it will connect indirectly by showing how sexual abuse can take different forms... This story is dark after all...
Exactly!!!! I think most of the comments here are from people who have seen the episode just once, and I get it,…
I watch DBK for Tay. He is adorable. I don't know if he knows it, but he is like the cutest thing even when he is trying to be all hot with his glasses and all, he is just cute.
you need to understand asian tv drama ..esspecially bl, there is no developing, so if you think it as not so suiries…
I have watched plenty of Thai dramas, both BL and non-BL. I am relatively new to Thai BL shows but not to Thai movies (I watched Love of Siam way back then and LOVED IT).
My expectations are not the issue. Besides this show is not MCOT, it's GMM, so I think I can have some high expectations! :)
Thai BL can have excellent character development (e.g. SOTUS, He's Coming To Me) and it can have a plot with multiple layers and the use of symbolism (SOTUS, Theory of Love, Love Sick). So as a viewer I think I can expect this from TharnType and up to Episode 2 it delivered. Now in Episode 3 it really becomes a matter of how they move forward and I will say that I will view 1-3 this weekend to see I change my opinion about 3 on a second view. It may be, I am missing some hints.
I am enjoying the show, so don't get me wrong. Interestingly, I had 0 interest in this show, I only watched because ppl hyped it a bit, and well the comments here made it sound controversial and I love a controversial show. I had actually started watching Dark Blue Kiss, thinking that was going to be the BL I would fell in love with but I ended up liking this one better. Right now my interest in Dark Blue Kiss is waning. I am watching the next episode of DBK but at this point I am watching mostly for Tay, 'cause he is such a cutie that I enjoy seeing him on screen.
Harrassment and rape apparently that EVERYBODY are still watching, and you too I guess, or not? xD
Oh that drinking water scene... Oh.... We had been joking around in the Dark Blue Kiss board that Tay is cute and all but he can't pull off the "I am super hot" vibe but Mew can totally do it.
Oh my, were we right on the money. Mew did it by just drinking water while poor (cute and hot) Tay couldn't do it even after taking his shirt off and jumping into a swimming pool.
If Mew takes his shirt off and jump into a swimming pool, well, many hearts would be melted. :)
yo was i the only one that actually cried while watching the trailer??
I got very emotional and I still do when Ohm's character is about to punch the other guy... The way he screams that he doesn't want to be this way, is not like he is mad, but more like he is heart broken. Ohm's acting is one notch above. Everyone else would just act upset and angry but you can hear emotions and strong feelings. This makes me sad and reminds me of the coming out scene in He's coming to me, in which I BALLED my eyes out.
I don't know how emotionally prepared I am for this movie but when it comes out I am watching it even if I end up curled up on the floor, crying and needing my husband to come and hold me :)
The way I see it (and this is just my perspective on it) Type is definitely attracted to Tharn at this point.…
Also keep in mind that Type is attracted to Tharn from the beginning. I haven't read the book but I think that much is hinted throughout the last 3 episodes. For example, early on Type changed his mind about wanting to move out and he also had "dreams" (?) about Tharn that were homoerotic. In the bathroom, while JO he even says "Why can't I stop thinking about him?" or something to that effect.
There is very STRONG sexual tension b/w them leading to that bathroom scene. While it did felt a bit rushed, and while they failed to explain why Type didn't react negatively (considering he was raped in the past), the scene was superbly acted and directed. I give that scene two thumbs up, way up, in fact, in terms of the technical aspects (acting and directing). The only thing that fell flat for me was the script in that scene... I needed more explaining.
1 
First, let's be clear that what you are arguing FOR is what we call censure. We already have to put up with Thai censors, so I am not sure what we need is more censorship. Besides, at the very core of your argument is whether it is ethical to censure ART. (Keep in mind how it looks from the other side. BL would have no place if censors would have acted on their impulse of forbidding the transmission of homoerotic material)
Second, the evidence to which you point out is NOT conclusive. One study does not make an argument by itself.
Third, the dots you try to connect, that the representation of rape in BL equates the representation of violence against women in mass media is a logical fallacy. The violence/rape depicted here is a man against another man. Thus, you can't say that it has the same effects in viewers as violence against women. You may think I am being picky, but this is actually nontrivial because depictions of certain stereotypes serve to reinforce them. The media doesn't usually create these stereotypes but serves to reinforce them.
Fourth, (geeez, I should not count them but oh well), the biggest problem with consent and date rape is the objectification of women. Here, media seems to play a role but interestingly, even watching sports is associated with higher objectification of women. (see https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2018-22934-001). I suspect this has to do with more what people watch and their attitudes than the effects of what they watch on them (e.g. those who follow more gender conforming roles such as males who watch sports, tend to objectify women).
Fifth, most studies show a link between sexually explicit media (which I don't think this qualifies, but I am no social scientist) and attitudes about dating violence (see https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/1524838017717745?casa_token=E_o0Yk2wypYAAAAA%3Az3Dk9ElFLurjTeFErLb8BVMfKtV4iW1VJjVvpzsPxmara1zTdx9skSj9PIDVKPLl-44RW-jPdj8O4Hk). These studies however, and I can't reiterate this enough, are mostly looking at heteronormative and heterosexual partners.
Lastly, yes I have a nail in the coffin of your theory, BL is targeted to women. Most BL audience is female. Every study I looked at show NO EFFECT of media depiction of dating violence on women's attitudes about it.
Now, I know you will say but what about the 5 straight guys who watch this show? I doubt they will be watching this thinking they can get on and bonk their friends so I will ignore those guys, sorry.
What about the few gay men, like me, who watch this? There is little data on this. My guess is that, just like with heterosexual man, a lot depends on whether the viewer can separate reality from fantasy (This is a Lippincott study but I don't have the link). I am pretty sure that with the very negative experiences we have with straight men, most of us instinctively know this is a fantasy.
So there you go. I think we can safely say that the folks who made this show won't be negatively impacting society with their depictions of violence and rape (if you could call them that because i think personally that what we have seen falls within the grey area. I mean, I kiss my husband all the time while he is sleeping, I don't think that makes me a creep. I also say things to him while he sleeps, like "You are so cute" or "I love you so much". So is that creepy?)
So far this show has been way more thought-provoking than Theory of Love. ToL had a top notch supporting cast while this show has an OK supporting cast. The leads here are really delivering in terms of acting, the support cast is "just ok". The story has just enough shades of dark to make it interesting.
Oh at the risk of getting some hate, I like this story so far better than ToL, DBK and Thank God Its Friday (I didn't watch 2M2 or The Effect).
I also like the fast pace here more than I liked He's Coming To Me, which BTW so far wins it all in terms of being the best BL I watched this year. HCTM has just enough fluff to keep you happy and just enough dark stuff to keep you interested. And then there is the fact that you get to see Ohm Pawat kissing Singto.
JK
Maybe the issue is I wouldn't say stop... :P
No, I get what you are saying but I think people need to get off their high horses and understand that BL is BL. It has its tropes, it has its defects. For example, what about the fact that Type is supposed to be dark and handsome? Why is it that Thai BL has a lack of diversity in terms of shades of dark and in terms of ethnic groups represented?
Or better yet, should we talk about the issue of gender representation within Thai BL? Why is it that in many Thai BLs women are minor characters, often the villainous, selfish and are usually catty and just in general, very unlikable characters?
You see, this issue with consent, even if it was an issue here which I don't think it is, is just one of many issues. This is a work of fiction, and is a work of art. Art is not required to be illuminating, nor is it supposed to educate us. If someone watches this and thinks it is OK to rape someone in their sleep or try something creepy like brush your roommate's hair or kiss his or her cheek while they sleep, and then they get in trouble, well that is their problem.
When Superman first came out, parents were concerned that kids would try to jump off roofs to try to fly. Ah, this is the same thing. If someone is stupid enough to believe that any of these is real, well then that's a bigger issue. So don't worry about people following in the footsteps of Tharn, it is not going to be a problem.
Let's support Thai BL!
I also hope they are pretty realistic with all of this. if so, then we should see a pretty messed up Type after he has sex with Tharn. He is going to be all over the place. He should feel both disgusted and happy, maybe even a bit terrified and have some flashbacks from his abuse. It should be dark.
Yeah, that story is a mess. Thanks for letting me know about their background story b/c I was confused. So they are in love? hmm. I got that the brother was being over protective but I wasn't sure what was going on. I wonder if it will connect indirectly by showing how sexual abuse can take different forms... This story is dark after all...
Having said that, watch out Perth and God, 'cause Mew could become the next Thai BL Super Seme, the god of sexiness :P
That scene in the bathroom was so hot. Was it better than anything in LBC? 'cause I really felt the tension there...
I have no shame! :)
My expectations are not the issue. Besides this show is not MCOT, it's GMM, so I think I can have some high expectations! :)
Thai BL can have excellent character development (e.g. SOTUS, He's Coming To Me) and it can have a plot with multiple layers and the use of symbolism (SOTUS, Theory of Love, Love Sick). So as a viewer I think I can expect this from TharnType and up to Episode 2 it delivered. Now in Episode 3 it really becomes a matter of how they move forward and I will say that I will view 1-3 this weekend to see I change my opinion about 3 on a second view. It may be, I am missing some hints.
I am enjoying the show, so don't get me wrong. Interestingly, I had 0 interest in this show, I only watched because ppl hyped it a bit, and well the comments here made it sound controversial and I love a controversial show. I had actually started watching Dark Blue Kiss, thinking that was going to be the BL I would fell in love with but I ended up liking this one better. Right now my interest in Dark Blue Kiss is waning. I am watching the next episode of DBK but at this point I am watching mostly for Tay, 'cause he is such a cutie that I enjoy seeing him on screen.
Oh my, were we right on the money. Mew did it by just drinking water while poor (cute and hot) Tay couldn't do it even after taking his shirt off and jumping into a swimming pool.
If Mew takes his shirt off and jump into a swimming pool, well, many hearts would be melted. :)
One thing is for sure, I am not bored at all.
Dark Blue Kiss can be boring at times. This show is entertaining.
I don't know how emotionally prepared I am for this movie but when it comes out I am watching it even if I end up curled up on the floor, crying and needing my husband to come and hold me :)
There is very STRONG sexual tension b/w them leading to that bathroom scene. While it did felt a bit rushed, and while they failed to explain why Type didn't react negatively (considering he was raped in the past), the scene was superbly acted and directed. I give that scene two thumbs up, way up, in fact, in terms of the technical aspects (acting and directing). The only thing that fell flat for me was the script in that scene... I needed more explaining.